[PvP] mDK changes in 3.3.2

Feanor · January 2018

FlamingBeard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I'll weigh in my two cents worth:

I've used mDK in PVE and PVP (to include dueling, AvA, and BGs). You have to utilize different skills/setups for BGs and AvA. While I actually think that @DDuke has a great dueling/BGs setup- I don't think it would work for all out AvA fights. Yes, it'll definitely work against a couple of opponents who are separated from the zerg. I've battled people like @Thogard and his buddies in BGs and you have to be very decisive on your combat and timing.

It works in AvA, but it doesn't tank zergs like S&B builds - you pick your targets more carefully but kill them twice as fast as a S&B build would. Just requires a different playstyle that most mDKs that have gotten used to S&B tanking aren't used to.

I have a video full of AvA fights with this build (from 1v2s to 1v5+ fights) & I've no cause to complain about its AvA performance.

Duels on the other hand... let's just say I'm not very fond of the combination of Troll King+heavy armor/S&B (but then again, apart from pet sorcs who is?).

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I do not like the niche build of using a lightning staff for perma-spamming Flame Lash, either. I would absolutely hate it if a Warden/Sorc/Templar could spam me with Shalks/Frags/Dark Flare with no slight delay in between.

I think the best compromise of the flame lash ability for PVE, AvA, BG, and dueling would be:

-Keep flame lash as dodgable- but have powerlash as undodgable. Remember: mDKs do not have an execute. We've got to put some sort of unpurgable pressure on an opponent.

-Make Powerlash on a 2 second cooldown. It'll pair well with the 2 second heal from Powerlash. Also, only having a two second cool down will allow you to move to multiple targets (while using talons) to proc it on surrounding enemies. It'll also discourage DKs from proccing multiple Powerlashes on a single enemy.

So you'd have it exactly as it is on Live (where most dodge roll builds don't live past the first Fossilize, and none live more than 20 seconds), except that mDKs would be able to Power Lash 2,5x more often and it would no longer remove Off Balance?

And you honestly think that wouldn't make the remaining medium armor scrubs quit the game?

Look, I get it... we all want to be super op, survive everything, kill everyone, only buffs no nerfs yadda yadda.

That's not how things work. You look at the big picture and see what's good for the game in general, not just what's good for mDKs.

Also, Power Lash has a 4 second heal now (with 2x stronger tooltip) now btw.

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Side Note: Why do people keep saying that Burning Embers isn't dodgable? I can confirm that during fights I've been unable to tag people with Burning Embers. Usually the enemy is running Shuffle on their bar. My mDK will make a half-assed swat movement and not apply Burning Embers to them. Also- the tooltip doesn't say "This ability cannot be dodged."

Well, just tested it again (on a stamblade with Major Evasion active), not dodgeable with normal dodge roll & not dodgeable with Major Evasion (spammed Embers around 40 times for a good sample size).

Don't take this as flaming, it's just that many people have some misconceptions (like that Embers thing above) on how mDK functions in PvP & I'm here to correct them.

Good luck getting that 4 second heal from anyone that knows how to survive and avoid MagDK burst (which might as well be considered effortless next patch with Power Lash being dodgeable).

There’s simply no way around it: Power Lash itself needs to remain undodgeable.

I'm getting the 4s heal all the time on PTS against heavy armor block builds & dmg shield builds that can't afford dodging. I'm also landing them frequently on medium builds just by swapping my rotations and being unpredictable (the only part of mDK burst you can actually avoid is that Power Lash).

FlamingBeard wrote: »

If you dodge the first Flame Lash, congratulations, you’ve prevented Power Lash from activating altogether! THAT is all the counterplay necessary for that skill, and saying otherwise is simply pandering to Medium glass armor builds who want to do twice the damage of a MagDK in half the time AND be able to dodge all of MagDK’s effective burst.

You can't avoid the first Flame Lash because it comes straight after Fossilize (CC), which is cast on target every 6 seconds if you're any good at this game.

How can you stun someone every 6 seconds?

Did you somehow break through the 7 second CC immunity after breaking CC?

Keep in mind that with immovable potions, you can avoid many Power Lash procs already on Live, and even with the immovable potion nerf next update, the new Power Lash cooldown and dodgeability together will give the opponent a much bigger window to recover than on Live.

CC immunity is 6 seconds. Another misconception to correct I suppose.

And yes, you can get to live an extra few seconds with immov pots on Live too, though you'd probably preferably use those for the heal after a mDK has chains+empower leap'd you for most of your health pool

As I said, even with dodgeable Power Lash, mDK is still destroying dodge rollers (though it's sliiightly more manageable for them now).

Woah there buddy LOL

I play magicka Templar and I've had the pleasure of dealing with plenty of terrible and below-average MagDKs.

