Vampire Ultimate "Bat Swarm" is literally out of control.

Kypho · May 2014

zazamalek wrote: »

It might be best to outright disable bat swarm in PvP until they are able to come up with the appropriate rework/rebalance.

The damage this is doing may never be undone. They should stop this from hurting their game any further.

You cant just block ppl using their skills because its unfair/broken/bugged. Thats just too much.
I say all who see bat swarming vamp, run into him and blow a kiss, then bow before em because they are so good fighters!

Inzababa · May 2014

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/80641/there-is-no-way-2-people-vamps-should-be-able-to-wipe-out-an-entire-zerg#latest

Nick_Klaus wrote: »

Funny most of these vampires are from Ebonheart Pact. All campaigns are spoiled because "Ultimate" cheat.

Watch and tell me how this is still allowed? 0 Ultimate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucmjldufa6U

n3c wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtN-rB0OQVU

that thread has now 17K views and ZERO comments from Zenimax

Inzababa · May 2014

crousty360b16_ESO wrote: »

Stay away from bat swarm, root vampire, burn it with fire from range.
Job's done

now I can say to you and all the other wanabe theorycrafters / pvp players without experience, here are two videos, see above.

zazamalek · May 2014

Kypho wrote: »

You cant just block ppl using their skills because its unfair/broken/bugged. Thats just too much.

Agreed. I feel it's fair that DKs should be able to be able to faceroll PvE until they are nerfed because it doesn't chase others away from the game. Hell, I had my 10-man group killed by a VR10 DK while we were all lowbies and we had a great laugh about it.

This is different. In my PvX guild we are now considering holding off "official" PvP events until the issue is resolved - we are trying to draw in PvE players but I'm pretty sure that the vamps last night chased many of them away, for good. Morale is low. There's posts about 100s of guild members in other guilds actually quitting the game. This balance issue is destroying the potential of Cyrodiil and TESO as a whole.

Finding (and testing) an appropriate balance fix takes time. It's too much of a risk. I'm not saying disable the abilities forever, I'm saying that until ZOS find an appropriate solution they should disable this game-breaking exploit. The vamps can simply slot another ability in PvP and carry on - they are a minority ruining the fun for the majority.

dexfmb16_ESO · May 2014

I can now formally accuse Zenimax for allowing players to exploit AP farming as vampire players in detriment of the rest of the players, thing that makes it impossible for the rest of players to compete for gear or place on ladder, thus making us to pay them without having a chance in a "competitive" MMO.
Did anyone saw any post from devs or they are really play stupid?
And as a personal opinion: a game that plays with such high percentage numbers from launch, shows amateurism.

bg22 · May 2014

So... I (not just now, but a while back) "L2P'd" and invested in the Fighters guild skills and what not.

Now VR5, was hitting a V10 vampire yesterday w/ my silver-leash for 42 damage.

42.

42 Damage.

If you didn't get that...

42 Damage.

(And those 2 videos above... Outstanding.) L2P. HAHAHA

That dude (the vampire) was dragging his face across his keyboard and killed a GIGANTIC zerg of ppl. That is exactly why I made this thread. Exactly.

Hessen · May 2014

Thread is relevant. Love the funny L2P responses

Maejohl · May 2014

bg22 wrote: »

Just a few moments ago, I was running around Cyrodiil, participating in a few sieges, when we came across a V10 Vampire... He literally just cast his ultimate and walked through the crowd of 20-30 ppl and basically insta-killed them (Including myself at V2). You can't be serious, can you?

Just had this - defending Bleaker's Outpost and an Ebonheart sorcerer was using the bat swarm exploit. ALL of the attackers waited outside whilst he just walked through the whole keep killing the 30 - 40 defenders on his own. Oil did not help. Fire blockades did not help. Mines did not help.

I get why the devs might not want to suspend people for this given that this is arguably not an exploit but just disable the damn skill for now. We had been having a fun evening of small scale PvP and decided to have some fun on the defence of the outpost - but this was no fun at all.

I know that this 'exploit' is being abused by all sides - I'm not expressly pointing the finger just at EP! I am, though, pointing the finger firmly at the devs who have the ability to turn that damn ultimate off until they work out a fix for the thing.

Alternatively officially confirm via ingame GM announcements, on twitter and here that using the swarm in this way will be considered an exploit, whose continued use will result in bans.

I guess, though, that the latter option would be perhaps a step too far.

bg22 · May 2014

Hessen wrote: »

Thread is relevant. Love the funny L2P responses

I know, right?
The "L2P" respondents in this situation mean "Please baby jesus, don't nerf my vampire bc I really have no clue how to actually PvP in a manner that requires a slight amount of skill."

Hessen · May 2014

Completely ruined our guild planned AvA evening too.

AshTal · May 2014

Major issue I see is even when they fix the joke that Bat Swarm has made PvP no one will be able to catch the Vampires on the leader board and they now have all the lv 10 assault and support abilities so they are still at an advantage to everyone else.
Plus I suspect a lot of people wont come back to check out the "fixed" PvP because there experience was an uber powerful character wiped their entire group without having to do anything.

