DragonKnights are officially Extinct!

zParallaxz · September 2019

Canned_Apples wrote: »

@MaskedHuman Wings were broken because they completely shut down magBlades.
No, spamming Concealed Weapon was not a viable play style.

I’ve played against many magblades and also play magblade myself. People who share your opinion always say that magblade is shut down completely, however I beg to differ. I’ve fought a fair share of skilled magblades who can fight equally against wings, I’ve fought magblades without wings who still melt, and I’ve fought magblades while using wings where the fight becomes a stalemate. The fight usually entails either the magblade trying to keep distance away from the magdk with cripple and ensuing a full ranged burst rotation if the dk isn’t using wings. In this situation the dk can’t do anything but stand and try to tank long enough to get close.

The other scenario is the dk is using wings close to off cool down and now the magblade has to be cautious what skills it uses. The way the magblade wins this fight is by kiting out the wings and setting a burst combo. Or the dk who is vigorously using wings will soon run out of magicka, keeping wings up is far harder than maintaining cloak. Wings was a necessary evil to combat ranged builds to comfortable with spamming their abilities with no consequences.

Ragnarock41 · September 2019

Asgari wrote: »

DK in general is the stand your ground class and wear you down. All they can do now is stand their ground. No class skills to wear you down and in a meta coming where you need burst to win they have none and zero execute unless stam weapons.

Its a pretty sad state of affair for the DK community with how things are panning out.

I never in all the time this previous update was like damn that DK wrecked me. It was other classes like magplar that were shredding through people.

but hey they get a bubble that roots on cooldown and we get a fist that does practically 0 dps and takes 5 hits to stun if it even lands on the target.

Oh yes, a ranged rock, for the immobile class that needs to get in melee range to do anything else anyways.

Xvorg · September 2019

zParallaxz wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

@MaskedHuman Wings were broken because they completely shut down magBlades.
No, spamming Concealed Weapon was not a viable play style.

I’ve played against many magblades and also play magblade myself. People who share your opinion always say that magblade is shut down completely, however I beg to differ. I’ve fought a fair share of skilled magblades who can fight equally against wings, I’ve fought magblades without wings who still melt, and I’ve fought magblades while using wings where the fight becomes a stalemate. The fight usually entails either the magblade trying to keep distance away from the magdk with cripple and ensuing a full ranged burst rotation if the dk isn’t using wings. In this situation the dk can’t do anything but stand and try to tank long enough to get close.

The other scenario is the dk is using wings close to off cool down and now the magblade has to be cautious what skills it uses. The way the magblade wins this fight is by kiting out the wings and setting a burst combo. Or the dk who is vigorously using wings will soon run out of magicka, keeping wings up is far harder than maintaining cloak. Wings was a necessary evil to combat ranged builds to comfortable with spamming their abilities with no consequences.

on my Mageblade I used to kill DKs with wings. The reflect was easily countered with cloak and the trick was to force the DK to burn his magicka.

Off course, NBs that have never played DK will have a very hard time figuring that.

zParallaxz · September 2019

Cadbury wrote: »

I guess I could just run my magDk without Burning Embers and Engulfing Flame.

I'll just use Flame Lash, Coagulating Blood, and whatever the mag version of Stonefist. All set

The sad part is your not joking, there are legit better things to slot than those two class skills

lucky_Sage · September 2019

Canned_Apples wrote: »

@MaskedHuman Wings were broken because they completely shut down magBlades.
No, spamming Concealed Weapon was not a viable play style.

A good magblade could kill a Magdk. All magblades has to do was time there fear and I gut as you’d popped wings and then hit your burst. You just had to think about when to time it. Not just throw your abilities out mindlessly

Delparis · September 2019

Major mending + vigor : i dont call it extinct

zParallaxz · September 2019

Xvorg wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

@MaskedHuman Wings were broken because they completely shut down magBlades.
No, spamming Concealed Weapon was not a viable play style.

I’ve played against many magblades and also play magblade myself. People who share your opinion always say that magblade is shut down completely, however I beg to differ. I’ve fought a fair share of skilled magblades who can fight equally against wings, I’ve fought magblades without wings who still melt, and I’ve fought magblades while using wings where the fight becomes a stalemate. The fight usually entails either the magblade trying to keep distance away from the magdk with cripple and ensuing a full ranged burst rotation if the dk isn’t using wings. In this situation the dk can’t do anything but stand and try to tank long enough to get close.

