This is not an expansion. Zos greed is killing this game.

idk · May 2017

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Was there ever a moment when nobody says that ZOS is killing the ESO?

The sky has been falling for more than 3 years now. Funny how none of those comments that the game is dying have come to fruition.

My guess is a decade from now( or whenever it happens) Zos turns the servers off for the last time we will see posts somewhere, see I told you Zos was killing the game with that Morrowind expansion.

GreenhaloX · May 2017

Gaming is business. It's all about profits and CEO and other high execs' salaries! Who can blame them. Again, it's a business. If don't like it, we can always not purchase their products. Probably won't even make a dent, as there are much more newcomers abound.

kevlarto_ESO · May 2017

Last I heard from zos they declined to call it an expansion, because it is not, it is a dlc or addition to game, believe I was hoping we would get a real expansion some day, I knew this was nothing more than a deluxe dlc, with an expansion price.

Queo · May 2017

As a soul stealing ginger im in the wrong business, I should have created a MMO. the amount of whining and apparent soul crushing events could have kept me and my kinda feed for eons. Seriously.

It was brought up before, how much value do you put on entertainment?

I'm also curious to how much the people that cry spend on other habit, like cigs or coffee? How many people are even on a budget to know the answer. This is $&^# is just getting stupid.

You didn't set aside enough money to buy a 40 dollar item, that's your fault, ZoS its not greedy, you are. you want to make a SLAVE out of all the people working on this project. You have no right to do that. Greed is a investment group that buys a life saving drug and jacks it up 1000%, not a entertainment company that after 3 years releases a new product, that you have to buy. Its no different then a writer who writes a big book, then over the course of a few years writes some novellas, that he posts for his Patrons (who pay a sub fee), then writes a sequel to that first book. Would you say that right is greedy? Hell i bet some of you would because you don't think talent should be paid.

DMuehlhausen · May 2017

As a soul stealing ginger im in the wrong business, I should have created a MMO. the amount of whining and apparent soul crushing events could have kept me and my kinda feed for eons. Seriously.

Showed this to my ginger co-worker. He just put in his two weeks. He might have a spot open in his new gaming company for you. @Queo

BlackSparrow · May 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

No, this is not literally world-changing like a WoW expansion, but between the new, super-sized zone, the new class, and Battlegrounds, it is certainly more significant than "Orsinium with a volcano" like some people are claiming.

It actually has less content than Orsinium.

Orsinium:
40+ quests
6 delves
6 world bosses
2 public dungeons
1 trial (solo)

Morrowind:
32+ quests
6 delves
6 world bosses
2 public dungeons
1 trial (group)
*half the buildings in the zone are locked

The warden and battlegrounds were tacked on to justify the price. They could have been sold separately since they have nothing to do with Morrowind.

Now I get that Orsinium probably wasn't profitable for Zenimax. And if that's the case, cool. Just say it though. Don't release new content at a new price point claiming it's bigger than anything released before it, when it actually isn't.

Interesting stats, I'll give you that!

However, I will contest that battlegrounds and Wardens were in any way "tacked on." They have been working on Battlegrounds, at least as a concept, since long before Morrowind was in planning. I find it more likely that they were like "well, we've got a large zone, and battlegrounds in development, and all these requests for a new class... let's bundle them together in one package!" BAM, you get an expansion. It very likely is a marketing technique, yes, and I do understand you and everyone else who feels the price is too high (including other subbers who are upset they have to pay).

But, personally, I find the price to be reasonable, especially given that this is a buy-to-play game. They have to get their money from somewhere, and when a large chunk of the playbase spends ~$10 on the box and then never pays another cent, the rest of us have to foot the bill. Call it greed if you want. I call it "paying to support the game I spend 100s of hours in every year."

As for the value of the Morrowind expansion in particular, I will be spending hours upon hours in this map with each of my characters, and enjoy it even longer than that in my Warden characters... probably for the rest of the game's life. For me, that's value, so that's worth the cost of the box. To say nothing of Tel Galen, which I suspect will be released down the road, and is slated to become my main's house. I'll never even use Battlegrounds, but the rest is more than enough to justify the cost, for me.

The point is that this is a subjective issue. That said, I will stand by my statement that your demand for more content is unreasonable, given their income model and how frequently they release other kinds of content.

If you've already cleared and gotten bored with a major update released two days ago, maybe the problem isn't with the developers.

Rikkof · May 2017

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Name me another MMO that doesn't do it this way?

