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Vampire Ultimate "Bat Swarm" is literally out of control.
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niocwy✭✭✭I didn't really encounter vamps (not really a PvP player) but I saw some vids and read the forum a lot.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around this "vampire ***", and from what I read, it's about Bat Swarm having a problem, not in itself, but because :
-ultimate cost reduction makes it almost free (less than 10 ultimate cost, depending on the class used)
-you can get ultimate points while using an ultimate
-Mist Form is bugged : you can get heals while using it (if a hot is cast before, or through Critical Surge or other mechanics)
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...
Look at my profile picture. Visualize that muffin...smelling it...taking a bite...
Are you hungry now ?
Good.0 -
aellegaardjensenb16_ESOSoul Shrivenokaay okay okay.
Don't let imitation be your limitation.
Take 2 minutes of your time, to think about this and the following consequences.
Instead of crying over OP spells. Then consider this. Balance is appart of any online multiplayer game. This game is 1½ month old. Give it a chance!
And why not just hope that some other comboes in the game gets some more power instead. Ruining such a great synergy of skills is a pitty - And will call for more "NERFS, OP!, PLZ CHANGE" every time a new very good build comes up, or a set of items gets realesed.
- Think the other way around maybe. How about enanbling/boosting some of the other skill a bit more.
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- I have played both Dk and Vamp, and I agree that vamps and dk's might have a lot of pro's versus the common way people tend to build their characters/player up, but mostly Vamp. But be creative and find new ways, change the "meta-game" - At least thats what i did.
I'm sure Zenimax has some good developers working on balance along with the other updates but untill then - Use your imagination, thats how you get to be the best at most new games. not by waiting for the game to get easier.
Edited by aellegaardjensenb16_ESO on 30 April 2014 01:551 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭This vampire situation is really a bit out of control.
My main is a VR 10 DK (and werewolf, not that it matters since werewolves are completely useless in PvP and VR content PvE and the transformation also creates a bug so often that you don't want to use it; not that it would be worth 1000 ultimate to do less damage than in your normal form for a short amount of time while only having access to 2 mediocre stamina-based skills) and I've been doing PvP in Cyrodiil for a few days now.
While certain skills seem very strong in PvP (too strong maybe when compared with others), there is one thing concerning vampires that just is completely out of proportion. The result of the ultimate cost reduction for vampires paired with the abilities of bat swarm is ridiculous. Vampires can either be permanently invisible and do massive amounts of damage without any stamina or magicka cost to everyone close to them, or they can do the same damage to enemies near them and gain it as health. This second morph makes them literally invincible as long as 2-3 players are within the range of their bat swarm which in most situations they can achieve easily enough (if they are fighting a really large number of enemies then they need a bit more than 2-3, of course, but usually fighting more enemies just makes it easier for them to become invincible because there's always a few who don't realize what's going on and just stay next to the vampire until they die - at least in random parties). Should the situation ever turn bad for them - against all odds (for example when they are alone and fighting a well-coordinated group of 5 or so players who luckily managed to stay all out of the bat swarm range which is not always as easy as it sounds especially if you get chain-rooted with Dark Talons by other enemies or even other vampires) then they can simply use mist form, become untargettable and run away unharmed with 40% increased movement speed, so only a Sorcerer with Bolt Escape would ever have any chance to catch up to them. During all this time, they stay completely immune to all cc effects (except maybe Dark Talons and its morphs which they can avoid with dodge rolls or Retreating Maneuver), do not get knocked down by Silver Bolts either and are somehow unaffected by Turn Undead (I guess that's thanks to the Heavy Armor ability Immovable, but I'm not sure how they do it).
To those saying, this mechanic is not out of proportion:
If a single character can beat 10 or more enemies of the same level with equally good gear without any difficulty (and without using any siege weapons) where as with any other skill setup a single player could hardly ever beat more than 2 then it's just one single thing that completely breaks with the rules of the game.
Now, if I were one of the game's designers, I certainly would consider adjustments. But I guess not everyone would agree.
(P.S.: I'm fine with emperors being a lot stronger in PvP than regular players. That's not the issue.)Edited by GaldorP on 30 April 2014 04:280 -
RaZaddha✭✭✭Great work ZOS, I remember Cyrodiil being awesome, now it's a fanfiction from some twisted twilight fan.1 -
Phoenix99✭✭✭1) Decrease the AoE radius and duration, removing also self heal effect when misting
&
2) Remove cost reduction on ults from staged vampires or just increase the general cost SIGNIFICANTLY
&
3) Remove ult gain while under the effect of the swarm
-or-
- make it stationary channel - i.e. you are not moving while bat swarm is around.
