DragonKnights are officially Extinct!

Expert · September 2019

The title says it all, after multiple patches beating DK until it was lifeless and unresponsive, ZOS finally said they'd focus on class identity, especially DK's.

Glad they came out around the other side of their comment and decided to nerf DK's into one of the most useless and over nerfed class in ESO history.

When you are focusing on identity within DK, it's not very logical to take away all the firepower it has behind DOT's. I'm not saying DOT's should be overpowered, but let them remain in a position of power to have the upper hand when it comes to dots compared to Soul Trap and Entropy. Where is the sustain being overtuned for DK's? You keep raising the cost and compensating them nothing in return. Remember the mindset you guys once had, if you nerf something u gotta compensate it back somehow 1 way or the other. Dk's haven't gotten compensated for any of these nerfs for several patches.

The idea is simply gone, everything beautiful that used to be a good touch for DK's is gone. The damage, the potential, is now nothingness.

DK's are officially the biggest stall, with no potential to really contain/pressure/CC players as a Templar with such a powerful identity can do beyond that. Templars... Beat everything.

BOOM BABY

I'd strongly reconsider looking into DK's and reworking them this patch, waiting the next few patches for action to be taken is a suicide route.

DK's need more attention and light after these last few dark patches all favorable in bias of templars. A lot may have to do with Gilliam, but I ain't calling the shots... Lets just be real, Gilliam needs to step down or be less bias towards his playstyle and tastes, the entire game doesn't revolve around him or his mindset when it comes to balance changes. There are far more competitive players that'd like to chip in ideas, but when you shut them down and fall back on the "audit" excuse, you are forcing unfair and disadvantageous balance changes.

From the bottom of my heart and with the deepest concern for the game, please do not ruin it or manipulate our hope into disappointment just so we can follow through with your audit ideas. There's a trend among many thriving games, and it all starts with listening to your community. That is just beyond these forums too, being more engaged as a part of a community is far different than listening to words or reading words. Ever tried having a conversation with somebody u don't know and understand their perspective and their thought process behind these ideas? As far as I'm aware, forum is a place to go complain for nerfs and balance, but not everyone is perfect on the forums. And a vast majority of people will act out of anger and lack of insight into the opinion they're stating such as Nerfs , or buffs, or situations that annoy them.

I'm being humble as a sorc main, giving constructive feedback, and DK's need to be looked into and placed into something unique that they can use from that standpoint to kill something. Something more unique that a templar ALREADY doesn't have.

The game will not blossom if the ZOS team doesn't water the flowers of its community. Mark my words

-Ex

MaskedHuman · September 2019

As a MagDK main for almost 4 years now, I've seen almost every nerf possible come to MagDK, slowly killing it until it finally reached the nail on the coffin, Talons doesn't root effectively anymore, Deep breath will never be as strong as it used to be, wings are completely butchered **thanks to brainless snipeblades that complain in the forums about it when they get 1xved** and now, our last offensive toolkit is completely gone, engulfing is butchered, costs too high, and burning embers does less damage than volatile armor.

MagDK just became a watered down single target class that literally magden performs better than it now.

Also, thank you Ex, lord of all magsorcs, for standing up for us DKs in our time of need, we will pay this back to you one day.

VaranisArano · September 2019

Did DKs lose the position of "best PVE tank" too?

Historically, that's largely why DKs get nerfed. ZOS doesnt want to make us the "best PVE tanks, forever and ever, why would you bring anything else?" So they nerf DK DPS.

Canned_Apples · September 2019

@MaskedHuman Wings were broken because they completely shut down magBlades.
No, spamming Concealed Weapon was not a viable play style.

Sanguinor2 · September 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Did DKs lose the position of "best PVE tank" too?

Historically, that's largely why DKs get nerfed. ZOS doesnt want to make us the "best PVE tanks, forever and ever, why would you bring anything else?" So they nerf DK DPS.

Lost engulfing so there isnt really a Need anymore to bring a dk tank along (well they still have it but you Need 3.3k spell Damage for the 10% buff now so no use on a tank) and a nb tank can use alkosh and crusher just aswell and has superior survivability, can give Major Expedition, offheals and minor savagery if stamnecro stack will still be a Thing so you dont Need your token nightblade dps for that.