The other scenario is the dk is using wings close to off cool down and now the magblade has to be cautious what skills it uses. The way the magblade wins this fight is by kiting out the wings and setting a burst combo. Or the dk who is vigorously using wings will soon run out of magicka, keeping wings up is far harder than maintaining cloak. Wings was a necessary evil to combat ranged builds to comfortable with spamming their abilities with no consequences.

on my Mageblade I used to kill DKs with wings. The reflect was easily countered with cloak and the trick was to force the DK to burn his magicka.

Off course, NBs that have never played DK will have a very hard time figuring that.

Someone made a comment saying, “is the dk just gonna stand there”. Believe it or not, when you fight someone who’s never experienced fighting against a effective counter combo they actually tend to “just stand there” metaphorically. You will know you’ve caught someone with their pants down when they start back pedaling and they will desperately try to defensively stun you to break your offense pressure. But if you keep that pressure up and start to block cast you skills, some opponents start to lock up.

Emma_Overload · September 2019

SapAndFury wrote: »

PvP oriented comments

I am pretty deflated as well. None of our dots will be viable at all next patch, and our main burst outside of an ultimate (molten whip) depends on us first lining up 3 completely useless skills. Lol, maybe you could cast inferno 3 times...

Also, I think the engulfing flames change is garbage. We finally get magicka equivalents to Hulking Draugr and Bone Pirate, and we are forced to build spell damage or else lose 10% of our damage. Not to mention Elemental Succession and Silks of the Sun won’t count satisfy the spell damage requirement because they are not on your stat sheet.

I will say it over and over: all that they needed to do was revert their overbuff of Entropy and Soul Trap rather than gutting all other forms of single target dot damage. Instead they are making reckless decisions that are going to cost them a whole year to balance out.

Nah, that doesn't sound too good. They just need to reduce the DOT damage to something like 1.5x of spammables (instead of the current 2X), and the crying from both PvE and PvP will pretty much stop. Reverting just Entropy and Soul Trap to uselessness isn't really good for anybody. It definitely doesn't help classes who never enjoyed the benefits of DOT pressure before now. The DOT meta, for all the crying, was one of the first tiny baby steps towards balancing Stamina and Magicka, so reverting all of it would be a painful step backwards.

SilverPaws · September 2019

Once again we were proved that Zenimax doesn't know anything about they're game and has no vision

Davadin · September 2019

Delparis wrote: »

Major mending + vigor : i dont call it extinct

of course. you're absolutely right.

if patch notes goes live, we are Critically Endangered.

if it doesn't get any better than that, we'll extinct by x-mas.

SilverPaws · September 2019

Delparis wrote: »

Major mending + vigor : i dont call it extinct

Stamdk damage was absolutely gutted this patch so they won't be usable anymore, but dummy Delparis must talk about they're good healing

Jodynn · September 2019

Everything is kind of extinct; I mean stam users using vMA staff backbar lmao.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · September 2019

My 1st character was a DK. Over the years and through the various nerfs and buffs, I've converted him to a MagDK and really only use him as my GM crafter. I haven't used him as an actual adventurer for years now.

Jodynn · September 2019

Honestly magDK is in a great spot on live, in fact the highest parsing mag class ( which stam is above because they get benefits which is tilting because I am also melee but... whatever ) , DoT damage is a little ridiculous but it is for everyone given the generic DoTs, on PTS it's bad but then again so is everything else.

Kadoin · September 2019

Dueling on the PTS mag DK and stam DK are not too bad, but it is near impossible to kill good players without being a literal god and outplaying them. If you only need a 1-star worth of experience in PvP to play them on live now, with the PTS changes you will need about 10 to 15 stars, even with proc sets like overwhelming to crutch on.

LuxLunae · September 2019

Expert wrote: »

The title says it all, after multiple patches beating DK until it was lifeless and unresponsive, ZOS finally said they'd focus on class identity, especially DK's.

Glad they came out around the other side of their comment and decided to nerf DK's into one of the most useless and over nerfed class in ESO history.

When you are focusing on identity within DK, it's not very logical to take away all the firepower it has behind DOT's. I'm not saying DOT's should be overpowered, but let them remain in a position of power to have the upper hand when it comes to dots compared to Soul Trap and Entropy. Where is the sustain being overtuned for DK's? You keep raising the cost and compensating them nothing in return. Remember the mindset you guys once had, if you nerf something u gotta compensate it back somehow 1 way or the other. Dk's haven't gotten compensated for any of these nerfs for several patches.

The idea is simply gone, everything beautiful that used to be a good touch for DK's is gone. The damage, the potential, is now nothingness.

