Yes, or i think u should still be able to cancel but if u cancel it u cancel the damage 2.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Guys . I am sure most of you are using animation cancelling . Even if you voted ''Yes get rid of it'' . It is just because you don't know what it actually is or don't know how to do it but do it without realizing it . So I am gonna link here a video . Just watch it and if you are against animation cancelling , don't use anything that is mentioned in the video . If you are against animation cancelling , learn how to do it so you do NOT to use it accidentally . It is a short and nice video . Here you go :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug

Some of us don't like proc sets and don't use them . Some of us don't like exploits available and don't use them . Don't get that part confused with me calling AC an exploit , it's not . I use full animation in overland PVE because I like the look and the NPCs don't animation cancel , so it's fair fights . I've already made myself less powerful by practicing what I preach in PVP , but if I do not AC in PVP while everyone else is , I might as well not even go in Cyrodiil . Which I find myself doing less anyways with all the problems with lag and disconnected issues .

I play a few other games with no animation canceling in them and they are still fun . There is time to react and defend still , it just takes getting use too . This game has the most extreme AC in all games I've played and you can override entire animations completely and not even tell an ability was cast . People in competitive games laugh at this one . League of Legends would never put up with the inconsistency here and they make the budget for this game look tiny in the game world . Most competitive games have solid combat structure and no room for exploits of any kind . This games quality control can't hold a torch to most other MMOs . The ones that stay despite the issues , either love the franchise so much they ignore it like me or have no wants or needs to be competitive with even playing fields . The last group would the mechanics exploiters that love a game they can manipulate to appear to be really competitive .

The idea of fairness in PVE is very subjective. For instance I could take it complete extremes and say that even if you don't AC in PVE it's not fair since players are players and not governed by AI. Or perhaps a more grounded approach of players can self heal when not all mobs and bosses can. This is humanizing the NPCs to assist in immersion, it's highly subjective and not a standard that most players would be able to agree on. It hardly able to a attacted to a discussion about AC, since it's much more role play driven as opposed to objectively mechanics driven.

Mind giving examples of such games? I personally could not find ones which lacked any form of animation canceling or prioritizing of animations but still featured reactive blocking and dodging. Sure there are games that allow multiple actions at once. Such as firing a space ship's weaponry while moving as a basis. However I consider lacking animation priorities to be completely dissimilar to ESO, since here only one action can occur at a time.

On the note of competitive gaming, there's a trapping within those circles that players will laugh at any game but the one they're playing. Not to say ESO doesn't have issues, it does in spades. However just because a competitive gamer laughs at other games doesn't mean much. Frankly I'd wager they'd also laugh at the concept of trying to have a "fair" fight with NPCs too. Try introducing that notion to a League of Legends player. Ask them if they wish to fairly fight mobs in the jungle, and judge the reactions for yourself.

dday3six wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Guys . I am sure most of you are using animation cancelling . Even if you voted ''Yes get rid of it'' . It is just because you don't know what it actually is or don't know how to do it but do it without realizing it . So I am gonna link here a video . Just watch it and if you are against animation cancelling , don't use anything that is mentioned in the video . If you are against animation cancelling , learn how to do it so you do NOT to use it accidentally . It is a short and nice video . Here you go :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug

Some of us don't like proc sets and don't use them . Some of us don't like exploits available and don't use them . Don't get that part confused with me calling AC an exploit , it's not . I use full animation in overland PVE because I like the look and the NPCs don't animation cancel , so it's fair fights . I've already made myself less powerful by practicing what I preach in PVP , but if I do not AC in PVP while everyone else is , I might as well not even go in Cyrodiil . Which I find myself doing less anyways with all the problems with lag and disconnected issues .

I play a few other games with no animation canceling in them and they are still fun . There is time to react and defend still , it just takes getting use too . This game has the most extreme AC in all games I've played and you can override entire animations completely and not even tell an ability was cast . People in competitive games laugh at this one . League of Legends would never put up with the inconsistency here and they make the budget for this game look tiny in the game world . Most competitive games have solid combat structure and no room for exploits of any kind . This games quality control can't hold a torch to most other MMOs . The ones that stay despite the issues , either love the franchise so much they ignore it like me or have no wants or needs to be competitive with even playing fields . The last group would the mechanics exploiters that love a game they can manipulate to appear to be really competitive .

