Can we segregate posts by pvp and pve please with a tag or something in the subject?

SilverBride · July 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I agree with the OP. If a post is specifically about PvP please state this in the subject line.

For example, "Templars are the worst class" has a very different meaning than "Templars are the worst class in PvP".

I don't care about PvP and don't want to read threads that are specifically addressing things in a PvP setting.

That doesn't seem fair unless we also have everything PvE related marked.

I believe that's the suggestion in the OP. There's enough overlap that I think it's unnecessary. The stuff that is purely pvp has it's own sub-forum anyway.

There is a PvP category but I have opened countless threads with the subject "Templar is the worst class" when they mean specifically for PvP, and "Performance is awful" when they are talking about in Cyrodiil, all in the General Forums.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

BlueRaven wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

@BlueRaven, okay, you don’t get it, so I’m gonna do my best to explain these things to you.
Cloak needs a ramp due to serious core issues with how it functions, for PvE too, it’s an unfair advantage with the justice system and for groups that don’t have a Nightblade to skip all of the adds in a dungeon for efficient speed farming.

DK is still the #1 Tank and DD in PvE, and needs a nerf for both forms of content, especially given the toxic PvE elitist mentality that forces people to meta chase or face exclusion from pinnacle content, and that is far worse than any other avenue of gameplay, including PvP.

Heals have persisted as a problem ever since Defile was nerfed initially, and it’s a much larger problem in PvE, people don’t want to play with healers in dungeons, ask yourself why, and if that’s fair to people that enjoy that playstyle.

Heavy attacks were fine; the only ones complaining about those were PvE elitists that want to sell content clears, players that enjoy PvP primarily want to be done with PvE as quickly as possible, heavy attack builds were a solution.

Nobody with their right mind likes the concept of Stealth Detection as a racial passive, where did you get this idea? People don’t crouch around in PvP, if a player is stealthing, they are cloaking and that Stealth Detection doesn’t pull cloaked players from stealth.

Now that we’ve gotten those misconceptions taken care of, let’s get to the second issue of yours…

What gameplay impacting content is trapped behind Cyrodiil? You can buy every PvP sourced set at guild traders. All of the lorebooks that were once exclusive to Cyrodiil are being duplicated and thrown into new chapter zones to just go pick up, I mean Blackwood alone has two right near Leyawiin. What was once an hour or two risky journey through Cyrodiil takes less than 5 minutes now. Mythic leads? None of which that are found in Cyrodiil are relevant in the PvE sandbox, mythics like Snowtreaders. Want the skyshards? There are more than enough skill points in the game to get everything and more, it isn’t essential to level AvA either. Everything that mattered or was exclusive to PvP has been moved from PvP or written off.

You want Alliance themed furnishings? But don’t want to fight for your alliance? Idle during an AP train and get to 5 stars like what every other non-interested PvE preferred player does.

Hopefully I’ve helped you understand a little better where everything, and the majority of us are at, and that helps you to stop vilifying players for their choice of content preference.

No.

If dks are the best tanks (debatable) it just means the other classes needs buffs. Ironically one class that does need a buff in tanking is nbs.

HAs were fine, you say? Only pvers were complaining about them? I brought receipts.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633956/heavy-attack-has-an-insane-bug-in-pvp-content/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/637399/dev-response-to-tri-focus-bug
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/637276/why-doesnt-she-fight-back

Oh nice, you brought receipts. Did you happen to look through them and did you see any patterns with the posts?

They were all in regards to a gamebreaking bug and had nothing to do with nerfing Heavy Attacks in PvE and anyone reading those comments, can tell by the name of the thread.

On the topic of receipts, Dragonknight doesn’t need a nerf? It’s just PvP complainers? Interesting theory. Let’s take a look at the top scores on EU for the Rockgrove trial.

Now I want you to count how many Dragonknights are on that leaderboard compared to any other class and then tell me how great that is for inclusion.

There are 7 classes in the game and only one of them is getting picked more than double the second best class.

Now you say, “Let’s talk about buffing, not nerfing”
That’s the real joke. When you have one outlier and the rest are closer to each other in comparison, you reduce the outlier and save yourself from having to tweak six other classes and potentially creating a new outlier in the process.

Not to mention your comment about Nightblade tanks needing a buff, that right there tells me you don’t do endgame PvE, or you just don’t grasp the entire concept of what supports do. Nightblade damage dealers need a buff, not supports.

