For those who think shields are not an offensive weapon and bash was rightfully nerfed

PVT_Parts

Saerydoth wrote: »

Listening to the people cry about the nerf is hillarious. It's exactly word for word what people always said on the WOW forums when <insert FOTM build here> was nerfed.

I swear, it's like listening to an army of Daleks. Except instead of saying EX-TER-MIN-ATE they are saying NERF. Now I've got a mental image of 1000 Daleks all saying Nerf, and it's cracking me up.

Your 2 paragraphs confuse me. First you say it is funny to listen to people cry about the nerf. Then you talk about an army of Daleks crying nerf. Daleks are bad, so that means that nerf is bad, which means that it shouldn't be funny that the Daleks got their way.

Arsenic_Touch

Saerydoth wrote: »

Listening to the people cry about the nerf is hillarious. It's exactly word for word what people always said on the WOW forums when <insert FOTM build here> was nerfed.

I swear, it's like listening to an army of Daleks. Except instead of saying EX-TER-MIN-ATE they are saying NERF. Now I've got a mental image of 1000 Daleks all saying Nerf, and it's cracking me up.

Indeed. What's funny about the FOTM nerfs in WOW though was they were based on combinations being over powered where is this issue was from a passive doing more damage than it was supposed to, compounded with reduction cost jewelry that wasn't behaving properly, that was making it so you could almost indefinitely spam the bash.

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Bash is not used to block damage. Block is used to block damage. Bash is used to do damage while blocking, or at least it did until people like you thought that my PVE style was too cheap. It is supposed to interrupt spells, but then suddenly there is a passive that turns it into Deadly bash I guess the word deadly is lost on you.

Actually, bash is used to interrupt attacks. That was the point of it. It was never intended to do as much damage as it did when you can pretty much spam bash and out damage class skills/regular attacks, there's a problem. Once you get over your temper tantrum you'll understand it.

PVT_Parts

tanthil wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

tanthil wrote: »

your arguement is void until they add as much defense to every other weapon line as shields have

This is not real life, its game balance

Its also cool how you base how much damage it does off of how much stamina it costs, forgetting that it is an interupt? ignorance is bliss.

On your logic they need to add damage to sorcerers teleport as it costs as mush as abilities that do damage?

teleport doesnt bash a hard object into the enemies face. Maybe teleporting should have a fire aoe around the caster. That would be acceptable and doesn't bolt escape morph into an ability that does damage?

Forgetting it is an interrupt? Why does that matter. Are you saying that bashing someone in the face shouldn't do any damage? Besides, this is not an interrupt, this is a "deadly bash", not a "disorienting push".

Not real life, its game balance? How was this not balanced? Every single character has the potential to use bash. If you want a balanced game, then every skill should do the same damage, cost the same amount, take the same amount of time to cast, and just have a different name and animation. Then it would be balanced. How is it balanced to have one class able to teleport away and do distance attacks and then have a class without distance attacks or a teleport? Class on class skill, lets say DK vs Sorcerer. Only using class skills. Sorcerer sees DK, uses a spell, DK sees sorcerer, runs up to use claws, sorcerer teleports, uses a distance attack, DK runs up to use claws, Sorcerer teleports. How is that balance? You can't have balance in a game with more than 1 class. It isn't possible unless you do as I mentioned above and make all the abilities the same just with different names and animations.

P.S. Yes there are a few distance attacks for DK, but they don't have as much range as a sorcerer's so still in the same boat, claws were just used as a go to DK move example.

Did you miss the part were i said this is not real life its game balance? because your whole arguement is based on it being real life. 1 button to do a alot of damage and spam an interupt is balance? hello? i thought you were supposed to interupt thingswhen they are casting not just walk up to them and spam interupt on them in case they start casting and kill them with the interupt. Is this your first MMO?

You do realize dks have a counter to teleport that doesnt eat through their magika like sorcerers teleport does, you just keep saying random stuff trying to prove a point. in the end in a balanced skill fight dk vs. sorcerer the dk always either wins.. or the sorcerer runs.. but the sorcerer never wins.. so please explain to me how this doesnt completely void your sorc/dk fairness comparison????

