This is not an expansion. Zos greed is killing this game.

Gargath

Panomania wrote: »

They expect a return.

Nothing bad in this, but if they expect a return they should also play fair. They don't play fair with Morrowind, that is a fact. Subscribing game by millions should be enough for developer to gain profits. Gaining profits above all is also not right for the business.

As a simple subscriber now I feel worse because my subscription (already higher than competitors) is not enough to play all content. Being a subscriber in ESO has now a new meaning. Before the subscriber was the Elite - strongest supporter. Now we are not, if we didn't buy 'expansion' and dare to complain, in best we are sent back to WoW.

Tholian1

Panomania wrote: »

So lemme see if I have this right: keeping the company profitable is now greed. Oh, wait....forgot who we're dealing with. Schools and media now teach that "profit" is a dirty word.

Grow up. Figure sheet out. If ZOS doesnt keep money flowing into the company they shut down, and no more game. Regardless of whether you like the new content or not, bottom line is it didnt come free. MILLIONS had to be pumped into the company to ensure this saw release, and the people funding such a venture dont do it because the just love you all so much. They expect a return.

News flash: NO FUNCTIONING COMPANY that produces anything worth buying does it any other way. Honestly what we DO get without any added charge (1T changes, all the changes with Homestead) would have been AT LEAST one expac in any other game, and would have cost at least 40 bucks.

Dont like it? Dont play. Build your own game company and create an online MMO commune. Sure...that'd work :P

If they aren't profitable with all the cash-grabby fluff they produce (that seems to be increasing in price) in addition to the number of subscribers they have, then I think we should be a bit worried.

Kalante

LOLOLOLOLOLOL told ya so

May, 19, 2017

"Morrowind will be trash. The only reason people want it is because they played it way back in the day. Their expectations will be crushed that i can tell ya. oh and battlegrounds will be trash too. Its zos we are talking about here after all"

-Me

Also the first guild that beat the new trail in hard mode did it with all mag sorcs again, so it's nice to know that ZOS still did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and failed in making stamina a viable competitive choice that can keep up with magicka's capabilities. All that balancing to resources, champion points, skills, classes for nothing.

If only you focused on changing actual things that matter instead of adding crappy expansions that people will get bored off in a week you would be in a better place but sadly all you have done is make people feel disappointed and quit. All of your patch notes are mostly fluff that add no longevity to the game. All you do is kill people's classes and kill already dead classes even more to ground and the cycle continues.

Don't bring me "welcome to an mmo hur dur" because these are not changes a competent developing team does. These are changes a development team does that makes games die. Also the leadership is extremely out of touch if they felt that this expansion was justifiable of a 40 dollar charge given the fact that it has less content than a orsinium. LOL this game is doomed from the top all the way to the bottom.

GG ZOS.

Sylosi

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Name me another MMO that doesn't do it this way?

Even the WoW expansions were typically maybe a new class (every other one) or a new race (again every other one). Then maybe one raid and a couple new dungeons and battleground maybe at the launch of the expansion and their Expansions are 60$ not 40$.

I'm sure though so it was Blizzard it was perfectly acceptable and not greedy at all.

Well to name an example of something that was worthy of the term expansion I'd suggest Mines of Moria in LOTRO, that was how an expansion should be, which roughly consisted of:

- 2 new classes
- level cap increase with new skills / traits, etc.
- legendary item system added
- 7 6-man dungeons
- 3 raids
- 2 3-man dungeons
- crafting instances
- 10 new sections to the epic quest (like personal story/main story most MMOs have)
- 12 new zones

But yeah most expansions are not that good, which is a shame and probably one of the many reasons the MMORPG genre is in the state it is in.

QuebraRegra

I would rather they'd have made the zone a DLC, and sold the new class like the IMPERIAL RACE....

Queo

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

As a soul stealing ginger im in the wrong business, I should have created a MMO. the amount of whining and apparent soul crushing events could have kept me and my kinda feed for eons. Seriously.

Showed this to my ginger co-worker. He just put in his two weeks. He might have a spot open in his new gaming company for you. @Queo

id be all for story development and Customer service:

Here is my top answer to cry babies
"wahwahwah i want my milk and cookies"
"you really need to apologize to trees for wasting all that oxygen they produce"

KingKush

Kalante wrote: »

LOLOLOLOLOLOL told ya so

May, 19, 2017

"Morrowind will be trash. The only reason people want it is because they played it way back in the day. Their expectations will be crushed that i can tell ya. oh and battlegrounds will be trash too. Its zos we are talking about here after all"

-Me

Also the first guild that beat the new trail in hard mode did it with all mag sorcs again, so it's nice to know that ZOS still did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and failed in making stamina a viable competitive choice that can keep up with magicka's capabilities. All that balancing to resources, champion points, skills, classes for nothing.

