Vampire Ultimate "Bat Swarm" is literally out of control.

rviacrozeb16_ESO

when more or less 90% of the server is vampire

yep something is wrong

Kypho

Swarm, root, swarm. Swarm from stealth! its the way to "fight"
It is a fight? LoL

Daruq

We, group of 5
4 non-vets 1 vet1

Opponent, 1 vampire

Result:
4 dead non-vets
1 longer fight I (vet1) was winning, until...
BAM vampire ultimate, dead in 2 seconds

Next fight, 2 non-vets left
open dungeon, same vampire

I guess we got lucky or he wasn't expecting it or his ultimate was down.
Vampire died in about 5 seconds

Next encounter, vampire's ultimate was up, we just zoned into the open dungeon.
Root, Ultimate, we're dead in 3 seconds.

Problem: No visual indication of the ultimate being activated, unlike the DK banner. To spell it out, if there was, like with the DK banner you could run out and kite. However there is none.

Next vampire encounter, different vampire.
We get the jump, get him down to like 10% hp, mist form run run run mist form run run run mist form run run run. He got away. Unable to target him.

Vampire is current OP. Those 2 abilities equal an i win button.
If the ultimate is up you win automatically, if you're about to die, mist form and run away. GG.

Addendum, Alpha Classes are a bad idea, especially Alpha Classes that are sdo easily accessible. Look at everyone's most hated/loved game, the trash that made MMOs the pos they currently are, WoW, Paladins/Shamans at release were Alpha Classes. What happened when people realized they're more powerful than other classes? They became FOTM. Result: nerfs.
Good implementation of alpha classes: SWG Jedi. Permadeath is arguable however in order to unlock Jedi you had to grind out an uncertain number of profession(5 out of 31), do time-consuming trials, craft your own light saber to start out with nothing. You could not wield your lightsaber in public or imperial drones would be ported in and you would get visibility flagged, that means you would appear on bounty hunter missions. Let's not forget the post-padawan grind which was atrocious, 1. it took 6 weeks of 12-14 hours/day of grinding and 2. you had to grind solo and in remote areas else you'd be visibility flagged. Permadeath was removed later. Now full ground out Jedi were able to take on 20 players and survive if they knew what they were doing.

The way Alpha Classes are done in this game isn't right. On many levels this game also feels like an oversimplification of the MMORPG genre, but that's a different topic. If you have Alpha Classes the penalties need to be great, both social and gameplay-wise and I don't see this game having the tools or the environment to have those severe penalties because of its oversimplification of everything, which I can understand, got to get the WoWbies to play your game and like it, but well.. my 2 paragraphs, Alpha Classes in ESO = bad idea.

Dudis

Daruq wrote: »

BAM vampire ultimate, dead in 2 seconds

I guess your mate only had about 3-400 health left then...

Daruq wrote: »

Problem: No visual indication of the ultimate being activated, unlike the DK banner. To spell it out, if there was, like with the DK banner you could run out and kite. However there is none.

There 's PLENTY of visual indication. Firstly, there are the bats, secondly your screen even goes darker like if it's at night.
Also the sound really stands out.

Daruq wrote: »

Next vampire encounter, different vampire.
We get the jump, get him down to like 10% hp, mist form run run run mist form run run run mist form run run run. He got away. Unable to target him.

I'll give you that this is bull. The spell can keep either it's runspeed or its damage reduction but it can't make you immune to almost everything.



Bat Swarm itself isn't really OP, the ability to make it basically free is.

Just spread out when he pops ult. All it does is about 800 damage over 5 seconds, which is what, a heal and a half? Just don't let him hit everyone with it.

DeLindsay

bg22 wrote: »

Just a few moments ago, I was running around Cyrodiil, participating in a few sieges, when we came across a V10 Vampire... He literally just cast his ultimate and walked through the crowd of 20-30 ppl and basically insta-killed them (Including myself at V2). You can't be serious, can you?