DK's are officially the biggest stall, with no potential to really contain/pressure/CC players as a Templar with such a powerful identity can do beyond that. Templars... Beat everything.

BOOM BABY

I'd strongly reconsider looking into DK's and reworking them this patch, waiting the next few patches for action to be taken is a suicide route.

DK's need more attention and light after these last few dark patches all favorable in bias of templars. A lot may have to do with Gilliam, but I ain't calling the shots... Lets just be real, Gilliam needs to step down or be less bias towards his playstyle and tastes, the entire game doesn't revolve around him or his mindset when it comes to balance changes. There are far more competitive players that'd like to chip in ideas, but when you shut them down and fall back on the "audit" excuse, you are forcing unfair and disadvantageous balance changes.

From the bottom of my heart and with the deepest concern for the game, please do not ruin it or manipulate our hope into disappointment just so we can follow through with your audit ideas. There's a trend among many thriving games, and it all starts with listening to your community. That is just beyond these forums too, being more engaged as a part of a community is far different than listening to words or reading words. Ever tried having a conversation with somebody u don't know and understand their perspective and their thought process behind these ideas? As far as I'm aware, forum is a place to go complain for nerfs and balance, but not everyone is perfect on the forums. And a vast majority of people will act out of anger and lack of insight into the opinion they're stating such as Nerfs , or buffs, or situations that annoy them.

I'm being humble as a sorc main, giving constructive feedback, and DK's need to be looked into and placed into something unique that they can use from that standpoint to kill something. Something more unique that a templar ALREADY doesn't have.

The game will not blossom if the ZOS team doesn't water the flowers of its community. Mark my words

-Ex

QQ much?(This was about magDK? I don't play mag anything so this might be just a bunch of noise below)...get over yourself...You obviously don't know how to use your class...

Nowadays on my templar I don't even use power of the light...I only have like 23k stamina... Jabs were ok (not sure how they are with direct damage) in fact I actually removed jabs for dizzy swing when it still had the knock back and stun...

Of course now that they removed stun, I thought "ok no problem I will go onto dots" I went to go see how badly they nerfed dots and it was pretty bad.

My templar was rendered useless.

So then, I slotted on onslaught....

Now I
1. Dance around waiting for my ulti gauge to fill up
2. Throw fake jabs so that they don't see me drop barbed trap (for the crit bonus and immobilization since we don't have a class one)
3. Once they spring the trap Throw in dizzy swing
4. Throw some fake jabs to get another barbed trap down
5. Once the trap springs use heavy attack..If off balance ended dizzy then heavy.
6. Onslaught.
If their health is above execute jab some more and repeat 1 thru 6.
7. jab/2h dizzy to heavy if needed
8. switch bar
9. Spin to win anim cancel.

Some might be able to get better results with execute...Some wardens and such are holding up block while I spin and letting their heals top them back off rendering the assault useless...

I more or less do the same for NB.

Instead of throwing fake jabs I just put the trap down in stealth and purposely go out of stealth.. they love running to me every time...

I usually gain all my resourses fast when I am in stealth...

Canned_Apples · September 2019

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

@Canned_Apples I'm saying that because you came in here with the same line that almost every magblade/snipe spammer ever said. It was not OP, it was expensive to cast and then and now MagDK cant keep it up as some would have you believe.

@TrinityBreaker

There was such an outcry because it was so oped.
I never had trouble keeping mine up.

*I don't main a magblade, and have never bothered with a stamblade*

Philtho · September 2019

DoTs have traditionally always been overpowered. It's the entire point behind them. Low cost, high damage. So what's the drawback? Oh yeah, it takes a long time to do. It's in the name.

Don't ever think DoTs shouldn't be overpowered, it's why they exist. It is their foundation.

The Uninvited · September 2019

Please remove this lorebook from the game, I feel silly reading it as a DK main...

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/To_Smite_with_Dragon_Claws

ZarkingFrued · September 2019

Nerfing engulfing really put the nail in the coffin for me. The one way we had to increase damage now requires insane spell damage. Dudes, seriously, play BDO

Xarc · September 2019

Main stam DK too.

Best time was 1.5 anyway.
Today, all has been nerfed for DKs ; dots, wings, engulfing , main usable sets, weapons... Class identity destroyed, loss of fun.

Sennecca · September 2019

I went into pts and took my toons as is, without trial gear to review the skills and see what changes might work with the direction they seem to be taking the game. I did not change cp's or gear around, didn't buff... just checked a few rotations on the mag dk and realized that :

1.)I found my mag pool is drained ridiculously fast.. I am going to have to weave a lot more heavy attacks or have more spell regen enchants which will lower my dps even more.

