Deathmatch Battlegrounds Urgently Needed

sabresandiego_ESO · May 2021

Deathmatch is by far the most popular game mode, and DM players who are forced into objectives simply DM anyways and ruin the match for objective players. This makes battlegrounds unfun for everybody involved. There are a few solutions to the problem without splitting the BG playerbase too much.

Option 1: Simply add a deathmatch only que. This would split the playerbase further because there would be a third or fourth type of que.

Option 2: Make the group que DM, and leave the solo que as it is. This wouldn't split the playerbase any further, but would make group objective players unhappy

You can't please everybody, but with the system the way it is right now it makes for terrible games where half the players ignore the objective and matches are terrible.

Fischblut · May 2021

I would love Deathmatch queue back into BGs too! :'(

Few days ago I felt the great urge to play Battlegrounds again. After 6 matches, I asked myself: "What are you doing with your time? Is "Domination", "Crazy King" and "Capture the Relic" so fun that you keep queueing match after match?.."

So I stopped queueing, and returned to PvE tasks.

ESO_Nightingale · May 2021

I hate every mode other than deathmatch or chaosball. I hate capture the relic the most. I don't want to que into it ever again.

divnyi · May 2021

At this point high-MMR group BGs just goes deathmatch. It is considered a bad tone to even touch objectives, because it reduces game length.

This says a lot about decision to remove deathmatch queue.

nihoumab14_ESO · May 2021

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I hate every mode other than deathmatch or chaosball. I hate capture the relic the most. I don't want to que into it ever again.

Capture the relic would be more fun if it were 1 team vs 1 team, not a 3 way match. Domination works ok as a 3 way match, but I think most maps could use slightly less nodes to fight over and also need to be smaller overall for this to work. This would almost certainly require maps designed around these different match types though.

Chaosball is fun, but some maps feel too small for chaos ball, and others too big for it.

I think what Deathmatch needs more than anything though is to have the same no proc sets treatment as Cyro. Otherwise I'll continue to leave deathmatch games. It's no fun getting bursted down in a few seconds because someones burst damage proc went off

divnyi · May 2021

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I hate every mode other than deathmatch or chaosball. I hate capture the relic the most. I don't want to que into it ever again.

Best relic game I had was when I was in duo and we agreed with the whole team to deathmatch at the start of the game, went one team, wiped em clean, took relic, went with it to other team, did like 3 minutes of a deathmatch there too. Didn't capture even a single flag but provoked a lot of juicy combat there.

gariondavey · May 2021

Option 2

Fischblut · May 2021

At this point high-MMR group BGs just goes deathmatch. It is considered a bad tone to even touch objectives, because it reduces game length.

I like deathmatches, but I dislike this as high MMR player

There are still things like Random BG daily rewards, which go only to first or second team. It's not fun to spend 15 minutes just to finish on third place cause the team wasn't doing objectives.

divnyi · May 2021

Fischblut wrote: »

There are still things like Random BG daily rewards, which go only to first or second team. It's not fun to spend 15 minutes just to finish on third place cause the team wasn't doing objectives.

They give so little that I don't even bother to deliberately finish the quests. And anyway, soloQ is objectives queue, can try to finish those quests there.

IMO that daily quests are also very unbalanced. Compare 1k personal contribution (can be done in 1 game), 5 games (duh, 5 games), and 3 wins (with 3 teams, 33% chance avg = 9 games).

ArzyeL · May 2021

We need Deathmatch queues badly. Or at least a separate Chaosball & Relic Queue so i can ignore it completely. As it stands now Chaosball and Relic matches are instant quit. I prefer the 5 min wait.

MurderMostFoul · May 2021

@ZOS_GinaBruno

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is an overwhelming deemphasis of actual PvP combat in BGs due to the gross overabundance of objective modes which reward the avoidance of fights. ZOS please, give your dedicated BG community what they want and enable us to play Deathmatch more frequently.