First off, check out content patch 1.1 notes and you will see that Bat Swarm is indeed getting a nerf, and is because of bads crying in PvP. Second, literally everything that gets nerfed in games is because people are bad at PvP and can't figure out how to beat so-and-so class so they cry on the forums until the devs have little choice but nerf it. That said, yes Vampires are a bit OP right now, but the incoming nerf 'bat' will tweak it anyway so no worries.

Gaudrath

DeLindsay wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Just a few moments ago, I was running around Cyrodiil, participating in a few sieges, when we came across a V10 Vampire... He literally just cast his ultimate and walked through the crowd of 20-30 ppl and basically insta-killed them (Including myself at V2). You can't be serious, can you?

First off, check out content patch 1.1 notes and you will see that Bat Swarm is indeed getting a nerf, and is because of bads crying in PvP. Second, literally everything that gets nerfed in games is because people are bad at PvP and can't figure out how to beat so-and-so class so they cry on the forums until the devs have little choice but nerf it. That said, yes Vampires are a bit OP right now, but the incoming nerf 'bat' will tweak it anyway so no worries.

"A bit OP"? A single player taking on 20-30 others and surviving more than 2 seconds is "a bit OP" to you? Man, talk about euphemisms. Are you British?

Bat swarm is getting a fix, not a nerf. Apparently it was able to target an unlimited number of targets, which obviously made it what it is. I wasn't aware that there were AoE caps in the game, but devs say so and that bat swarm was one of the bugged abilities which didn't have it - we all know the results.

DeLindsay

So can you say for SURE that any Vampire you've faced wasn't on a side with all (6) scrolls and every buff possible in the game with the best crafted gear at his/her level and back up that you didn't notice because you were too busy dropping your jaw at the Vamps OP-ness? Batswarm is currently also capable of hitting targets through walls, and yes it's a nerf because they're reducing the number of enemies it can hit at one time, same with all AOE, which again is a nerf due to bads in PvP crying that such and such is OP instead of learning how to counter them. I'm not saying you are one of them, but it's honest none the same.

Gaudrath

DeLindsay wrote: »

So can you say for SURE that any Vampire you've faced wasn't on a side with all (6) scrolls and every buff possible in the game with the best crafted gear at his/her level and back up that you didn't notice because you were too busy dropping your jaw at the Vamps OP-ness? Batswarm is currently also capable of hitting targets through walls, and yes it's a nerf because they're reducing the number of enemies it can hit at one time, same with all AOE, which again is a nerf due to bads in PvP crying that such and such is OP instead of learning how to counter them. I'm not saying you are one of them, but it's honest none the same.

I don't care if they had 300 scrolls stacked mile high in their temples made of gold with naked nubile maidens prancing about in fountains of perfume, one player CANNOT be able to take on 30 others and survive. He could be VR10 and they lvl 10 with starter bows, he dies, simple as that.

End of discussion. This is not about skill. It's not about effort. It's about bugs being exploited. Bugs don't get nerfed. They get fixed.

Soban

I wouldn't mind if they hotfixed(disabled) bat swarm for the sake of diversity.

Neferath

Gaudrath wrote: »

I don't care if they had 300 scrolls stacked mile high in their temples made of gold with naked nubile maidens prancing about in fountains of perfume, one player CANNOT be able to take on 30 others and survive. He could be VR10 and they lvl 10 with starter bows, he dies, simple as that.

End of discussion. This is not about skill. It's not about effort. It's about bugs being exploited. Bugs don't get nerfed. They get fixed.

If 10 Ants decide to attack a human the Ants die, simple as that.

If 10 Footsoldiers without proper equipment decide to attack a heavy Leopard Tank they die, simple as that.

If 10 lowlevel ESO players decide to attack a full geared vet10 player they die, simple as that.

