I will literally stop playing Templar because of the Jabs animation changes. I have really hard set muscle memory for the current jabs and I just can't get it on PTS. The animation doesn't work for medium attacks like I used to on Live. It might be seem small, but I just don't want to learn a new Jabs.

I was comfortable with my 50k dps build and it dropping to 30k dps and being tough to complete vet dungeons just makes me say I'm done when this goes live. Already canceled my subscription.

Marto wrote: »

Jabs/Sweeps is an AoE ability, and Sweeps heals you for a pretty considerable amount.

That alone makes it a lot stronger than most spammable abilities in the game. Arguably too strong. If you had asked me before PTS, I would have told you burning light needed a 50% damage nerf. Instead, it got a ~66% nerf (and a buff in the sense other abilities can proc it now)

Not every fight is single-target. I think it's foolish to judge how good or bad a skill is by looking at single-target damage.

Jabs/Sweeps is not useless. It's not even inferior to other spammables. It's just situational. And in those situations it will perform far better than anything else in the game.

It's fine for an ability to be useful for 75% of content, instead of 100% of content.

Only one morph heals you and they significantly nerfed that.

Healing from damage of a melee skill isn't overpowered since you're close to the boss and their possible one-shot cleaves. Plus Pale Order ring exists and makes this effect non-unique to Templar anymore.

The synergy of burst in PvP and DPS in PvE with Jabs/Burning Light has been pretty much the only reason stamina Templar was used in any context whatsoever. That is now gutted.

Spammables are dedicated to consistent single target damage output. Sweeps and Jabs have never done any notable AoE damage since Burning Light has a cooldown and the cleave from the skill itself is laughable at best.

Nobody wants their Burning Light procs hitting random mobs when they're trying to damage the boss.

The point is, Templar has only recently been a consistent choice for PvE damage-dealing but that seems to be short-lived.

Yet another change to a skill that has had more tweaks and animation bugs than any other in the game, especially compared to all other spammables.

Back to group support I guess.

I think Jabs is probably being nerfed due to its performance in PVP. One of the simplest burst combos to pull off and its very effective.

But right when theyre upping DoT timers and making spammables more important for every class in the game, it doesnt make sense to me to be gutting and nerfing the spammables of many classes at the same time. Sorc, templar, warden. Maybe im missing a class here?

Imo if they want combat to be half casting spammables, each class should have at least 3 unique, worthwhile spammables to cast during rotation, rather than this approach to nerfing class spammables, ruining class identity to the point wherein more than one class will be running weapon spammables U35.

As a sorc main who is no longer a sorc main with this patch, i feel for you.

I really hope that the new OP resto heavy attacks will go live, because that's the only thing that could save this class. And they fit thematically, the holy light and self-healing that scales with damage done.

FlamingBeard wrote: »

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

I think Jabs is probably being nerfed due to its performance in PVP. One of the simplest burst combos to pull off and its very effective.

But right when theyre upping DoT timers and making spammables more important for every class in the game, it doesnt make sense to me to be gutting and nerfing the spammables of many classes at the same time. Sorc, templar, warden. Maybe im missing a class here?

Imo if they want combat to be half casting spammables, each class should have at least 3 unique, worthwhile spammables to cast during rotation, rather than this approach to nerfing class spammables, ruining class identity to the point wherein more than one class will be running weapon spammables U35.

As a sorc main who is no longer a sorc main with this patch, i feel for you.

Jabs and sweeps were good, but Templar always needed that melee burst rotation to threaten enemies in PvP to compensate for its abysmal escape speed.

Having no mobility (similar to DK) was always fine as a trade-off for having good tankiness and a high burst melee-range PvP rotation.

This update is just looking like a steaming pile.

It's also worth mentioning that our tankines can be matched by nearly every class these days, except maybe sorc.
However our upfront burst entirely relies on using an ultimate, where most classes dont.
Also worth noting, that if someone eats a full channel of jabs, than it hurts for sure, but its really not that hard to avoid that.
Even in open field, simply circling around the templar, or rolling or walking thru them can make them miss multiple ticks on jabs.
With this and the burning light nerf, people will be able to just face tank jabs like its nothing, and templars go absolutely nothing to compensate for the loss of damage.
Also major evasion still affects jabs, so it doing the same damage as other single target melee spammables really leaves the skill in the gutter for pvp.