The idea of fairness in PVE is very subjective. For instance I could take it complete extremes and say that even if you don't AC in PVE it's not fair since players are players and not governed by AI. Or perhaps a more grounded approach of players can self heal when not all mobs and bosses can. This is humanizing the NPCs to assist in immersion, it's highly subjective and not a standard that most players would be able to agree on. It hardly able to a attacted to a discussion about AC, since it's much more role play driven as opposed to objectively mechanics driven.

Mind giving examples of such games? I personally could not find ones which lacked any form of animation canceling or prioritizing of animations but still featured reactive blocking and dodging. Sure there are games that allow multiple actions at once. Such as firing a space ship's weaponry while moving as a basis. However I consider lacking animation priorities to be completely dissimilar to ESO, since here only one action can occur at a time.

On the note of competitive gaming, there's a trapping within those circles that players will laugh at any game but the one they're playing. Not to say ESO doesn't have issues, it does in spades. However just because a competitive gamer laughs at other games doesn't mean much. Frankly I'd wager they'd also laugh at the concept of trying to have a "fair" fight with NPCs too. Try introducing that notion to a League of Legends player. Ask them if they wish to fairly fight mobs in the jungle, and judge the reactions for yourself.

This one in beta is shaping up to be one of the best for me .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M4Kdzm5XQ9M

OdinForge wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Guys . I am sure most of you are using animation cancelling . Even if you voted ''Yes get rid of it'' . It is just because you don't know what it actually is or don't know how to do it but do it without realizing it . So I am gonna link here a video . Just watch it and if you are against animation cancelling , don't use anything that is mentioned in the video . If you are against animation cancelling , learn how to do it so you do NOT to use it accidentally . It is a short and nice video . Here you go :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug

Some of us don't like proc sets and don't use them . Some of us don't like exploits available and don't use them . Don't get that part confused with me calling AC an exploit , it's not . I use full animation in overland PVE because I like the look and the NPCs don't animation cancel , so it's fair fights . I've already made myself less powerful by practicing what I preach in PVP , but if I do not AC in PVP while everyone else is , I might as well not even go in Cyrodiil . Which I find myself doing less anyways with all the problems with lag and disconnected issues .

I play a few other games with no animation canceling in them and they are still fun . There is time to react and defend still , it just takes getting use too . This game has the most extreme AC in all games I've played and you can override entire animations completely and not even tell an ability was cast . People in competitive games laugh at this one . League of Legends would never put up with the inconsistency here and they make the budget for this game look tiny in the game world . Most competitive games have solid combat structure and no room for exploits of any kind . This games quality control can't hold a torch to most other MMOs . The ones that stay despite the issues , either love the franchise so much they ignore it like me or have no wants or needs to be competitive with even playing fields . The last group would the mechanics exploiters that love a game they can manipulate to appear to be really competitive .

I hate to break it to you but League of Legends has animation canceling, and it's used very commonly especially at high levels.

Most games have some form of animation cancel, you just don't even realize it. While some games like WoW have taken a stance against it in the past, it really depends on developer. In the case of ESO ZOS has openly embraced it, because in ESO it indeed makes the combat feel more responsive.

You didn't take the full paragraph I wrote into consideration . I didn't say LOL has zero animation canceling , I said it does not have the inconsistency of ESO . The amount of AC available here would be considered game breaking in eSport games like WoW and LOL . The emote glitch on Ps4 is the perfect example of being able to hide combat completely and this is what I mean by game breaking AC . Those games have a higher standard of acceptable weaving . You will not see invisible combat over in those titles . Here I can drop a dozen videos where players get attacked and don't even see the combos that killed them as they curse in their microphones . That level is why eso is not considered a competitive MMO .