-or-
- make it cancel whenever you use mist form or become invisible
any change out these above would fix the problem.Edited by Phoenix99 on 30 April 2014 07:201 -
Tripp3r✭✭✭Just a few moments ago, I was running around Cyrodiil, participating in a few sieges, when we came across a V10 Vampire... He literally just cast his ultimate and walked through the crowd of 20-30 ppl and basically insta-killed them (Including myself at V2). You can't be serious, can you?
VR10 is the highest level you can achieve in the game it makes sense that you as a VR2 got slaughtered.
if lower levels we're effective against VR10 what would be the point of attaining VR10?
Vampires are so broken.. you have no idea, every time we die we have to relog or our passives wont work.
Our ultimate is up there with the most expensive ultimate in the game, it takes A LOT for us to build ultimate.
and the weakness to fire, and the severely decreased health regeneration makes us easy to kill 99% of the time.
They are supernatural beings it makes sense for them to be this powerful, but at the same time, we are so vulnerable at the moment, that either you are exaggerating or your zerg was very, very weak.
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leewells✭✭✭I've never understood the complaining about DK's standard can't you just roll out of it and then it's useless. Hardly see much QQ about sorcs overload and the range and damage that does compared to standard is much more effective at killing.
I expect them anyway to change a few skills on vampire and hopefully buff WW a bit also.
I expected that too, but if you look at the test patch notes, it would seem that the WW is getting a huge nerf hitting them with the nerf stick at the only parts of being a WW that matter: stamina and armor.0 -
BadVoltSoul ShrivenAgreed. Just saw player Baby Bot killed about 40ppl alone. He just can't be killed. No way to stun, control. over 999k+ hp drain. Are you out of your mind, developers? If YOU was not able to run normal beta test, so have courage to fix issues you missed.0
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Lee✭People need to stop talking about vampires until they learn why they're OP, else you're going to ruin the games balance more than you're ruining it now. Ultimate reducers need to be removed from the game and how this made it into release is beyond me. If you nerf bat swarm or limit the AoE cap to 6, It will be unusable because without ultimate reducers, It's mediocre at best.
It's because of vampire whining we're getting an AoE cap.0 -
leewells✭✭✭People need to stop talking about vampires until they learn why they're OP, else you're going to ruin the games balance more than you're ruining it now. Ultimate reducers need to be removed from the game and how this made it into release is beyond me. If you nerf bat swarm or limit the AoE cap to 6, It will be unusable because without ultimate reducers, It's mediocre at best.
It's because of vampire whining we're getting an AoE cap.
You mean like how WW ult is unusable in PVP? Sounds like balance to me!0 -
Lee✭People need to stop talking about vampires until they learn why they're OP, else you're going to ruin the games balance more than you're ruining it now. Ultimate reducers need to be removed from the game and how this made it into release is beyond me. If you nerf bat swarm or limit the AoE cap to 6, It will be unusable because without ultimate reducers, It's mediocre at best.
It's because of vampire whining we're getting an AoE cap.
You mean like how WW ult is unusable in PVP? Sounds like balance to me!
Rather irrelevant, although if you are concerned about WW ult, make a post about it.
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TheGrimaceOR✭✭Make up your mind people I swear. We get crys about the AoE cap that it will turn pvp into just zerg against zerg. Crying about we want small groups to be able to deal with huge zergs. Then when there are case of 1 player affective with certain tactics its crys of " A giant group of *** should destory everything"0 -
leewells✭✭✭People need to stop talking about vampires until they learn why they're OP, else you're going to ruin the games balance more than you're ruining it now. Ultimate reducers need to be removed from the game and how this made it into release is beyond me. If you nerf bat swarm or limit the AoE cap to 6, It will be unusable because without ultimate reducers, It's mediocre at best.
It's because of vampire whining we're getting an AoE cap.
So do you, or do you not want to hear about "balance" (your quote, not mine)? Or are you only concerned about balance when it is self serving?TheGrimaceOR wrote: »Make up your mind people I swear. We get crys about the AoE cap that it will turn pvp into just zerg against zerg. Crying about we want small groups to be able to deal with huge zergs. Then when there are case of 1 player affective with certain tactics its crys of " A giant group of *** should destory everything"
No, the AOE can roll a very organized group of 8 or 18, in fact it doesn't matter how big the group is, the only defense is to permanently run a ganking squad and pray the vamp comes for your V10 before your level 10 because if its the ladder, any assistance given to that level 10, will ensure everyone's death. And don't give me this roll BS, most people can only roll 4 times max, while vamps can spam their ult and dk talons.Edited by leewells on 30 April 2014 12:151 -
rophez_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxBlMayv12M&t=11m0s
In case anyone hasn't seen it in person. This is NOT working as intended.