If only you focused on changing actual things that matter instead of adding crappy expansions that people will get bored off in a week you would be in a better place but sadly all you have made is people disappointed and quit. All of your patch notes are mostly fluff that add no longevity to the game. All you do is kill people's classes and kill already dead classes even more to ground.

GG ZOS.

Relax Nostradamus,

Literally 90% of the forums were saying the same exact thing as you.

So congrats I guess?

Kalante

KingKush wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

LOLOLOLOLOLOL told ya so

May, 19, 2017

"Morrowind will be trash. The only reason people want it is because they played it way back in the day. Their expectations will be crushed that i can tell ya. oh and battlegrounds will be trash too. Its zos we are talking about here after all"

-Me

Also the first guild that beat the new trail in hard mode did it with all mag sorcs again, so it's nice to know that ZOS still did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and failed in making stamina a viable competitive choice that can keep up with magicka's capabilities. All that balancing to resources, champion points, skills, classes for nothing.

If only you focused on changing actual things that matter instead of adding crappy expansions that people will get bored off in a week you would be in a better place but sadly all you have made is people disappointed and quit. All of your patch notes are mostly fluff that add no longevity to the game. All you do is kill people's classes and kill already dead classes even more to ground.

GG ZOS.

Relax Nostradamus,

Literally 90% of the forums were saying the same exact thing as you.

So congrats I guess?

No, i was just seeing a bunch of threads praising morrowind. So you are wrong.

Faulgor

Maybe it's time for them to do away with the DLC model.
If we have to pay for a new chapter every year anyway, make it at least worthwhile. Put a full year's work into it ZOS, and it might deserve the price tag.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

LiquidPony wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jtj87 wrote: »

I love this game and have supported it for awhile but where is the content? It's basically orsinium with a new trial and battlegrounds. We need more dungeons, more variety of things to do and there is only 2 public dungeons in the new area? I mean the story in morrowind is nice but when that's over what next? Run the same dungeons over and over and try a new trial? I can't help the feeling of being ripped off. I am sure there is content that should have been included with morrowind that will be scretched out along the rest of 2017 and then we will get the same thing in 2018. If you want to justify charging 40 or 60 bucks for a "Chapter" and call it an expansion then add an entire new continent just for end game so veterans have something to do. Stop adding these areas with barely anything to do in them once the story is over.

So ... it's bigger than the biggest DLC (+ new Trial, + Battlegrounds, + new class) ... but it's not big enough to be an "expansion?"

I wonder where the line is.

So glad you asked!

WOW's first Expansion included:

• 11 new areas
• 10 dungeons
• 2 New Battlegrounds
• various updates including Jewelry Crafting

ESO's "DLC+"

• 1 New Area
• 6 Delves
• 2 Public dungeons
• 1 Trial
• New Class.
• Battlegrounds

So by DLC standards, ZOS did pretty well. This would have been accepted by the community as an amazing DLC. But the marketing department had to ruin it by betraying subscribers and trying to pretend this was an expansion. With this not so smooth move, ZOS lost a lot of goodwill all for a few extra bucks that people would have eventually spent anyway.

Go play WoW, then?

"Betraying," lol. The entitlement is real.

I have never seen a more pathetic retort in my life. I was comparing the value of expansions across two popular MMOs. The only thing you could think to say is "go play wow" and "entitled"?

Yes, as a consumer I am entitled to value for my money. I saw very limited value in moronwind, so I did not purchase it. There is value however in taking a argumentation and debate class, and being actually able to address someone's arguments instead of resorting to insults so I suggest you take one and put some more effort into your interactions with other humans.

MisterBigglesworth

@Yolokin_Swagonborn no u

Eshelmen

Lulz at all the "it's a business" rebuttals. Well no crap!