They will still be good tanks in a sense of survivability and resource Management but nb will be better, warden tank could use blood altar for minor toughness if you dont happen to have a warden healer and would be better to bring than a dk tank in that case aswell.

Nirntrotter · September 2019

I've played my MagDK DD since launch and for the first time ever, I feel kind of defeated. Does anyone know if DK healers will be vet trial viable? Because this is the only way I see myself not switching to a different main for the first time ever. </3

Suryoyo · September 2019

With the healing being unchanged, molten whip will still hit hard, flame of oblivion same, volatile armor (will eat a nerf next pts probably), leap will still hit hard and to a lesser extent burning talons (will also be nerf next pts) and drw essence there's still those at least with petrify...?
But our DoTs are useless...like all DoTs in the game in the current PTS cycle.

Cortimi · September 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Did DKs lose the position of "best PVE tank" too?

Historically, that's largely why DKs get nerfed. ZOS doesnt want to make us the "best PVE tanks, forever and ever, why would you bring anything else?" So they nerf DK DPS.

Literally anything my DK can do in PvE, my Templar, Warden, and Sorc (until patch) can do just as well. Templar had just as strong (but different) utility, Warden has the best offtank toolkit in the game and great utility, and my Sorc simply took less damage than any other class (RIP Bound Armaments) and had the best self heals along with an air stun. DK simply brought minor sorcery to the group. Big whoop.

As a stamDK, I was "guilty of crutching Wings. Really didn't have too many things that helped in the toolkit to replace it, but we moved on.

Then came the nerf to all the heavy sets. Well wait a second, wasn't it the devs themselves that said the DK was the "stand your ground" class? Attrition requires survivability, so yeah, we wore heavy armor. Don't blame the gear for that, blame poor class design.

Next came the 1h/s nerfs. Again, attrition class taking hits to attrition playstyle.

Now, you are gutting dots, the absolute core identity of the entire class, and giving us a watered down version of birds? REALLY?

We could have had venomous claw be our spammable with an initial hit buff, and code the dot to not reapply (like werewolf claws), we could have gotten a physical damage whip, we could have had talons get converted to a single hit Stam ability that puts a mild debuff on the target like. Anything was possible. But no, we get a generic birds refry, with an absolute neutering to everything else.

That's the limit of your imagination, to just recycle the same crap you've done for the last two class releases? Wow.

I am firmly of the belief that devs have only played magsorcs, and are just nerfing everything that beats them at this point.

TrinityBreaker · September 2019

@Canned_Apples What? It shut down 4 projectiles over the course of 6 seconds for 3780 magicka(before the butcher). If you couldn't wait the 6 seconds, light attack it, bring cost increase poisons to deal with the already crap sustain for that magdk then I dont know what to tell you man.

FrancisCrawford · September 2019

ethuiliel wrote: »

I've played my MagDK DD since launch and for the first time ever, I feel kind of defeated. Does anyone know if DK healers will be vet trial viable? Because this is the only way I see myself not switching to a different main for the first time ever. </3

I don't know. There's one argument I see made surprisingly rarely:

If a teammate can provide your choice of Major Brutality or Major Sorcery, then you don't need that from pots, so you can get some other pot benefit in its place.

Otherwise I see little advantage to DK healing.

Canned_Apples · September 2019

@TrinityBreaker
Uh-huh. Sure, bro.
You say that as if the magdk is just going to be standing there like a target dummy.

Lokey0024 · September 2019

I'm not sure if they considered that DK dots have to be applied within handshake range, not max range like ST/Entrophy or a myriad of other class dots. That in itself limits the damage from having to build tanky. I hope they figure it out, they did good work adding and adjusting class spammables, even if most consider the fist meme worthy (I don't), and giving a burst mechanic with molten whip, so I'm hopeful.

ZarkingFrued · September 2019

Mag dk gonna be horrible next patch. BOOM BABY , right? We all say templar overperforms, they nerf mdk and buff plar

Davadin · September 2019

as DK main since beta, and one-alt-MMO player, I hate to say it, but I agree.

if this patch goes live, DK is dead and burried.

i'll still login to socialize with guildies tho. maybe on my lv18 Warden.

Cadbury · September 2019

I guess I could just run my magDk without Burning Embers and Engulfing Flame.