Even the WoW expansions were typically maybe a new class (every other one) or a new race (again every other one). Then maybe one raid and a couple new dungeons and battleground maybe at the launch of the expansion and their Expansions are 60$ not 40$.

I'm sure though so it was Blizzard it was perfectly acceptable and not greedy at all.

this is where you go sideways, pal
WOW did not had a one raid expansions , never
Their expansions put forward maybe 7-8 raids( sometimes even MORE) WITH AT LEAST 12 DUNGEONS, SPANNED ACROSS THE PATCHES WITHING SAID EXPANSION

TamrielSaviour215 · May 2017

I just like to have fun with new content. Am I the bad guy here?

Agobi · May 2017

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Was there ever a moment when nobody says that ZOS is killing the ESO?

Actually I believe the game has been killed repeatedly now for something like 3 years?

Pretty sure it will still be here, being killed, years from now

Tryxus · May 2017

Game dying? Meh, I'll go play with my Warden

clocksstoppe · May 2017

The only way you can stop this is by not buying it. But seeing as most people here fell for the nostalgia bait, it's too late for that. Have a fitting meme for the direction the game is headed towards.

GreenSoup2HoT · May 2017

I for one am not buying this expansion. Theres nothing in it. I solely pvp. The base patch changes are all i need.

LiquidPony · May 2017

Jtj87 wrote: »

I love this game and have supported it for awhile but where is the content? It's basically orsinium with a new trial and battlegrounds. We need more dungeons, more variety of things to do and there is only 2 public dungeons in the new area? I mean the story in morrowind is nice but when that's over what next? Run the same dungeons over and over and try a new trial? I can't help the feeling of being ripped off. I am sure there is content that should have been included with morrowind that will be scretched out along the rest of 2017 and then we will get the same thing in 2018. If you want to justify charging 40 or 60 bucks for a "Chapter" and call it an expansion then add an entire new continent just for end game so veterans have something to do. Stop adding these areas with barely anything to do in them once the story is over.

So ... it's bigger than the biggest DLC (+ new Trial, + Battlegrounds, + new class) ... but it's not big enough to be an "expansion?"

I wonder where the line is.

MLGProPlayer · May 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jtj87 wrote: »

I love this game and have supported it for awhile but where is the content? It's basically orsinium with a new trial and battlegrounds. We need more dungeons, more variety of things to do and there is only 2 public dungeons in the new area? I mean the story in morrowind is nice but when that's over what next? Run the same dungeons over and over and try a new trial? I can't help the feeling of being ripped off. I am sure there is content that should have been included with morrowind that will be scretched out along the rest of 2017 and then we will get the same thing in 2018. If you want to justify charging 40 or 60 bucks for a "Chapter" and call it an expansion then add an entire new continent just for end game so veterans have something to do. Stop adding these areas with barely anything to do in them once the story is over.

So ... it's bigger than the biggest DLC (+ new Trial, + Battlegrounds, + new class) ... but it's not big enough to be an "expansion?"

I wonder where the line is.

Like I posted earlier. It's actually not bigger than the biggest DLC. It has more land mass, but less actual content.

Rikkof · May 2017

eso, curently:

Zapix · May 2017

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Name me another MMO that doesn't do it this way?

Final Fantasy XI expansions were anything but short and dull, but comparing FFXI to ESO is comparing steak to pork chops.

Yes, Morrowind fits into my $3.50~$5/hour value, and I've enjoyed it, but for an MMO... I kind of expect to be given a lot more to do if I'm gonna stick around or pay for ESO+. Technically the Thieve's Guild lasted longer, seeing as you had to be a certain guild level to get the next quest. Sure, when I buy a single player offline game, I'm expecting 10~40 hours of content (depending on the genre), but for an MMO? I expect something that eats up my time and makes me complain I don't have time for anything else!

Yolokin_Swagonborn · May 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jtj87 wrote: »

I love this game and have supported it for awhile but where is the content? It's basically orsinium with a new trial and battlegrounds. We need more dungeons, more variety of things to do and there is only 2 public dungeons in the new area? I mean the story in morrowind is nice but when that's over what next? Run the same dungeons over and over and try a new trial? I can't help the feeling of being ripped off. I am sure there is content that should have been included with morrowind that will be scretched out along the rest of 2017 and then we will get the same thing in 2018. If you want to justify charging 40 or 60 bucks for a "Chapter" and call it an expansion then add an entire new continent just for end game so veterans have something to do. Stop adding these areas with barely anything to do in them once the story is over.