Yuke

DaoC Shrouded Isles Expansion:


Zones

Aldland
Avalon Isle
Caldey
Dales of Devwy
Gwyddneau
Inishail Island
Isle of Glass
Aegir's Landing
Delling Crater
Faraheim
Gripklosa Mountains
Iarnwood
Modernagrav
Munin Sound
Allta Fearann
Caillte Garran
Cothrom Gorge
Domnann
Vale of Balor
Vigilant Rock
World's End

Dungeons

Caer Sidi (raid)
City of Avalon
Krondon
Iarnvidiur's Lair
Trollheim
Tuscaran Glacier (raid)
Fomor
Galladoria (raid)
Tur Suil

New Races

Inconnu
Valkyn
Sylvan

New Classes

Reaver
Necromancer
Bonedancer
Savage
Animist
Valewalker


Others

All new ambient music soundtrack
Revamped user interface
New graphical engine with spectacular new visual effects
Loads of new quests, weapons, armor, outfits, monsters, advanced monster encounters and a ton of other additions.

This expansion also introduced the ability to start your character in the Shrouded Isles, this feature was later removed as the starting area was consolidated and then the tutorial area was introduced.

Price:

24.99€ without shady russia shop (suggested retail price)

... and the next Expansion Trials of Atlantis was even bigger. (same price)

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Eshelmen wrote: »

Lulz at all the "it's a business" rebuttals. Well no crap!

Making money doesn't indemnify business from moral responsibility or keeping promises to their customers.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

BlackSparrow wrote: »

"Shadows of the Hist is not a full DLC because it's only two dungeons!"

"Dark Brotherhood is not a full DLC because it only takes a couple hours to complete!"

"Homestead is not a full base game update because all it contains is a bunch of cosmetic houses!"

We get this with every quarterly content release. Every. Single. One.

No, this is not literally world-changing like a WoW expansion, but between the new, super-sized zone, the new class, and Battlegrounds, it is certainly more significant than "Orsinium with a volcano" like some people are claiming. Remember what income model they're working with and what rate new content comes out. Remember that they have to please the endgame players and the newbies, the PvPers and the cosmetics junkies, the roleplayers and the theorycrafters. Not all content is going to be specifically targeted at you, but that doesn't mean there's not a lot of content there.

The problem with content creation in a game like this is that devs are never, ever going to be able to keep up with the players, because it takes longer to develop content than it does to play it. Every single dungeon that you burn through in five minutes took multiple people hours to design, write, voice act, and program. If they gave you two more dungeons, you'd be complaining that there were "only four public dungeons" instead of "only two." Designing an entirely new continent would take the amount of time and money that it took to design Morrowind x 10 or so... years of development time, and then you'd burn through that in maybe a month, and then demand they create another new continent, and that they not take so long this time.

Content is finite. That's just a fact of MMOs. Either find a way to adjust to that (personally, I suggest lots of alts ) or try taking a break to play something else for a while.

This guy knows what's up.

Jtj87

I can't speak for everyone but I've had no problems with the content added to the game up until this point. When they decided to tout Morrowind as the first of many Chapters and compare them to other mmo expansions. That is what I expected for paying the same as a full retail game and what I got in return was more dlc with a zone that has less or the same content as orsinium, with battlegrounds and a warden class slapped on with a premium price tag.

The value just isn't there but that's my opinion and everyone has that right. If we don't voice our opinions on the things we like/ don't like these companies will continue and maybe they will regardless but it's worth a try at least, if enough people don't agree with it they will have no choice but to take action. Maybe the content being released after morrowind will make it feel more like a finished product but right now it just feels like an empty shell.

Panda_iMunch

Funny how ZoS makes a DLC that fits the pay to play model really well. Maybe if they were more concerned with keep members instead of selling copies, maybe there might be some more end game stuff to do. I wish there was like this sub model they could've tried that could have put the focus on retention instead new people, guess we'll never know.

LiquidPony

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jtj87 wrote: »

I love this game and have supported it for awhile but where is the content? It's basically orsinium with a new trial and battlegrounds. We need more dungeons, more variety of things to do and there is only 2 public dungeons in the new area? I mean the story in morrowind is nice but when that's over what next? Run the same dungeons over and over and try a new trial? I can't help the feeling of being ripped off. I am sure there is content that should have been included with morrowind that will be scretched out along the rest of 2017 and then we will get the same thing in 2018. If you want to justify charging 40 or 60 bucks for a "Chapter" and call it an expansion then add an entire new continent just for end game so veterans have something to do. Stop adding these areas with barely anything to do in them once the story is over.