I'll just use Flame Lash, Coagulating Blood, and whatever the mag version of Stonefist. All set

Banana · September 2019

Cadbury wrote: »

I guess I could just run my magDk without Burning Embers and Engulfing Flame.

I'll just use Flame Lash, Coagulating Blood, and whatever the mag version of Stonefist. All set

Ive been contemplating dropping burning embers myself. But what to use instead that has provided me with damage and a oh *** heal since beta. Zos you suck and gilliam youre lucky youre not on the youtube anymore

Cadbury · September 2019

Banana wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

I guess I could just run my magDk without Burning Embers and Engulfing Flame.

I'll just use Flame Lash, Coagulating Blood, and whatever the mag version of Stonefist. All set

Ive been contemplating dropping burning embers myself. But what to use instead that has provided me with damage and a oh *** heal since beta. Zos you suck and gilliam youre lucky youre not on the youtube anymore

I'm hoping Coag Blood works comparable to BE for me. At this point, I'm even considering adding Prox det and Mystic Orb.

Master_Shorty · September 2019

Imo what's happening here is zos is trying to find a balance between pvp builds & pve builds, but NOT considering that by keeping the two separated, balancing all classes in pve is rather easy, and then balancing all classes in pvp is easy. I as well as others have been saying this for years now, zos doesn't care about its player base of they would have separated the two by now, plain & simple. I play a stam DK MT build as a secondary character, but if zos doesn't pull their heads out of the sand soon i will be deleting it as well as all my other toons

I came to ESO because friends of mine said that zos actually listened to its player base, in the past 2 years i have seen absolutely NOTHING but the opposite. If your goal is to kill the game zos, you are doing a stand up job of it, and if others dont agree, just watch the live streams & these forum feeds, 95% of ALL questions do NOT get answered (COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE). please Please PLEASE prove me wrong zos, we as a player base are getting fed up

SapAndFury · September 2019

PvP oriented comments

I am pretty deflated as well. None of our dots will be viable at all next patch, and our main burst outside of an ultimate (molten whip) depends on us first lining up 3 completely useless skills. Lol, maybe you could cast inferno 3 times...

Also, I think the engulfing flames change is garbage. We finally get magicka equivalents to Hulking Draugr and Bone Pirate, and we are forced to build spell damage or else lose 10% of our damage. Not to mention Elemental Succession and Silks of the Sun won’t count satisfy the spell damage requirement because they are not on your stat sheet.

I will say it over and over: all that they needed to do was revert their overbuff of Entropy and Soul Trap rather than gutting all other forms of single target dot damage. Instead they are making reckless decisions that are going to cost them a whole year to balance out.

TrinityBreaker · September 2019

@Canned_Apples I'm saying that because you came in here with the same line that almost every magblade/snipe spammer ever said. It was not OP, it was expensive to cast and then and now MagDK cant keep it up as some would have you believe.

Expert · September 2019

What I don't understand is the continuous sustain nerfs for magicka Dragonknights, it has been snowballing down the hill with increased cost and weakened damage. What is a DK supposed to achieve? They can only tank and stall but contribute nothing to groups, there's no AOE cc', aoe burst, or control. DK was supposed to be the god of brawlers, you're at a MASSIVE disadvantage if you're caught within a DK's distance, but now... You can outrun a DK, out cc (stun, snare, root) a DK, out sustain a DK, and of course out damage a DK. There's nothing unique to being a dragonknight except for leap, thats it... Lol while templar crescent hits harder than dragon leap and can be instant damage with such lower cost. Also procs burning light and pulsates a DOT continuously burning through your survivability. As far as I know, DK volatile armor buff does more damage than 90% of all DK skills. That's a pretty big oopsie

To put that into perspective, that's saying boundless armor on sorcerer does more damage than sorc skills. Lol

big F for Dragonknights, their existence plummeting further down into the drain.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Please, control gilliam and stop him from throwing bias developer content into the community that nobody asked for.

ku5h · September 2019

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

@Canned_Apples I'm saying that because you came in here with the same line that almost every magblade/snipe spammer ever said. It was not OP, it was expensive to cast and then and now MagDK cant keep it up as some would have you believe.

Try investing into sustain and don't rely on your passives to cover you.