Maejohl · May 2014

cjtignub17_ESO wrote: »

We killed that vamp dk that was in the youtube video yesterday with 3 people. Its unbelievable the entire zerg in that video couldnt kill him he must have had pocket healers.

We just dropped nagate magic on him and rooted\killed and he was vamp emperor so I duno what all the fuss is about. If u spread out his vamp ulti wont heal him if he even can get it off.

Possible perhaps in the open field.

Inside a keep there is nowhere to spread out to.

Neferath · May 2014

Maejohl wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Just a few moments ago, I was running around Cyrodiil, participating in a few sieges, when we came across a V10 Vampire... He literally just cast his ultimate and walked through the crowd of 20-30 ppl and basically insta-killed them (Including myself at V2). You can't be serious, can you?

Just had this - defending Bleaker's Outpost and an Ebonheart sorcerer was using the bat swarm exploit. ALL of the attackers waited outside whilst he just walked through the whole keep killing the 30 - 40 defenders on his own. Oil did not help. Fire blockades did not help. Mines did not help.

I get why the devs might not want to suspend people for this given that this is arguably not an exploit but just disable the damn skill for now. We had been having a fun evening of small scale PvP and decided to have some fun on the defence of the outpost - but this was no fun at all.

I know that this 'exploit' is being abused by all sides - I'm not expressly pointing the finger just at EP! I am, though, pointing the finger firmly at the devs who have the ability to turn that damn ultimate off until they work out a fix for the thing.

Alternatively officially confirm via ingame GM announcements, on twitter and here that using the swarm in this way will be considered an exploit, whose continued use will result in bans.

I guess, though, that the latter option would be perhaps a step too far.

There is no "Bat Swarm" exploit. Seriously do some research pls before posting.

Right at the moment you are able to abuse the mist form bug, since it allows you get healed or heal yourself while it shouldnt, and we have a real problem regarding ultimate cost reduction which isnt related to vamps at all but to the combination of sorc passives + pvp set items that allow to stack up and therefore enable you to spam what ever ultimate you want to. Almost the same goes for DK's.

So pls do some research before ranting bout vampies cause actually it's not the vamp skills that need to be nerfed at a whole but a single spell (mist form) wich needs to be fixed and the general ulti. cost reduction wich needs to be looked on.

Maejohl · May 2014

Neferath wrote: »

There is no "Bat Swarm" exploit. Seriously do some research pls before posting.

Right at the moment you are able to abuse the mist form bug, since it allows you get healed or heal yourself while it shouldnt, and we have a real problem regarding ultimate cost reduction which isnt related to vamps at all but to the combination of sorc passives + pvp set items that allow to stack up and therefore enable you to spam what ever ultimate you want to. Almost the same goes for DK's.

So pls do some research before ranting bout vampies cause actually it's not the vamp skills that need to be nerfed at a whole but a single spell (mist form) wich needs to be fixed and the general ulti. cost reduction wich needs to be looked on.

So those bats the guy had swarming around him and which killed me and some VR10 guys (me in less than a second, they in under 2) through a *** wall was a mist.

Right.

Neferath · May 2014

@Maejohl
no, but actually there are three reasons to die from the bats.
1. you melee a vamp while he uses his ultimate which is- forgive me - plain stupid
2. he abuses mist form in order to dont be targetable while he still gets the heal from the bat swarm while mist form actually isnt supposed to allow any form of healing or negative group effects for your character
3. he uses the sorc passives + pvp set items in order to reduce the ultimate costs to 4 or zero (btw. playing a dk you are able to achieve almost the same)

so actually we have one bugged active vamp skill, wich isnt working like it is supposed to be and this needs to get fixed asap without any doubt. Everything else, isnt vamp related at all, but still an issue of course.

Maejohl · May 2014

People on comms were saying that he had up to 8 bat swarms stacked - if that's possible it sounds extreme too.

RastSekyd · May 2014

The issue isn't with Bat Swarm alone(though Bat Swarm does have some big issues I'll get into shortly). It's a combination of things.

The Emperor gets a small reduction to ult costs(5% I believe), but a 200% increase in gains. Combined with the Akaviri Dragonguard set(3 items, 20% ult cost reduction) and a Stage 4 vampire's natural cost reduction(-60%), you can get the ult down to almost nothing.

In addition, the skill had/has a couple glaring issues: First off, if you have the resources to cast it you can cast it again while it's going and effectively stack the damage/healing. Secondly, bat swarm's hits seem to restore ult as well. Combine that with the Emperor's 200% gains and..yeah. Spammable stackable healing/damage.

Certain classes can further add to the mayhem. The Dragonknight passive "Deep Breaths", for example, restores resources upon activating an ult based on the cost. I hear it's currently bugged and ignoring any cost reductions though, so when you're able to spam it, you can essentially has max magicka/stamina as well.

As for Mist Form, the issue is that Devouring Swarm doesn't count as healing - It counts as "Draining"(like the Siphon skills) and therefore still takes effect. I agree this probably isn't what they intended, though. I personally see nothing wrong with the skill aside from being able to heal from draining skills, and even that wouldn't be an issue if ult spamming was fixed.

