For those who think shields are not an offensive weapon and bash was rightfully nerfed

PVT_Parts

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

EDIT: For those saying shield bash shouldn't do as much damage as a regular attack. What are you basing this off of? Shield bash has a stamina cost, normal attack does not, so it SHOULD do more damage.

Bangstin

Real life rules don't apply to fantasy games.

Maverick827

If shields were never meant to do damage in this game, why is there a skill and enchants that increase bash damage?

Bangstin

Maverick827 wrote: »

If shields were never meant to do damage in this game, why is there a skill and enchants that increase bash damage?

Don't worry, you still can do damage with them.

SirAndy

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Where did you get your BA in History?

In real life ...

Ser Lobo

They did do damage. They weren't meant to do THAT much damage.

Developers built the game. Players too what developers gave them, and abused it. Developers *probably* saw so many players using bash offensively (because it did have good DPS output considering) and decided it went against what they intended it for.

Lot's of things don't add up to history. Most people think two-handed swords weigh 30 lbs and vikings had horned helms. Hate to say, that was historians who got it wrong, people with degree's. Come to find out, the real swords and helmets were nothing like the few display pieces preserved in some old noble's estate.

rawne1980b16_ESO

It got nerfed because it was doing far more damage than it should be.

If we based everything in game on reality we'd have hardly anything left.

Templars would have to go on crusades every so often and burn the occasional heretic followed by pillaging their way through innocent villages because they were complete gits.

Dragons are a myth ... bye bye Dragon Knights. You are now just knights that can barely move in silly armour.

The only thing Sorcs would be able to do is dodgy card tricks for tips in the local tavern because magic isn't real.

Werewolves would have to go.

Vampires can stay but they are just nuts people that think drinking blood is arousing .... seriously, google it, those people are mental.

Nightblades would be ninjas .... you'd never see them. Even the people playing them would never see their character .... it would be a nightmare.

People would have to walk everywhere, not everyone can ride a horse .... especially me. My uncle has a farm, tried riding one when I was a lad .... it didn't like that so threw me face down in it's horse like waste.

kruseb16_ESO

I have no problem with the shield bash - and no problem with the damage it made. I do have a problem with the shield bash abuse in pvp several players in cy used.

Not being your class i feel with you - not nerfing is the solution, killing the abuse is.

PVT_Parts

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

It got nerfed because it was doing far more damage than it should be.

If we based everything in game on reality we'd have hardly anything left.

Templars would have to go on crusades every so often and burn the occasional heretic followed by pillaging their way through innocent villages because they were complete gits.

Dragons are a myth ... bye bye Dragon Knights. You are now just knights that can barely move in silly armour.

The only thing Sorcs would be able to do is dodgy card tricks for tips in the local tavern because magic isn't real.

Werewolves would have to go.

Vampires can stay but they are just nuts people that think drinking blood is arousing .... seriously, google it, those people are mental.

Nightblades would be ninjas .... you'd never see them. Even the people playing them would never see their character .... it would be a nightmare.

People would have to walk everywhere, not everyone can ride a horse .... especially me. My uncle has a farm, tried riding one when I was a lad .... it didn't like that so threw me face down in it's horse like waste.

sounds fine to me.

Laura

are you pretending that people runing around boping around with a shield wasn't incredibly cheesy and silly then you are stupid, frankly.

every time I saw someone run into a dungeon with there shield out just POP POP POPING away I facepalmed and knew as soon as it was nerfed they would have NO idea how to play.

If you want to get stupid I seriously doubt anyone in the days of sword and board went around casting lightening just like I'm sure they didn't run into caves of trolls holding there shield in there hand popping with it over and over. if that was the case why not hold two?!?!?

seriously come on... you guys knew it was pure cheese and needed a nerf.

PVT_Parts

Laura wrote: »

are you pretending that people runing around boping around with a shield wasn't incredibly cheesy and silly then you are stupid, frankly.

every time I saw someone run into a dungeon with there shield out just POP POP POPING away I facepalmed and knew as soon as it was nerfed they would have NO idea how to play.

If you want to get stupid I seriously doubt anyone in the days of sword and board went around casting lightening just like I'm sure they didn't run into caves of trolls holding there shield in there hand popping with it over and over. if that was the case why not hold two?!?!?

seriously come on... you guys knew it was pure cheese and needed a nerf.

Dual shields could be fun. and as for not knowing how to play? Of course we don't. We leveled up our play style and it was made useless. So we don't know how to play any other way yet. Clearly I should be like you and know how to play every build and every setup. We don't know how to play because we now have to respec, relevel, reset, and relearn how to play.

Kaelis33

I love stabbing people with shields

zaria

Shield bash should be interrupt, kickback and disorient, might add knockdown and agro too if needed, should do damage but not cost effective as damage.