Over the years, Nightblades have been consistently getting Major and Minor buffs and debuffs to their kit and each of them are AoE, there are only two other tank classes that have anywhere near the group utility as a Nightblade and that’s an Arcanist due to Minor Courage, or a Dragonknight which is the best tank and damage dealer class in the entire game for yet another patch.

Xandreia_ · July 2023

"It's pvp people" if you take the time to read most of the pvp posts we are ALWAYS asking zos to seperate pvp and pve, all they have to do is utilise the battle spirit debuff.

We "pvp people" aren't the root of all evil. And if I'm honest if you can't tell if a post is pvp or pve, that's a you issue.

Xandreia_ · July 2023

In addition, if we (pvp) started to talk about pve players the way you guys talk about us we would be getting screamed at lol pvp players have been trying to stop the whole community divide by asking zos to separate pvp and pve balance changes, instead of devaluing our requests you should be helping us bring this to zos' attention.

amig186 · July 2023

What for? You seem to already know that if someone complains or asks for nerfs, it's the pvp people. Pvp people. Sounds a bit like crab people.

BlueRaven · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

@BlueRaven, okay, you don’t get it, so I’m gonna do my best to explain these things to you.
Cloak needs a ramp due to serious core issues with how it functions, for PvE too, it’s an unfair advantage with the justice system and for groups that don’t have a Nightblade to skip all of the adds in a dungeon for efficient speed farming.

DK is still the #1 Tank and DD in PvE, and needs a nerf for both forms of content, especially given the toxic PvE elitist mentality that forces people to meta chase or face exclusion from pinnacle content, and that is far worse than any other avenue of gameplay, including PvP.

Heals have persisted as a problem ever since Defile was nerfed initially, and it’s a much larger problem in PvE, people don’t want to play with healers in dungeons, ask yourself why, and if that’s fair to people that enjoy that playstyle.

Heavy attacks were fine; the only ones complaining about those were PvE elitists that want to sell content clears, players that enjoy PvP primarily want to be done with PvE as quickly as possible, heavy attack builds were a solution.

Nobody with their right mind likes the concept of Stealth Detection as a racial passive, where did you get this idea? People don’t crouch around in PvP, if a player is stealthing, they are cloaking and that Stealth Detection doesn’t pull cloaked players from stealth.

Now that we’ve gotten those misconceptions taken care of, let’s get to the second issue of yours…

What gameplay impacting content is trapped behind Cyrodiil? You can buy every PvP sourced set at guild traders. All of the lorebooks that were once exclusive to Cyrodiil are being duplicated and thrown into new chapter zones to just go pick up, I mean Blackwood alone has two right near Leyawiin. What was once an hour or two risky journey through Cyrodiil takes less than 5 minutes now. Mythic leads? None of which that are found in Cyrodiil are relevant in the PvE sandbox, mythics like Snowtreaders. Want the skyshards? There are more than enough skill points in the game to get everything and more, it isn’t essential to level AvA either. Everything that mattered or was exclusive to PvP has been moved from PvP or written off.

You want Alliance themed furnishings? But don’t want to fight for your alliance? Idle during an AP train and get to 5 stars like what every other non-interested PvE preferred player does.

Hopefully I’ve helped you understand a little better where everything, and the majority of us are at, and that helps you to stop vilifying players for their choice of content preference.

No.

If dks are the best tanks (debatable) it just means the other classes needs buffs. Ironically one class that does need a buff in tanking is nbs.

HAs were fine, you say? Only pvers were complaining about them? I brought receipts.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633956/heavy-attack-has-an-insane-bug-in-pvp-content/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/637399/dev-response-to-tri-focus-bug
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/637276/why-doesnt-she-fight-back

Oh nice, you brought receipts. Did you happen to look through them and did you see any patterns with the posts?

They were all in regards to a gamebreaking bug and had nothing to do with nerfing Heavy Attacks in PvE and anyone reading those comments, can tell by the name of the thread.

On the topic of receipts, Dragonknight doesn’t need a nerf? It’s just PvP complainers? Interesting theory. Let’s take a look at the top scores on EU for the Rockgrove trial.

Now I want you to count how many Dragonknights are on that leaderboard compared to any other class and then tell me how great that is for inclusion.