DeLindsay

Also, to help out bads in PvP, ZoS is adding a mechanic in 1.1 that buffs the lower pop Faction to be roughly equal with the higher pop Faction at that time. Granted that's a no brainer and probably should've been implemented in the beginning but at least they're doing something about it.

ruzlb16_ESO

All my the skills on my action bar are fine, it's the ones on everyone else's that need a nerf ><

Samiri

bg22 wrote: »

Just a few moments ago, I was running around Cyrodiil, participating in a few sieges, when we came across a V10 Vampire... He literally just cast his ultimate and walked through the crowd of 20-30 ppl and basically insta-killed them (Including myself at V2). You can't be serious, can you?

Its a bug, your not suposed to be able to get healed in mist form.

Dudis

Samiri wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Just a few moments ago, I was running around Cyrodiil, participating in a few sieges, when we came across a V10 Vampire... He literally just cast his ultimate and walked through the crowd of 20-30 ppl and basically insta-killed them (Including myself at V2). You can't be serious, can you?

Its a bug, your not suposed to be able to get healed in mist form.

You should also probably check if your armor is broken since insta-killing with an ability that deals 200 damage per second just won't happen.

Gaudrath

Neferath wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

I don't care if they had 300 scrolls stacked mile high in their temples made of gold with naked nubile maidens prancing about in fountains of perfume, one player CANNOT be able to take on 30 others and survive. He could be VR10 and they lvl 10 with starter bows, he dies, simple as that.

End of discussion. This is not about skill. It's not about effort. It's about bugs being exploited. Bugs don't get nerfed. They get fixed.

If 10 Ants decide to attack a human the Ants die, simple as that.

If 10 Footsoldiers without proper equipment decide to attack a heavy Leopard Tank they die, simple as that.

If 10 lowlevel ESO players decide to attack a full geared vet10 player they die, simple as that.

Ok, so this being a game and us all being humans who sit at our keyboards, your point is?

And I said 30. Not 10. I said 30 for a reason, because that's what happens - one player wiping out 30 players single handedly using bugged mechanics and broken builds. I don't care if those 30 players had trash gear and weapons, they should still get to slaughter that VR10 or the balance is totally broken and ZOE should just bracket the damn thing if they feel ESO PvP should be like WoW.

DeLindsay

Gaudrath wrote: »

And I said 30. Not 10. I said 30 for a reason, because that's what happens - one player wiping out 30 players single handedly using bugged mechanics and broken builds. I don't care if those 30 players had trash gear and weapons, they should still get to slaughter that VR10 or the balance is totally broken and ZOE should just bracket the damn thing if they feel ESO PvP should be like WoW.

You know after that comment I'd love for ZoS to NOT fix anything with Vampires (even the obvious bugs that really do need fixing and the ones they already announced are being fixed) just to drive folks like you away from ESO and back to WoW. Yes, Vampires are bugged atm, and so are every single class and like 100 quests, and maybe 1000 node spawn locations, etc etc. Instead of crying about it on the forums maybe do a little research and you would read that in patch 1.1 ZoS is indeed fixing the Vampire bugs that currently make them harder than should be to kill.

Neferath

@Gaudrath
Actually my point is, if i write 31 posts at this forum that is read by some thousands of people and only get 7 agrees, 1 awesome and 1 LoL out of that, obviously all those thousends of other people who didnt gave me one of these are totally broken and definately need to be nerfed since they utterly failed to see that i'am the only one who is right here and their opinion counts nothing ...

You see the point now?

Gaudrath

DeLindsay wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

And I said 30. Not 10. I said 30 for a reason, because that's what happens - one player wiping out 30 players single handedly using bugged mechanics and broken builds. I don't care if those 30 players had trash gear and weapons, they should still get to slaughter that VR10 or the balance is totally broken and ZOE should just bracket the damn thing if they feel ESO PvP should be like WoW.