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Guys . I am sure most of you are using animation cancelling . Even if you voted ''Yes get rid of it'' . It is just because you don't know what it actually is or don't know how to do it but do it without realizing it . So I am gonna link here a video . Just watch it and if you are against animation cancelling , don't use anything that is mentioned in the video . If you are against animation cancelling , learn how to do it so you do NOT to use it accidentally . It is a short and nice video . Here you go :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug

Some of us don't like proc sets and don't use them . Some of us don't like exploits available and don't use them . Don't get that part confused with me calling AC an exploit , it's not . I use full animation in overland PVE because I like the look and the NPCs don't animation cancel , so it's fair fights . I've already made myself less powerful by practicing what I preach in PVP , but if I do not AC in PVP while everyone else is , I might as well not even go in Cyrodiil . Which I find myself doing less anyways with all the problems with lag and disconnected issues .

I play a few other games with no animation canceling in them and they are still fun . There is time to react and defend still , it just takes getting use too . This game has the most extreme AC in all games I've played and you can override entire animations completely and not even tell an ability was cast . People in competitive games laugh at this one . League of Legends would never put up with the inconsistency here and they make the budget for this game look tiny in the game world . Most competitive games have solid combat structure and no room for exploits of any kind . This games quality control can't hold a torch to most other MMOs . The ones that stay despite the issues , either love the franchise so much they ignore it like me or have no wants or needs to be competitive with even playing fields . The last group would the mechanics exploiters that love a game they can manipulate to appear to be really competitive .

The idea of fairness in PVE is very subjective. For instance I could take it complete extremes and say that even if you don't AC in PVE it's not fair since players are players and not governed by AI. Or perhaps a more grounded approach of players can self heal when not all mobs and bosses can. This is humanizing the NPCs to assist in immersion, it's highly subjective and not a standard that most players would be able to agree on. It hardly able to a attacted to a discussion about AC, since it's much more role play driven as opposed to objectively mechanics driven.

Mind giving examples of such games? I personally could not find ones which lacked any form of animation canceling or prioritizing of animations but still featured reactive blocking and dodging. Sure there are games that allow multiple actions at once. Such as firing a space ship's weaponry while moving as a basis. However I consider lacking animation priorities to be completely dissimilar to ESO, since here only one action can occur at a time.

On the note of competitive gaming, there's a trapping within those circles that players will laugh at any game but the one they're playing. Not to say ESO doesn't have issues, it does in spades. However just because a competitive gamer laughs at other games doesn't mean much. Frankly I'd wager they'd also laugh at the concept of trying to have a "fair" fight with NPCs too. Try introducing that notion to a League of Legends player. Ask them if they wish to fairly fight mobs in the jungle, and judge the reactions for yourself.

This one in beta is shaping up to be one of the best for me .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M4Kdzm5XQ9M

OdinForge wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Guys . I am sure most of you are using animation cancelling . Even if you voted ''Yes get rid of it'' . It is just because you don't know what it actually is or don't know how to do it but do it without realizing it . So I am gonna link here a video . Just watch it and if you are against animation cancelling , don't use anything that is mentioned in the video . If you are against animation cancelling , learn how to do it so you do NOT to use it accidentally . It is a short and nice video . Here you go :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug

Some of us don't like proc sets and don't use them . Some of us don't like exploits available and don't use them . Don't get that part confused with me calling AC an exploit , it's not . I use full animation in overland PVE because I like the look and the NPCs don't animation cancel , so it's fair fights . I've already made myself less powerful by practicing what I preach in PVP , but if I do not AC in PVP while everyone else is , I might as well not even go in Cyrodiil . Which I find myself doing less anyways with all the problems with lag and disconnected issues .

I play a few other games with no animation canceling in them and they are still fun . There is time to react and defend still , it just takes getting use too . This game has the most extreme AC in all games I've played and you can override entire animations completely and not even tell an ability was cast . People in competitive games laugh at this one . League of Legends would never put up with the inconsistency here and they make the budget for this game look tiny in the game world . Most competitive games have solid combat structure and no room for exploits of any kind . This games quality control can't hold a torch to most other MMOs . The ones that stay despite the issues , either love the franchise so much they ignore it like me or have no wants or needs to be competitive with even playing fields . The last group would the mechanics exploiters that love a game they can manipulate to appear to be really competitive .

I hate to break it to you but League of Legends has animation canceling, and it's used very commonly especially at high levels.