What skill would that be? A skill that the sorcerer must be stupid enough to get into range of? hmmm teleport counter. Can't think of one, you thinking of chains? Not enough range. Then again, I don't PVP, I PVE so I never had a problem being OP or being bitched at by *** PVPers who were upset about losing instead of just grabbing a shield themselves and having a bash fight like the Vikings used to do with their shield walls.

PVT_Parts

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Saerydoth wrote: »

Listening to the people cry about the nerf is hillarious. It's exactly word for word what people always said on the WOW forums when <insert FOTM build here> was nerfed.

I swear, it's like listening to an army of Daleks. Except instead of saying EX-TER-MIN-ATE they are saying NERF. Now I've got a mental image of 1000 Daleks all saying Nerf, and it's cracking me up.

Indeed. What's funny about the FOTM nerfs in WOW though was they were based on combinations being over powered where is this issue was from a passive doing more damage than it was supposed to, compounded with reduction cost jewelry that wasn't behaving properly, that was making it so you could almost indefinitely spam the bash.

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Bash is not used to block damage. Block is used to block damage. Bash is used to do damage while blocking, or at least it did until people like you thought that my PVE style was too cheap. It is supposed to interrupt spells, but then suddenly there is a passive that turns it into Deadly bash I guess the word deadly is lost on you.

Actually, bash is used to interrupt attacks. That was the point of it. It was never intended to do as much damage as it did when you can pretty much spam bash and out damage class skills/regular attacks, there's a problem. Once you get over your temper tantrum you'll understand it.

You miss the passive being called deadly bash. Also, you are misquoting the issue with enchantments. The problem with enchantments was that they were adding too much damage with the bashing enchantment, not the shielding enchantments making it too cheap. The problem was that the damage was being stacked and multiplied to give more than the enchantments were supposed to. Also, the passive never added more than stated. It stated a 100% increase in damage and that's what it game. The main problem was the time when the enchantments were calculated. With the bashing enchantments, they added the enchantment before the 100% increase passive so the damage from the enchantments was also doubled. There was no issue with the cost reduction glyphs.

Saerydoth

The whole "real life" argument is pointless and dumb. Yes, in real life, if I take a shield and smack someone with it, it's going to hurt. But I can't sprout wings, fly through the air, and smash people in real life, nor can I wave my fingers and throw fireballs at people, nor can I wave my fingers and heal people.

pknecron

Requiemslove wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

pknecron wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

It's not that they CAN'T do damage, it was that they did FAR FAR TOO MUCH damage for the resources required to use it. All they did was bring it into line with the other damage dealing skills. GET OVER IT!!!

Your "I win" button has be taken away... Learn to play the game like everyone else who didn't exploit ONE SKILL has.

Far too much damage? It did a bit more than a regular attack. Which it SHOULD do because bash costs stamina, regular attack costs nothing. It's not that I need to learn to play. It's that a now have to learn to play a complete different style. I did know how to play the game, now I don't because my build was made useless. You clearly never used a shield bash build. It wasn't just 1 ability, it was a chain of abilities built around the shield bash much like a sorcerer built around their "I win" pet button. For your average 1v1 trash mob, yes it was just shield bash till they died, but against more than 1 or a boss/elite it took a lot more abilities and skills than you give credit for. Saying it was a "I win" button is cheap, especially since I never PVPed with a shield so there was no "I win" at all.

I agree with this. The skill is indeed a part of a chain. SNIP

Yup, it WAS part of a chain; here, I will write it down for those who don't know what the chain was: SHIELD BASH, SHIELD BASH, SHIELD BASH, SHIELD BASH, SHIELD BASH... do I need to go on? Damage to stamina spent ratio was better than any other skill in the game especially when you had the passives and the enchants to go with it.

tanthil

PVT_Parts wrote: »

tanthil wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

tanthil wrote: »

your arguement is void until they add as much defense to every other weapon line as shields have

This is not real life, its game balance

Its also cool how you base how much damage it does off of how much stamina it costs, forgetting that it is an interupt? ignorance is bliss.

