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• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
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DragonKnights are officially Extinct!
-
DemiDemon✭✭Is any variant of DK worth it at all? I don't play PTS and a good portion of this thread seems to focus on MagDK. I have a StamDK that I'm currently focused on trying to get the gear for so I can use it in both PvE for DPS and PvP (not score pushing, just wanna be able to run content at will), I have an abandoned MagDK that I was thinking of working on and a fresh Tank DK that I was gonna work on after hitting 300CP. So far, it seems I kinda wasted my time?PC/Xbox One - NA1 -
Muskrap✭✭✭TrinityBreaker wrote: »@Canned_Apples What? It shut down 4 projectiles over the course of 6 seconds for 3780 magicka(before the butcher). If you couldn't wait the 6 seconds, light attack it, bring cost increase poisons to deal with the already crap sustain for that magdk then I dont know what to tell you man.
Why should a DK get access to an ability that's as strong as an ultimate like that? Everyone knows that wings were overpowered. And needed the change. Relying on someone to have *** sustain and spam their *** isn't counterplay that's bad game design.
On the DoTs bipolar changes though something needs to be done overall. Whether they extend the pts and actually work to fix these things or they need to kick out the class reps and bring in multiple PvP and PvE reps they can actually listen to. Because glorifying a junior dev because he has alot of gameplay is stupid. Especially since he was never the person to be able to push the classes to their highest potential. Same with most of the class reps1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverPaws wrote: »Once again we were proved that Zenimax doesn't know anything about they're game and has no vision
^This! But you forgot the part “”because they don’t play their game, well if at all!” Lol.Edited by JumpmanLane on 23 September 2019 21:320 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Something pretty ironic in Dragons being killed this season along with Dragonknights being killed this season as well *grin*.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos7 -
Zulera301✭✭✭✭✭TrinityBreaker wrote: »@Canned_Apples What? It shut down 4 projectiles over the course of 6 seconds for 3780 magicka(before the butcher). If you couldn't wait the 6 seconds, light attack it, bring cost increase poisons to deal with the already crap sustain for that magdk then I dont know what to tell you man.
Why should a DK get access to an ability that's as strong as an ultimate like that? Everyone knows that wings were overpowered. And needed the change. Relying on someone to have *** sustain and spam their *** isn't counterplay that's bad game design.
On the DoTs bipolar changes though something needs to be done overall. Whether they extend the pts and actually work to fix these things or they need to kick out the class reps and bring in multiple PvP and PvE reps they can actually listen to. Because glorifying a junior dev because he has alot of gameplay is stupid. Especially since he was never the person to be able to push the classes to their highest potential. Same with most of the class reps
Most of the only people who said this were people who spammed snipes/frags/flame touch/spears for days and didn't want to learn to dodge. Sure you could pick off some camper for days without lifting much of a finger, but the high cost combined with 4 projectiles at a time made it not as OP as people wanted to think.
it really hurt stamDKs though, who could use it sparingly now and again to get some spammers off their back; but now it's completely worthless to them because why waste all that magicka for a fireball that does 1400 damage?
Agree on your other point though. ZOS needs to get people in there that actually know how to play the game; not the biased numbskulls that are suggesting such ruinous changes.Edited by Zulera301 on 23 September 2019 22:15Shortly after the formation of the Ebonheart Pact, a Nord woman was given a tour of the Tribunal Temple. When later asked about the experience, she seemed upset. Suffice to say, the Dunmer were not pleased to hear this, and thus they inquired further.
"Well," the Nord frowned, "the priests were very angry and unwelcoming. They kept shouting things at me like "you can't drink that mead in here!" and "somebody stop her, she's running naked!" and "we can't catch her; she's covered in grease!""0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »Please remove this lorebook from the game, I feel silly reading it as a DK main...
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/To_Smite_with_Dragon_Claws
this just gave me a brilliant idea.
guys.. .guys..... and girls...
listen...
are you ready?
how about..........
are you *** ready?
How. About.
We make Dragon Leap 50% reduced ulti-cost?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam if you make this, we'll forgive ANYTHING you did/do/will do with the class. ANYTHING.
Leap as class gap closer?
Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique4 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Everyone knows that wings were a L2P issue, but most people is just lazyTrinityBreaker wrote: »@Canned_Apples What? It shut down 4 projectiles over the course of 6 seconds for 3780 magicka(before the butcher). If you couldn't wait the 6 seconds, light attack it, bring cost increase poisons to deal with the already crap sustain for that magdk then I dont know what to tell you man.
Why should a DK get access to an ability that's as strong as an ultimate like that? Everyone knows that wings were overpowered. And needed the change. Relying on someone to have *** sustain and spam their *** isn't counterplay that's bad game design.
