Quethrosar wrote: »

this is the woke ,care bear answer lol. every mmo i have seen has a cap that gets lifted with an expansion and they do not die off.

A.) They still set a new fixed ceiling

B.) They do die off. They never grow outside of it happening twice for literally the biggest MMO ever. But never since. That one nosed dived the 3rd time they tried it with cataclysm. The only way they actually stemmed the bleeding was with Stat and level squishes later because they realized it was a bad idea.

But nice bait with the woke stuff. Elden Ring is literally one of the most successful games of the last decade and really all time. And, it specifically catered to new players while keeping enough of their soul for veterans. Any game needs new blood to refresh it. ESO is failing miserably at that. And adding a mediocre marginal progression system for top 1% of players won't change that.

They do not want to add more power creep to the Champion Point system because of the balance issues it might create. But there is also the fact that new players start the game everyday and discover Champion Point system.

Probably some players are intimidated by the Champion Point grind already. Most old players did not need to grind their points, but any new player who wants to do veteran raiding properly or play in Gray Host needs to grind some levels. If they add more and more power to the system, new players will be more pressured to grind, which might drove them off from the game.

When they reworked the system you needed like 2400 points in Blue Tree to complete the vertical progression. It is now 1560 They also adjusted the experience curve during the test server cycle to make grind easier.

Additionally offensive stat bonuses are cut down by a lot. They were giving %10 damage bonus to specific type of damages and now they are reduced %6 due to how much power it gives. Critical Damage nodes were also affected.

In my opinion current system is fine.

ToRelax wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

this is the woke ,care bear answer lol. every mmo i have seen has a cap that gets lifted with an expansion and they do not die off.

A.) They still set a new fixed ceiling

B.) They do die off. They never grow outside of it happening twice for literally the biggest MMO ever. But never since. That one nosed dived the 3rd time they tried it with cataclysm. The only way they actually stemmed the bleeding was with Stat and level squishes later because they realized it was a bad idea.

But nice bait with the woke stuff. Elden Ring is literally one of the most successful games of the last decade and really all time. And, it specifically catered to new players while keeping enough of their soul for veterans. Any game needs new blood to refresh it. ESO is failing miserably at that. And adding a mediocre marginal progression system for top 1% of players won't change that.

Well you are wrong about a few things

ESO has no problem getting new players it has a problem keeping them, mostly because of its horizontal progression amongst other things, which is why we are suggesting a new slot

[...]

So in your logic let’s penalise the core players that actually play the game and cater only to the ones that hardly do?

Endless vertical progression is probably the single worst thing you can do to keep new players around. And as for veterans, I assure you most players I know want less power creep, not more. We've already experienced it's effects on balance and build diversity.

No one spoke about endless vertical progression, just 1 more slots, it wouldn’t turn everything upside down as some of you suggest… just something for the core players (majority) and something to entice vets to return…

The complaints I hear/see from players no longer playing are overland content/story mode is too easy or they don’t like the combat… I have never heard of anyone complaining about the fact they need to level up to get stronger, ON A GAME… I hear a lot of console transfers complain about it though, if you are new you have no reason to grind cp you have tons of things to do

It’s important to try and keep new players yes but it’s more important to keep the core players, meaning the players who play most as a result those players will have a higher cp

I don’t know what kind of people you are around cause more damage is always welcomed… don’t lie to make a point lool

spaceghost8 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

this is the woke ,care bear answer lol. every mmo i have seen has a cap that gets lifted with an expansion and they do not die off.

A.) They still set a new fixed ceiling

B.) They do die off. They never grow outside of it happening twice for literally the biggest MMO ever. But never since. That one nosed dived the 3rd time they tried it with cataclysm. The only way they actually stemmed the bleeding was with Stat and level squishes later because they realized it was a bad idea.

But nice bait with the woke stuff. Elden Ring is literally one of the most successful games of the last decade and really all time. And, it specifically catered to new players while keeping enough of their soul for veterans. Any game needs new blood to refresh it. ESO is failing miserably at that. And adding a mediocre marginal progression system for top 1% of players won't change that.

Well you are wrong about a few things

ESO has no problem getting new players it has a problem keeping them, mostly because of its horizontal progression amongst other things, which is why we are suggesting a new slot

[...]

So in your logic let’s penalise the core players that actually play the game and cater only to the ones that hardly do?

Endless vertical progression is probably the single worst thing you can do to keep new players around. And as for veterans, I assure you most players I know want less power creep, not more. We've already experienced it's effects on balance and build diversity.

[…] don’t lie to make a point lool

I don't know what it is, but something tells me this thread of yours isn't going to go anywhere.

spaceghost8 wrote: »

Right Nuarblack how did I prove your point? I’m confused now… I just literally said there is no need to grind as a new player, you have tons of things to do… for end game content guilds just need you to be cp 300 and you can get that in 2 weeks of casual play

ToRelax yes we can pretend like ZOS actually takes any feedback… I was just throwing out an idea with no expectations… if you have nothing to say to further the conversation you don’t need to reply

My point in all this is that the game was more fun when I was levelling, unlocking champion points, now that I have everything it’s kind of dull, there is nothing to look forward to… this is why some players prefer to just start a new account while others just stop playing

More of the same isn't going to fix either problem. Veteran players(personally I'm on my 3rd account, 2nd PC, one Playstation) are not going to stick around for one more CP slot. Especially when as you claim, they have already earned it. That isn't a chase item, that's a post-hoc loyalty reward at best. I came back recently primarily cause they announced scribing. An extra CP star would not have brought me back.