One of the very few magDKs that can dent my health is @KaiserKnight because he's good enough of a player to work around Templar's cleansing effects.

Most magDKs are lucky to get in 2 or three dots on my health bar let alone stun, immobilize, Flame Lash, and then Power Lash me. lol

Medium armor builds are not MEANT to have many counters to magDKs because magDKs are partial counters to THEM.

Like I've said before, the counters to magDK have always been range, mobility, or Templars.

And one of the counters to a Templar's burst is, guess what, magDK!

They complement each others' weaknesses and strengths when playing together, and they nearly completely checkmate one another when playing against one another.

So you keep spreading your whiny "b- b- but I can't dodge this melee ranged damage that I walked right into!!!" and we'll continue shaking our heads.

I was 4th I believe in a big EU dueling tournament. The last qualifying round before I lost to a pet sorc was against a player who is considered one of best magplars (if not the best magplar) in EU.

I find magplars a slightly favoured match up for my build (the only unfavoured ones are TK Heavy Armor stam builds & pet sorcs).

With destro staff you're constantly debuffing them with Burning status effect, BSW proc, Embers, Minor Vulnerability procs etc and they can't keep up with cleanses, not without risking losing to burst or running out of magicka.

One of the biggest reasons I'm playing a destro/resto build is being able to burst down pug healers before they ruin your day. S&B builds cannot (usually) do this.

I'm sorry you're not finding success with your mDK and refuse to listen to people who do (especially on PTS). I can't help with that so I'm done with this circular conversation where mDK being overpowered against dodge roll builds is justified by "they're supposed to be".

You have your extremely questionable opinion on how magDK should be balanced, but the majority here has a rather consistent one which deems that Power Lash needs more revision before it can go to Live.

I'll agree with the magDKs who have been playing for years, some since the game launched, before I listen to a Nightblade main who went for a test drive on a magDK for a couple days.

The opinion of "magDKs who have been playing for years" isn't very convincing either if they think classes being hard counters for other classes are good for a game.

usmcjdking · January 2018

The issues with power lash were issues with off balance.

And instead of making off balance less stupid, they nerf powerlash - one of the few abilities that have any special interactions with off balance.

There is nothing they can do to 'fix' power lash because power lash isn't what's even broken here.

DDuke · January 2018

Feanor wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I'll weigh in my two cents worth:

I've used mDK in PVE and PVP (to include dueling, AvA, and BGs). You have to utilize different skills/setups for BGs and AvA. While I actually think that @DDuke has a great dueling/BGs setup- I don't think it would work for all out AvA fights. Yes, it'll definitely work against a couple of opponents who are separated from the zerg. I've battled people like @Thogard and his buddies in BGs and you have to be very decisive on your combat and timing.

It works in AvA, but it doesn't tank zergs like S&B builds - you pick your targets more carefully but kill them twice as fast as a S&B build would. Just requires a different playstyle that most mDKs that have gotten used to S&B tanking aren't used to.

I have a video full of AvA fights with this build (from 1v2s to 1v5+ fights) & I've no cause to complain about its AvA performance.

Duels on the other hand... let's just say I'm not very fond of the combination of Troll King+heavy armor/S&B (but then again, apart from pet sorcs who is?).

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I do not like the niche build of using a lightning staff for perma-spamming Flame Lash, either. I would absolutely hate it if a Warden/Sorc/Templar could spam me with Shalks/Frags/Dark Flare with no slight delay in between.

I think the best compromise of the flame lash ability for PVE, AvA, BG, and dueling would be:

-Keep flame lash as dodgable- but have powerlash as undodgable. Remember: mDKs do not have an execute. We've got to put some sort of unpurgable pressure on an opponent.

-Make Powerlash on a 2 second cooldown. It'll pair well with the 2 second heal from Powerlash. Also, only having a two second cool down will allow you to move to multiple targets (while using talons) to proc it on surrounding enemies. It'll also discourage DKs from proccing multiple Powerlashes on a single enemy.

So you'd have it exactly as it is on Live (where most dodge roll builds don't live past the first Fossilize, and none live more than 20 seconds), except that mDKs would be able to Power Lash 2,5x more often and it would no longer remove Off Balance?

And you honestly think that wouldn't make the remaining medium armor scrubs quit the game?

Look, I get it... we all want to be super op, survive everything, kill everyone, only buffs no nerfs yadda yadda.

That's not how things work. You look at the big picture and see what's good for the game in general, not just what's good for mDKs.

Also, Power Lash has a 4 second heal now (with 2x stronger tooltip) now btw.

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Side Note: Why do people keep saying that Burning Embers isn't dodgable? I can confirm that during fights I've been unable to tag people with Burning Embers. Usually the enemy is running Shuffle on their bar. My mDK will make a half-assed swat movement and not apply Burning Embers to them. Also- the tooltip doesn't say "This ability cannot be dodged."