On the DoTs bipolar changes though something needs to be done overall. Whether they extend the pts and actually work to fix these things or they need to kick out the class reps and bring in multiple PvP and PvE reps they can actually listen to. Because glorifying a junior dev because he has alot of gameplay is stupid. Especially since he was never the person to be able to push the classes to their highest potential. Same with most of the class reps
Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique5 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Oof, immortal meme builds that serve the purpose of nothing more than a distraction, fun!
According to some people DK is fine because those builds exist and can even do some seal clubbing (aka killing brainless zerglings with no impen)0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What did you think would happen when ZOS "standardized" every skill in the game and thus removed what DKs were better at than the other classes (e.g. DoTs, now every class now had access to generic DoTs better than the ones in the DK's kit), yet did not "standardize" class weaknesses so DKs are still slow and have no execute? And then decide to fix the problem by nerfing what is supposed to be the DK's strength?
This class was very strong 6 months ago, but I have zero desire to play in a PvP environment where we return to the days where 90% of the DKs are just block tanks that do next to nothing except not die and get in the way.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.6 -
Ramber✭✭✭✭The title says it all, after multiple patches beating DK until it was lifeless and unresponsive, ZOS finally said they'd focus on class identity, especially DK's.
Glad they came out around the other side of their comment and decided to nerf DK's into one of the most useless and over nerfed class in ESO history.
When you are focusing on identity within DK, it's not very logical to take away all the firepower it has behind DOT's. I'm not saying DOT's should be overpowered, but let them remain in a position of power to have the upper hand when it comes to dots compared to Soul Trap and Entropy. Where is the sustain being overtuned for DK's? You keep raising the cost and compensating them nothing in return. Remember the mindset you guys once had, if you nerf something u gotta compensate it back somehow 1 way or the other. Dk's haven't gotten compensated for any of these nerfs for several patches.
The idea is simply gone, everything beautiful that used to be a good touch for DK's is gone. The damage, the potential, is now nothingness.
DK's are officially the biggest stall, with no potential to really contain/pressure/CC players as a Templar with such a powerful identity can do beyond that. Templars... Beat everything.
BOOM BABY
I'd strongly reconsider looking into DK's and reworking them this patch, waiting the next few patches for action to be taken is a suicide route.
DK's need more attention and light after these last few dark patches all favorable in bias of templars. A lot may have to do with Gilliam, but I ain't calling the shots... Lets just be real, Gilliam needs to step down or be less bias towards his playstyle and tastes, the entire game doesn't revolve around him or his mindset when it comes to balance changes. There are far more competitive players that'd like to chip in ideas, but when you shut them down and fall back on the "audit" excuse, you are forcing unfair and disadvantageous balance changes.
From the bottom of my heart and with the deepest concern for the game, please do not ruin it or manipulate our hope into disappointment just so we can follow through with your audit ideas. There's a trend among many thriving games, and it all starts with listening to your community. That is just beyond these forums too, being more engaged as a part of a community is far different than listening to words or reading words. Ever tried having a conversation with somebody u don't know and understand their perspective and their thought process behind these ideas? As far as I'm aware, forum is a place to go complain for nerfs and balance, but not everyone is perfect on the forums. And a vast majority of people will act out of anger and lack of insight into the opinion they're stating such as Nerfs , or buffs, or situations that annoy them.
I'm being humble as a sorc main, giving constructive feedback, and DK's need to be looked into and placed into something unique that they can use from that standpoint to kill something. Something more unique that a templar ALREADY doesn't have.
The game will not blossom if the ZOS team doesn't water the flowers of its community. Mark my words
-Ex
DKs are fine, they do a ton of damage and can sustain a ton of it, that is, if you don't just use them as a CC machine like EVERYONE likes to do.... try and play like a fighter instead of a trap bot and you too can love the DK.. its pretty dam fine like it is!0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »What did you think would happen when ZOS "standardized" every skill in the game and thus removed what DKs were better at than the other classes (e.g. DoTs, now every class now had access to generic DoTs better than the ones in the DK's kit), yet did not "standardize" class weaknesses so DKs are still slow and have no execute? And then decide to fix the problem by nerfing what is supposed to be the DK's strength?
This class was very strong 6 months ago, but I have zero desire to play in a PvP environment where we return to the days where 90% of the DKs are just block tanks that do next to nothing except not die and get in the way.
That is sadly a lot of people's idea of a strong class, If they are making things standart then why can't DK have less tankyness , more mobility, more damage? I don't even think having this much healing is worth it since without a purge, If I'm caught in the open I'm basically dead.