Would be cost effective if the kickback/ knockdown was part of the plan.
As a sorcerer I like crystal shards a lot as they do knockdow.

skarvika

First off, bash spamming is cheap and annoying. If you've gone up against someone that does this in pvp, you'd probably understand why so many people called for the nerf.
Second, what I think should happen next is that 1h+shield users should have their offensive skills buffed as they're fairly weak as is so that they can be competitive in combat without having to rely on cheap tactics to have survivability.

PVT_Parts

skarvika wrote: »

First off, bash spamming is cheap and annoying. If you've gone up against someone that does this in pvp, you'd probably understand why so many people called for the nerf.
Second, what I think should happen next is that 1h+shield users should have their offensive skills buffed as they're fairly weak as is so that they can be competitive in combat without having to rely on cheap tactics to have survivability.

I don't PVP, I was trying to PVE, but can't do that now because of PVPers. Couldn't they just nerf it's effect in PVP?

seanolan

skarvika wrote: »

First off, bash spamming is cheap and annoying. If you've gone up against someone that does this in pvp, you'd probably understand why so many people called for the nerf.

Wah, it was cheap and annoying. Like sneak attacks. Or bolt escape. Or healing faster than you can do damage. Or being snared in talon or another ability. Or any other ability you cannot immidiately counter. Wah. Cheap. Annoying. It prevents me from winning PvP. Nerf it. Wah.

Man, this kind of thing gets up my nose.

pknecron

PVT_Parts wrote: »

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

It's not that they CAN'T do damage, it was that they did FAR FAR TOO MUCH damage for the resources required to use it. All they did was bring it into line with the other damage dealing skills. GET OVER IT!!!

Your "I win" button has be taken away... Learn to play the game like everyone else who didn't exploit ONE SKILL has.

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO

Captain America works at Zenimax.

Shield toss ability coming next patch.

Vlaxitov

SirAndy wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Where did you get your BA in History?

In real life ...

Real life in a basement eating cheetos?

Laura

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

are you pretending that people runing around boping around with a shield wasn't incredibly cheesy and silly then you are stupid, frankly.

every time I saw someone run into a dungeon with there shield out just POP POP POPING away I facepalmed and knew as soon as it was nerfed they would have NO idea how to play.

If you want to get stupid I seriously doubt anyone in the days of sword and board went around casting lightening just like I'm sure they didn't run into caves of trolls holding there shield in there hand popping with it over and over. if that was the case why not hold two?!?!?

seriously come on... you guys knew it was pure cheese and needed a nerf.

Dual shields could be fun. and as for not knowing how to play? Of course we don't. We leveled up our play style and it was made useless. So we don't know how to play any other way yet. Clearly I should be like you and know how to play every build and every setup. We don't know how to play because we now have to respec, relevel, reset, and relearn how to play.

running around bopping with a shield is a play style now? I guess it is TECHNICALLY but.. come on...

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO

PVT_Parts wrote: »

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

Ahhh ok, so you learned in school, that a shield had a greater impact and was twice as harmful as a 6lb sharpened 2-hand-sword and could hit the enemy twice as often in the same time.
I wonder why anybody used a sword or maul or axe in medieval times as shields were superior to normal weapons in any kind and also could be used to defend yourself


And stupid Leonidas, why did he use a spear, if he could have wielded two shields

PVT_Parts

pknecron wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

It's not that they CAN'T do damage, it was that they did FAR FAR TOO MUCH damage for the resources required to use it. All they did was bring it into line with the other damage dealing skills. GET OVER IT!!!

Your "I win" button has be taken away... Learn to play the game like everyone else who didn't exploit ONE SKILL has.

Far too much damage? It did a bit more than a regular attack. Which it SHOULD do because bash costs stamina, regular attack costs nothing. It's not that I need to learn to play. It's that a now have to learn to play a complete different style. I did know how to play the game, now I don't because my build was made useless. You clearly never used a shield bash build. It wasn't just 1 ability, it was a chain of abilities built around the shield bash much like a sorcerer built around their "I win" pet button. For your average 1v1 trash mob, yes it was just shield bash till they died, but against more than 1 or a boss/elite it took a lot more abilities and skills than you give credit for. Saying it was a "I win" button is cheap, especially since I never PVPed with a shield so there was no "I win" at all.