Parasaurolophus · May 2021

Seriously guys ... I'm just not an understand .... DM is probably the most flawed of any battle mode and I don't understand how you can ignore it. I will explain
1) Balance. If your team doesn't have a warden and a sorcerer, don't even try.
2) The strength of the teams becomes evident very quickly after the start. After a while, the match turns into a hunt for the weakest team.
3) Points for frags are awarded to the one who just made the last hit, and not to the one who actually destroyed 90% of the player's hp.

sabresandiego_ESO · May 2021

BrownChicken wrote: »

Seriously guys ... I'm just not an understand .... DM is probably the most flawed of any battle mode and I don't understand how you can ignore it. I will explain
1) Balance. If your team doesn't have a warden and a sorcerer, don't even try.
2) The strength of the teams becomes evident very quickly after the start. After a while, the match turns into a hunt for the weakest team.
3) Points for frags are awarded to the one who just made the last hit, and not to the one who actually destroyed 90% of the player's hp.

Yes deathmatch is flawed, arguably less than the other game modes because it still actually encourages pvp unlike many objective modes. It’s also the most popular.

divnyi · May 2021

@BrownChicken none of your points matter in 4man premades. You go in knowing your allies. You group up as 4 always. As a consequence, there are almost no teamfights where not all 3 teams present (because if 2 team fights, you can hamburger one of them to get the kills), unless 1 team got so bashed that they stayed at base.

Ladislao · May 2021

Why is this the most popular mode? Where does this information / statistics come from?

I love Chaosball because it's way more dynamic and meaningful mode with even more intensive fights. "It's also the most popular". So let's make two options: Chaosball and other modes.

Jameson18 · May 2021

Or...

Eliminate death match from the mix entirely.

Add 1-2 points per kb to all game modes.

Now you can kill your way to victory (slower) or do the objectives, or both. The objectives being a counter to deathmatch style teams, so that weaker teams have a shot at placing.

If the dm setup team is worth their salt, they'll stop the others from completing objectives.

I'd be hard pressed to play any other segment of the game if bg's were set up this way. Solo or Group queue. Wouldn't matter.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/573273/zos-option-to-satisfy-the-death-match-requests-everyone-wins#latest

Malprave · May 2021

Four player team deathmatch is the classic. The most popular mode in any game, at any time. End of story. Bring it back please.

divnyi · May 2021

Ladislao wrote: »

Why is this the most popular mode? Where does this information / statistics come from?

Based on the number of "finally, a deathmatch" I've seen in the chat. And curses when people see relic. Or flags.

Ladislao wrote: »

I love Chaosball because it's way more dynamic and meaningful mode with even more intensive fights.

chaosball on the maps where you can find safe corners is just horrible. Having 3 teams also makes this mode much worse, as 1 team holds the ball and 2 other fight each other at the choke point before the ball. I bet chaosball would be very interesting in 3vs3 or 4vs4 scenario tho.

[Edit to remove bait]

xylena_lazarow · May 2021

Haven't played BGs in years for the reasons ITT. I like Chaosball and CTR, but they're easily cheesed. It would make sense to funnel all the tryhards into team deathmatch queue, and have a solo objectives queue for casual BGs.

sabresandiego_ESO · May 2021

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Haven't played BGs in years for the reasons ITT. I like Chaosball and CTR, but they're easily cheesed. It would make sense to funnel all the tryhards into team deathmatch queue, and have a solo objectives queue for casual BGs.

Exactly, well said

Lady_Galadhiel · May 2021

I prefer chaosball

Ladislao · May 2021

divnyi wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

Why is this the most popular mode? Where does this information / statistics come from?

Based on the number of "finally, a deathmatch" I've seen in the chat. And curses when people see relic. Or flags..

I’m not saying that this is true or not

divnyi wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

I love Chaosball because it's way more dynamic and meaningful mode with even more intensive fights.

chaosball on the maps where you can find safe corners is just horrible. Having 3 teams also makes this mode much worse, as 1 team holds the ball and 2 other fight each other at the choke point before the ball. I bet chaosball would be very interesting in 3vs3 or 4vs4 scenario tho.

You know it wrong.
There are not so many really safe spots so usually it's not a problem. In most cases, the target is still vulnerable.
The pressure on ball carrier forces them to actively change their position, so the place of the fight is constantly changing, and very often it turns out to be interesting places in which you do not find yourself in other modes. And you always know where the battle is taking place.
All of this is absent in the mindless deathmatch.

I could add more, but I hope I was able to convey the main idea.