At this point why can't we have the pseudo-execute back on molten armaments, or have expedition on a skill that is not the stupid chains? I feel like If they truly want ''standarts'', they should have thrown classes out of the window and made a hybrid system similar to that of Archeage, where you combine three different skill lines to create a unique class.0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Everyone knows that wings were a L2P issue, but most people is just lazyTrinityBreaker wrote: »@Canned_Apples What? It shut down 4 projectiles over the course of 6 seconds for 3780 magicka(before the butcher). If you couldn't wait the 6 seconds, light attack it, bring cost increase poisons to deal with the already crap sustain for that magdk then I dont know what to tell you man.
Why should a DK get access to an ability that's as strong as an ultimate like that? Everyone knows that wings were overpowered. And needed the change. Relying on someone to have *** sustain and spam their *** isn't counterplay that's bad game design.
On the DoTs bipolar changes though something needs to be done overall. Whether they extend the pts and actually work to fix these things or they need to kick out the class reps and bring in multiple PvP and PvE reps they can actually listen to. Because glorifying a junior dev because he has alot of gameplay is stupid. Especially since he was never the person to be able to push the classes to their highest potential. Same with most of the class reps
Not quite; the way I saw it was that it was OP because it required you to either roll, take damage, or not attack if you were a ranged build while the wings user only wasted less than 4K magicka.
Compare that to a heal or shield that also takes around the same amount of magicka and wings were OP.
Essentially, wings had the power:
(1) to shut down a mag/ranged build's sustain because they can't use light attacks with drain/heavy attack with a bow for wings duration
(2) to cause ranged builds or anyone using projectiles and/or proc sets that make projectiles to be forced to roll
(3) to cause you to have less pressure and give you a window to recover or go on the offense
(4) All without a CD.
There is no greater effect by any skill or set in the game, in my opinion, than ones that force players to take predictable actions and give you complete control over an encounter. Wings were one of those skills (and so is living dark on live and the PTS, but ZOS conveniently ignores it for some reason...
), so I can see how it was complained about and got nerfed.
Let's be honest, no one was spamming wings without thinking. It was used in specific cases to completely control encounters. At least that's what I did when it was on my bar for 5 seconds and I got disgusted
0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Everyone knows that wings were a L2P issue, but most people is just lazyTrinityBreaker wrote: »@Canned_Apples What? It shut down 4 projectiles over the course of 6 seconds for 3780 magicka(before the butcher). If you couldn't wait the 6 seconds, light attack it, bring cost increase poisons to deal with the already crap sustain for that magdk then I dont know what to tell you man.
Why should a DK get access to an ability that's as strong as an ultimate like that? Everyone knows that wings were overpowered. And needed the change. Relying on someone to have *** sustain and spam their *** isn't counterplay that's bad game design.
On the DoTs bipolar changes though something needs to be done overall. Whether they extend the pts and actually work to fix these things or they need to kick out the class reps and bring in multiple PvP and PvE reps they can actually listen to. Because glorifying a junior dev because he has alot of gameplay is stupid. Especially since he was never the person to be able to push the classes to their highest potential. Same with most of the class reps
Not quite; the way I saw it was that it was OP because it required you to either roll, take damage, or not attack if you were a ranged build while the wings user only wasted less than 4K magicka.
Compare that to a heal or shield that also takes around the same amount of magicka and wings were OP.
Essentially, wings had the power:
(1) to shut down a mag/ranged build's sustain because they can't use light attacks with drain/heavy attack with a bow for wings duration
(2) to cause ranged builds or anyone using projectiles and/or proc sets that make projectiles to be forced to roll
(3) to cause you to have less pressure and give you a window to recover or go on the offense
(4) All without a CD.
There is no greater effect by any skill or set in the game, in my opinion, than ones that force players to take predictable actions and give you complete control over an encounter. Wings were one of those skills (and so is living dark on live and the PTS, but ZOS conveniently ignores it for some reason... ), so I can see how it was complained about and got nerfed.
Let's be honest, no one was spamming wings without thinking. It was used in specific cases to completely control encounters. At least that's what I did when it was on my bar for 5 seconds and I got disgusted
I had 0 problems killing DKs on a mageblade from range. I had 0 problems killing them on melee. I never, ever used a single rotation against a DK that implied standing still. Cloak was a great, great counter to reflected projectiles, allowing you to keep your distance while getting 0 dmg. And since mageblade resource recovery was way better than DK's, it was easy to make them burn their magicka.
In the same way, there were lots of mageblades that killed me on my DK despite the use of wings. Of course, there were baddies that send 3 or 4 projectiles at a DK in a timespan of 3 secs...
Wings were powerful against players that knew little about the class they were facing. To defeat the class you must know the class you are facing.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Everyone knows that wings were a L2P issue, but most people is just lazyTrinityBreaker wrote: »@Canned_Apples What? It shut down 4 projectiles over the course of 6 seconds for 3780 magicka(before the butcher). If you couldn't wait the 6 seconds, light attack it, bring cost increase poisons to deal with the already crap sustain for that magdk then I dont know what to tell you man.