On your logic they need to add damage to sorcerers teleport as it costs as mush as abilities that do damage?

teleport doesnt bash a hard object into the enemies face. Maybe teleporting should have a fire aoe around the caster. That would be acceptable and doesn't bolt escape morph into an ability that does damage?

Forgetting it is an interrupt? Why does that matter. Are you saying that bashing someone in the face shouldn't do any damage? Besides, this is not an interrupt, this is a "deadly bash", not a "disorienting push".

Not real life, its game balance? How was this not balanced? Every single character has the potential to use bash. If you want a balanced game, then every skill should do the same damage, cost the same amount, take the same amount of time to cast, and just have a different name and animation. Then it would be balanced. How is it balanced to have one class able to teleport away and do distance attacks and then have a class without distance attacks or a teleport? Class on class skill, lets say DK vs Sorcerer. Only using class skills. Sorcerer sees DK, uses a spell, DK sees sorcerer, runs up to use claws, sorcerer teleports, uses a distance attack, DK runs up to use claws, Sorcerer teleports. How is that balance? You can't have balance in a game with more than 1 class. It isn't possible unless you do as I mentioned above and make all the abilities the same just with different names and animations.

P.S. Yes there are a few distance attacks for DK, but they don't have as much range as a sorcerer's so still in the same boat, claws were just used as a go to DK move example.

Did you miss the part were i said this is not real life its game balance? because your whole arguement is based on it being real life. 1 button to do a alot of damage and spam an interupt is balance? hello? i thought you were supposed to interupt thingswhen they are casting not just walk up to them and spam interupt on them in case they start casting and kill them with the interupt. Is this your first MMO?

You do realize dks have a counter to teleport that doesnt eat through their magika like sorcerers teleport does, you just keep saying random stuff trying to prove a point. in the end in a balanced skill fight dk vs. sorcerer the dk always either wins.. or the sorcerer runs.. but the sorcerer never wins.. so please explain to me how this doesnt completely void your sorc/dk fairness comparison????

What skill would that be? A skill that the sorcerer must be stupid enough to get into range of? hmmm teleport counter. Can't think of one, you thinking of chains? Not enough range. Then again, I don't PVP, I PVE so I never had a problem being OP or being bitched at by *** PVPers who were upset about losing instead of just grabbing a shield themselves and having a bash fight like the Vikings used to do with their shield walls.

Seriously man???? fiery grip? you pull the sorc back to you??? LOL
or wait if you dont feel like pulling him back you could always just reflect ALL HIS SPELLS BACK AT HIM? LOL

i hate when people say this but this truely is L2P issue on your part

the sorcerers ONLY option in this fight is to RUN AWAY or DIE

Requiemslove

Come on people, cut this out, if you cant agree to disagree, agree to leave each other be, at least. This is all just par for the course as its evident to me Zenimax will [if they are not already] go down the same road of trying to match things up so all are happy all the time, when the reality is one group/class/whatever will complain about a perceived disadvantage in pvp which, in turn will make the devs nerf stuff across the board and the process of ezy mode begins all over again. Its starting already, see. Zenimax needs to grow a pair and just let people whine, or just change things while people are in pvp, and leave the larger non pvp game alone. Seriously, I would prefer the latter, but I'm also fine for them the devs, to just tell us players to stuff it, and do what THEY feel is right, in regards to class skills.

Artemiisia

they are suppose to do damage, yes

but not at the point they become stronger then a sword, so of course a nerf was needed

Arsenic_Touch

PVT_Parts wrote: »

You miss the passive being called deadly bash. Also, you are misquoting the issue with enchantments. The problem with enchantments was that they were adding too much damage with the bashing enchantment, not the shielding enchantments making it too cheap. The problem was that the damage was being stacked and multiplied to give more than the enchantments were supposed to. Also, the passive never added more than stated. It stated a 100% increase in damage and that's what it game. The main problem was the time when the enchantments were calculated. With the bashing enchantments, they added the enchantment before the 100% increase passive so the damage from the enchantments was also doubled. There was no issue with the cost reduction glyphs.

Thanks for the correction, still doesn't change my point. The name deadly bash does not mean jack in regards to this. You can try to twist it all you want but it's irrelevant. The purpose of bash was to interrupt. Deadly bash was supposed to add a little damage and reduce the cost a little to make it easier on tanks. Not make it so a tank can out dps other dps.