PVT_Parts

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

Ahhh ok, so you learned in school, that a shield had a greater impact and was twice as harmful as a 6lb sharpened 2-hand-sword and could hit the enemy twice as often in the same time.
I wonder why anybody used a sword or maul or axe in medieval times as shields were superior to normal weapons in any kind and also could be used to defend yourself


And stupid Leonidas, why did he use a spear, if he could have wielded two shields

Your statements are impaired. First off, Spartans did more damage their their shield than their swords or spears. The spears were thrown at the enemy at the onset of the battle and were not used afterward. Secondly, a shield can and was used to hit much more regularly than the speed of a 2h. 2h were long and bulky and generally slow. People used a sword for the sharpened edge which was useful when getting in range or having the momentum for a shield bash was not possible. And why do you bring up maces, there are no maces in ESO, but maces do the same kind of blunt damage as a shield, just a more concentrated area. The reason they didn't use 2 shields is because shields are large and 2 would have gotten in the way of the bashing or smashing with the edge. Notice that soldiers who used maces, lances, javelins, spears, swords, axes, and flails generally all had one thing in common, a shield for bashing and killing as well as blocking and defense. But even in this game. How can you compare a regular attack to a shield bash and say that the shield bash shouldn't do more damage. Compare the costs of a regular attack and a bash. Bash costs stamina, regular attack costs nothing. So mathematically, Bash should do infinity times the damage of a normal attack because it costs stamina and normal doesn't, but that would just be silly and is not a real point I want to make, just that bash isn't free like a regular attack and also, anyone can use it so it was always a balanced skill.

tanthil

your arguement is void until they add as much defense to every other weapon line as shields have

This is not real life, its game balance

Its also cool how you base how much damage it does off of how much stamina it costs, forgetting that it is an interupt? ignorance is bliss.

On your logic they need to add damage to sorcerers teleport as it costs as mush as abilities that do damage?

Requiemslove

PVT_Parts wrote: »

pknecron wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

It's not that they CAN'T do damage, it was that they did FAR FAR TOO MUCH damage for the resources required to use it. All they did was bring it into line with the other damage dealing skills. GET OVER IT!!!

Your "I win" button has be taken away... Learn to play the game like everyone else who didn't exploit ONE SKILL has.

Far too much damage? It did a bit more than a regular attack. Which it SHOULD do because bash costs stamina, regular attack costs nothing. It's not that I need to learn to play. It's that a now have to learn to play a complete different style. I did know how to play the game, now I don't because my build was made useless. You clearly never used a shield bash build. It wasn't just 1 ability, it was a chain of abilities built around the shield bash much like a sorcerer built around their "I win" pet button. For your average 1v1 trash mob, yes it was just shield bash till they died, but against more than 1 or a boss/elite it took a lot more abilities and skills than you give credit for. Saying it was a "I win" button is cheap, especially since I never PVPed with a shield so there was no "I win" at all.

I agree with this. The skill is indeed a part of a chain. I am a bit concerned about this as I normally tend to use my shield to keep enemies grounded [and no I aint been to cyrodil yet] and will use mostly other skills once I have the upper hand and maybe use bash to get some space from multiple enemies if required. My system used to be shield charge skill, followed by the fighters guild skill, then melee attacks, maybe another melee skill, then back up, shield charge, finish with nova...why is that so dreadful exactly?

As for the cynicism about shields as weapons...you guys have any idea how much damage a 2 and a half to 3 foot steel shield can do if thrust into another's midriff? The answer is quite a lot. The shield is as much a weapon as it is a defensive tool, in the right hands with the right amount of knowledge, and no, its not like shield using knights used to go sliding into enemies with shield upraised etc, but being able to mow an opponent down with a controlled run, to get the advantage for a killing blow, yea, for sure they could do that

Alpha_Protocol

PVT_Parts wrote: »

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

EDIT: For those saying shield bash shouldn't do as much damage as a regular attack. What are you basing this off of? Shield bash has a stamina cost, normal attack does not, so it SHOULD do more damage.

It has a stamina cost because it is used to block damage and interrupt spells. You think all classes should get a damage shield or a spell interrupt that doesn't cost stamina or magicka? That's awfully generous of you.

SirAndy

Vlaxitov wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Where did you get your BA in History?

In real life ...

Real life in a basement eating cheetos?

Someone is clearly jealous ...

PVT_Parts

tanthil wrote: »

your arguement is void until they add as much defense to every other weapon line as shields have

This is not real life, its game balance

Its also cool how you base how much damage it does off of how much stamina it costs, forgetting that it is an interupt? ignorance is bliss.

On your logic they need to add damage to sorcerers teleport as it costs as mush as abilities that do damage?

teleport doesnt bash a hard object into the enemies face. Maybe teleporting should have a fire aoe around the caster. That would be acceptable and doesn't bolt escape morph into an ability that does damage?

Forgetting it is an interrupt? Why does that matter. Are you saying that bashing someone in the face shouldn't do any damage? Besides, this is not an interrupt, this is a "deadly bash", not a "disorienting push".