Why should a DK get access to an ability that's as strong as an ultimate like that? Everyone knows that wings were overpowered. And needed the change. Relying on someone to have *** sustain and spam their *** isn't counterplay that's bad game design.
On the DoTs bipolar changes though something needs to be done overall. Whether they extend the pts and actually work to fix these things or they need to kick out the class reps and bring in multiple PvP and PvE reps they can actually listen to. Because glorifying a junior dev because he has alot of gameplay is stupid. Especially since he was never the person to be able to push the classes to their highest potential. Same with most of the class reps
Not quite; the way I saw it was that it was OP because it required you to either roll, take damage, or not attack if you were a ranged build while the wings user only wasted less than 4K magicka.
Compare that to a heal or shield that also takes around the same amount of magicka and wings were OP.
Essentially, wings had the power:
(1) to shut down a mag/ranged build's sustain because they can't use light attacks with drain/heavy attack with a bow for wings duration
(2) to cause ranged builds or anyone using projectiles and/or proc sets that make projectiles to be forced to roll
(3) to cause you to have less pressure and give you a window to recover or go on the offense
(4) All without a CD.
There is no greater effect by any skill or set in the game, in my opinion, than ones that force players to take predictable actions and give you complete control over an encounter. Wings were one of those skills (and so is living dark on live and the PTS, but ZOS conveniently ignores it for some reason... ), so I can see how it was complained about and got nerfed.
Let's be honest, no one was spamming wings without thinking. It was used in specific cases to completely control encounters. At least that's what I did when it was on my bar for 5 seconds and I got disgusted
What a joke you are.
Wings got deleted do you understand?
StamDK could not shut down ranged enemies.
We didnt had the magika to do so.
First off magDK were not as OP as you make them sound with the use of wings.
Secondly, it could be nerfed with fatigue or some mechanic.
How many times do we have to say
1)wasnt OP
2)shouldnt be deleted
By the way. The meta stamDK snb/2h 7th fury BS didnt slot wings.
Do you see how hateful people like you are, and managed to completelly delete a beautiful unique ability?
Edited by GeorgeBlack on 23 September 2019 23:382 -
FoulSnowpaw✭✭✭Every Dragonknight nerf is made because of pvp and this statement is absolute.
Every excuse for justifying the nerf of DK is because they're unkillable(which they're not) or because battle roar. Or DK whips hit too hard when it deals barely the same amount of damage as other class "spammables" that are RANGED. DK are melee and are easily countered like nothing. CCs have cooldown and all classes have them that do more than just pull you in.
PVE LOSSES- Dragonknights have below grade dps parses compared to all other classes.
- DK have no sustain and their abilities cost the MOST compared to all other classes.
- DK are primarily melee therefore are danger prone, yet hit like a malnourished lizard and get hit like salamander.
- DK have pseudo-passives that "increase the damage of class ability" when that "perk" should've been the base ability.
- DK abilities cause a lot of frame drops yet still look visually lacking.
- DK have no "tanky-playstyle" part of them anymore since they die like every other class and there's nothing that stands out.
- DK abilities all have a cooldown or in other words their damage over time cast consecutively(searing strike spamming) becomes highly inefficient. Their CCs share a cooldown(petrify and stonefist don't stack).
- Oh and they have NO execute ability which is a huge loss.
Fill in the rest, missing a lot but those are some major things ZOS should realize.
P.S. Almost all players in pvp population are vampires so there's the source of saltEdited by FoulSnowpaw on 24 September 2019 00:142 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The title says it all, after multiple patches beating DK until it was lifeless and unresponsive, ZOS finally said they'd focus on class identity, especially DK's.
Glad they came out around the other side of their comment and decided to nerf DK's into one of the most useless and over nerfed class in ESO history.
When you are focusing on identity within DK, it's not very logical to take away all the firepower it has behind DOT's. I'm not saying DOT's should be overpowered, but let them remain in a position of power to have the upper hand when it comes to dots compared to Soul Trap and Entropy. Where is the sustain being overtuned for DK's? You keep raising the cost and compensating them nothing in return. Remember the mindset you guys once had, if you nerf something u gotta compensate it back somehow 1 way or the other. Dk's haven't gotten compensated for any of these nerfs for several patches.
The idea is simply gone, everything beautiful that used to be a good touch for DK's is gone. The damage, the potential, is now nothingness.
DK's are officially the biggest stall, with no potential to really contain/pressure/CC players as a Templar with such a powerful identity can do beyond that. Templars... Beat everything.