PVT_Parts

tanthil wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

tanthil wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

tanthil wrote: »

your arguement is void until they add as much defense to every other weapon line as shields have

This is not real life, its game balance

Its also cool how you base how much damage it does off of how much stamina it costs, forgetting that it is an interupt? ignorance is bliss.

On your logic they need to add damage to sorcerers teleport as it costs as mush as abilities that do damage?

teleport doesnt bash a hard object into the enemies face. Maybe teleporting should have a fire aoe around the caster. That would be acceptable and doesn't bolt escape morph into an ability that does damage?

Forgetting it is an interrupt? Why does that matter. Are you saying that bashing someone in the face shouldn't do any damage? Besides, this is not an interrupt, this is a "deadly bash", not a "disorienting push".

Not real life, its game balance? How was this not balanced? Every single character has the potential to use bash. If you want a balanced game, then every skill should do the same damage, cost the same amount, take the same amount of time to cast, and just have a different name and animation. Then it would be balanced. How is it balanced to have one class able to teleport away and do distance attacks and then have a class without distance attacks or a teleport? Class on class skill, lets say DK vs Sorcerer. Only using class skills. Sorcerer sees DK, uses a spell, DK sees sorcerer, runs up to use claws, sorcerer teleports, uses a distance attack, DK runs up to use claws, Sorcerer teleports. How is that balance? You can't have balance in a game with more than 1 class. It isn't possible unless you do as I mentioned above and make all the abilities the same just with different names and animations.

P.S. Yes there are a few distance attacks for DK, but they don't have as much range as a sorcerer's so still in the same boat, claws were just used as a go to DK move example.

Did you miss the part were i said this is not real life its game balance? because your whole arguement is based on it being real life. 1 button to do a alot of damage and spam an interupt is balance? hello? i thought you were supposed to interupt thingswhen they are casting not just walk up to them and spam interupt on them in case they start casting and kill them with the interupt. Is this your first MMO?

You do realize dks have a counter to teleport that doesnt eat through their magika like sorcerers teleport does, you just keep saying random stuff trying to prove a point. in the end in a balanced skill fight dk vs. sorcerer the dk always either wins.. or the sorcerer runs.. but the sorcerer never wins.. so please explain to me how this doesnt completely void your sorc/dk fairness comparison????

What skill would that be? A skill that the sorcerer must be stupid enough to get into range of? hmmm teleport counter. Can't think of one, you thinking of chains? Not enough range. Then again, I don't PVP, I PVE so I never had a problem being OP or being bitched at by *** PVPers who were upset about losing instead of just grabbing a shield themselves and having a bash fight like the Vikings used to do with their shield walls.

Seriously man???? fiery grip? you pull the sorc back to you??? LOL
or wait if you dont feel like pulling him back you could always just reflect ALL HIS SPELLS BACK AT HIM? LOL

i hate when people say this but this truely is L2P issue on your part

the sorcerers ONLY option in this fight is to RUN AWAY or DIE

No, this is not a L2P issue. This is a learn to PVP issue. I don't PVP. I don't fight against sorcerers, but I know you can stay out of the range of fiery grip because it doesn't have the range of a sorcerer's spell. Maybe you need to L2P to stay at the right distance from a DK to render them useless.

PVT_Parts

pknecron wrote: »

Requiemslove wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

pknecron wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

It's not that they CAN'T do damage, it was that they did FAR FAR TOO MUCH damage for the resources required to use it. All they did was bring it into line with the other damage dealing skills. GET OVER IT!!!

Your "I win" button has be taken away... Learn to play the game like everyone else who didn't exploit ONE SKILL has.

Far too much damage? It did a bit more than a regular attack. Which it SHOULD do because bash costs stamina, regular attack costs nothing. It's not that I need to learn to play. It's that a now have to learn to play a complete different style. I did know how to play the game, now I don't because my build was made useless. You clearly never used a shield bash build. It wasn't just 1 ability, it was a chain of abilities built around the shield bash much like a sorcerer built around their "I win" pet button. For your average 1v1 trash mob, yes it was just shield bash till they died, but against more than 1 or a boss/elite it took a lot more abilities and skills than you give credit for. Saying it was a "I win" button is cheap, especially since I never PVPed with a shield so there was no "I win" at all.