Go to around 11:20 for the full cheese.Edited by rophez_ESO on 30 April 2014 12:152 -
Lee✭do you, or do you not want to hear about "balance" (your quote, not mine)? Or are you only concerned about balance when it is self serving?
Really? Wow, ok... This is a post about vampires, not WW. To balance vampires nerfing an already sub par skill because of a mechanical flaw is ludicrous. Removing ultimate cost reducers from the game entirely would help the well being of the games balance and reduce what is happening with vampires AND bat swarm right now. Instead, you choose to mention WW, which has a different problem all together, which in itself is laughable. I think you're the one who has self serving motives, I hope your WW issues get solved as quickly as the vampire one, which is not bat swarm, It's how they're spamming bat swarm, Ultimate cost reduction.0 -
Sariias✭✭✭If any entire army has to dodge to avoid one player, something is very, very wrong.
One player has the power to burn up an entire army's stamina by forcing them to dodge and dodge and dodge, and cripple all of the melee builds at the same time.
If you can't see why this is wrong, and still think the problem is other players and not the vampire, you're delusional.1 -
Jaxom✭✭✭✭This whole thread gives me a headache. The problem is NOT the skill. It's the fact that you can stack Ultimate reduction to make it basically free. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. The skill itself is capped at 6 people and does 200 damage a second. If you can spam it through Ultimate stacking, then it becomes OP like every other Ultimate out there. Ultimate's aren't meant to be spammed.
I don't see how this is hard to understand. I really don't......
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Stravokov✭✭✭✭
^^^This whole thread gives me a headache. The problem is NOT the skill. It's the fact that you can stack Ultimate reduction to make it basically free. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. The skill itself is capped at 6 people and does 200 damage a second. If you can spam it through Ultimate stacking, then it becomes OP like every other Ultimate out there. Ultimate's aren't meant to be spammed.
I don't see how this is hard to understand. I really don't......
This.
the skill/ultimate is balanced. what is not balanced is what was stated in the above qoute and that ALL AOE skills presently do not have a target cap. in the big patch they got coming, they will be reducing all AOE skills to 6 targets.
the Vampire ultimate is fine, what is not fine is the stacking of gear/passives to make Ultimate point generation/cost imbalanced. also i think Ultimate generation goes up WAY to fast from blocking (you get ultimate points for blocking as well). in allot of the videos i have seen, people are blocking to generate their ultimate that much quicker. couple that with the Bash spam build and you have a recipe for disaster.
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VaikuSoul Shriven
^^^This whole thread gives me a headache. The problem is NOT the skill. It's the fact that you can stack Ultimate reduction to make it basically free. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. The skill itself is capped at 6 people and does 200 damage a second. If you can spam it through Ultimate stacking, then it becomes OP like every other Ultimate out there. Ultimate's aren't meant to be spammed.
I don't see how this is hard to understand. I really don't......
This.
the skill/ultimate is balanced. what is not balanced is what was stated in the above qoute and that ALL AOE skills presently do not have a target cap. in the big patch they got coming, they will be reducing all AOE skills to 6 targets.
Wrong. Do some research, please.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/89420/area-of-effect-abilities-maximum-target-cap-clarification/p1
Edited by Vaiku on 30 April 2014 20:070 -
Maarek✭Just a question... So the PvE players are supposed to get their skills nerfed because the PvP players get killed too much and can't figure it out?1
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Soban✭✭✭do you, or do you not want to hear about "balance" (your quote, not mine)? Or are you only concerned about balance when it is self serving?
Really? Wow, ok... This is a post about vampires, not WW. To balance vampires nerfing an already sub par skill because of a mechanical flaw is ludicrous. Removing ultimate cost reducers from the game entirely would help the well being of the games balance and reduce what is happening with vampires AND bat swarm right now. Instead, you choose to mention WW, which has a different problem all together, which in itself is laughable. I think you're the one who has self serving motives, I hope your WW issues get solved as quickly as the vampire one, which is not bat swarm, It's how they're spamming bat swarm, Ultimate cost reduction.
Ultimate cost reduction(on everything but bat swarm) is capped at 43% for sorcs, 34% for temps, 28% for everything else, except for bat swarm. Say what you will about ult cost reduction, but you aren't reaching 98-100% reduction on anything but bat swarm.Edited by Soban on 1 May 2014 00:30<BiS>0 -
Guys, the Death Star isn't OP, it has a counter. You just have to maneuver a small fighter along the meridian trench on its northern hemisphere and fire a proton torpedo into a small thermal exhaust port approximately 2 meters wide, no bigger than a womp rat.
