Eventually you get a sense on if theyre talking about pve or pvp but yeah it'd be helpful if people mentioned which theyre talking about (or both) in their posts at least.

LunaFlora wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

Who exactly are "pvp people"?

people that primarily/only pvp

The way it's worded sounded like OP is classifying us as a sub-class.

KainedED wrote: »

If you can’t distinguish a conversation on the games mechanics based on the posters intention, that seems more like user error.

The idea would be to find harmony between all aspects of the game where we can try and reach a point where everyone is having a good time.

Segregation and the “ othering “ of groups of people has and will always lead to one thing, the immediate and gradual devaluation of another group. That doesn't sound conducive to a welcoming and friendly community.

Would be nice to see all groups of ESO come together over the game they feel passionate about instead of building little tribes.

It's also good to be knowledgeable about both aspects of the game, even if you're only participating in one, because the metas are intrinsically linked.

Sure, not every PvE set or skill is going to be good in PvP and vice versa, but generally when something good starts to pop up with a high use rate in one, something similar will pop up in the other (if not the same set/skill/etc).

As an aside, OP is clearly biased in saying that every complaint post is a PvPer. I count 4 or 5 "complaint" posts on the front page of this section of the forums alone that are PvE related - and that's OK. These forums are literally made for people to discuss the game and bring up issues they have.

No, he's right.

If I look at other game forums.GW2, WoW or FFXIV, the forum's have more sub categories and better labelled.

Instead, we get green text about a post being dragged into a folder of moderator choice.

Either the forum outlay is poorly designed, or this game draws more innatentive people that others. Which is the more realistic answer?

On the other point, it's good to know about it both sides of combat. Not necessarily. It's Reasonable to assume there are going to be people who only care about a specific mode, and do not want to read, or bother interpreting a post to determine whether something applies to them.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

There's also the fact that there isn't a clear PvP/PvE split in the game. All sets can be used in all modes.

Tell that to the players who used Plaguebreak.

The_Lex wrote: »

Who exactly are "pvp people"?

They are the ones making threads and complaining about Nbs, Dks, Sorcs, Wardens, Templars, and any other class or spec that dared kill them in pvp.

They are the ones that made tanks have basically no dps in PvE, so they could not do overland quests anymore. (making them even more scarce.)

They are the ones that sapped the fun out of two hander "uppercut", and made snipe almost pointless in pve.

They are the ones continually complaining about HA builds, cloak, heals, bows, stealth, and what feels like every other game mechanic.

And they are the ones who seem surprised that all of those mechanics are also used in pve, and still don't care when that is pointed out to them (and that includes cloak).

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

@BlueRaven, those same “PvP people” are also running PvE content to get sets that are trapped in dungeons, arenas and trials, if you were up to date, you would know that arena weapons have been extremely desirable of late, which comes from the hardest PvE content in the game. For most people wanting to compete, they need to get those weapons.

When one form of content is on life support, of course you’re going to hear the loudest outcry from people that primarily play that. It’s kind of weird to try to bundle people up into groups though, especially when each element of the game interacts with everything else in one fashion or another.

Can you tell that last part to the pvp crowd please?

The people who post thread after thread about ramping up costs for cloak?
The ones that keep calling for dk nerfs?
The ones that keep calling heals being too strong?
The ones that make thread after thread complaining about HA builds?
The ones that think “stealth detect” is a great racial passive and don’t want it changed, even though it plays no role in pve?

Can you tell them to consider how their proposed changes affects pve? Because they don’t seem to care.

And also while we are at it, there are non pvp items and rewards locked behind pvp activities. So you can stop thinking that only PvPer are the ones that have to suffer going into an area they don’t want to be in.

Lol Tyrant Tim.
Blue Raven has nailed it.
So sick of thread after thread by PVPers demanding changes with no consideration or knowledge of PVE. And so sick of nerfs that wreck things for PVE because of PVPers whinging.
Not vilifying people because of their game choice, but rather their lack of consideration for others.,

BlueRaven wrote: »

Can you tell that last part to the pvp crowd please?

The people who post thread after thread about ramping up costs for cloak?
The ones that keep calling for dk nerfs?
The ones that keep calling heals being too strong?
The ones that make thread after thread complaining about HA builds?
The ones that think “stealth detect” is a great racial passive and don’t want it changed, even though it plays no role in pve?

Just because the garbage balance in this game doesnt affect your gameplay negatively doesnt mean it doesnt need to be changed.

Cloak should have some mechanic attached that makes it less spammable, but that could easily be attached to something like Battlespirit making it only apply to PvP, although almost no one in PvE is ever gonna seriously suffer from a ramping cloak cost.

DKs are considerably stronger than any other class (at least in PvP, but from the little i know about PvE it seems like theyre the strongest there too). That could either be changed by buffing other classes up to a point where they are similarly strong, or by nerfing stuff like Corrosive Armor which makes DK absolutely op in PvP and is hardly used in PvE content.