I agree with this. The skill is indeed a part of a chain. SNIP

Yup, it WAS part of a chain; here, I will write it down for those who don't know what the chain was: SHIELD BASH, SHIELD BASH, SHIELD BASH, SHIELD BASH, SHIELD BASH... do I need to go on? Damage to stamina spent ratio was better than any other skill in the game especially when you had the passives and the enchants to go with it.

Yes, you are correct about it being the best stamina spent to damage ratio. But it still was only 230 damage. Maybe a higher ratio, but not a higher dps. Put it in perspective, it took about 15-20 bashes to kill something. A DPS using other abilities that cost more would cut that fight time down drastically.

tanthil

PVT_Parts wrote: »

tanthil wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

tanthil wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

tanthil wrote: »

your arguement is void until they add as much defense to every other weapon line as shields have

This is not real life, its game balance

Its also cool how you base how much damage it does off of how much stamina it costs, forgetting that it is an interupt? ignorance is bliss.

On your logic they need to add damage to sorcerers teleport as it costs as mush as abilities that do damage?

teleport doesnt bash a hard object into the enemies face. Maybe teleporting should have a fire aoe around the caster. That would be acceptable and doesn't bolt escape morph into an ability that does damage?

Forgetting it is an interrupt? Why does that matter. Are you saying that bashing someone in the face shouldn't do any damage? Besides, this is not an interrupt, this is a "deadly bash", not a "disorienting push".

Not real life, its game balance? How was this not balanced? Every single character has the potential to use bash. If you want a balanced game, then every skill should do the same damage, cost the same amount, take the same amount of time to cast, and just have a different name and animation. Then it would be balanced. How is it balanced to have one class able to teleport away and do distance attacks and then have a class without distance attacks or a teleport? Class on class skill, lets say DK vs Sorcerer. Only using class skills. Sorcerer sees DK, uses a spell, DK sees sorcerer, runs up to use claws, sorcerer teleports, uses a distance attack, DK runs up to use claws, Sorcerer teleports. How is that balance? You can't have balance in a game with more than 1 class. It isn't possible unless you do as I mentioned above and make all the abilities the same just with different names and animations.

P.S. Yes there are a few distance attacks for DK, but they don't have as much range as a sorcerer's so still in the same boat, claws were just used as a go to DK move example.

Did you miss the part were i said this is not real life its game balance? because your whole arguement is based on it being real life. 1 button to do a alot of damage and spam an interupt is balance? hello? i thought you were supposed to interupt thingswhen they are casting not just walk up to them and spam interupt on them in case they start casting and kill them with the interupt. Is this your first MMO?

You do realize dks have a counter to teleport that doesnt eat through their magika like sorcerers teleport does, you just keep saying random stuff trying to prove a point. in the end in a balanced skill fight dk vs. sorcerer the dk always either wins.. or the sorcerer runs.. but the sorcerer never wins.. so please explain to me how this doesnt completely void your sorc/dk fairness comparison????

What skill would that be? A skill that the sorcerer must be stupid enough to get into range of? hmmm teleport counter. Can't think of one, you thinking of chains? Not enough range. Then again, I don't PVP, I PVE so I never had a problem being OP or being bitched at by *** PVPers who were upset about losing instead of just grabbing a shield themselves and having a bash fight like the Vikings used to do with their shield walls.

Seriously man???? fiery grip? you pull the sorc back to you??? LOL
or wait if you dont feel like pulling him back you could always just reflect ALL HIS SPELLS BACK AT HIM? LOL

i hate when people say this but this truely is L2P issue on your part

the sorcerers ONLY option in this fight is to RUN AWAY or DIE

No, this is not a L2P issue. This is a learn to PVP issue. I don't PVP. I don't fight against sorcerers, but I know you can stay out of the range of fiery grip because it doesn't have the range of a sorcerer's spell. Maybe you need to L2P to stay at the right distance from a DK to render them useless.