And newer players are not going to stick around when there isn't interesting chase items or skills. Leveling is fun because you get entirely new skills to use as you level. If you added interesting CP stars that did more than marginal percentage upgrades that would be worth grinding for. That would be exciting to see as a newer player and keep them invested. I remember coming back for monster sets and seeing someone proc lambris or grothdarr and thinking dang I need to get to where I can do vet hard modes cause those are awesome. Nothing noticeable will happen like that if some long time players are running around with 5 stars instead of 4. Unless those stars are as interesting as monster sets or something actually build and gameplay defining.

I would rather have a wider variety on slottable blue CP points than more slots. More horizontal progression instead of more vertical progression.

Give me "add 400 weapon and spell power to x damage type" CP points. x ={physical,magical,bleeding,fire...}

the solution is (in my humble opinion) is to make most of green tree - passives, or completely redesign the tree providing boosts to what Matt Firor once called the "tentpole" systems. like provide better excavation and scribing rewards, but, again, constantly swapping green stars, depending on what you are doing is a serious design flaw. It should not be THAT annoying.

Right now PC players has "Jack of all Trades" addon, but its' immense popularity simply indicated that current Green tree design is very wrong and players-unfriendly.

Replacement of old awesome CP system with this was one of main reasons I stopped to actively play ESO few years ago

I only play because of cosmetics nowadays, and even that joy might be taken away soon

But for now I hope for the best, so I will voice my opinion on old and new CP systems.

Old system made it possible to unlock every awesome passive in time, after earning enough CPs. I always eagerly waited for every 30 CPs limit increase with some updates. Every CP I earned and put into constellations made my character more powerful and closer to eventually unlocking all passives - so the notification of earning one more CP was always a little celebration.

On new CP system, I have ~400 unassigned CPs in blue and red constellations - and zero need to assign them, because I never feel the need to replace them at all... Also, values of many of buffs are rather weak.

I am simple person, so I go for flat buffs first. Add some health, stamina/magicka, weapon/spell damage, bonus damage done/reduction from one type of attacks, resistances, recovery - and there are no free CP slots for anything more. No use of any fun new effects, not even those little echoes from the old CP system (no Major Heroism after taking damage at low health, no any ability cost reduction after drinking potion/breaking free - I just can't remember precisely what was triggering it in old system).

When I earn another CP, I don't have any reason to go into CP menu thinking "Awesome, I will add this CP here and receive another awesome perk!" My NPC companions react to it with such unwarranted excitement though, it's hilarious

For me, perfect solution would be: revert to old CP system. Of course, some perks in green constellation would be irreplaceable and dearly missed... Currently, only some of those perks give purpose to my earned CPs.

More realistic solution, which might satisfy me, would be: remove requirements for slottables, simply make all CP perks active all the time, once points are assigned to them. There are nerfs and combat/set changes all the time, no matter if we only have 4 CP slottables per constellation now.

At least there would be the feeling of my character getting more powerful with more CPs.

Combat CP of any kind should be passive, non combat CP of any kind should be passive.

Actually, if you farm resources, you press one button to change CP, if you have finished your farm, you press one button to switch CP for riding. If you have finished riding, you press one button to switch to resources gathering, if you reach a smith, you press one button to smelt your stuff. All these things i have written can be automated by addons.

In summary, the CP-System needs rework and split strict between combat stuff and non-combat stuff, that can be automated by addons.

ToRelax wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

this is the woke ,care bear answer lol. every mmo i have seen has a cap that gets lifted with an expansion and they do not die off.

A.) They still set a new fixed ceiling

B.) They do die off. They never grow outside of it happening twice for literally the biggest MMO ever. But never since. That one nosed dived the 3rd time they tried it with cataclysm. The only way they actually stemmed the bleeding was with Stat and level squishes later because they realized it was a bad idea.

But nice bait with the woke stuff. Elden Ring is literally one of the most successful games of the last decade and really all time. And, it specifically catered to new players while keeping enough of their soul for veterans. Any game needs new blood to refresh it. ESO is failing miserably at that. And adding a mediocre marginal progression system for top 1% of players won't change that.

Well you are wrong about a few things

ESO has no problem getting new players it has a problem keeping them, mostly because of its horizontal progression amongst other things, which is why we are suggesting a new slot

[...]

So in your logic let’s penalise the core players that actually play the game and cater only to the ones that hardly do?

Endless vertical progression is probably the single worst thing you can do to keep new players around. And as for veterans, I assure you most players I know want less power creep, not more. We've already experienced it's effects on balance and build diversity.

power creep needs to happen, whole point of leveling is to go to old zones or what not and 1 shot everything or solo older trials etc.. that is what makes games founded upon D&D type of thinking rule. ESO doesn't ever really let a player feel like itis better at 2000 cp vs. 0 cp.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Please don't.