Well, just tested it again (on a stamblade with Major Evasion active), not dodgeable with normal dodge roll & not dodgeable with Major Evasion (spammed Embers around 40 times for a good sample size).

Don't take this as flaming, it's just that many people have some misconceptions (like that Embers thing above) on how mDK functions in PvP & I'm here to correct them.

Good luck getting that 4 second heal from anyone that knows how to survive and avoid MagDK burst (which might as well be considered effortless next patch with Power Lash being dodgeable).

There’s simply no way around it: Power Lash itself needs to remain undodgeable.

I'm getting the 4s heal all the time on PTS against heavy armor block builds & dmg shield builds that can't afford dodging. I'm also landing them frequently on medium builds just by swapping my rotations and being unpredictable (the only part of mDK burst you can actually avoid is that Power Lash).

FlamingBeard wrote: »

If you dodge the first Flame Lash, congratulations, you’ve prevented Power Lash from activating altogether! THAT is all the counterplay necessary for that skill, and saying otherwise is simply pandering to Medium glass armor builds who want to do twice the damage of a MagDK in half the time AND be able to dodge all of MagDK’s effective burst.

You can't avoid the first Flame Lash because it comes straight after Fossilize (CC), which is cast on target every 6 seconds if you're any good at this game.

How can you stun someone every 6 seconds?

Did you somehow break through the 7 second CC immunity after breaking CC?

Keep in mind that with immovable potions, you can avoid many Power Lash procs already on Live, and even with the immovable potion nerf next update, the new Power Lash cooldown and dodgeability together will give the opponent a much bigger window to recover than on Live.

CC immunity is 6 seconds. Another misconception to correct I suppose.

And yes, you can get to live an extra few seconds with immov pots on Live too, though you'd probably preferably use those for the heal after a mDK has chains+empower leap'd you for most of your health pool

As I said, even with dodgeable Power Lash, mDK is still destroying dodge rollers (though it's sliiightly more manageable for them now).

Woah there buddy LOL

I play magicka Templar and I've had the pleasure of dealing with plenty of terrible and below-average MagDKs.

One of the very few magDKs that can dent my health is @KaiserKnight because he's good enough of a player to work around Templar's cleansing effects.

Most magDKs are lucky to get in 2 or three dots on my health bar let alone stun, immobilize, Flame Lash, and then Power Lash me. lol

Medium armor builds are not MEANT to have many counters to magDKs because magDKs are partial counters to THEM.

Like I've said before, the counters to magDK have always been range, mobility, or Templars.

And one of the counters to a Templar's burst is, guess what, magDK!

They complement each others' weaknesses and strengths when playing together, and they nearly completely checkmate one another when playing against one another.

So you keep spreading your whiny "b- b- but I can't dodge this melee ranged damage that I walked right into!!!" and we'll continue shaking our heads.

I was 4th I believe in a big EU dueling tournament. The last qualifying round before I lost to a pet sorc was against a player who is considered one of best magplars (if not the best magplar) in EU.

I find magplars a slightly favoured match up for my build (the only unfavoured ones are TK Heavy Armor stam builds & pet sorcs).

With destro staff you're constantly debuffing them with Burning status effect, BSW proc, Embers, Minor Vulnerability procs etc and they can't keep up with cleanses, not without risking losing to burst or running out of magicka.

One of the biggest reasons I'm playing a destro/resto build is being able to burst down pug healers before they ruin your day. S&B builds cannot (usually) do this.

I'm sorry you're not finding success with your mDK and refuse to listen to people who do (especially on PTS). I can't help with that so I'm done with this circular conversation where mDK being overpowered against dodge roll builds is justified by "they're supposed to be".

You have your extremely questionable opinion on how magDK should be balanced, but the majority here has a rather consistent one which deems that Power Lash needs more revision before it can go to Live.

I'll agree with the magDKs who have been playing for years, some since the game launched, before I listen to a Nightblade main who went for a test drive on a magDK for a couple days.

The opinion of "magDKs who have been playing for years" isn't very convincing either if they think classes being hard counters for other classes are good for a game.

I know people who have been playing since the beta and still don't know how to animation cancel.

Playtime means jack[snip], some people are just bad.

Sharee · January 2018

DDuke wrote: »

CC immunity is 6 seconds. Another misconception to correct I suppose.

This is not correct. CC immunity is 7 seconds.

We know this because it had been said directly by the devs, in some patch notes about half a year ago (it was the patch that normalized CC immunity times between break-free immunity and CC-expire-immunity, which were 7 seconds and 5 seconds respectively. The patch notes explicitly stated that both are 7 seconds now).