PvP heals are too strong, though that is mainly referencing cross heals, another thing that could easily be changed in a way that basically does not impact PvE, for example by only allowing max 2 instances of the same heal on 1 person (and if that isnt enough for you it could even be added to Battle Spirit).

From what i have seen on the forums the people who mainly complain about HA builds are PvE players who are complaining that they make difficult content too accessible. The main complaint about them for PvP is that Trifocus damage is way too high when procced on NPCs in PvP areas, which should definitely be a bug.

I have never seen a single serious PvP player say that stealth detect is a great racial passives, please stop inventing stuff just to make your arguments sound better.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Can you tell them to consider how their proposed changes affects pve? Because they don’t seem to care.

I dont think any PvP player is asking for all those changes to be applied to PvE too, both PvP and PvE players have been asking for ZOS to seperately balance the two for ages. Dont blame the players who want their gameplay to be enjoyable, blame the company that isnt capable of making it enjoyable for everyone even though people have told them how to do it multiple times.

BlueRaven wrote: »

And also while we are at it, there are non pvp items and rewards locked behind pvp activities. So you can stop thinking that only PvPer are the ones that have to suffer going into an area they don’t want to be in.

Every single piece of gear you can get from PvP content, except for the monster sets you get from IC bosses are Bind on Equip so you can easily buy them in guild stores and the monster sets require basically no PvP, since outside of Mayhem no one is PvPing in IC anyways.
On the other hand you have Mythic Items, Dungeon Sets, including Monster Sets, Arena Sets and Trial Sets, which all require you to do PvE content to get them since they are Bound on Pickup.
PvP players have to do considerably more PvE content to get the stuff they need than PvE players have to do PvP.

M0ntie wrote: »

Lol Tyrant Tim.
Blue Raven has nailed it.
So sick of thread after thread by PVPers demanding changes with no consideration or knowledge of PVE. And so sick of nerfs that wreck things for PVE because of PVPers whinging.
Not vilifying people because of their game choice, but rather their lack of consideration for others.,

So you not wanting things that negatively impact PvP players, because they are too strong or too weak changed because it doesnt impact you is okay, but if something is negatively impacting you it and not negatively impacting PvP players anymore its a lack of consideration?

Its great how you have such a lack of consideration for PvP players, that you are straight up insulting them just because they want their gameplay to be enjoyable lol

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

No, he's right.

If I look at other game forums.GW2, WoW or FFXIV, the forum's have more sub categories and better labelled.

Instead, we get green text about a post being dragged into a folder of moderator choice.

Either the forum outlay is poorly designed, or this game draws more innatentive people that others. Which is the more realistic answer?

On the other point, it's good to know about it both sides of combat. Not necessarily. It's Reasonable to assume there are going to be people who only care about a specific mode, and do not want to read, or bother interpreting a post to determine whether something applies to them.

The main forum already has separate subsections for PVP.

The PTS subforum does not, which is where y'all are complaining.

Given that the PTS forum is more for ZOS' benefit than the entertainment of forum posters, I expect that unless ZOS wants PVP and PVE feedback separated, it'll remain mixed in with all the other non-megathread general PTS feedback.


Edited to add: I think something y'all are overlooking is the idea a "PVP" tag means that PVE players are going to glide right over that feedback thread and then act shocked, just shocked when the Devs later say "Hey, we're not satisfied with how X, Y, and Z is performing in PVP so we nerfed it." And then you rush to tell the Devs about how that impacts PVE. But its too late, so its time to blame PVPers for giving their feedback earlier.

Ironically, a major benefit to having mixed feedback like this is the devs are more likely to get viewpoints from ardent PVEers and PVPers both.

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

I thought all forum posts were PvP

Everything but housing 😉

BlueRaven wrote: »

You posted a lot of things that danced around the issues but still lacked understanding of them.

For example, the above highlighted section.

I said “And also while we are at it, there are non pvp items and rewards locked behind pvp activities. So you can stop thinking that only PvPer are the ones that have to suffer going into an area they don’t want to be in.”

Notice I did not say “gear”. So, you wanna try that response again? (Here is a hint: The items I am referring to cannot traded with another player nor sold on a guild vendor.)

Funny how you completely ignored the fact that i said you could make all those changes just in PvP without affecting PvE at all.

Also even if you are talking about Achievements and other non tradeable things you can get from PvP there is still a way bigger amount of the same things in PvE.

BlueRaven wrote: »

And again the callous oblivious nature of “I know better than you about what you need” of these pvp threads. “although almost no one in PvE is ever gonna seriously suffer from a ramping cloak cost”. Really? Really??

Yes Really! Cloak has 0 use in endgame PvE and is basically only used for thieves guild and dark brotherhood content or other sneaking, which is an absolute minimal part of PvE in general.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Don’t want to do pve to get mythic items? Then don’t use mythic items. because “almost no one in PvP is ever gonna seriously suffer from not having mythic items.”