Runkorko wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

I think Jabs is probably being nerfed due to its performance in PVP. One of the simplest burst combos to pull off and its very effective.

But right when theyre upping DoT timers and making spammables more important for every class in the game, it doesnt make sense to me to be gutting and nerfing the spammables of many classes at the same time. Sorc, templar, warden. Maybe im missing a class here?

Imo if they want combat to be half casting spammables, each class should have at least 3 unique, worthwhile spammables to cast during rotation, rather than this approach to nerfing class spammables, ruining class identity to the point wherein more than one class will be running weapon spammables U35.

As a sorc main who is no longer a sorc main with this patch, i feel for you.

Jabs and sweeps were good, but Templar always needed that melee burst rotation to threaten enemies in PvP to compensate for its abysmal escape speed.

Having no mobility (similar to DK) was always fine as a trade-off for having good tankiness and a high burst melee-range PvP rotation.

This update is just looking like a steaming pile.

Elude =prety muck 24/7 30% speed in pvp.
You can also run Race Against Time or Quick Cloak
I do agree that BJ changes are BS, but templar can be very mobile class

30% movespeed doesnt cut it in pvp anymore.
Come to PcEu, even 60k hp tanks run around in full swift, celerity cp etc.
Being able to run fast doesnt make much of a difference in escaping anyway. All it takes is a couple of people who can gap close spam or match your speed.

Jabs is not really a quick burst ability btw, I don't know what builds people run that get deleted by jabs, but I pretty much never struggle against it on any class.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Templar spamable - hits multiple targets, heals, and the new animation is not bad.

Nightblades spamable -(It was news to me that they had one tbh). Hits one target, does not heal, and the animation is of a guy jumping up and down.

My nb would take a Templar like one any day.

That's a pretty disingenuous way to compare the two
Nb spammable is instant cast, doesnt have to be targeted, templar spammable isn't guaranteed crit, or sets the target off balance or applies sundered or procs armor buff..
See? 2 can play that game.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Templar spamable - hits multiple targets, heals, and the new animation is not bad.

Nightblades spamable -(It was news to me that they had one tbh). Hits one target, does not heal, and the animation is of a guy jumping up and down.

My nb would take a Templar like one any day.

That's a pretty disingenuous way to compare the two
Nb spammable is instant cast, doesnt have to be targeted, templar spammable isn't guaranteed crit, or sets the target off balance or applies sundered or procs armor buff..
See? 2 can play that game.

I would take the Templar ability any day. Any. Day.

The only class ability I use on my nb is cloak. And only when I am out questing and by myself.

Then do it? NB and Templar are my two mains, and Surprise attack completely outclasses jabs in every way on the PTS.

And if you're not using any class abilities as a NB, that's your choice. But there are some very good ones, so that may be why you feel templars are so much better, you're not getting full effectiveness out of your NB.

That's make me feel sad.

A further eso sabbatical is comming.

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Goodbye ESO.

Yeah, it's goodbye for me as well.

Vahndamme wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Templar spamable - hits multiple targets, heals, and the new animation is not bad.

Nightblades spamable -(It was news to me that they had one tbh). Hits one target, does not heal, and the animation is of a guy jumping up and down.

My nb would take a Templar like one any day.

Funny as we're going to a NB meta. Like honestly, everybody and their <snip> is telling me to go NB instead of Templar. Cuz well templar spammable now hits like a wet noodle and looks like a noodle.

Yeah. Seems like NB only one thats gonna get out of this patch cycle unscathed. It will definitely be top dog for a patch cycle. Then ZOS will nerf NB so hard it wont see the light of day for another couple patch cycles. Tis the way of ZOS.

Firstmep wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Templar isn't dead. Just play rangedplar and run Dark Flare. You can still get decent parse with it .

Yeah good luck losing dps over being forced to medium weave dark flare now.

Medium Weaving is bad move. Empower should be only fully charged heavy attacks or channeled heavy attacks. Medium Weaving has made it even harder for lower skill players to parse well. Having it on fully charged heavy attacks will also make spammables relevant again. That being said not every class has easy access to Empower. Poor Warden's not only did they get nerfed but they can't even get the buff needed to parse well. Feels bad.