DKsUnite · January 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

@DDuke

I think I just figured out why the Power Lash heal reads 4 seconds. It's an error. If you log into PTS under a new character- select the flame lash ability. Read the tooltip. It will say "2 seconds". Then, go to the passives and put two points into the "Searing Heat" passive. It'll add two seconds to your Power Lash heal. This is not intended. Searing Heat is not supposed to increase the duration of that ability by 2 seconds. It's supposed to increase the duration of Firey Breath, Searing Strike, and DK Standard. It's a bug.

As for this comment: "If you die to burst damage, your build is ill-optimized. It's as simple as that. No offense." The same can be said of a medium armor build.

I'd like to see you calculate a medium armor build that has a spammable heal/dmg (or Vigor/Rally strong enough) to consistently stay above the burst range against a mDK that will be glued to you 24/7 with Empowering Chains.

My own stam builds survive high dmg mDK burst (they've just enough health for that), but they don't survive high sustained, unavoidable damage - so you're dead within a few seconds no matter what.

Trust me, spent unhealthy amounts of time on Build Editor trying to find a silver bullet. One doesn't exist.

What does your math say when you get burst by 3 NBs for max damage?

Thogard · January 2018

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

CC immunity is 6 seconds. Another misconception to correct I suppose.

This is not correct. CC immunity is 7 seconds.

We know this because it had been said directly by the devs, in some patch notes about half a year ago (it was the patch that normalized CC immunity times between break-free immunity and CC-expire-immunity, which were 7 seconds and 5 seconds respectively. The patch notes explicitly stated that both are 7 seconds now).

yeah but one of those 7 seconds is wasted by the act of breaking free, so most people say 6.

from a reapplication point yeah its 7

edit; and booooo to savos for tagging me in this mdk thread. Cant i just be a cheesy stamden in peace? i dont wanna read all you cheese duelers arguing. Youre all immobile tanks to me that i avoid unless youre getting focused, in which case i dont care if you can cast whip every GCD or not

FlamingBeard · January 2018

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

CC immunity is 6 seconds. Another misconception to correct I suppose.

This is not correct. CC immunity is 7 seconds.

We know this because it had been said directly by the devs, in some patch notes about half a year ago (it was the patch that normalized CC immunity times between break-free immunity and CC-expire-immunity, which were 7 seconds and 5 seconds respectively. The patch notes explicitly stated that both are 7 seconds now).

Oh my god I knew I was right on that!

I just didn't feel like going all the way back to whichever patch notes I saw it in, I simply knew I had.

And Duke claims that I'm the one who doesn't know these things. lol

Feanor · January 2018

Actually CC immunity is closer to 0 seconds for how often it simply bugs out...

Quantum_V · January 2018

@DDuke

You clearly don't understand our point here.

Powerlash being undodgeable will affect mDKs beyond fighting squishy ill-built medium armor stamblades.

You got 0 experience on mDK (as far as watching your video several times shows). I haven't seen you overcome any root CD - which per say - is very easy to do on mDKs. I haven't seen you succesfully animation cancel a single powerlash. I've seen you struggle with resources on that first clip against a 25CP, 177CP players and on the verge of dying in almost every single encounter only to be saved by a resto ult.

From this I can conclude; you're not here to offer any reasonable feedback, you're here because you're probably tired of fighting mDKs - understandable after seeing you play a double-bow build (intersting build btw, props on that). I promise you I mean no offense, mean no attack or flaming to your persona, the reason I had to say this is only to precisely weight in arguments. Not saying you're a bad player BY ANY MEANS, I just think that atleast as mDK goes, you're experience is limited to numbers and theory (which you really excel at) and not familiar with the reality of AvA mDKs.

I'll say this over and over again, the issue with powerlash being dodgeable is that roots provoke an immediate rolldodge, which as beautifully posed by an earlier comment - this is easily counterable. Blocking and using shuffle with the CP passive that decreases the cost of the skill is a lot more helpful than rolldoding. You actually use up MORE stamina by rolldodging than blocking and getting away with a low costing shuffle use. Conclusion: yes, if you're hitting by powerlashes you're commiting foolish mistakes - and again - this boils down to experience issues.

DDuke · January 2018

DKsUnite wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

@DDuke

I think I just figured out why the Power Lash heal reads 4 seconds. It's an error. If you log into PTS under a new character- select the flame lash ability. Read the tooltip. It will say "2 seconds". Then, go to the passives and put two points into the "Searing Heat" passive. It'll add two seconds to your Power Lash heal. This is not intended. Searing Heat is not supposed to increase the duration of that ability by 2 seconds. It's supposed to increase the duration of Firey Breath, Searing Strike, and DK Standard. It's a bug.