See how that works? Any pve gear set, any ability, for pvp can be equally dismissed.

It is beyond ridiculous that you think that is similar in any way. Probably 3/4 or more of the builds in PvP are going to include a Mythic Item. So yes tons of PvP players would seriously suffer from not having mythic items.

Stop acting like 5% of PvE players not being capable to skip mobs or have an easier time thieveing is the same as 75+% of PvP players not having a proper build.
Players not being able to properly play the game because of atrocious balance is a bigger issue than other players being slightly inconvenienced while questing because they now need 12 seconds instead of 10 to kill their enemies with the same skill (not saying that is not an issue at all, just that you need to somehow see that its not just needless crying for nerfs).

BlueRaven wrote: »

“Corrosive Armor which makes DK absolutely op in PvP and is hardly used in PvE content.”
…. Unbelievable.

To be honest i dont know in what situations Corrosive is used in PvE, so if it is a big part i apologize.

Also again I said multiple times that i am against ZOS balancing PvP and PvE together and would rather they took both seperately, which would not hurt PvE in any way. So, you wanna try that response again? (Here is a hint: Stop being a condescending jerk )

Jierdanit wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

You posted a lot of things that danced around the issues but still lacked understanding of them.

For example, the above highlighted section.

I said “And also while we are at it, there are non pvp items and rewards locked behind pvp activities. So you can stop thinking that only PvPer are the ones that have to suffer going into an area they don’t want to be in.”

Notice I did not say “gear”. So, you wanna try that response again? (Here is a hint: The items I am referring to cannot traded with another player nor sold on a guild vendor.)

Funny how you completely ignored the fact that i said you could make all those changes just in PvP without affecting PvE at all.

Also even if you are talking about Achievements and other non tradeable things you can get from PvP there is still a way bigger amount of the same things in PvE.

BlueRaven wrote: »

And again the callous oblivious nature of “I know better than you about what you need” of these pvp threads. “although almost no one in PvE is ever gonna seriously suffer from a ramping cloak cost”. Really? Really??

Yes Really! Cloak has 0 use in endgame PvE and is basically only used for thieves guild and dark brotherhood content or other sneaking, which is an absolute minimal part of PvE in general.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Don’t want to do pve to get mythic items? Then don’t use mythic items. because “almost no one in PvP is ever gonna seriously suffer from not having mythic items.”

See how that works? Any pve gear set, any ability, for pvp can be equally dismissed.

It is beyond ridiculous that you think that is similar in any way. Probably 3/4 or more of the builds in PvP are going to include a Mythic Item. So yes tons of PvP players would seriously suffer from not having mythic items.

Stop acting like 5% of PvE players not being capable to skip mobs or have an easier time thieveing is the same as 75+% of PvP players not having a proper build.
Players not being able to properly play the game because of atrocious balance is a bigger issue than other players being slightly inconvenienced while questing because they now need 12 seconds instead of 10 to kill their enemies with the same skill (not saying that is not an issue at all, just that you need to somehow see that its not just needless crying for nerfs).

BlueRaven wrote: »

“Corrosive Armor which makes DK absolutely op in PvP and is hardly used in PvE content.”
…. Unbelievable.

To be honest i dont know in what situations Corrosive is used in PvE, so if it is a big part i apologize.

Also again I said multiple times that i am against ZOS balancing PvP and PvE together and would rather they took both seperately, which would not hurt PvE in any way. So, you wanna try that response again? (Here is a hint: Stop being a condescending jerk )

I ignored it because you ignored it. (See the original cloak and corrosive armor changes comments). And for that matter the whole follow up post ignores it (see “cloak is not used in endgame pve, so who cares what we do to it” comment).

Just stop thinking you can make wholesale changes to abilities and think pve will be just fine. Or it does not matter. Or whatever argument you are coming up with to justify not thinking too hard about the changes you want to make and the ramifications it has to other parts of the game.

You want to have mythics also drop in pvp? I don’t care because it does not change pve.
Want easier access to dungeon sets in pvp, I don’t care it also does not affect pve.
But saying “x ability needs dramatic changes” and not thinking about the ramifications to the whole game is exactly the problem people have with pvp threads.

I think a lot of the problems is that people try and use click bait style title, like DEVS YOU MUST FIX THIS.

Rather than putting; I’m having issues with x in y here is my solution

kargen27 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I agree with the OP. If a post is specifically about PvP please state this in the subject line.

For example, "Templars are the worst class" has a very different meaning than "Templars are the worst class in PvP".

I don't care about PvP and don't want to read threads that are specifically addressing things in a PvP setting.

That doesn't seem fair unless we also have everything PvE related marked.

I believe that's the suggestion in the OP. There's enough overlap that I think it's unnecessary. The stuff that is purely pvp has it's own sub-forum anyway.