So you are going to base your whole arguement previously on a pvp situation, then tell me you dont pvp at all, then tell me how to pvp. Tell us about how dk vs sorc fights end then tell us you dont fight sorcs on your dk, never have?

you are a tool.

Birfreben_Kinghelred

seanolan wrote: »

skarvika wrote: »

First off, bash spamming is cheap and annoying. If you've gone up against someone that does this in pvp, you'd probably understand why so many people called for the nerf.

Wah, it was cheap and annoying. Like sneak attacks. Or bolt escape. Or healing faster than you can do damage. Or being snared in talon or another ability. Or any other ability you cannot immidiately counter. Wah. Cheap. Annoying. It prevents me from winning PvP. Nerf it. Wah.

Man, this kind of thing gets up my nose.

Its really funny, every time I'd bring up the issue of shield bash spam being OP in cyrodill zone, every1 would always say the same thing. "Shield bash is a crutch, soon it'll be Nerfed and bad players will no longer be able to abuse it..blah blah blah." for some reason I didn't believe them, and yet, in the past day there's been over 20 threads of people threatening to unsub because their win button got taken away. LOL, you say we're the ones crying? I didn't see any threads of people threatening to unsub because shield bash was too op... i didnt see anyone crying for zeni to give them a free respec so they can learn how to deal with cheese shield bashers.

Its not that shield bash prevents me from winning, its that shield bash prevented PVP from being a game. It reduced small scale encounters to 1 ability being spammed. No choice, timing, reaction, or even thinking involved. Just click enemy, shield charge, deadly bash, deadly bash, deadly bash, deadly bash, oh you cc broke? well why don't I just keep spamming deadly bash... oh you went invis? well I guess it was great that I continued spamming deadly bash... really no reason not to...

Alpha_Protocol

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Alpha_Protocol wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

EDIT: For those saying shield bash shouldn't do as much damage as a regular attack. What are you basing this off of? Shield bash has a stamina cost, normal attack does not, so it SHOULD do more damage.

It has a stamina cost because it is used to block damage and interrupt spells. You think all classes should get a damage shield or a spell interrupt that doesn't cost stamina or magicka? That's awfully generous of you.

Bash is not used to block damage. Block is used to block damage. Bash is used to do damage while blocking, or at least it did until people like you thought that my PVE style was too cheap. It is supposed to interrupt spells, but then suddenly there is a passive that turns it into Deadly bash I guess the word deadly is lost on you.

Shield bash DOES do damage. Deadly Bash increases the damage done by shield bash by 40%. Are you implying shield bash does more damage without Deadly Bash?

If you shield bash as intended to interrupt spells, the damage done for a successful interrupt was increased substantially more than before 1.1.2.

Feel free to update us on your progress in understanding how this all works. We're all keenly interested.

Requiemslove

pknecron wrote: »

Requiemslove wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

pknecron wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

It's not that they CAN'T do damage, it was that they did FAR FAR TOO MUCH damage for the resources required to use it. All they did was bring it into line with the other damage dealing skills. GET OVER IT!!!

Your "I win" button has be taken away... Learn to play the game like everyone else who didn't exploit ONE SKILL has.

Far too much damage? It did a bit more than a regular attack. Which it SHOULD do because bash costs stamina, regular attack costs nothing. It's not that I need to learn to play. It's that a now have to learn to play a complete different style. I did know how to play the game, now I don't because my build was made useless. You clearly never used a shield bash build. It wasn't just 1 ability, it was a chain of abilities built around the shield bash much like a sorcerer built around their "I win" pet button. For your average 1v1 trash mob, yes it was just shield bash till they died, but against more than 1 or a boss/elite it took a lot more abilities and skills than you give credit for. Saying it was a "I win" button is cheap, especially since I never PVPed with a shield so there was no "I win" at all.

I agree with this. The skill is indeed a part of a chain. SNIP

Yup, it WAS part of a chain; here, I will write it down for those who don't know what the chain was: SHIELD BASH, SHIELD BASH, SHIELD BASH, SHIELD BASH, SHIELD BASH... do I need to go on? Damage to stamina spent ratio was better than any other skill in the game especially when you had the passives and the enchants to go with it.