There are 7 classes in the game and only one of them is getting picked more than double the second best class.

Now you say, “Let’s talk about buffing, not nerfing”
That’s the real joke. When you have one outlier and the rest are closer to each other in comparison, you reduce the outlier and save yourself from having to tweak six other classes and potentially creating a new outlier in the process.

Not to mention your comment about Nightblade tanks needing a buff, that right there tells me you don’t do endgame PvE, or you just don’t grasp the entire concept of what supports do. Nightblade damage dealers need a buff, not supports.

Over the years, Nightblades have been consistently getting Major and Minor buffs and debuffs to their kit and each of them are AoE, there are only two other tank classes that have anywhere near the group utility as a Nightblade and that’s an Arcanist due to Minor Courage, or a Dragonknight which is the best tank and damage dealer class in the entire game for yet another patch.

[snip]

Oh no! You found out my dark secret!

I

don't

do

endgame

PvE!

Thus all of my points have been invalidated!

However shall I survive the forums?

For as we all know, only people who participate in endgame PvE or PvP are allowed to speak!

***

As for myself I don't really care what you do in game. You can be a fantastic endgame pvp player (I guess?) or you can be the top endgame pver (I guess not), but it does not matter because the point still stands.

Apparently according to this thread alone, "Nightblades are the best tanks, but dks need a nerf, too tanky!" & "Nighblades need a nerf, too bursty! But they need a buff in dps." I mean the justification for everyone's nerfs all over the place.

Thread after thread after thread are PvP players asking for nerfs because they died in (gasp) PvP, where if things were perfectly balanced they should be dying 50% of the time anyway.

Rock says: "Nerf paper, scissors are fine." That is metaphorically the constant pvp discussions on these forums.

All you just did is show that in a particular instanced area other classes need buffs.
OR maybe that all of PvE endgame needs to be completely reworked to accommodate lower dps, because some random player is frustrated in PvP? Was that your point?

Oh and as for nb tanks,,,

Lykeion wrote: »

I am a pve NB player who mainly plays tanks. Maybe this is not a very popular choice, but we NB tank players do exist....

Everaen wrote: »

I recently started dabbling with tanks, and NB tank in particular just because I like NB's and never see NB tanks....

MacCait wrote: »

I've been a Nightblade Tank since the beginning. There was a time, long long ago when Nightblade Tanks were awesome fun in the SapTank days... those days are gone with so many hard hits to Nightblade Tanking...

Opalblade wrote: »

...Tankblade was so much more fun than the usual DK tanks, and it wasn't anywhere near being overpowered.

I am sure you can pull out some random encounter where nb tanks actually have a presence, but really nb tanks are rarely seen compared to other classes. But I guess your suggestion would be to "nerf every other class" I guess, so maybe I should just stop right there before you suggest even things to damage pve.

[edited to remove quote]

emilyhyoyeon · July 2023

I'm pretty sure this thread was originally in the PTS section and a PVE/PVP marker would be a lot more specifically helpful there than any other forum. Not sure why the mod moved the thread here.

Jierdanit · July 2023

Xandreia_ wrote: »

In addition, if we (pvp) started to talk about pve players the way you guys talk about us we would be getting screamed at lol pvp players have been trying to stop the whole community divide by asking zos to separate pvp and pve balance changes, instead of devaluing our requests you should be helping us bring this to zos' attention.

Yeah if PvP players started talking about PvE players the way they do about us most PvP players would probably get forum bans and suspensions.
I guess its not as bad if youre toxic towards PvP players for some reason (and its funny that PvE players still keep saying that the PvP side of the game is more toxic than anything else).

Grizzbeorn · July 2023

If they implement post tags for anything, I'd rather it be [PC] and [Console].

Enough people don't offer any indication of what platform they are on (like in their forum signature), and they just ask questions, or air complaints, and quite often it causes confusion because a lot of the responses they get, until they finally mention which platform they are talking about, are not relevant to their issue.

mocap · July 2023

There are a lot of posts on this forum where posters do not state literally anything about their question, like:
- pvp or pve
- type of pve (overland, dungeons, trials, solo)
- type of pvp (CP or Non CP)
- gear (BoP or BoE)
- role specifics (power healer, buff healer, tank healer, 3 dd capable etc)
- platform and server specifics

They just "What is the most OP build atm? Thank you!". The quality of questions asked on this forum is extremely low.