So ... it's bigger than the biggest DLC (+ new Trial, + Battlegrounds, + new class) ... but it's not big enough to be an "expansion?"

I wonder where the line is.

So glad you asked!

WOW's first Expansion included:

11 new areas
10 dungeons
2 New Battlegrounds
various updates including Jewelry Crafting

ESO's "DLC+"

1 New Area
6 Delves
2 Public dungeons
1 Trial
New Class.
Battlegrounds

So by DLC standards, ZOS did pretty well. This would have been accepted by the community as an amazing DLC. But the marketing department had to ruin it by betraying subscribers and trying to pretend this was an expansion. With this not so smooth move, ZOS lost a lot of goodwill all for a few extra bucks that people would have eventually spent anyway.

MLGProPlayer · May 2017

BlackSparrow wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

No, this is not literally world-changing like a WoW expansion, but between the new, super-sized zone, the new class, and Battlegrounds, it is certainly more significant than "Orsinium with a volcano" like some people are claiming.

It actually has less content than Orsinium.

Orsinium:
40+ quests
6 delves
6 world bosses
2 public dungeons
1 trial (solo)

Morrowind:
32+ quests
6 delves
6 world bosses
2 public dungeons
1 trial (group)
*half the buildings in the zone are locked

The warden and battlegrounds were tacked on to justify the price. They could have been sold separately since they have nothing to do with Morrowind.

Now I get that Orsinium probably wasn't profitable for Zenimax. And if that's the case, cool. Just say it though. Don't release new content at a new price point claiming it's bigger than anything released before it, when it actually isn't.

Interesting stats, I'll give you that!

However, I will contest that battlegrounds and Wardens were in any way "tacked on." They have been working on Battlegrounds, at least as a concept, since long before Morrowind was in planning. I find it more likely that they were like "well, we've got a large zone, and battlegrounds in development, and all these requests for a new class... let's bundle them together in one package!" BAM, you get an expansion. It very likely is a marketing technique, yes, and I do understand you and everyone else who feels the price is too high (including other subbers who are upset they have to pay).

But, personally, I find the price to be reasonable, especially given that this is a buy-to-play game. They have to get their money from somewhere, and when a large chunk of the playbase spends ~$10 on the box and then never pays another cent, the rest of us have to foot the bill. Call it greed if you want. I call it "paying to support the game I spend 100s of hours in every year."

As for the value of the Morrowind expansion in particular, I will be spending hours upon hours in this map with each of my characters, and enjoy it even longer than that in my Warden characters... probably for the rest of the game's life. For me, that's value, so that's worth the cost of the box. To say nothing of Tel Galen, which I suspect will be released down the road, and is slated to become my main's house. I'll never even use Battlegrounds, but the rest is more than enough to justify the cost, for me.

The point is that this is a subjective issue. That said, I will stand by my statement that your demand for more content is unreasonable, given their income model and how frequently they release other kinds of content.

If you've already cleared and gotten bored with a major update released two days ago, maybe the problem isn't with the developers.

It's the same amount of content and the same price as GW2's expansion.

However, ESO has many more revenue options than GW2:

- ESO is B2P (GW2 is F2P, with a B2P option)
- ESO has an optional sub
- ESO cash shop currency can only be bought with real money (GW2 currency can be bought with in-game gold)
- ESO has DLC (GW2 only has base game and expansion)
- ESO has no transmog system (meaning customization is tied to cash shop costumes)
- ESO has mounts (which add a layer of customization, and by extension, monetization)

Having said that, I'm not really that outraged by the price. I'm more frustrated with ZOS' dishonesty. They marketed Morrowind as something so massive that they couldn't possibly undertake it if they didn't sell it as an expansion. If they just said that Orsinium wasn't profitable and undertaking future projects of that size would be untenable unless they release them as expansions, I would have been fine with it.

Gargath · May 2017

Jtj87 wrote: »

If you want to justify charging 40 or 60 bucks for a "Chapter"

We have a powerfull tool against greed - our will. Don't buy if you feel the price is not right, instead wait for a lowered price.
Don't feel like you have to support a company in any way, because it needs your money first. It's a simple trade, we buy they sell, there is no such thing as supporting devs, it's exaggerating a fact that it's a business between parties. The more you "support them" the more they grow in greed and finally you realise you have to pay twice for the same content, like now with Morrowind. I wait till the price is lowered. Don't like and will not spend more than a real value of product. Actual price is unreal.