2.) IMO burning embers & most dots in the dk toolkit and are now a useless skills in the pts unless slotting them for the passives. on the pts, the burning embers gave my mag dk approx a 1k dps per second dot. This is not an aoe, but single target dot. On live it was twice that for less cost.

Unfortunately for the mag dk, almost all of their skills are dots and have the low damage over time effect. The closest thing to a class spammable the mag dk has in their toolkit is the molten whip. the burst damage they can put out is abysmal,and if they go for more survivability, or for more regen, their damage will be even worse. Molten whip pales in comparison to other mag class spammables since it does not do the damage other classes have on their spammables and they has to be in melee range to activate it. So while my mag dk can (from range) fire off..a force pulse... (or run up to someone real fast to try to activate a lot of high cost slow/low ticking dots and activate the whip (then run out of magicka while they watch the 1-2k damage per dot per second tick away)...

my sorc can deliver a haunting curse (only non dot part counted) force pulse and crystal frag to deal over 34k (unbuffed-no food, also no trial gear) damage in a few seconds because they are not dots.

This is not even looking at other classes such as the warden or templar. Unless mag dk is given some more burst damage or a few faster ticking dots, i think they will have a very difficult time competing against other classes with dots that deal 1k damage per second single and aoe target.

I don't main a mag dk. It's an alt. However, what i see from the pts is that
Across the board dot nerfing lowered one or two skills on most classes so they will do slightly less damage but they still have some non dot skills in their kit. However, on a mag dk where 95% of their skills are dot, this:

"Adjusted the standards from Damage over Time abilities to no longer deal approximately 2.5x the damage of a traditional “spammable” attack, such as Force Shock or Lava Whip, and now deal approximately 1.25x the damage over their duration. Specific changes will be listed in the skill line section.
Area of Effect Damage over Time abilities will now once again mirror the damage of their single target counterparts, instead of dealing approximately 33% less damage. To ensure they do not always beat out their single target counterpart, they will now cost approximately 66% more resources per second to maintain than their single target counterparts, up from 30%. Their standard durations have increased to 10 seconds from 8 seconds as well."

As well as an increase magicka cost hits them extremely hard.

Dedricus · September 2019

SilverPaws wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Major mending + vigor : i dont call it extinct

Stamdk damage was absolutely gutted this patch so they won't be usable anymore, but dummy Delparis must talk about they're good healing

Why IS Delparis so dumb?

D0PAMINE · September 2019

Ashanne wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Ive been contemplating dropping burning embers myself. But what to use instead that has provided me with damage and a oh *** heal since beta. Zos you suck and gilliam youre lucky youre not on the youtube anymore

How was embers your reliable heal since beta when it got buffed to do what it does now in thieves guild dlc 2016?

Because it was cheap

Guyle · September 2019

The Uninvited wrote: »

Please remove this lorebook from the game, I feel silly reading it as a DK main...

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/To_Smite_with_Dragon_Claws

I was thinking, they probably won't remove the lorebook, but some major editing would be necessary:

We are Dragon (Nuggets). We are (nothing like) Dragons.

If you attack us, you will meet (ratty hang nails).

If you strike us, you will (taste victory).

If you injure us, our wounds will close (for a little while).

If you anger us, you will (be slightly singed).

If you run from us, we will (wonder what in the hell for).

You cannot (lose). We cannot (win).

We are dragon (imposters). We are (not) Dragons.

Davadin · September 2019

The Uninvited wrote: »

Please remove this lorebook from the game, I feel silly reading it as a DK main...

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/To_Smite_with_Dragon_Claws

this just gave me a brilliant idea.

guys.. .guys..... and girls...

listen...

are you ready?

how about..........

are you *** ready?

How. About.

We make Dragon Leap 50% reduced ulti-cost?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam if you make this, we'll forgive ANYTHING you did/do/will do with the class. ANYTHING.

Expert · September 2019

DK's just need more attention!

Xarc · September 2019

soon, DK will only be legends to scare childen

Ragnarock41 · September 2019

Xarcus wrote: »

soon, DK will only be legends to scare childen

Dks will be back to troll tank builds with crest and whatever the hell is the best set that synergizes with troll king. Thats some people's idea of fun, but not mine.

Guyle · September 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Xarcus wrote: »

soon, DK will only be legends to scare childen

Dks will be back to troll tank builds with crest and whatever the hell is the best set that synergizes with troll king. Thats some people's idea of fun, but not mine.

Oof, immortal meme builds that serve the purpose of nothing more than a distraction, fun!