As for the three teams, two of which forget about the objective, and the third benefits from this. This applies to any mode, this is the idea of battlegrounds with three teams. While two teams are fighting among themselves in deathmatch, the third is standing close and finishing off the targets. So this is not a very valid point.

But this is all a little off-topic. I am only hinting that your point of view is not unambiguously correct, there are others.

[Edit to remove bait]

Waffennacht · May 2021

I want dm only option

divnyi · May 2021

Ladislao wrote: »

As for the three teams, two of which forget about the objective, and the third benefits from this.

If your team remembers about objectives but is attacked by other team, you have no other choice but to forget about objectives, wipe em and then go objectives.

Ladislao wrote: »

There are not so many really safe spots so usually it's not a problem. In most cases, the target is still vulnerable.

I remember just one map where you have no safe corners.

Ladislao wrote: »

But this is all a little off-topic. I am only hinting that your point of view is not unambiguously correct, there are others. So do not hide behind the phrase "by far the most popular game mode", but honestly say "I want it."

It is the most popular game mode. Up to the point where 3 teams played chaosball for 15m, because they killed all ball bearers and didn't take the ball themselves. You are the first chaosball apologist I see, I've seen "we need DM queue" threads with lots of people agreeing on the statement, you are the first one to demand chaosball.

And yes, we want it. Why else do you think we ask?

Beardimus · May 2021

It's a trade off
And solo / pre-mades being split is a better gig than before that's a real mood hoover otherwise.

So if it's a choice of prefer it stays as is.

I'm also biased that DM is by far my least favourite and before when you did a random you got DM as lots of pop queued for it.

For me, queues are better than ever as they stand right now

sabresandiego_ESO · May 2021

With either solution I suggested there will still be group and solo ques, and there will still be objective games.

NordJitsu · May 2021

I don’t think there are enough people doing BGs that they can split the player base this much.

I’d prefer that they up the rewards for coming in first so there’s more incentive to play the objectives. Particularly gold gain for first place finishes.

Lots of the objective games are fun. I’m a fan of capture the relic and crazy king. Not a big fan of chaosball usually.

People who go into objective games and play like it’s death match are the problem. Don’t see why that should be accommodated.

sabresandiego_ESO · May 2021

NordJitsu wrote: »

I don’t think there are enough people doing BGs that they can split the player base this much.

I’d prefer that they up the rewards for coming in first so there’s more incentive to play the objectives. Particularly gold gain for first place finishes.

Lots of the objective games are fun. I’m a fan of capture the relic and crazy king. Not a big fan of chaosball usually.

People who go into objective games and play like it’s death match are the problem. Don’t see why that should be accommodated.

The player base is not split any further at all if they make group que deathmatch only and leave the solo que the way it is.

MurderMostFoul · May 2021

NordJitsu wrote: »

I don’t think there are enough people doing BGs that they can split the player base this much.

I’d prefer that they up the rewards for coming in first so there’s more incentive to play the objectives. Particularly gold gain for first place finishes.

Lots of the objective games are fun. I’m a fan of capture the relic and crazy king. Not a big fan of chaosball usually.

People who go into objective games and play like it’s death match are the problem. Don’t see why that should be accommodated.

Rather than split the queue, they can just make death match occur more frequently. It would make sense for it to be 33% of the time (based on leaderboard distribution), though I would prefer 50%.

xylena_lazarow · May 2021

NordJitsu wrote: »

I don’t think there are enough people doing BGs that they can split the player base this much

More people would queue for BGs if they knew they were getting the game mode they want.

RedMuse · May 2021

divnyi wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

Why is this the most popular mode? Where does this information / statistics come from?

Based on the number of "finally, a deathmatch" I've seen in the chat. And curses when people see relic. Or flags.

Ladislao wrote: »

I love Chaosball because it's way more dynamic and meaningful mode with even more intensive fights.

chaosball on the maps where you can find safe corners is just horrible. Having 3 teams also makes this mode much worse, as 1 team holds the ball and 2 other fight each other at the choke point before the ball. I bet chaosball would be very interesting in 3vs3 or 4vs4 scenario tho.

[Edit to remove bait]

So, anecdata then. Yeah, that's highly reliable as we all know.