Prof_Bawbag · May 2017

ProfesseurFreder wrote: »

If you want the game to stay alive and not die on the vine, you have to accept that the people making it need to be paid for their work, and the company needs to show a profit. If this is what it takes, then this is what it takes. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy the expansion now. Wait for a sale, if it's such an issue.

Disclaimer: I am not an ESO Plus member because I don't buy into the notion that software of any kind should be rented. I prefer to buy outright, and have done so with ESO from the beginning, buying all the expansions (barring only SHADOWS OF THE HIST, so far, but I'll get there eventually) and buying crowns as I need them for cosmetic items. So having to pay for Morrowind was never any kind of a Big Deal to me.

They release enough over priced fluff for that. Probably the reason it's had a price decrease on PSN too, before it's even been released. I'm assuming enough people know it isn't worth what they're asking for it so not lapping it up. Like i said earlier in another thread, they're free to charge what they want for fluff, but an other thing entirely when it's priced more than the likes of Mass Effect, Horizon etc. Thankfully the "I'll pay literally anything for anything" mentality doesn't really translate over when sat out in the open for all to see. What's worse, it's placed within the dlc section of PSN. A £30 and £50 piece of dlc sitting next to everything else that's priced around £7 - £20.

I know I'm not touching it until it drops to around £15.

Zapix · May 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Having said that, I'm not really that outraged by the price. I'm more frustrated with ZOS' dishonesty. They marketed Morrowind as something so massive that they couldn't possibly undertake it if they didn't sell it as an expansion.

This!
I was expecting (in terms of size and content) something about the same size as one of the main alliances. Something with multiple areas, something with a week or two worth of content. Something that was going to make ESO a much bigger place. What I really got was Horse Armor DLC that included a new region as a bonus.

LiquidPony · May 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jtj87 wrote: »

I love this game and have supported it for awhile but where is the content? It's basically orsinium with a new trial and battlegrounds. We need more dungeons, more variety of things to do and there is only 2 public dungeons in the new area? I mean the story in morrowind is nice but when that's over what next? Run the same dungeons over and over and try a new trial? I can't help the feeling of being ripped off. I am sure there is content that should have been included with morrowind that will be scretched out along the rest of 2017 and then we will get the same thing in 2018. If you want to justify charging 40 or 60 bucks for a "Chapter" and call it an expansion then add an entire new continent just for end game so veterans have something to do. Stop adding these areas with barely anything to do in them once the story is over.

So ... it's bigger than the biggest DLC (+ new Trial, + Battlegrounds, + new class) ... but it's not big enough to be an "expansion?"

I wonder where the line is.

So glad you asked!

WOW's first Expansion included:
11 new areas

10 dungeons

2 New Battlegrounds

various updates including Jewelry Crafting

ESO's "DLC+"
1 New Area

6 Delves

2 Public dungeons

1 Trial

New Class.

Battlegrounds

So by DLC standards, ZOS did pretty well. This would have been accepted by the community as an amazing DLC. But the marketing department had to ruin it by betraying subscribers and trying to pretend this was an expansion. With this not so smooth move, ZOS lost a lot of goodwill all for a few extra bucks that people would have eventually spent anyway.

Go play WoW, then?

"Betraying," lol. The entitlement is real.

melloni_aleb16_ESO · May 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Gaming is business. It's all about profits and CEO and other high execs' salaries! Who can blame them. Again, it's a business. If don't like it, we can always not purchase their products. Probably won't even make a dent, as there are much more newcomers abound.

Agree!!!

Having bought Morrowind ( or pre-order ) You're right about ZOS's policy

I read 2 million of gripes- threads , but 90% have bought Morrowind

you deserve it

( Don't misunderstand me, I like Eso ...But under certain conditions )

Vasoka · May 2017

Expansions cost 60EUR. Every MMO xpac from another company and every AAA game have the firmly set price of 60USD/EUR as I'm sure you're all aware.

Morrowind was 40 as I'm sure that you're more than aware, thus you can draw your own conclusions regarding your random complaining from that fact. Indeed it's not as massive as a WoW expansions or a GW2 expansions, but the price is just right for the content provided to us.

Move along, nothing to see.