As for this comment: "If you die to burst damage, your build is ill-optimized. It's as simple as that. No offense." The same can be said of a medium armor build.

I'd like to see you calculate a medium armor build that has a spammable heal/dmg (or Vigor/Rally strong enough) to consistently stay above the burst range against a mDK that will be glued to you 24/7 with Empowering Chains.

My own stam builds survive high dmg mDK burst (they've just enough health for that), but they don't survive high sustained, unavoidable damage - so you're dead within a few seconds no matter what.

Trust me, spent unhealthy amounts of time on Build Editor trying to find a silver bullet. One doesn't exist.

What does your math say when you get burst by 3 NBs for max damage?

My math says RIP me unless I'm blocking or got healing ulti ticking lol

I don't mind dying to such coordinated ganks, well played to my opponents. Main thing is that you don't die to one NB trying to gank you, that'd be embarrassing.

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

CC immunity is 6 seconds. Another misconception to correct I suppose.

This is not correct. CC immunity is 7 seconds.

We know this because it had been said directly by the devs, in some patch notes about half a year ago (it was the patch that normalized CC immunity times between break-free immunity and CC-expire-immunity, which were 7 seconds and 5 seconds respectively. The patch notes explicitly stated that both are 7 seconds now).

I'll take your word for it, good to know.

Quantum_V · January 2018

And can we get rid of the *** argument that they doubled the heal on powerlash.

THAT IS A BUG AND IS NOT INTENDED

That is obvious as it wasn't stated in the patch notes. Whoever is trying to use this argument is just out of any reasonable proposals and justification towards the unnecessary powerlash nerf and is resorting to GLITCHES to prove their point. That's not cool.

KaiserKnight · January 2018

@Quantum_V

Thank you for clarifying everything.

Feanor · January 2018

I'd find it interesting what the self-proclaimed DK experts want the class toolkit to be. From the posts here I figure it's something like deadly in melee range (CC galore, powerful DoTs and undodgeable power lash on top) while being untouchable by range with the fixes to wings. And that wouldn't be an issue and totally fine? For all the flak @DDuke has got in this thread - reading stuff from DK players here and in other threads (like wings should also purge snares) is even more ridiculous.

DDuke · January 2018

Quantum_V wrote: »

@DDuke

You clearly don't understand our point here.

Powerlash being undodgeable will affect mDKs beyond fighting squishy ill-built medium armor stamblades.

You got 0 experience on mDK (as far as watching your video several times shows). I haven't seen you overcome any root CD - which per say - is very easy to do on mDKs. I haven't seen you succesfully animation cancel a single powerlash. I've seen you struggle with resources on that first clip against a 25CP, 177CP players and on the verge of dying in almost every single encounter only to be saved by a resto ult.

I take it you haven't played destro/resto builds? Only S&B permablocking I suppose.

The animations and rotations are very different, you're not block or bash canceling as much as you can't sustain such things.

Also, light armor destro/resto DKs do tend to drop very low against enemy players, the key is knowing the burst your opponents can deal to you and when they can deal it to you.

If you can point me out to someone playing better and getting better results, please do. One can always learn something.

Quantum_V wrote: »

From this I can conclude; you're not here to offer any reasonable feedback, you're here because you're probably tired of fighting mDKs - understandable after seeing you play a double-bow build (intersting build btw, props on that). I promise you I mean no offense, mean no attack or flaming to your persona, the reason I had to say this is only to precisely weight in arguments. Not saying you're a bad player BY ANY MEANS, I just think that atleast as mDK goes, you're experience is limited to numbers and theory (which you really excel at) and not familiar with the reality of AvA mDKs.

I'm not the "AvA mDK" complaining about the class being "immobile", or afraid of medium stam builds after Power Lash is undodgeable.

I've spent several hours on PTS today still wrecking every medium build in duels and actually doing better against heavy armor TK builds and magblades/mSorcs thanks to the changes to Power Lash.

...and yes, I'd love to play my Bow/Bow NB & I will regardless of changes (ranged stamina builds have the luxury of having the option to stay ranged & avoid mDKs altogether). I will also play my bow sorc, my mNB, magplar (if I can come up with something) and any other build that interests me.

Quantum_V wrote: »

I'll say this over and over again, the issue with powerlash being dodgeable is that roots provoke an immediate rolldodge, which as beautifully posed by an earlier comment - this is easily counterable. Blocking and using shuffle with the CP passive that decreases the cost of the skill is a lot more helpful than rolldoding. You actually use up MORE stamina by rolldodging than blocking and getting away with a low costing shuffle use. Conclusion: yes, if you're hitting by powerlashes you're commiting foolish mistakes - and again - this boils down to experience issues.