Hey, while I could not care any less how I kill an enemy npc or creature, you realise you CAN dodge a charged shield attack? Learn to dodge if you got grief with that in pvp or whatever. Anyway that was not my chain, my chain was that move as an opener, fighters guild skill, sword cleave [or whatever that skill is called] followed by melee attacks, then if enemy is still alive, back up a bit, shield charge skill then use Templar "dark nova" as a [hopeful] finisher. Though that's more for boss types, most trash mobs would fall to shield charge, silver blades [fighters guild skill or whatever its called] and nova, followed by melee attacks

Drazticulous

Please wait while I make a thread on how to play if you shield bashed your way to 50.

ShintaiDK

Alpha_Protocol wrote: »

If you shield bash as intended to interrupt spells, the damage done for a successful interrupt was increased substantially more than before 1.1.2.

It certainly doesnt. Also its painfully rare.

Loco_Mofo

It got fixed for the sake of balance, not for the sake of reality.

Silverglass66

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Your statements are impaired. First off, Spartans did more damage their their shield than their swords or spears. The spears were thrown at the enemy at the onset of the battle and were not used afterward.

From someone who opened with questioning where people got their BA in History this is laughable.

No, the Spartans did not do more damage with their shields and they did not, as a unit, throw their spears. The Spartans fought as Hoplites, a close formation unit using Spears as their primary weapon during the battle.

You might (and I am being generous here) be confusing Hoplites with Peltasts who were javelin armed light infantry who fulfilled more of a skirmishing role (the Spartan army did use Peltasts in battle but they were troops, often mercenaries, from other areas of Greece and not themselves Spartans). However I suspect that you are confusing Spartans with Roman Legionaries who used the Pilum (which was thrown at the onset of the fight) but even they relied on the sword for killing the enemy.

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Secondly, a shield can and was used to hit much more regularly than the speed of a 2h. 2h were long and bulky and generally slow. People used a sword for the sharpened edge which was useful when getting in range or having the momentum for a shield bash was not possible.

Wrong again, 2H weapons were not as slow as people think and armies of the whole period never relied on a shield bash as a primary means of killing the enemy.

PVT_Parts wrote: »

And why do you bring up maces, there are no maces in ESO, but maces do the same kind of blunt damage as a shield, just a more concentrated area.

Wrong again bub, there are maces in ESO. However you have hit on the reason why maces won out over shields in an offensive role, the energy of the blow is concentrated in a small area rather than a large one which means is has a greater effect, especially against armoured targets.

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Bash costs stamina, regular attack costs nothing.

So what? That is a game balance mechanic not a simulation of real life, if that were the case then every physical attack should cost stamina. Shield bash costs stamina to stop unending interrupts.

Drazticulous

Here's how to play with 1h + shields in ESO

First, Block
Second, attack with skill/weapon Third block again,
Fourth, attack and then block again,

repeat process....

Notice in this short video they use "shield bash" to disorient opponent while they are attacking.

Shields in action

I do not see bash spamming..... Please tell me where in history someone spammed their shield onto an enemy to kill them?

I know, I know, this is a game not real life...... well if it's a game, you should be able to adapt better than in real life because obviously real life has you stuck here complaining.

And before you hate on me for this post..... I'm just waiting 'til I can log in passed the timeout phase of the patch, and laughing at you crying about one ability in the entire game.

tanthil

Silverglass66 wrote: »

So what? That is a game balance mechanic not a simulation of real life, if that were the case then every physical attack should cost stamina. Shield bash costs stamina to stop unending interrupts.

Do you feel as if it is? lets remove magic and make all weapons kill with one hit, then it will be

Salsadoom

There is a stamina cost for several reasons:

1) It allows a special attack aka interruption
2) It essentially allows someone to get the benefits of dual wielding and the defense of a shield

That is why there is a cost (besides hitting someone with a shield is tiring)

So no, it doesn't mean it should do more damage than a regular attack because there is a cost involved.

Requiemslove

Drazticulous wrote: »

Here's how to play with 1h + shields in ESO

First, Block
Second, attack with skill/weapon Third block again,
Fourth, attack and then block again,

repeat process....