LiquidPony · May 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jtj87 wrote: »

I love this game and have supported it for awhile but where is the content? It's basically orsinium with a new trial and battlegrounds. We need more dungeons, more variety of things to do and there is only 2 public dungeons in the new area? I mean the story in morrowind is nice but when that's over what next? Run the same dungeons over and over and try a new trial? I can't help the feeling of being ripped off. I am sure there is content that should have been included with morrowind that will be scretched out along the rest of 2017 and then we will get the same thing in 2018. If you want to justify charging 40 or 60 bucks for a "Chapter" and call it an expansion then add an entire new continent just for end game so veterans have something to do. Stop adding these areas with barely anything to do in them once the story is over.

So ... it's bigger than the biggest DLC (+ new Trial, + Battlegrounds, + new class) ... but it's not big enough to be an "expansion?"

I wonder where the line is.

Like I posted earlier. It's actually not bigger than the biggest DLC. It has more land mass, but less actual content.

@MLGProPlayer yeah sure, if you add a little disclaimer that says "*less 'actual content' not counting Battlegrounds or the new class and if you consider Maelstrom, which is 9 tiny circular rooms populated with recycled mobs from elsewhere in the game, equivalent to a wholly new 12-man Trial."

Whether or not Wardens or Battlegrounds are thematically linked to the Morrowind zone is irrelevant. They are part of the expansion, ergo a valuation of the expansion should include those pieces.

Morrowind is here. It costs $40. It's all over but the crying.

Panomania · May 2017

So lemme see if I have this right: keeping the company profitable is now greed. Oh, wait....forgot who we're dealing with. Schools and media now teach that "profit" is a dirty word.

Grow up. Figure sheet out. If ZOS doesnt keep money flowing into the company they shut down, and no more game. Regardless of whether you like the new content or not, bottom line is it didnt come free. MILLIONS had to be pumped into the company to ensure this saw release, and the people funding such a venture dont do it because the just love you all so much. They expect a return.

News flash: NO FUNCTIONING COMPANY that produces anything worth buying does it any other way. Honestly what we DO get without any added charge (1T changes, all the changes with Homestead) would have been AT LEAST one expac in any other game, and would have cost at least 40 bucks.

Dont like it? Dont play. Build your own game company and create an online MMO commune. Sure...that'd work :P

I_killed_Vivec · May 2017

milkbox wrote: »

The only thing that's really bugging me is all of the locked doors.

So many Dwemer ruins that can't be explored. A whole island to the north that is inaccessible. Tons of doors in Vivec City that lead nowhere.

Maybe that stuff will be unlocked in a future update, but I would have felt more satisfied if they'd delayed the release and included all those things in the price of this update. I feel like I only got half of what I paid for.

Oh, and nodes. Needs more nodes.

One of the features of the original Morrowind was that it encouraged you to explore. You never knew who, or what, you might find. Even if tombs were essentially deserted they were still places you could explore... kill some skeletons... maybe pick up some interesting weapons, or at least some coin. I've seen several such tomb entrances in the new version that are just drawn on. I don't feel much incentive to just walk around and talk to strangers.

And yes, nodes. Needs more nodes.

And as it's a new "chapter" couldn't they have introduced some new reagents, some pretty flowers that only grow in Vvardenfell? There's all kinds of new creatures, but they only drop the same old same old.

idk · May 2017

Rikkof wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Name me another MMO that doesn't do it this way?

Even the WoW expansions were typically maybe a new class (every other one) or a new race (again every other one). Then maybe one raid and a couple new dungeons and battleground maybe at the launch of the expansion and their Expansions are 60$ not 40$.

I'm sure though so it was Blizzard it was perfectly acceptable and not greedy at all.

this is where you go sideways, pal
WOW did not had a one raid expansions , never
Their expansions put forward maybe 7-8 raids( sometimes even MORE) WITH AT LEAST 12 DUNGEONS, SPANNED ACROSS THE PATCHES WITHING SAID EXPANSION

Didn't play WoW but I would expect expansions are approx once per year. If Thsinis the case and Zos is putting out at least 7 raids a year it can be nothing more than garbage. Add in 12 dungeons in year and more garbage.

Churn mills just toss it together and push it out.

Bigevilpeter · May 2017

Didn't buy it, won't pay another cent on this game till I feel ZOS respects their customers not just looking at them like an atm!!

Absolut_Turkey · May 2017

Someone is being naive, but it ain't Blacksparrow. And to all the whiners out there, is anyone forcing you to buy anything? And if you think ZOS is being greedy, you must be new to mmos, or you don't understand the concept of capitalism.