A simple and easy solution to all of this would be to add a hard cap to ult cost reduction, in addition to fixing the ult stacking and removing ult gains from damage caused by the ult itself. Perhaps 60%(as Stage 4 gives), or if they lower the stage cost reduction(as I've heard will happen) something even lower, like 40%.

Neferath · May 2014

@RastSekyd
thx that is exactly what is needed, but not a vamp nerf in general.

Reivaak · May 2014

Hello everybody,

It's clearly an "always up" bug. I made a 30 seconds video of a 30 minutes fight tonight and the vampire didn't hit players but he was still capable of remaining invisible and jumping on every enemy's at sight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g53ltj5vesc&feature=youtu.be

I think it's an exploit and every player using it should be punished. I don't care how but I think ZOS can't let this kind of behaviour ruining the fun of thousands people and not do something strong about it.
For example, in Guild Wars 2, if you used a new recipe that didn't worked as intended for earning a lot of gold, you could be banned. That's nothing compare of this vampire exploit.

These players are clearly removing all the fun in PVP. In a second fight we were running after a Scroll and engage a big tri-factions fight. That was the best fight I've ever seen until a Red vampire came in and ruin every thing by wiping every ennemy on the battleground.

I can't say this enough but I'll a last time, they should be punished.

Thanks fore reading me.

See you after fix in Cyrodiil

sagitter · May 2014

Neferath wrote: »

@RastSekyd
thx that is exactly what is needed, but not a vamp nerf in general.

What we need also is a fix that doesn't let you to abuse ultimates , because has no sense that u can use it like a normal ability or even worse spam it like in the video above.

sagitter · May 2014

Reivaak wrote: »

Hello everybody,

It's clearly an "always up" bug. I made a 30 seconds video of a 30 minutes fight tonight and the vampire didn't hit players but he was still capable of remaining invisible and jumping on every enemy's at sight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g53ltj5vesc&feature=youtu.be

I think it's an exploit and every player using it should be punished. I don't care how but I think ZOS can't let this kind of behaviour ruining the fun of thousands people and not do something strong about it.
For example, in Guild Wars 2, if you used a new recipe that didn't worked as intended for earning a lot of gold, you could be banned. That's nothing compare of this vampire exploit.

These players are clearly removing all the fun in PVP. In a second fight we were running after a Scroll and engage a big tri-factions fight. That was the best fight I've ever seen until a Red vampire came in and ruin every thing by wiping every ennemy on the battleground.

I can't say this enough but I'll a last time, they should be punished.

Thanks fore reading me.

See you after fix in Cyrodiil

I quote all and say that vamp skill should be desable untill they fix all these issues.

tim_barteneb17_ESO · May 2014

bg22 wrote: »

I just read all the vamp abilities. You're kidding me right? Passives that decrease incoming damage by 50%? Run while sneaking? Stam and Magicka recovery increase by 5%? Then the active mist form? Negate ALL damage by 75%? Hahahahaha This is a joke right?

Now that I see the ridiculous *** the devs have for vampires, I'm honestly considering leaving the game. And that's *** to say bc up until this, this has literally been my favorite game of all time.

Let's talk ab JUST one passive- Undeath: negate damage up to 50% when health drops below 30%. This (if I had it as a VR2) would basically give me an additional 600hp if you broke down the numbers.
- Then stack that on the active that negates 75% damage from all souces (for how long, I'm unsure) but even for 5-6 seconds it would equate to roughly 1000hp being added to my health. In total with just one passive, and one active that's a buffer of 1600hp. Where else in ANY skill line can you gain numbers like that on top of your class abilities?

You can't. This is *** ridiculous.

Have you played as a vampire?
No?
Well i did, either it is broken as hell or i cant play this game, anyway i feel absolutely UNDERpowered with the 75% dmg from fire.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO · May 2014

Nick_Klaus wrote: »

Funny most of these vampires are from Ebonheart Pact. All campaigns are spoiled because "Ultimate" cheat.

Watch and tell me how this is still allowed? 0 Ultimate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucmjldufa6U

OMG I think I ran into this exact same person yesterday on wabbajack! Either that or there is an exact clone of her running around there doing the same thing bolt escape+batswarm+invisible potion. I almost killed her and got her to like 30% health, but then she invisble potioned and bat swarmed GG, its like she almost wanted a fair fight for a little bit. Can I still consider that a win? I am playing a nightblade and I didnt even get off a sneak attack.

Wow ok on closer inspection of the video I noticed she isnt the same person, but shes doing the same thing. Also they arent using invisibility potions? Wow im counting that fight as a win yesterday what an exploit!

KoooZ · May 2014

Neferath wrote: »

There is no "Bat Swarm" exploit. Seriously do some research pls before posting.

So pls do some research before ranting bout vampies cause actually it's not the vamp skills that need to be nerfed at a whole but a single spell (mist form)

Turns out people could keep casting bat swarm, stacking it up instead of overwriting for great justice. Not an exploit perhaps, but damn if that isn't a problem that needed fixing with bat swarm.

Neferath · May 2014

@KoooZ
Yes i was wrong there and didnt notice the stacking bug.