BOOM BABY
I'd strongly reconsider looking into DK's and reworking them this patch, waiting the next few patches for action to be taken is a suicide route.
DK's need more attention and light after these last few dark patches all favorable in bias of templars. A lot may have to do with Gilliam, but I ain't calling the shots... Lets just be real, Gilliam needs to step down or be less bias towards his playstyle and tastes, the entire game doesn't revolve around him or his mindset when it comes to balance changes. There are far more competitive players that'd like to chip in ideas, but when you shut them down and fall back on the "audit" excuse, you are forcing unfair and disadvantageous balance changes.
From the bottom of my heart and with the deepest concern for the game, please do not ruin it or manipulate our hope into disappointment just so we can follow through with your audit ideas. There's a trend among many thriving games, and it all starts with listening to your community. That is just beyond these forums too, being more engaged as a part of a community is far different than listening to words or reading words. Ever tried having a conversation with somebody u don't know and understand their perspective and their thought process behind these ideas? As far as I'm aware, forum is a place to go complain for nerfs and balance, but not everyone is perfect on the forums. And a vast majority of people will act out of anger and lack of insight into the opinion they're stating such as Nerfs , or buffs, or situations that annoy them.
I'm being humble as a sorc main, giving constructive feedback, and DK's need to be looked into and placed into something unique that they can use from that standpoint to kill something. Something more unique that a templar ALREADY doesn't have.
The game will not blossom if the ZOS team doesn't water the flowers of its community. Mark my words
-Ex
DKs are fine, they do a ton of damage and can sustain a ton of it, that is, if you don't just use them as a CC machine like EVERYONE likes to do.... try and play like a fighter instead of a trap bot and you too can love the DK.. its pretty dam fine like it is!
I call B.S. I use Fossilize with 688 Magicka Recovery. Lol.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »
Everyone knows that wings were a L2P issue, but most people is just lazyTrinityBreaker wrote: »@Canned_Apples What? It shut down 4 projectiles over the course of 6 seconds for 3780 magicka(before the butcher). If you couldn't wait the 6 seconds, light attack it, bring cost increase poisons to deal with the already crap sustain for that magdk then I dont know what to tell you man.
Why should a DK get access to an ability that's as strong as an ultimate like that? Everyone knows that wings were overpowered. And needed the change. Relying on someone to have *** sustain and spam their *** isn't counterplay that's bad game design.
On the DoTs bipolar changes though something needs to be done overall. Whether they extend the pts and actually work to fix these things or they need to kick out the class reps and bring in multiple PvP and PvE reps they can actually listen to. Because glorifying a junior dev because he has alot of gameplay is stupid. Especially since he was never the person to be able to push the classes to their highest potential. Same with most of the class reps
Not quite; the way I saw it was that it was OP because it required you to either roll, take damage, or not attack if you were a ranged build while the wings user only wasted less than 4K magicka.
Compare that to a heal or shield that also takes around the same amount of magicka and wings were OP.
Essentially, wings had the power:
(1) to shut down a mag/ranged build's sustain because they can't use light attacks with drain/heavy attack with a bow for wings duration
(2) to cause ranged builds or anyone using projectiles and/or proc sets that make projectiles to be forced to roll
(3) to cause you to have less pressure and give you a window to recover or go on the offense
(4) All without a CD.
There is no greater effect by any skill or set in the game, in my opinion, than ones that force players to take predictable actions and give you complete control over an encounter. Wings were one of those skills (and so is living dark on live and the PTS, but ZOS conveniently ignores it for some reason... ), so I can see how it was complained about and got nerfed.
Let's be honest, no one was spamming wings without thinking. It was used in specific cases to completely control encounters. At least that's what I did when it was on my bar for 5 seconds and I got disgusted
What a joke you are.
Wings got deleted do you understand?
StamDK could not shut down ranged enemies.
We didnt had the magika to do so.
First off magDK were not as OP as you make them sound with the use of wings.
Secondly, it could be nerfed with fatigue or some mechanic.
How many times do we have to say
1)wasnt OP
2)shouldnt be deleted
By the way. The meta stamDK snb/2h 7th fury BS didnt slot wings.
Do you see how hateful people like you are, and managed to completelly delete a beautiful unique ability?
Just adding that mDKs in heavy rarely used wings for the reflect, it was mainly used for the CC and snare inmunity. mDKs running wings as a offensive skill were mostly Light armor DKs that needed to keep projectiles at bay and had enough magicka regen to "spam it" and to keep HoTs active.
After wings were nerfed, mDKs were pushed towards HA more than ever, which is sad, since the only counter those LA mDKs was force pulse.
BTW, most of the DKs running wings were Vamps, so I think a prismatic glyph was more than enoughSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭The title says it all, after multiple patches beating DK until it was lifeless and unresponsive, ZOS finally said they'd focus on class identity, especially DK's.