You know after that comment I'd love for ZoS to NOT fix anything with Vampires (even the obvious bugs that really do need fixing and the ones they already announced are being fixed) just to drive folks like you away from ESO and back to WoW. Yes, Vampires are bugged atm, and so are every single class and like 100 quests, and maybe 1000 node spawn locations, etc etc. Instead of crying about it on the forums maybe do a little research and you would read that in patch 1.1 ZoS is indeed fixing the Vampire bugs that currently make them harder than should be to kill.

I know. ZOS did what I am talking about - they fixed a bug. I expect we will not be seeing vampire overlords killing 30 players by themselves anymore once the patch hits live. If we do, rest assured that ZOS will nerf them again and again until the playing field is leveled.

They do want their game to be appealing to everyone, not just Twillight fans, you know.

Gaudrath

Mistype, ignore.

Gaudrath

Neferath wrote: »

@Gaudrath
Actually my point is, if i write 31 posts at this forum that is read by some thousands of people and only get 7 agrees, 1 awesome and 1 LoL out of that, obviously all those thousends of other people who didnt gave me one of these are totally broken and definately need to be nerfed since they utterly failed to see that i'am the only one who is right here and their opinion counts nothing ...

You see the point now?

No... you're not very good at it, sorry. Are you trying to say my opinion doesn't matter because I am a minority?

If so, I should mention how game balancing works, - ZOS will not listen much to what we're typing here. Balancing is done according to metrics tools, not player arguments. I'm arguing for the fun of it, not because I expect devs will actually listen to me. Or anyone else.

But I am fairly certain any build allowing anyone to take on a zerg solo under any circumstances is going to pop up on those metrics like a big fat sore thumb. And they don't like that.

Neferath

@Gaudrath
And again you failed to see the point, but well keeping in mind your previous posts, the reason for that might be that it's simply not "your" point.

eisenheitb16_ESO

You all need to pour some water in your wine (and as a french guy this is something you mustn't do in real life ), and keep constructive feedback/criticism.

Granted, non-vampires are all taken aback by Vampires.
Granted, Vampires think of themselves as not OP.
And finally, granted, we all frown when someone's crying to nerf.

BUT... At some point, we shouldn't be blinded by our point of view, and our point of view only.
There are WAY TOO MUCH Vampires on any server. You might say "No, it's OK.", then I'll ask "Are Werewolf as much as Vampires ?". Let me answer for you : no, they aren't. Sooooo, we are talking about two "Alpha Classes" to quote someone here speaking of SWToR. Let's be honest, and forget simple humans here. They should be something like 50/50, or something at least close to 60/40 if they were balanced between them.
Now, do you all vampires begin to see the problem ? It's more like 99/1.
This, in itself, shows that there is a problem.

You don't need to get out with mathematics and all, you just need to look at how many werewolves are around you. Answer is : not enough, compared to vampires.
Now, MAYBE this comes from Werewolf class not adapted to your liking, your gameplay, or even your optimization. But at some point, it cannot justify 99/1 (or 98/2, maybe).
Noooow, we must, as MANY players said, include the fact that Vampires passives are... bugged.
Wait wait wait.
So, this means that a class completely bugged, getting debuffs to elements like fire, or even weak against fighter guild skills, are completely OVERWHELMING anyone ?! And almost the whole server is/wants to be a vampire ?! Does that sound logic to you ?

Bat Swarm in itself is a problem. Zenimax needs to adjust it, and I won't fear to tell everyone that I died in 2 seconds against a vampire with this skill only. And some people here are implying "yeah but it hits like 200 per sec !"... That's just amusing, considering I once heard bats, rolled out immediately, was less than 1 second in the circle, and finished out with 30% hp. That means I took 1300 damage approximatively. In a second. Funny how 200 is far from that. Maybe with the lag (EU things, of course, as usual) I actually was 2 second in the ultimate ! OK. 650 damage per sec isn't THAT bad. I mean, who would wish for that ?