Make green stars passives all you want, but don't add power to the CP system.

Power IS needed in the CP system.

The more you level the more power you get, this is a basic ideology for literally every game, elder scrolls included. Why not this game?

Also there is nothing wrong with catering to veteran players whilst also giving newer players something to look forward to.

Power already exists in CP system.There are different types of powers though.

In CP up until certain point You are getting vertical power increase but after reaching its limit You are getting a horizontal power which allows You to adjust Your CPs to Your liking on spot.

Every major MMO puts a cap on vertical power increase, this included. Increasing vertical power progression too much causes power creep to go through the roof and that causes plethora of issues for the game. ESO had this issue many times already and it always ended up the same, with updates where in order to bring power creep down devs striked lots of things with nerf hammer causing massive outcries in the community.

At the very least they should continue to add new CP stars. We've had the same ones for like two years. Or maybe longer. It feels very stale.

This.

When they originally announced CP 2.0, my first thoughts were:

1. Yes! Hybridization friendly.
2. Moving away from boring % multipliers.
3. The promise of space to expand the system with new CP over time.

To these points, they only really did number 1 and half of number 2, which are way better than before for sure... but almost all the CP nodes worth slotting are boring % multipliers. My expectation was to half nodes that revamped how we played, like "Forked Lightning: Have x% chance to deal y shock damage to nearby enemies."

When I saw that there was nothing really like that at launch, I remained opitimistc that it could be added on later. Surely they would want to start with a basic template of generic bonuses anyone can use.

Well.. like 5 years later? And it's received practically nothing. Same with Mythics, I was really hoping they wouldn't just be stat sticks, and they still are years later. The creativity on the team is severly lacking and any time we're promised something cool, like Class sets, they release content that is dead on arrival. I don't understand the teams unwillingness to design fun and creative ways to build our characters.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Please don't.

Make green stars passives all you want, but don't add power to the CP system.

Power IS needed in the CP system.

The more you level the more power you get, this is a basic ideology for literally every game, elder scrolls included. Why not this game?

Also there is nothing wrong with catering to veteran players whilst also giving newer players something to look forward to.

Power already exists in CP system.There are different types of powers though.

In CP up until certain point You are getting vertical power increase but after reaching its limit You are getting a horizontal power which allows You to adjust Your CPs to Your liking on spot.

Every major MMO puts a cap on vertical power increase, this included. Increasing vertical power progression too much causes power creep to go through the roof and that causes plethora of issues for the game. ESO had this issue many times already and it always ended up the same, with updates where in order to bring power creep down devs striked lots of things with nerf hammer causing massive outcries in the community.

At the very least they should continue to add new CP stars. We've had the same ones for like two years. Or maybe longer. It feels very stale.

This.

When they originally announced CP 2.0, my first thoughts were:

1. Yes! Hybridization friendly.
2. Moving away from boring % multipliers.
3. The promise of space to expand the system with new CP over time.

To these points, they only really did number 1 and half of number 2, which are way better than before for sure... but almost all the CP nodes worth slotting are boring % multipliers. My expectation was to half nodes that revamped how we played, like "Forked Lightning: Have x% chance to deal y shock damage to nearby enemies."

When I saw that there was nothing really like that at launch, I remained opitimistc that it could be added on later. Surely they would want to start with a basic template of generic bonuses anyone can use.

Well.. like 5 years later? And it's received practically nothing. Same with Mythics, I was really hoping they wouldn't just be stat sticks, and they still are years later. The creativity on the team is severly lacking and any time we're promised something cool, like Class sets, they release content that is dead on arrival. I don't understand the teams unwillingness to design fun and creative ways to build our characters.

Or even just take on board ideas that the community puts forward.

There have been so many interesting ideas put forward by so many different players on the forums over the years that could have at least been explored, but 99% of the time it's just more of what they come up with in-house (mostly just more of the same) with very little new stuff.

Another one I was hoping to see at some stage was a chain lighting type effect where the lightning arcs to nearby enemies (we sort of have it with multi hit shield throw and DW shrouded daggers), but no lightning abilities with this mechanic at all yet, despite being an obvious (and fun/thematic) mechanic for that damage type.

Should be able to use more of what's already there. 4 works but it also holds you back with certain circumstances, it's noticeable, especially when synergy is needed more than power. We have tons of options but really few options when all is said and done. It's amazing the difference between 4 slots and what adding one more could do, when there's really no reason to hold us back to 4.

+1 slot please.

I would really like more green items to be passives and not require slotting.

I have never micromanaged my blue and red choices. I picked what seemed reasonable and use that. I don't *** them around. I am now to the point of putting blue points into things I will probably never use on one account.

I wonder how much of the playerbase adjusts their slotted items? I have redistributed a couple I set a long time ago with "better ones" (like removing the health for ultimates" choice, but otherwise I don't adjust them. I may be missing out, but I haven't found it compelling enough to be worth the effort.