Glad they came out around the other side of their comment and decided to nerf DK's into one of the most useless and over nerfed class in ESO history.
When you are focusing on identity within DK, it's not very logical to take away all the firepower it has behind DOT's. I'm not saying DOT's should be overpowered, but let them remain in a position of power to have the upper hand when it comes to dots compared to Soul Trap and Entropy. Where is the sustain being overtuned for DK's? You keep raising the cost and compensating them nothing in return. Remember the mindset you guys once had, if you nerf something u gotta compensate it back somehow 1 way or the other. Dk's haven't gotten compensated for any of these nerfs for several patches.
The idea is simply gone, everything beautiful that used to be a good touch for DK's is gone. The damage, the potential, is now nothingness.
DK's are officially the biggest stall, with no potential to really contain/pressure/CC players as a Templar with such a powerful identity can do beyond that. Templars... Beat everything.
BOOM BABY
I'd strongly reconsider looking into DK's and reworking them this patch, waiting the next few patches for action to be taken is a suicide route.
DK's need more attention and light after these last few dark patches all favorable in bias of templars. A lot may have to do with Gilliam, but I ain't calling the shots... Lets just be real, Gilliam needs to step down or be less bias towards his playstyle and tastes, the entire game doesn't revolve around him or his mindset when it comes to balance changes. There are far more competitive players that'd like to chip in ideas, but when you shut them down and fall back on the "audit" excuse, you are forcing unfair and disadvantageous balance changes.
From the bottom of my heart and with the deepest concern for the game, please do not ruin it or manipulate our hope into disappointment just so we can follow through with your audit ideas. There's a trend among many thriving games, and it all starts with listening to your community. That is just beyond these forums too, being more engaged as a part of a community is far different than listening to words or reading words. Ever tried having a conversation with somebody u don't know and understand their perspective and their thought process behind these ideas? As far as I'm aware, forum is a place to go complain for nerfs and balance, but not everyone is perfect on the forums. And a vast majority of people will act out of anger and lack of insight into the opinion they're stating such as Nerfs , or buffs, or situations that annoy them.
I'm being humble as a sorc main, giving constructive feedback, and DK's need to be looked into and placed into something unique that they can use from that standpoint to kill something. Something more unique that a templar ALREADY doesn't have.
The game will not blossom if the ZOS team doesn't water the flowers of its community. Mark my words
-Ex
DKs are fine, they do a ton of damage and can sustain a ton of it, that is, if you don't just use them as a CC machine like EVERYONE likes to do.... try and play like a fighter instead of a trap bot and you too can love the DK.. its pretty dam fine like it is!
it's true. they are fine in Live right now.
but pts? utter garbage.August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber1 -
TrinityBreaker✭✭✭✭✭The title says it all, after multiple patches beating DK until it was lifeless and unresponsive, ZOS finally said they'd focus on class identity, especially DK's.
Glad they came out around the other side of their comment and decided to nerf DK's into one of the most useless and over nerfed class in ESO history.
When you are focusing on identity within DK, it's not very logical to take away all the firepower it has behind DOT's. I'm not saying DOT's should be overpowered, but let them remain in a position of power to have the upper hand when it comes to dots compared to Soul Trap and Entropy. Where is the sustain being overtuned for DK's? You keep raising the cost and compensating them nothing in return. Remember the mindset you guys once had, if you nerf something u gotta compensate it back somehow 1 way or the other. Dk's haven't gotten compensated for any of these nerfs for several patches.
The idea is simply gone, everything beautiful that used to be a good touch for DK's is gone. The damage, the potential, is now nothingness.
DK's are officially the biggest stall, with no potential to really contain/pressure/CC players as a Templar with such a powerful identity can do beyond that. Templars... Beat everything.
BOOM BABY
I'd strongly reconsider looking into DK's and reworking them this patch, waiting the next few patches for action to be taken is a suicide route.
DK's need more attention and light after these last few dark patches all favorable in bias of templars. A lot may have to do with Gilliam, but I ain't calling the shots... Lets just be real, Gilliam needs to step down or be less bias towards his playstyle and tastes, the entire game doesn't revolve around him or his mindset when it comes to balance changes. There are far more competitive players that'd like to chip in ideas, but when you shut them down and fall back on the "audit" excuse, you are forcing unfair and disadvantageous balance changes.
From the bottom of my heart and with the deepest concern for the game, please do not ruin it or manipulate our hope into disappointment just so we can follow through with your audit ideas. There's a trend among many thriving games, and it all starts with listening to your community. That is just beyond these forums too, being more engaged as a part of a community is far different than listening to words or reading words. Ever tried having a conversation with somebody u don't know and understand their perspective and their thought process behind these ideas? As far as I'm aware, forum is a place to go complain for nerfs and balance, but not everyone is perfect on the forums. And a vast majority of people will act out of anger and lack of insight into the opinion they're stating such as Nerfs , or buffs, or situations that annoy them.