Most games have some form of animation cancel, you just don't even realize it. While some games like WoW have taken a stance against it in the past, it really depends on developer. In the case of ESO ZOS has openly embraced it, because in ESO it indeed makes the combat feel more responsive.

You didn't take the full paragraph I wrote into consideration . I didn't say LOL has zero animation canceling , I said it does not have the inconsistency of ESO . The amount of AC available here would be considered game breaking in eSport games like WoW and LOL . The emote glitch on Ps4 is the perfect example of being able to hide combat completely and this is what I mean by game breaking AC . Those games have a higher standard of acceptable weaving . You will not see invisible combat over in those titles . Here I can drop a dozen videos where players get attacked and don't even see the combos that killed them as they curse in their microphones . That level is why eso is not considered a competitive MMO .

And none of that has anything to do with animation cancel, it has to do with a buggy game. You cannot actually cancel animations, just clip. Animation cancel is not to blame for ZOS leaving glitches, bugs and the over abundance of lag unchecked.

The design of the combat system in ESO is much different than a game like League or a game like Paragon, and thus how animation cancel is used is different for every game. You can't compare the consistency of one to the other, you either don't like animation cancel in one or you don't like it in the other. You cannot pretend that animation cancel in ESO is worse than any other game, each skill still has a cool-down and short of clipping like you apparently have no issue doing in pve people aren't readily bypassing cool-down and casting every skill they have at once.

ESO without animation canceling would feel sluggish and boring, that's just how the game is designed. Dark Souls 3 has bare minimum animation cancel, but that's okay because the combat is designed differently. Dark Souls 3 is a game where 3 or 4 hits can decide a fight, ESO is a game where anyone can heal or shield to stay alive much longer than they should, with resource pools that are much higher than they should be.

ESO without animation cancel would be hilariously bad. Light and heavy attacks would be virtually useless, because they don't do enough damage to justify using instead of just spamming wrecking blow every time cool down for it is up. Shields would be instantly outclassed because the act of casting two shields would be hilariously long, while some stamina toon could just dodge without worrying.

The game would be a huge joke, worse than it already is. It would require a 150% complete overhaul from the ground up to regain that responsive feeling combat, and it would never be as responsive.

You haven't made a single point in any post here to justify removing animation cancel for ESO, but don't worry no one else has made a justifiable point for removing it either.

Justification is rooted in the word Justice , which is open to interpretation . I'm sure no one can justify anything as long as you are the judge here Odinforge . Calling players scrubs for running builds you don't like and tossing the word casual around just makes you come across as arrogant and self centered which are both bad traits in any real judge . So we are done here .

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

No idea what it is. If it gives a few people advantage over others.. Obviously it needs a fix/nerf.

Practising your guitar more than someone else will give you an advantage over them. Guitar practice doesn't need a nerf though.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Justification is rooted in the word Justice , which is open to interpretation . I'm sure no one can justify anything as long as you are the judge here Odinforge . Calling players scrubs for running builds you don't like and tossing the word casual around just makes you come across as arrogant and self centered which are both bad traits in any real judge . So we are done here .

You've pointed out zero fact or reason in this thread, you're advocating the removal of the one thing left that most competitive players enjoy.

The reason you're advocating its removal? Misguided opinion, you literally admitted to using weaving in PvE but then turn around and say it's not okay to do in PvP, what kind of logic is that? You made several incorrect points about consistency and competitiveness compared to other games, both of which are irrelevant because other games include animation cancel and the consistency is entirely irrelevant because the combat systems are designed differently in every game. The level of implementation of AC in one game compared to another is irrelevant, what matters is that AC is commonly used in many games to heighten the response time.

The consistency of AC in ESO boils down to being able to weave skills with basic attacks on a simple level, that's not out of control or a joke in the gaming world. I have every right to be annoyed with people like you, you who barely played this game. A few months ago you were like CP 300 getting 1vX'd in Cyrodiil or zerging people down barely at best, if you indeed were around since beta/launch you weren't around very much, not very much at all. People like myself and many other long time players in this thread have every right to be frustrated with the crybabies that don't understand the combat system, yet advocate its dumbing down.