Seriously though bat swarm on my DK cost only 40 ult to cast with my 80% reduction and if I was a sorc it would be 10 or less. I will enjoy chasing away entire raids with a couple of other vamps doing the same thing while it lasts.1 -
I love some of the posts on the first page that says 3 of us could take one down???
It takes 3 people to take 1 person down?
Also take some healers with you and you wont die to it. Again 2 or more people to take down someone using one ability.
Something very wrong here.GumBo72.
Xbone EU.
Azuras Star Campaign.0 -
prana33b14_ESO✭✭✭gumboeb17_ESO wrote: »I love some of the posts on the first page that says 3 of us could take one down???
It takes 3 people to take 1 person down?
Also take some healers with you and you wont die to it. Again 2 or more people to take down someone using one ability.
Something very wrong here.
While the vampire issues are probably very op at the moment from the sounds of it, in a group based pvp game don't expect perfect 1v1 balance. Certain classes may do better at small scale fights than other builds and others are better in large fights and not much you can do but build for the fights you are going to be in.
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ferzalrwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The defenders are either bat-cheats or haven't actually been out and played against them. It is ridiculous - honestly. Everyone who knows anything about the state of PVP out there knows it. Including the VR10 DKVamps. Surely you guys have had enough fun now. I know it must be a hoot for a bit but surely it gets boring after a while? I know many of you have said you've had enough and pointed out how absurd it is. Let's all get aboard balanced PVP or it'll be an undead realm out there and will kick this game to F2P before you can say batarang.
It's not just the bats but that's the biggest issue at the moment.
Some better scaling would be nice too (I'd like more fresh blood out there) but that's another thread...1 -
Gaudrath✭✭✭ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »The defenders are either bat-cheats or haven't actually been out and played against them. It is ridiculous - honestly. Everyone who knows anything about the state of PVP out there knows it. Including the VR10 DKVamps. Surely you guys have had enough fun now. I know it must be a hoot for a bit but surely it gets boring after a while? I know many of you have said you've had enough and pointed out how absurd it is. Let's all get aboard balanced PVP or it'll be an undead realm out there and will kick this game to F2P before you can say batarang.
The problem is, the exploit is also the best way to farm AP right now. So you will always have players who keep doing it for the AP alone.
This will not go away until ZOS makes it go away. Players will not do it.0 -
Here's a hint for fighting vampires: stay spread out, dont zerg rush one in a tight group. Use ranged.. Lack of tactics is peoples main problem for why they lose in pvp. Read up on RL military tactics, it applies in this game. Alot of RL military play this game, that is why they are kicking your butts. Teamwork, coordination with group and with other guilds, rehearsals, communication with a headset. This is what you need to have in this games pvp.
we deal with those damned DC vampires quite well but its the seer annoyance of many of them being able to runaway and regroup because they're untargettable and the fact they loose their faction icon in bat swarm that makes us hate them so much.
Keepers of Cyrodiil - EU - AD0 -
Kypho✭✭✭✭They are 1 button guys.Just a few moments ago, I was running around Cyrodiil, participating in a few sieges, when we came across a V10 Vampire... He literally just cast his ultimate and walked through the crowd of 20-30 ppl and basically insta-killed them (Including myself at V2). You can't be serious, can you?
VR10 is the highest level you can achieve in the game it makes sense that you as a VR2 got slaughtered.
if lower levels we're effective against VR10 what would be the point of attaining VR10?
Vampires are so broken.. you have no idea, every time we die we have to relog or our passives wont work.
Our ultimate is up there with the most expensive ultimate in the game, it takes A LOT for us to build ultimate.
and the weakness to fire, and the severely decreased health regeneration makes us easy to kill 99% of the time.
They are supernatural beings it makes sense for them to be this powerful, but at the same time, we are so vulnerable at the moment, that either you are exaggerating or your zerg was very, very weak.
"Our ultimate is ..." lawl werewolf? And your ultimate what does 200-300 dmg per 0.5 sec, what healing you too. And its regenerating ultimate like a god. You just talk crap BS.Edited by Kypho on 1 May 2014 09:511 -
Kypho✭✭✭✭Just a question... So the PvE players are supposed to get their skills nerfed because the PvP players get killed too much and can't figure it out?
in pve when do you need such ultispam? and wth are you doing here in alliance war tactics?
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zazamalek✭✭✭It might be best to outright disable bat swarm in PvP until they are able to come up with the appropriate rework/rebalance.
The damage this is doing may never be undone. They should stop this from hurting their game any further.4102