Not real life, its game balance? How was this not balanced? Every single character has the potential to use bash. If you want a balanced game, then every skill should do the same damage, cost the same amount, take the same amount of time to cast, and just have a different name and animation. Then it would be balanced. How is it balanced to have one class able to teleport away and do distance attacks and then have a class without distance attacks or a teleport? Class on class skill, lets say DK vs Sorcerer. Only using class skills. Sorcerer sees DK, uses a spell, DK sees sorcerer, runs up to use claws, sorcerer teleports, uses a distance attack, DK runs up to use claws, Sorcerer teleports. How is that balance? You can't have balance in a game with more than 1 class. It isn't possible unless you do as I mentioned above and make all the abilities the same just with different names and animations.

P.S. Yes there are a few distance attacks for DK, but they don't have as much range as a sorcerer's so still in the same boat, claws were just used as a go to DK move example.

tanthil

PVT_Parts wrote: »

tanthil wrote: »

your arguement is void until they add as much defense to every other weapon line as shields have

This is not real life, its game balance

Its also cool how you base how much damage it does off of how much stamina it costs, forgetting that it is an interupt? ignorance is bliss.

On your logic they need to add damage to sorcerers teleport as it costs as mush as abilities that do damage?

teleport doesnt bash a hard object into the enemies face. Maybe teleporting should have a fire aoe around the caster. That would be acceptable and doesn't bolt escape morph into an ability that does damage?

Forgetting it is an interrupt? Why does that matter. Are you saying that bashing someone in the face shouldn't do any damage? Besides, this is not an interrupt, this is a "deadly bash", not a "disorienting push".

Not real life, its game balance? How was this not balanced? Every single character has the potential to use bash. If you want a balanced game, then every skill should do the same damage, cost the same amount, take the same amount of time to cast, and just have a different name and animation. Then it would be balanced. How is it balanced to have one class able to teleport away and do distance attacks and then have a class without distance attacks or a teleport? Class on class skill, lets say DK vs Sorcerer. Only using class skills. Sorcerer sees DK, uses a spell, DK sees sorcerer, runs up to use claws, sorcerer teleports, uses a distance attack, DK runs up to use claws, Sorcerer teleports. How is that balance? You can't have balance in a game with more than 1 class. It isn't possible unless you do as I mentioned above and make all the abilities the same just with different names and animations.

P.S. Yes there are a few distance attacks for DK, but they don't have as much range as a sorcerer's so still in the same boat, claws were just used as a go to DK move example.

Did you miss the part were i said this is not real life its game balance? because your whole arguement is based on it being real life. 1 button to do a alot of damage and spam an interupt is balance? hello? i thought you were supposed to interupt thingswhen they are casting not just walk up to them and spam interupt on them in case they start casting and kill them with the interupt. Is this your first MMO?

You do realize dks have a counter to teleport that doesnt eat through their magika like sorcerers teleport does, you just keep saying random stuff trying to prove a point. in the end in a balanced skill fight dk vs. sorcerer the dk always either wins.. or the sorcerer runs.. but the sorcerer never wins.. so please explain to me how this doesnt completely void your sorc/dk fairness comparison????

PLEASE explain to me why after this class skill vs class skill dk/sorc fight when the sorcerer ports away and begins casting freely the dk runs up to him? why doesnt the dk fiery grip him back himself not only closing the gap but also interupting whatever spell he was casting and doing damage to him? Is it because you are the one playing the dk or is it because leaving a spell out of the situation that voids your arguement is better for your arguement? as a matter of fact in this scenario the dk apparently can only auto attack, He has no stuns no spell reflect no heals and no snares.... like a real dk does

Saerydoth

Listening to the people cry about the nerf is hillarious. It's exactly word for word what people always said on the WOW forums when <insert FOTM build here> was nerfed.

I swear, it's like listening to an army of Daleks. Except instead of saying EX-TER-MIN-ATE they are saying NERF. Now I've got a mental image of 1000 Daleks all saying Nerf, and it's cracking me up.

PVT_Parts

Alpha_Protocol wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

EDIT: For those saying shield bash shouldn't do as much damage as a regular attack. What are you basing this off of? Shield bash has a stamina cost, normal attack does not, so it SHOULD do more damage.

It has a stamina cost because it is used to block damage and interrupt spells. You think all classes should get a damage shield or a spell interrupt that doesn't cost stamina or magicka? That's awfully generous of you.

Bash is not used to block damage. Block is used to block damage. Bash is used to do damage while blocking, or at least it did until people like you thought that my PVE style was too cheap. It is supposed to interrupt spells, but then suddenly there is a passive that turns it into Deadly bash I guess the word deadly is lost on you.