Tales of Tribute turn timer is too forgiving, should be more dynamic to avoid intentional stalling

peacenote · September 2022

Maybe some kind of personal speed bonus? You get 5 gold or one transmute every time your turn is 20 seconds or less?

A carrot instead of a stick that wouldn't upset the balance of the actual match?

SeaGtGruff · September 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

...I imagine that the devs gave a good deal of thought to what length of time to allow, given that during some of the early streams where the card game was being announced and discussed the dev in the stream mentioned how there were a lot of matches being played between the devs at the office during development, so I'd think they settled on a length of time that was "not too long and not too short."

They may not have realized that some players would use this to troll their opponent and try to force them to concede.

Also, this would not work if 90 seconds of inactivity wasn't really too long for most players to tolerate turn after turn. But it is.

I still think it would be bad to punish everyone by substantially decreasing the timer just because a few players are perceived to be abusing it as a way of trolling their opponents.

A better solution might be to simply report the person for abusing the timer as a form of trolling their opponents. Given that everything in the game is (reportedly) logged, it shouldn't be too difficult for ZOS to examine the logs from the match, as well as from other matches that the reported player was in, to determine whether they were indeed abusing the timer and whether it's a common tactic for that player.

SilverBride · September 2022

@SeaGtGruff

I don't want to punish anyone, and I don't want to make the game unplayable for some who are unable to play faster. I just want trolling by timer to stop.

Another poster in a different thread about slow players suggested an optional fast mode. I don't know how they could make this work but it's something to think about. They could have normal mode then fast track where the timer is limited to 45 to 60 seconds.

SeaGtGruff · September 2022

Like a veteran versus normal queue? That could work.

SilverBride · September 2022

Yes, something like that would be great. I'm not sure how having two modes would work with the Rubedite rankings, but the game itself wouldn't be any more difficult. Maybe it could be a factor in matching players.

I want to add that I like your idea about reporting, too. I'm not sure how they would deal with a player who is shown to be doing this just to troll.

SeaGtGruff · September 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

Yes, something like that would be great. I'm not sure how having two modes would work with the Rubedite rankings, but the game itself wouldn't be any more difficult. Maybe it could be a factor in matching players.

I want to add that I like your idea about reporting, too. I'm not sure how they would deal with a player who is shown to be doing this just to troll.

Assuming it's possible to determine that a given player is frequently and deliberately letting the timer run out on every turn of a match as a form of trolling their opponent, a social ban would probably be the most appropriate punishment-- assuming that a social ban would prevent the player from queuing for matches against other players. As I understand it, a social ban usually lasts for a few days and then ends-- although I admit that I have no experience with those, so I might be mistaken. A brief ban on being able to play against other players might be enough to discourage the player from regularly engaging in that behavior.

newtinmpls · September 2022

I struggle in timed matches.

Yes, I'm good enough that I win against most NPC's which was NOT the case, so good for me I have a learning curve.

I also have a life, and don't have any of the fancy decks, so I need the time to consider what the heck I am trying to do before I get smeared by the other player (yeah I'm in that frustrating skill point where NPC's are "too easy" and actual players are usually way too difficult).

Please don't speed them up.

newtinmpls · September 2022

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I felt like they were deliberately trolling me because there was a point earlier in the game when they could have won by <example deleted>

There are a lot of odd tweaks, especially with some of the patrons that are NOT obvious to people (like me) who do not play competitively and do NOT instantly research videos to min-max.

I also find it slightly humorous that having to wait a full minute and a half is occasionally being referred to on this thread as torturous.

Waiting 15 min for a Battlegrounds that turned out to be 4v4v1 is annoying.

These are all very first wold problems. If you are bored - then read a book in between turns. It might help.

SilverBride · September 2022

newtinmpls wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I felt like they were deliberately trolling me because there was a point earlier in the game when they could have won by <example deleted>

There are a lot of odd tweaks, especially with some of the patrons that are NOT obvious to people (like me) who do not play competitively and do NOT instantly research videos to min-max.

I also find it slightly humorous that having to wait a full minute and a half is occasionally being referred to on this thread as torturous.

Waiting 15 min for a Battlegrounds that turned out to be 4v4v1 is annoying.

These are all very first wold problems. If you are bored - then read a book in between turns. It might help.

Sitting and doing nothing for a full 90 seconds turn after turn is not humorous and can create anxiety for a lot of people. It also drags the game out twice as long as it would normally be.

Reading a book between plays is not even remotely feasible for a card game. I use the time my opponent is playing to figure out my moves so I am ready when it's my turn and not holding up the game.

This is a real problem for a lot of players and finding a solution that works for everyone is the main goal here.

newtinmpls · September 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

Sitting and doing nothing for a full 90 seconds turn after turn is not humorous and can create anxiety for a lot of people.

<snip>

Reading a book between plays is not even remotely feasible for a card game.

<snip>

I use the time my opponent is playing to figure out my moves.

If you are figuring out your moves, then you are not "doing nothing".

If you are tech savvy enough to own a gaming setup (computer, console, whatever) I find it highly unlikely that you do not own a phone, hence the option to read (or tweet, or whatever flavor of social media is your preference). Just as with peeps waiting for a bus, a line in a store or some other unavoidable delay, there are options, if you choose to use them.

Or you may choose otherwise.

SilverBride · September 2022

newtinmpls wrote: »

If you are figuring out your moves, then you are not "doing nothing".

If you are tech savvy enough to own a gaming setup (computer, console, whatever) I find it highly unlikely that you do not own a phone, hence the option to read (or tweet, or whatever flavor of social media is your preference). Just as with peeps waiting for a bus, a line in a store or some other unavoidable delay, there are options, if you choose to use them.

Or you may choose otherwise.

Figuring out my moves only takes a few seconds.

If I am playing a game of ToT it's because I want to play a game of ToT, not tweet or read or anything else.

Waiting around while my opponent just sits there is not a necessary unavoidable delay such as waiting in line in a store. It is often a deliberate act to try to get the other player to concede.

SeaGtGruff · September 2022

newtinmpls wrote: »

I struggle in timed matches.

Yes, I'm good enough that I win against most NPC's which was NOT the case, so good for me I have a learning curve.

I also have a life, and don't have any of the fancy decks, so I need the time to consider what the heck I am trying to do before I get smeared by the other player (yeah I'm in that frustrating skill point where NPC's are "too easy" and actual players are usually way too difficult).

Please don't speed them up.

I haven't played any PvP matches in weeks, although I imagine I'll get back to them eventually. One thing I enjoy about NPC matches is the lack of a timer, because sometimes I need to study the board a bit before deciding how to begin my move, and as my move progresses I might need to study the board a bit more in response to changes in the tavern plus any combos I'd gotten earlier in my turn. In extreme cases it isn't unheard of for a move to take longer than 2 minutes.

aenarel · October 2022

I refuse to just concede, but playing against stallers completely obliterates the fun of it.

Why not have 30 seconds per turn, plus a 90 second reserve that can be used up for the whole game and increases by 2 seconds per combo. This way, one can think longer for a couple of turns, but consist stalling will be limited.

aenarel · October 2022

Or rather, 30 seconds + 2 seconds per combo for each turn, plus a reserve of 90 seconds for the few difficult decisions one might encounter.