Notice in this short video they use "shield bash" to disorient opponent while they are attacking.

Shields in action

I do not see bash spamming..... Please tell me where in history someone spammed their shield onto an enemy to kill them?

I know, I know, this is a game not real life...... well if it's a game, you should be able to adapt better than in real life because obviously real life has you stuck here complaining.

And before you hate on me for this post..... I'm just waiting 'til I can log in passed the timeout phase of the patch, and laughing at you crying about one ability in the entire game.

That's all well and good, I wont argue why things have been changed in this game, frankly that is a boring subject to me. But I will say strong men who used shields did used to charge [admittedly over like maybe 3-5 meters] the enemy to ram their shields into the enemy...now, whose going to tell me a strong man, running at full sprint into an enemy, with a 3 foot steel shield with its top edge aimed at the windpipe is NOT going to hurt? Shield users also tended to do short and sudden bashes as indicated in the above video, though to be honest probably not QUITE the way they did in 300. I am not trying to say a shields primary role is not defence, as it surely is and always will be, but you CAN be aggressive with them too.

Drazticulous

Yes you can be aggressive but no one in their right mind is ONLY going to hit someone with a shield...

Oblongship

PVT_Parts wrote: »

"Shields are not supposed to do damage" " shields were never used to do damage, only block" These are all quotes from other threads. I just have to ask. Where did you get your BA in History?

EDIT: For those saying shield bash shouldn't do as much damage as a regular attack. What are you basing this off of? Shield bash has a stamina cost, normal attack does not, so it SHOULD do more damage.

oh my lord STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sure lets talk real life in a game with elves and orcs...

Requiemslove

Drazticulous wrote: »

Yes you can be aggressive but no one in their right mind is ONLY going to hit someone with a shield...

This is not strictly true. A skilled shield user can kill with just a shield. I am sure there is historical evidence of this but I don't have the dedication to dig it up.

Drazticulous

Requiemslove wrote: »

Drazticulous wrote: »

Yes you can be aggressive but no one in their right mind is ONLY going to hit someone with a shield...

This is not strictly true. A skilled shield user can kill with just a shield. I am sure there is historical evidence of this but I don't have the dedication to dig it up.

lol well I see your point.... let me add a slightly off topic theory..... Since they "fixed" aoe capping, why not cap how many people you can block at once? surely 4 guys surrounding you can't all be blocked at the same time... if that was fixed I wouldn't care the damage of shield bash because he wouldn't be able to block enough people to survive.

Maverick827

Artemiisia wrote: »

they are suppose to do damage, yes

but not at the point they become stronger then a sword, so of course a nerf was needed

Some of us would say that the sword needed a buff instead.

Melee is garbage in this game. Whether or not it was "silly," shield bash was the only viable melee, and they should not have nerfed it until they also had a fix to melee in place. Now we need to wait at least a month, probably many months, for weapons to receive a buff.

Anyone who was for the shield bash nerf is a caster or doesn't mind that their weapon-using character is terrible comparatively.

Requiemslove

Drazticulous wrote: »

Requiemslove wrote: »

Drazticulous wrote: »

Yes you can be aggressive but no one in their right mind is ONLY going to hit someone with a shield...

This is not strictly true. A skilled shield user can kill with just a shield. I am sure there is historical evidence of this but I don't have the dedication to dig it up.

lol well I see your point.... let me add a slightly off topic theory..... Since they "fixed" aoe capping, why not cap how many people you can block at once? surely 4 guys surrounding you can't all be blocked at the same time... if that was fixed I wouldn't care the damage of shield bash because he wouldn't be able to block enough people to survive.

Hey, so long as they don't make tanking super easy mode, I aint fussed. In lotro I can take on like 18 enemies AT ONCE [if I can find enough in a small enough area] and be like "meh, what are these flies up to *le-sigh* guess I ought to swat em" But yea, no shield user can block an attack the shield cant cover. It tends to be 180 degrees or something such as that. Have you got all 4 enemies in front, or two behind two in front? Only positioning is vital. If all are in front, a skilled shield user could foreseeably block all four.