Ashanne · September 2019

Banana wrote: »

Ive been contemplating dropping burning embers myself. But what to use instead that has provided me with damage and a oh *** heal since beta. Zos you suck and gilliam youre lucky youre not on the youtube anymore

How was embers your reliable heal since beta when it got buffed to do what it does now in thieves guild dlc 2016?

Banana · September 2019

Ashanne wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Ive been contemplating dropping burning embers myself. But what to use instead that has provided me with damage and a oh *** heal since beta. Zos you suck and gilliam youre lucky youre not on the youtube anymore

How was embers your reliable heal since beta when it got buffed to do what it does now in thieves guild dlc 2016?

For as long as i remember then. Yes Im old.

Ashanne · September 2019

this only proves who the "dk mains" are...no idea what they are talking about...

and u also stated exactly whats wrong with that exact skill ...enjoy the next patch "dk mains"

Zer0_CooL · September 2019

Does anyone have a source of an official statement from ZOS stating they'd focus on class identety with this update?

Ragnarock41 · September 2019

When people talk about sorcs or Dks, the first thing that will come to mind is the magicka counterparts and people will automatically assume you're talking about magsorc or magDk, that is all you need to know about stamina counterparts for these classes. When we wanted ''identity'' for stamsorc/stamDK, we didn't ask to be overpowered, rather than that most of us wanted flavor changes and some cool looking skills that would set us apart.(I said cool looking so stonefist DOES NOT count)

Even though that is the case, stamDk was allright all things considered, venomous claws and noxious breath were two dots that historically NEVER EVER overperformed, even in U23 , It was the ranged dots people mostly complained about. And what made stamDK an OP 1v1 class was the combination of SnB reverb bash+heroic slash combo and how the dots+corrosive armor synergized with it all. All of those things are nerfed heavily now and onslaught is available to everyone.

Its ridicilous that all the people crying about how OP corrosive was don't even talk about onslaught cause their classes can use it aswell. Now this is the definition of clear bias.

And in a meta where DOTS WERE OVERPERFORMING, Dks did not overperform. Despite this fact Dk dots were dumpstered. Unlike magDk we don't even have other options like inhale or whip or anything, since SnB spammables and 2h spammables were also nerfed.

Edit: Oh wait.. is this why we got stonefist? Maybe it was all planned

So essentially Gilliam took stamDk, and gave it identity by turning into a paleolitic rock throwing caveman. Might aswell rename it to *** neanderthalensis.

Asgari · September 2019

DK in general is the stand your ground class and wear you down. All they can do now is stand their ground. No class skills to wear you down and in a meta coming where you need burst to win they have none and zero execute unless stam weapons.

Its a pretty sad state of affair for the DK community with how things are panning out.

I never in all the time this previous update was like damn that DK wrecked me. It was other classes like magplar that were shredding through people.

but hey they get a bubble that roots on cooldown and we get a fist that does practically 0 dps and takes 5 hits to stun if it even lands on the target.

Davadin · September 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

most of us wanted flavor changes and some cool looking skills that would set us apart.(I said cool looking so stonefist DOES NOT count).

hey come on, i think its pretty cool.

Ragnarock41 · September 2019

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

most of us wanted flavor changes and some cool looking skills that would set us apart.(I said cool looking so stonefist DOES NOT count).

hey come on, i think its pretty cool.

Obviously, I have garbage taste. **** it, We all have garbage taste, only Gilliam knows whats best for us paleolithic chimpanzees.

Xvorg · September 2019

Well, DK has been like this since Morrowind. Nerf, after nerf, after nerf. Only some small buffs to be nerfed the next patch.

The class wasn't overperforming at all. Yes, it had very lackluser mobility that was compensated with tankiness, and in terms of dmg, Whip was a very good skill, especially when power lash was not a dodgeable skill. That was, for me, the first nail in the coffin: a sloww class that struggles with mobility and resource recovery, whose hard hitting morph (which requires very especific rules to be used) becomes a dodgeable skill. After that, mDK wasn't fun anymore.

In the case of sDKs, they were never, ever overperforming. They were forced to run fury+7th legion to be viable somehow. Whith the change to both sets, then everyone can see what sDKs are. It could have been the best weapon skill line based class, but ZoS missed that opportunity.

There's no way I'll take my DKs to cyro anymore... it's just pointless.