The_Lex · July 2023

Jierdanit wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

In addition, if we (pvp) started to talk about pve players the way you guys talk about us we would be getting screamed at lol pvp players have been trying to stop the whole community divide by asking zos to separate pvp and pve balance changes, instead of devaluing our requests you should be helping us bring this to zos' attention.

Yeah if PvP players started talking about PvE players the way they do about us most PvP players would probably get forum bans and suspensions.
I guess its not as bad if youre toxic towards PvP players for some reason (and its funny that PvE players still keep saying that the PvP side of the game is more toxic than anything else).

Honestly, this is what happens when ZOS consistently neglects the PvP community and favors another. The favored community smells blood in the water and gets a superiority complex which justifies marginalizing and attacking the less favored. It's social dynamics, really.

Marcus684 · July 2023

The only forum poster more angry than a PvPer that just died, is a PvEer that just had their DPS nerfed, although it's a pretty close call.

Rowjoh · July 2023

PVE and PVP are inter-linked in many ways, thus forum threads often contain facets of both formats.

Also there are dedicated forum sections for PVP-only related topics.

DrNukenstein · July 2023

All posts complaining about class/combat qualities are pvp posts.

If it's not about how much better class x is at beating class y in a fight, it's about how much better class x is at clearing content than class y.

Simple answer is to make PVP your primary endgame and do PVE to fuel your PVP builds.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

DrNukenstein wrote: »

All posts complaining about class/combat qualities are pvp posts.

If it's not about how much better class x is at beating class y in a fight, it's about how much better class x is at clearing content than class y.

Simple answer is to make PVP your primary endgame and do PVE to fuel your PVP builds.

That is the original model for ESO. Players from the beta can tell you that this game was sold as a PvP game first and foremost, with a focus on Cyrodiil.

You’re literally factioned when making a character and that has no relevance to PvE.

Not to say PvE hasn’t become something fun with the inclusion of Undaunted and the addition of Craglorn with it’s Trials and all of the following ones, there’s just only so much fun you can have with PvE when all spawns and mechanics are exactly the same every time you run the content.

Which is why you’ve seen so many people beg for an updated Overland. There are so many people that are beginning to realize that most PvE content is fun the first time you do it, whereas there is this massive continent that provides next-to-no difficulty which takes away the feeling of rewarding gameplay.

Let’s be honest, how many Godslayers or Swashbucklers will take the time to help other groups prog? There’s no fun in it.

Twig_Garlicshine · July 2023

DrNukenstein wrote: »

All posts complaining about class/combat qualities are pvp posts.

If it's not about how much better class x is at beating class y in a fight, it's about how much better class x is at clearing content than class y.

Simple answer is to make PVP your primary endgame and do PVE to fuel your PVP builds.

All PvErs are closeted PvPers going by how much time they spend PvPing on teh forums.

Personally, I think players should tag by their PC/Console flavours as the game is very different based on that.
PC = way more auto play, and directed play.
In PC Tamriel, we are all daily crafting bots, bank bots, vendor bots, dungeon and raid bots who do exactly what we are told and when to do it by our gods
-> the Great Pantheon of All Knowing Mighty Addons.

Beilin_Balreis_Colcan · July 2023

What happened to just using common sense in thread titles and bodies ?

AlwaysDancing · July 2023

vsrs_au wrote: »

What happened to just using common sense in thread titles and bodies ?

Common sense is very rare, in both PvP and PvE.

M0ntie · July 2023

The reason why there needs to be a tag in the subject for the topic is often it isn’t clear from the subject and since ZoS made the different forum threads people search in Recent Discussions. Using these forums on a mobile phone interface it doesn’t show which topic they are under.
It needs to say PVP, PVE, TOT, General, PTS or similar short code for the thread next to the topic.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

M0ntie wrote: »

The reason why there needs to be a tag in the subject for the topic is often it isn’t clear from the subject and since ZoS made the different forum threads people search in Recent Discussions. Using these forums on a mobile phone interface it doesn’t show which topic they are under.
It needs to say PVP, PVE, TOT, General, PTS or similar short code for the thread next to the topic.

Earlier in the thread, the issues been summarized pretty well. If threads start having tags like “PvE” there are going to be a lot of changes to PvP that blindside them, and vice versa.