I truly believe Bat Swarm (not even talking about Mist Form) isn't broken, and just needs a balance. Not a big nerf, but something really helping to consider it as an Ultimate ability, and not a damage-ultimate ability + cost of a regular one + range of a ultimate one.
Something like "less radius", "more cost". Let the damage be the same. With half radius, it should be a matter of skill to target who you want to target, and stay close to it. Also, for the enemy player, it should encourage to use more CC, especially the Fighter Guild Trap Beast, or even roll out more reactively.

As a healer myself, I believe it should be VERY rewarding to heal a friend, with a very skilled vampire against him. Right now, it's just no use.

Sorry for the long post, but I felt like saying it out loud.

Skylandra

while I don't think Vampire needs to be nerfed, I did see an Odd mechanic today in Cyrodiil - Bat Swarm goes through solid walls. This is the only thing I think needs changing. The Emperor ( who was a Vamp) was able to use this to great Effect and I think it should be changed.

Vampires are easy to kill - just don't get close. Their ultimate heals them according to haw many people are close - so tell the Melee to back of and hit them with Silver Bolts/ranged.

Bramir

Anyone acting like they are 'Pro' in this game is just a *** who should be ignored.

Zintair

Bat Swarm doesn't need a nerf. The Ultimate mechanic needs it.

Two things need to be done.

1.) Nerf Ultimate Reduction on gear sets / Get rid of it

2.) You can no longer generate Ultimate while Ultimate is active.

This will essentially CRUSH BAt Swarmers as they have to start over completely when the ultimate is done and are vulnerable.

Don't nerf the skill it isn't broken. The part that is broken is the SPAM cast of it.

Common sense people.

Inzababa

vamps are op in pvp

anyone disagreeing with that is

- pve player without pvp experience
- theorycrafter who studies the paperwork without pvp experience
- vampire who don't wana be nerfed
- trolls

it really is that simple

Zintair

Inzababa wrote: »

vamps are op in pvp

anyone disagreeing with that is

- pve player without pvp experience
- theorycrafter who studies the paperwork without pvp experience
- vampire who don't wana be nerfed
- trolls

it really is that simple

They wouldn't be OP if the mechanics were corrected. Did you just post and not read any of the posts above you? What say you to a proposed nerf I stated directly above you?

I am a Vamp

I PvP ALL the time

I am VR10

I have fought against unkillable vamps and killed them. Maybe take a second and think about it.

Inzababa

Zintair wrote: »

Inzababa wrote: »

vamps are op in pvp

anyone disagreeing with that is

- pve player without pvp experience
- theorycrafter who studies the paperwork without pvp experience
- vampire who don't wana be nerfed
- trolls

it really is that simple

They wouldn't be OP if the mechanics were corrected. Did you just post and not read any of the posts above you? What say you to a proposed nerf I stated directly above you?

I am a Vamp

I PvP ALL the time

I am VR10

I have fought against unkillable vamps and killed them. Maybe take a second and think about it.

we not talking about 1 vs 1 here wise guy

it's easier to kill a vamp in 1 vs 1 than group vs 1

Zintair

Inzababa wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Inzababa wrote: »

vamps are op in pvp

anyone disagreeing with that is

- pve player without pvp experience
- theorycrafter who studies the paperwork without pvp experience
- vampire who don't wana be nerfed
- trolls

it really is that simple

They wouldn't be OP if the mechanics were corrected. Did you just post and not read any of the posts above you? What say you to a proposed nerf I stated directly above you?

I am a Vamp

I PvP ALL the time

I am VR10

I have fought against unkillable vamps and killed them. Maybe take a second and think about it.

we not talking about 1 vs 1 here wise guy

it's easier to kill a vamp in 1 vs 1 than group vs 1

You naturally assumed I was 1v1 but I am a full Healer so no I did not NOR could I kill them 1v1.

How about my suggestions for a fix?

eisenheitb16_ESO

Your suggestion only fixes Bats Swarm.
Mist form STILL is a problem;