I'm being humble as a sorc main, giving constructive feedback, and DK's need to be looked into and placed into something unique that they can use from that standpoint to kill something. Something more unique that a templar ALREADY doesn't have.
The game will not blossom if the ZOS team doesn't water the flowers of its community. Mark my words
-Ex
DKs are fine, they do a ton of damage and can sustain a ton of it, that is, if you don't just use them as a CC machine like EVERYONE likes to do.... try and play like a fighter instead of a trap bot and you too can love the DK.. its pretty dam fine like it is!
Are you sure about that?Ebonheart for life.
Xbox NA
I am Dog Star.
Khajiit Stam Sorc - Ji'saad Ranajiradh AR 30
Khajiit Mag DK - Kesjhad
Khajiit Magblade - Ji'sava Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamplar - Dro'haniAk'nir - AR 36
Khajiit Stam Dk - Diego Ri'jhad - AR 49
Khajiit Magplar - Dro'nara Ak'nir
Khajiit StamBlade - Ri'artharr Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamden - Dro'hani Warbreaker
Argonian Stam DK - Tiberius Demetros
Khajiit Stamplar - Diëgo Ri'jhad
Fat Khajiit Stam DK - Drö'hani Ak'nir/Dances-With-Alkosh
Khajiit Magden - Arctic Mayhem0 -
TrinityBreaker✭✭✭✭✭TrinityBreaker wrote: »@Canned_Apples What? It shut down 4 projectiles over the course of 6 seconds for 3780 magicka(before the butcher). If you couldn't wait the 6 seconds, light attack it, bring cost increase poisons to deal with the already crap sustain for that magdk then I dont know what to tell you man.
Why should a DK get access to an ability that's as strong as an ultimate like that? Everyone knows that wings were overpowered. And needed the change. Relying on someone to have *** sustain and spam their *** isn't counterplay that's bad game design.
On the DoTs bipolar changes though something needs to be done overall. Whether they extend the pts and actually work to fix these things or they need to kick out the class reps and bring in multiple PvP and PvE reps they can actually listen to. Because glorifying a junior dev because he has alot of gameplay is stupid. Especially since he was never the person to be able to push the classes to their highest potential. Same with most of the class reps
If you dont know by that that you light attack wings 4 times to bring it down ,by now. Then I cant and wont help you.Ebonheart for life.
Xbox NA
I am Dog Star.
Khajiit Stam Sorc - Ji'saad Ranajiradh AR 30
Khajiit Mag DK - Kesjhad
Khajiit Magblade - Ji'sava Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamplar - Dro'haniAk'nir - AR 36
Khajiit Stam Dk - Diego Ri'jhad - AR 49
Khajiit Magplar - Dro'nara Ak'nir
Khajiit StamBlade - Ri'artharr Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamden - Dro'hani Warbreaker
Argonian Stam DK - Tiberius Demetros
Khajiit Stamplar - Diëgo Ri'jhad
Fat Khajiit Stam DK - Drö'hani Ak'nir/Dances-With-Alkosh
Khajiit Magden - Arctic Mayhem0 -
TrinityBreaker✭✭✭✭✭
Everyone knows that wings were a L2P issue, but most people is just lazyTrinityBreaker wrote: »@Canned_Apples What? It shut down 4 projectiles over the course of 6 seconds for 3780 magicka(before the butcher). If you couldn't wait the 6 seconds, light attack it, bring cost increase poisons to deal with the already crap sustain for that magdk then I dont know what to tell you man.
Why should a DK get access to an ability that's as strong as an ultimate like that? Everyone knows that wings were overpowered. And needed the change. Relying on someone to have *** sustain and spam their *** isn't counterplay that's bad game design.
On the DoTs bipolar changes though something needs to be done overall. Whether they extend the pts and actually work to fix these things or they need to kick out the class reps and bring in multiple PvP and PvE reps they can actually listen to. Because glorifying a junior dev because he has alot of gameplay is stupid. Especially since he was never the person to be able to push the classes to their highest potential. Same with most of the class reps
Not quite; the way I saw it was that it was OP because it required you to either roll, take damage, or not attack if you were a ranged build while the wings user only wasted less than 4K magicka.
Compare that to a heal or shield that also takes around the same amount of magicka and wings were OP.
Essentially, wings had the power:
(1) to shut down a mag/ranged build's sustain because they can't use light attacks with drain/heavy attack with a bow for wings duration
(2) to cause ranged builds or anyone using projectiles and/or proc sets that make projectiles to be forced to roll
(3) to cause you to have less pressure and give you a window to recover or go on the offense
(4) All without a CD.