If a stamblade uses Shuffle or tries to block (without S&B) after being hit by Chains->LA+Fossilize+LA+Flame Lash, he's super dead and below 50% stam pool, which leaves very little for the follow up dodge roll spam (which is countered by... you guessed it, Chains).

You don't want to Shuffle against mDKs in these situations, you want to Rally to not die a second later.

You seem to be living under the assumption that a stamina dodge roll build can survive more than a few seconds within mDK melee range, this is just not the case. In fact, I'll upload to youtube some PTS duels I've had vs medium armor builds.

Viewer discretion: it's not pretty for those who thought Power Lash alone would fix medium armor issues.

As to why you're under that assumption, my guess is that you play S&B tank DK and lack the dmg to kill them in few seconds.

While S&B might still be the most popular mDK build out there, it isn't the only one.

Changes to Power Lash have more wide-reaching effects than you probably realize.

DDuke · January 2018

Quantum_V wrote: »

And can we get rid of the *** argument that they doubled the heal on powerlash.

THAT IS A BUG AND IS NOT INTENDED

That is obvious as it wasn't stated in the patch notes. Whoever is trying to use this argument is just out of any reasonable proposals and justification towards the unnecessary powerlash nerf and is resorting to GLITCHES to prove their point. That's not cool.

And it is a damn shame if that's the case.

I feel 4s Power Lash on PTS is really giving mDKs a chance against Heavy Armor Clown King builds.

We'll see how it is as 2s if that is indeed a bug, should still be better than on Live since you can PL them twice per Fossilize.

Savos_Saren · January 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

CC immunity is 6 seconds. Another misconception to correct I suppose.

This is not correct. CC immunity is 7 seconds.

We know this because it had been said directly by the devs, in some patch notes about half a year ago (it was the patch that normalized CC immunity times between break-free immunity and CC-expire-immunity, which were 7 seconds and 5 seconds respectively. The patch notes explicitly stated that both are 7 seconds now).

yeah but one of those 7 seconds is wasted by the act of breaking free, so most people say 6.

from a reapplication point yeah its 7

edit; and booooo to savos for tagging me in this mdk thread. Cant i just be a cheesy stamden in peace? i dont wanna read all you cheese duelers arguing. Youre all immobile tanks to me that i avoid unless youre getting focused, in which case i dont care if you can cast whip every GCD or not

@Thogard

Pssssssh! You insult me with that dueler term. I specifically go to BGs to find you and your buddies. I either kill you with my PUGs or I die trying! I will say- it's hella fun running with you guys. But it's an act of masochism to fight against you all. @DDuke talks about pushing limits. Give him a few BGs amongst you knuckleheads.

kookster · January 2018

as far as I am concerned, this was the last nail in the coffin for magDK for me. I am race changing mine.

Moglijuana · January 2018

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

@DDuke

I think I just figured out why the Power Lash heal reads 4 seconds. It's an error. If you log into PTS under a new character- select the flame lash ability. Read the tooltip. It will say "2 seconds". Then, go to the passives and put two points into the "Searing Heat" passive. It'll add two seconds to your Power Lash heal. This is not intended. Searing Heat is not supposed to increase the duration of that ability by 2 seconds. It's supposed to increase the duration of Firey Breath, Searing Strike, and DK Standard. It's a bug.

As for this comment: "If you die to burst damage, your build is ill-optimized. It's as simple as that. No offense." The same can be said of a medium armor build.

Oh my god so his entire argument that “you now get a 4 second heal so you should be happy” is actually IRRELEVANT?

So Power Lash is REALLY going to be bad if it goes to Live the way they intend.

You also just ended his world with that last remark.

I knew that massive heal had to be BS. So we’re back at square one.

DDuke · January 2018

Moglijuana wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

@DDuke

I think I just figured out why the Power Lash heal reads 4 seconds. It's an error. If you log into PTS under a new character- select the flame lash ability. Read the tooltip. It will say "2 seconds". Then, go to the passives and put two points into the "Searing Heat" passive. It'll add two seconds to your Power Lash heal. This is not intended. Searing Heat is not supposed to increase the duration of that ability by 2 seconds. It's supposed to increase the duration of Firey Breath, Searing Strike, and DK Standard. It's a bug.

As for this comment: "If you die to burst damage, your build is ill-optimized. It's as simple as that. No offense." The same can be said of a medium armor build.

Oh my god so his entire argument that “you now get a 4 second heal so you should be happy” is actually IRRELEVANT?

So Power Lash is REALLY going to be bad if it goes to Live the way they intend.

You also just ended his world with that last remark.

I knew that massive heal had to be BS. So we’re back at square one.

Not exactly, on Live your maximum uptime of Power Lash heal is 40% (2s duration/5 Off Balance cooldown), unless playing a Lightning Staff build.