So ... it's bigger than the biggest DLC (+ new Trial, + Battlegrounds, + new class) ... but it's not big enough to be an "expansion?"

I wonder where the line is.

So glad you asked!

WOW's first Expansion included:

• 11 new areas
• 10 dungeons
• 2 New Battlegrounds
• various updates including Jewelry Crafting

ESO's "DLC+"

• 1 New Area
• 6 Delves
• 2 Public dungeons
• 1 Trial
• New Class.
• Battlegrounds

So by DLC standards, ZOS did pretty well. This would have been accepted by the community as an amazing DLC. But the marketing department had to ruin it by betraying subscribers and trying to pretend this was an expansion. With this not so smooth move, ZOS lost a lot of goodwill all for a few extra bucks that people would have eventually spent anyway.

Go play WoW, then?

"Betraying," lol. The entitlement is real.

I have never seen a more pathetic retort in my life. I was comparing the value of expansions across two popular MMOs. The only thing you could think to say is "go play wow" and "entitled"?

Yes, as a consumer I am entitled to value for my money. I saw very limited value in moronwind, so I did not purchase it. There is value however in taking a argumentation and debate class, and being actually able to address someone's arguments instead of resorting to insults so I suggest you take one and put some more effort into your interactions with other humans.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn

Your comparison is bunk.

WoW releases nothing substantial for 2 years and then puts out a big release. WoW is pay to play.

ESO is buy to play. ZOS has delivered Craglorn, Imperial City, Orsinium, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Shadows of the Hist, and Homestead since release ... which are all included for the same price everyone pays for WoW. That's 4 raids, 4 dungeons, 5 zones, 2 arenas, poison crafting, new PvP modes, housing, etc. etc. etc. that were delivered for the cost of the game + $15 per month.

The comparison of Morrowind to a WoW expansion just doesn't make sense. Blizzard doesn't deliver quarterly DLC for your $15 monthly subscription. ZOS does.

SilverWF

That guys, rushing in to new content, sitting there with no sleep or rest for 10+ hours in a row just to get final achievement and then they are crying, that there is nothing more to do.
Lol, okay.

Doctordarkspawn

Greed? No, just their inability to figure out that the players dont like what their trying to push, balance wise, is gonna kill the game.

Xylphan

Gargath wrote: »

Panomania wrote: »

They expect a return.

Nothing bad in this, but if they expect a return they should also play fair. They don't play fair with Morrowind, that is a fact. Subscribing game by millions should be enough for developer to gain profits. Gaining profits above all is also not right for the business.

As a simple subscriber now I feel worse because my subscription (already higher than competitors) is not enough to play all content. Being a subscriber in ESO has now a new meaning. Before the subscriber was the Elite - strongest supporter. Now we are not, if we didn't buy 'expansion' and dare to complain, in best we are sent back to WoW.

You are ignorant of what it takes to develop, run, and maintain an MMO, both technically and financially. Furthermore, your assertions are based on absolutely nothing unless you somehow have intimate knowledge of Zenimax's inner workings.

So your "facts" are anything but facts.

Subscription in this game is optional, which means not every player playing the game is supporting the game. The initial purchase price gets eaten in a matter of months. Zenimax has to balance projected income vs. costs. Player who don't spend any money increase the cost. To keep the lights on and development rolling, Zenimax has to price subscriptions and items to cover the costs not only of subscribers, but everyone else who DOES NOT supply a steady flow income or any income at all.

That isn't easy. If it was, you wouldn't see so many businesses fail when their projected margins fail to materialize (most businesses end up failing, in case you're wondering).

And of course, programmers, writers, artists, techs, voice actors, etc. are NOT cheap. Neither is hardware and maintenance.

So while their marketing department makes claims of millions of accounts, a smaller number are actually active. And of those that are active an even smaller number actually subscribe. ZOS has to use that for their projections and try to determine what they can and cannot do as a result (not including any other issues that may arise that they hadn't considered, e.g. unknown unknowns).

QuebraRegra

Faulgor wrote: »

Maybe it's time for them to do away with the DLC model.
If we have to pay for a new chapter every year anyway, make it at least worthwhile. Put a full year's work into it ZOS, and it might deserve the price tag.

would pay for a TG "do over", with a decent story, multiple joinable factions, new dolmens, and an epic questline involving nocturnal. If DLC quality is to be poor, I'd rather pay more for some real quality.