There is no greater effect by any skill or set in the game, in my opinion, than ones that force players to take predictable actions and give you complete control over an encounter. Wings were one of those skills (and so is living dark on live and the PTS, but ZOS conveniently ignores it for some reason... ), so I can see how it was complained about and got nerfed.
Let's be honest, no one was spamming wings without thinking. It was used in specific cases to completely control encounters. At least that's what I did when it was on my bar for 5 seconds and I got disgusted
So you telling me you could not light attack wings to bring them down at all? Not even with a restro? Because call me crazy but you could use a restro light attack with no damaging consequence to yourself.Edited by TrinityBreaker on 24 September 2019 03:19Ebonheart for life.
Xbox NA
I am Dog Star.
Khajiit Stam Sorc - Ji'saad Ranajiradh AR 30
Khajiit Mag DK - Kesjhad
Khajiit Magblade - Ji'sava Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamplar - Dro'haniAk'nir - AR 36
Khajiit Stam Dk - Diego Ri'jhad - AR 49
Khajiit Magplar - Dro'nara Ak'nir
Khajiit StamBlade - Ri'artharr Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamden - Dro'hani Warbreaker
Argonian Stam DK - Tiberius Demetros
Khajiit Stamplar - Diëgo Ri'jhad
Fat Khajiit Stam DK - Drö'hani Ak'nir/Dances-With-Alkosh
Khajiit Magden - Arctic Mayhem0 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭Inb4 DKs remember that one of the "counters" available to "skilled players" was exploiting the inability of Wings to properly refresh when it had only one reflect left.
A lot of you are basing your understanding of how "fair" the skill was on it being decently severely bugged in U21.
While bugged, at minimum, Wings let much worse DKs stall much better players out unless they exploited the bugged nature of Wings.
To be real Wings probably only got deleted because ZOS probably couldn't fix that bug without an unseemly amount of coding. Chances are decent that a bug not worth fixing killed the skill.Edited by darkblue5 on 24 September 2019 04:090 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since i have little to none DK exp im not quite sure are ppl complaining because they think it got nerfed defensively, or because they lost the ability to incorporate buffed enemy projectile into their burst.
If you're fighting outnumbered by more then one ranged attacker, i think that new wings perform better, or atleast they should on paper and even more so if you can't have 100% uptime because sustain. 2 ranged players will deplete your wings in 2 GCDs doing 0 dmg and then 4 GCDs doing full dmg, or 6 GCDs doing 50%. After 2 players it just gets better and better.
Again, im not DK, but i think that loss of reflected dmg is the biggest painpoint for DKs.
0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Since i have little to none DK exp im not quite sure are ppl complaining because they think it got nerfed defensively, or because they lost the ability to incorporate buffed enemy projectile into their burst.
If you're fighting outnumbered by more then one ranged attacker, i think that new wings perform better, or atleast they should on paper and even more so if you can't have 100% uptime because sustain. 2 ranged players will deplete your wings in 2 GCDs doing 0 dmg and then 4 GCDs doing full dmg, or 6 GCDs doing 50%. After 2 players it just gets better and better.
Again, im not DK, but i think that loss of reflected dmg is the biggest painpoint for DKs.
The cost reduction only refers to projectiles. There are a lot of attacks that are not projectiles that have always gone through wings doing 100% dmg. Projectiles did 0 dmg while wings were up and you didn't received any debuff/elemental status/weapon glyph dmg.
To summarize, if in 6 secs you get 6 snipes
With old wings: you received 200% dmg of snipe + some glyph dmg if it proc
with new wings: you receive 300% dmg of snipe (50% of 6 attacks) + glyph dmg proc (1 or 2 at least)
Why were wings better in the old iteration? Because after you received 4 attacks you could recast the skill immediately, getting 0 dmg from projectiles (though the bug sometimes messed you with that). Now you are tied to 6 secs duration. The price was more than enough considering its cost and the poor resource management Dks have.
Compare that to sorcs shield. Whenever a shield goes down, the sorc can recast it, without having to wait 6/8 secs, thus he can achieve 100% mitigation. If we rework shields in such a way that during 6 secs, sorcs receive 50% dmg from all sources the complaint will be exactly the same. Would that be a buff or a nerf?Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Banana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I might whip out a resto on the backbar for a bit more utility seeing dots are so terrible. I play solo.0 -
Vanos444✭✭✭✭✭So, what happen to dragon knights in the recent patch?
I have DK for PvP. So, any input about the current DK would be helpful...0 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭I can't wait to hear if the coding went horribly wrong and every % of fiery breath stacks from different sources.0