On PTS, it is 66.666...% (2s* duration /3s cooldown)

*4s still on PTS, it might take years for ZOS to fix, might take weeks - who knows.

Thogard · January 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

CC immunity is 6 seconds. Another misconception to correct I suppose.

This is not correct. CC immunity is 7 seconds.

We know this because it had been said directly by the devs, in some patch notes about half a year ago (it was the patch that normalized CC immunity times between break-free immunity and CC-expire-immunity, which were 7 seconds and 5 seconds respectively. The patch notes explicitly stated that both are 7 seconds now).

yeah but one of those 7 seconds is wasted by the act of breaking free, so most people say 6.

from a reapplication point yeah its 7

edit; and booooo to savos for tagging me in this mdk thread. Cant i just be a cheesy stamden in peace? i dont wanna read all you cheese duelers arguing. Youre all immobile tanks to me that i avoid unless youre getting focused, in which case i dont care if you can cast whip every GCD or not

@Thogard

Pssssssh! You insult me with that dueler term. I specifically go to BGs to find you and your buddies. I either kill you with my PUGs or I die trying! I will say- it's hella fun running with you guys. But it's an act of masochism to fight against you all. @DDuke talks about pushing limits. Give him a few BGs amongst you knuckleheads.

if he puts a group together i'd lvoe to queue up against him.

mostly solo queueing these days until we find another group to fight.

DDuke · January 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

CC immunity is 6 seconds. Another misconception to correct I suppose.

This is not correct. CC immunity is 7 seconds.

We know this because it had been said directly by the devs, in some patch notes about half a year ago (it was the patch that normalized CC immunity times between break-free immunity and CC-expire-immunity, which were 7 seconds and 5 seconds respectively. The patch notes explicitly stated that both are 7 seconds now).

yeah but one of those 7 seconds is wasted by the act of breaking free, so most people say 6.

from a reapplication point yeah its 7

edit; and booooo to savos for tagging me in this mdk thread. Cant i just be a cheesy stamden in peace? i dont wanna read all you cheese duelers arguing. Youre all immobile tanks to me that i avoid unless youre getting focused, in which case i dont care if you can cast whip every GCD or not

@Thogard

Pssssssh! You insult me with that dueler term. I specifically go to BGs to find you and your buddies. I either kill you with my PUGs or I die trying! I will say- it's hella fun running with you guys. But it's an act of masochism to fight against you all. @DDuke talks about pushing limits. Give him a few BGs amongst you knuckleheads.

if he puts a group together i'd lvoe to queue up against him.

mostly solo queueing these days until we find another group to fight.

Would be interesting, but I play on EU :P

Moglijuana · January 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

@DDuke

I think I just figured out why the Power Lash heal reads 4 seconds. It's an error. If you log into PTS under a new character- select the flame lash ability. Read the tooltip. It will say "2 seconds". Then, go to the passives and put two points into the "Searing Heat" passive. It'll add two seconds to your Power Lash heal. This is not intended. Searing Heat is not supposed to increase the duration of that ability by 2 seconds. It's supposed to increase the duration of Firey Breath, Searing Strike, and DK Standard. It's a bug.

As for this comment: "If you die to burst damage, your build is ill-optimized. It's as simple as that. No offense." The same can be said of a medium armor build.

Oh my god so his entire argument that “you now get a 4 second heal so you should be happy” is actually IRRELEVANT?

So Power Lash is REALLY going to be bad if it goes to Live the way they intend.

You also just ended his world with that last remark.

I knew that massive heal had to be BS. So we’re back at square one.

Not exactly, on Live your maximum uptime of Power Lash heal is 40% (2s duration/5 Off Balance cooldown), unless playing a Lightning Staff build.

On PTS, it is 66.666...% (2s* duration /3s cooldown)

*4s still on PTS, it might take years for ZOS to fix, might take weeks - who knows.

66.66 is where i would like it to be at. On live currently I don’t think think it’s enough of a HoT outside of 1v1. Especially now that it’s dodgeable. Good for counterplay sure, bad for overall Health of MagDk.

Stamden · January 2018

kookster wrote: »

as far as I am concerned, this was the last nail in the coffin for magDK for me. I am race changing mine.

To what, Stam DK? Yeah good luck with that too.

Class change token pls.

IZZEFlameLash · January 2018

Here I thought the mDK was already challenging to play... it now gets another nerf. As a mDK (not a good one though), I get shredded by plenty of medium armor users without being able to heal at least some of the damages (especially after getting some sorts of defile or quad health drain poisons). Now that powerlash is gone as is, I won't be able to put up a fight before my death or after catching the opponent offguard with my expensive skillsets that are now almost all dodgeable (except for engulfing flames).