Lord_Eomer

Yea kill this RNG or Kill thia game!

Kolzki

Considering the base game cost me about two pints I thought I probably owed ZOS the money for Morrowind

goldnugget

this game has been nothing but a cash grab from the start

CountEdmondDantes

SilverWF wrote: »

That guys, rushing in to new content, sitting there with no sleep or rest for 10+ hours in a row just to get final achievement and then they are crying, that there is nothing more to do.
Lol, okay.

True. On the other hand, I finished the Morrowind main quest today ... and I work at a University full time (it did take me a couple of days). And I promise you, I did not rush through it. I listed to the dialog and even restarted the quest after I was about a third of the way through it.

Am I disappointed? Not really, but I was expecting more than just a new zone for my money. And that is what it feels like. I wasn't expecting it to be as big as or as developed as TESIII, but I guess I was expecting more than this.

Also, it was has this very ... unfinished feel to it. For example, a lot of the doors on the east side of Balmora are inactive, as are many of the doors in Vivec.

There's a lot to like about the expansion, but it isn't perfect and it does feel light. I'm not sorry I bought it but I'm a little disappointed that they didn't do more with it, particulalry since releasing Morrowind now as part of ESO probably means we will never see another iteration of it again. And that kind of makes me sad.

Acrolas

Vvardenfell plus Battlegrounds DLC - 5000 to 6000 crowns
Warden upgrade bundle with pet, mount, consumables - 1900 to 2100 crowns

The box set is more Bethesda stroking its ego than a meaningful release, and the CE really only offered me butt slap and tea time emotes for $18 more dollars; I didn't want the other items.

But the basic upgrade for $31 and change? I can't really complain about that. It's acceptable because I would have paid around that much to unlock everything individually with crowns.

I still think the community has more à la carte buyers which is why the Chapters idea may be terrible in the long run while the subscription will continue to gain strength simply because of its convenience and flexibility. But so long as ZOS isn't shoving every extra doodad down my throat and I have a little bit of choice, the burden is on them, not me.

Sneaky-Snurr

All these feedbacks from the community and I'm one step closer to locking in my choice of not buying Morrowind.

I know, I shouldn't judge this expansion by people's feedback but this time it's just too disheartening that there are:

• A lot of empty plains with no interactions of any sort
• Lots of inaccessible structures
• Actually fewer quests compared to Orsinium and my friend even told me that the story is a little bland compared to Orsinium's. The latter boasts a lot of character engagement within the quest in tandem to very immersive NPC reactions and interactions.
• Warden locked behind a paywall

The good things are indeed there as well but they're minute in terms of importance like the improved visuals, nostalgia and lighting just to name a few.

And all of the above for $40??
If ZoS are planning to expand the content further within Vvardenfell (like making inaccessible structures accessible + quests yada yada for example) then the current price is WAAY too much since they mentioned that there are 'Chapters' and I can only assume they're going to release Chapter 2 of Morrowind along with the added content in Vvardenfell.

All in all, I'm still looking for reasons to justify so I can happily buy the expansion/'Chapter' without any remorse that may arise later but so far, there are not any single reason for me to buy into Morrowind.

Ir0nB34r

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Zolron wrote: »

What exactly is worth it now a days ?? Going to a 2 hr movie for $15 ? Going to a 3 1/2 hr sporting event for $50 to $100 ?? Entertainment is overpriced for what we get these days but that's a product of today's greedy corporate/entertainment society.
As much as I think all these things are overpriced I still enjoy them immensely. Life is short enjoy it and quit whining about our First World Problems

Despite all it's flaws, the gaming industry still provides the cheapest entertainment (per hour) you can buy.

And this is what people do not understand. You are getting so freaking much for what you pay for. When it comes comes to cost per hour of entertainment I like my ratio to be at LEAST a dollar per hour. To me, that's a fair balance. And ESO has given me much more than that.

Wayshuba

I came from SWTOR. You have no idea what no content is until you go there.

They haven't had a raid released in over two years. Now they are releasing a boss for a new raid every 4 months (which means 20 months for ONE raid). So by the time they are done, it will have been almost 4 years without a raid. That is called taking your customers to the cleaners.

Sorry, but ZOS is putting out quite a bit of content compared to many MMOs. Do they top all MMOs, no. But they are ahead of quite a few on the market.

I guess I am simple to please. Pay them for the game and keep putting out regular content and I am a happy dude.