Never been this concerned about nerfs before... please keep power lash undodgeable. It was one of the saving graces of mDK and the coolest animation it had (which won't be seen against anyone who knows to roll dodge).

Sharee · January 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

CC immunity is 6 seconds. Another misconception to correct I suppose.

This is not correct. CC immunity is 7 seconds.

We know this because it had been said directly by the devs, in some patch notes about half a year ago (it was the patch that normalized CC immunity times between break-free immunity and CC-expire-immunity, which were 7 seconds and 5 seconds respectively. The patch notes explicitly stated that both are 7 seconds now).

I'll take your word for it, good to know.

Normally i try to provide a source but i made that post at 1am local time, sorry. Here it is:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318838/pc-mac-patch-notes-v2-7-5
"Increased the duration of the crowd control immunity buff granted after a crowd control expires on you to 7 seconds from 5 seconds. This will now match the duration of the crowd-control immunity buff granted by Break Free."

Calboy · January 2018

@DDuke stay strong buddy, the mdk brotherhood is after you. They are a very sensitive bunch. Also I use a very similar build to yours and concur that destro/ resto far superior to the S&b monkeys.

Lord_Zele · January 2018

Grabs more Popcorn
Where did the juicy conversation go?

Jawasa · January 2018

How hard can it be just dont power lash the second you get off balance if your enemy dodge roll just use one of all your undodgable skills then power lash. Looking in here it seems like every skill that is dodgable is useless and every player is a medium build with 4K stam regen.

Jawasa · January 2018

@IZZESparkling if you have problems vs medium builds it's on you getting outplayed.

Subversus · January 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

KaiserKnight wrote: »

@DDuke

You are missing the point of all this.

The point is that NB's as @Lord_Hev are upset about mag DK's but it all comes down to how nb's build. If they are built as glass cannons and get killed or do not have the "skill" to avoid damage that's on them. I do not know about EU but NA has plenty of talented medium/heavy armor NBs who can kill great mag dks.

Just as your claim mag DK's can counter medium armor stam classes, they are capable of countering mag dks just as easily. All it takes is a few bleeds, snares, defile, cc, and tactics which is something "some" nightblades have. Once defile is on them their heals will greatly suffer.

Please don't give me the non-sense of the build editor, just about every "good" player uses it and knows what they are dealing with. But be honest with us you didn't do "math" to learn how to survive on your dk, you just spam resto ulti. It's an EZ way to survive and you aren't fooling us with your statement.

And as I have said before:

1) Make Powerlash Undodgeable (It is not a BUG, it was a feature that allowed skilled players to line up burst)
** Remember unlike most classes we do not have an execute **

2) Put the powerlash cooldown on targets/enemy players (NOT ON THE USER OF THE SKILL)
** This is to prevent you from having it on endless cooldown if other players who are set off balance dodge**

^
"EZ" Nothing is unfixable

It was a bug, therefore your entire post will be largely disregarded by many

Actually, I think we’ll disregard you instead.

You’re just another Nightblade who thinks it’s okay to stay within melee range of a naturally high-CC melee ranged class (Dragonknight) and also complain about how difficult of a time you’re having because you use Medium armor (which is your choice, not the Dragonknight’s).

Maybe Medium armor is underperforming which is also debatable, but that isn’t the fault of Power Lash (Flame Lash, which Power Lash procs from, could ALREADY BE DODGED AND PREVENT POWER LASH FROM PROCCING IF THE MEDIUM USER ISN'T A POTATO), it’s the fault of Medium armor being a glass cannon armor type which focuses almost purely on damage output and dodging, sneaking, or sprinting to evade damage which is not a good armor type to use against a melee class like Dragonknight which is built upon PUNISHING attackers that come within their range.

The entire Dragonknight class is MEANT to do its absolute best damage when someone is brave or stupid enough to wander into their immediate melee range. That’s how it has been since launch and that’s how it should stay.

Keep Power Lash undodgeable since FLAME LASH IS ALREADY DODGEABLE.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

It is literally a bug... Not my fault ZoS is stupid. Bugs sorta become features but it's still a bug. Even soul Harvest being dodgable is a bug. Do you know how many dodge bugs are in this game that ZoS doesn't fix? Steel Tornado, blade cloak, both of these are AoE but for some odd reason can be dodged... BTW I don't really play a stamblade I play magic more often than not, more flavor

Speaking of magblades... thanks for being more mature than the mDK community.

You didn't raise nearly this much noise when Soul Harvest (the only undodgeable mNB burst ability, bugged since the beta like Power Lash) became dodgeable (without any simultaneous buffs or anything like Power Lash is getting).

Oh right, soul harvest is dodgeable now. What an outrage!!! I summon all magblades on the forums, let's make our own QQ thread about it!!!! (Then go back into the game and play with our incaps)