Get real.

bikerangelo wrote: »

If I get stuck in one of my endless channels and can't cancel it with a block, I'd die a bunch more than I do already

No ani-canceling will be the R.I.P. of so many skills and maybe the templar class in its entirety as getting stuck in certain channels will become painful.

Also If you want ani-canceling removed then expect healing to be removed from dungeons also as healers ani-cancel more than any other role in the game atm.

That being said I don't know an MMO without ani-canceling so...this will never be removed.

OdinForge wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Justification is rooted in the word Justice , which is open to interpretation . I'm sure no one can justify anything as long as you are the judge here Odinforge . Calling players scrubs for running builds you don't like and tossing the word casual around just makes you come across as arrogant and self centered which are both bad traits in any real judge . So we are done here .

You've pointed out zero fact or reason in this thread, you're advocating the removal of the one thing left that most competitive players enjoy.

The reason you're advocating its removal? Misguided opinion, you literally admitted to using weaving in PvE but then turn around and say it's not okay to do in PvP, what kind of logic is that? You made several incorrect points about consistency and competitiveness compared to other games, both of which are irrelevant because other games include animation cancel and the consistency is entirely irrelevant because the combat systems are designed differently in every game. The level of implementation of AC in one game compared to another is irrelevant, what matters is that AC is commonly used in many games to heighten the response time.

The consistency of AC in ESO boils down to being able to weave skills with basic attacks on a simple level, that's not out of control or a joke in the gaming world. I have every right to be annoyed with people like you, you who barely played this game. A few months ago you were like CP 300 getting 1vX'd in Cyrodiil or zerging people down barely at best, if you indeed were around since beta/launch you weren't around very much, not very much at all. People like myself and many other long time players in this thread have every right to be frustrated with the crybabies that don't understand the combat system, yet advocate its dumbing down.

Get real.

I admitted in PvP not PvE , try to read as it's impossible to survive when everyone else is using AC . This is a second account after maxing eight characters 561 on DC already . Playing the hardest class Magblade at cp 300 then , I expected people to to easily kill me , so attempting to rub that in my face is laughable and just shows how emotional you are about this . I am a point or so away from cp 500 now on this second account that puts my total rooms at eleven . Although being called a casual from someone that knows nothing about me is what I expected . I don't go around bragging when I do kill a 561 on my lower level Magblade because that's just degrading to competive players and I don't get my jollies from making people feel bad like some adult child with a inadequacy complex .

It's fine to support your opinion but don't personally attack me especially when it's not the truth .

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Can confirm.

Am playing For Honor beta today, animation cancel is indeed implemented to help shake up the combat in some meaningful way.

Look out guys, For Honor isn't competitive now.

Completely false . The most you can do is cancel a attack or faint . What are trying to prove by making so much stuff up ?

Could ask the same about this thread here: What is the anti AC crowd trying to prove by making so many false things up, as seen in this thread?

From reading responses, I see 2 separate issues.

1 is whether or not skills should be able to be cancelled by other skills while mid-animation

2 is whether damage should fire off without performing an animation.

In my opinion, preventing anyone from, say, using block while mid swing would create a very clunky combat experience and would not be fun to play. For this reason, I say that you should be able to cancel 1 animation with use of another because it creates responsive gameplay.

The important thing to me, however, is as follows:

The damage that fires on a skill should be tied to the animation of the attack as far as possible. This would mean that the damage would not be done until the swing makes contact with the enemy. If the animation has a 1 second timer from start to connection with enemy then there should be a 1 second delay on the damage (I appreciate that lag etc could cause a mis-timer but hey, it will never be perfect).

If the skill is cancelled before the swing connects with the enemy then no damage should be done.

The skill should be cancellable, however, it should be a choice between damage and no damage.

Yes. Definitely get rid of it. It's ridiculous.

I've almost certainly done it accidentally at some point but I refuse to do it deliberately. Which means I can't go anywhere near any form of even remotely competitive content without dragging down other players with me.

Wollust wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Here are the facts

1 animation cancel allows exploits to take place . For instance procing certain sets that are suppose to only be Melee like vipers .

2 animation canceling allows major exploits like the one shot emote glitch shown many times .

3 animation canceling can completely make ganking way more effective then it is already with stealth bonuses . Even without proc sets people can instantly kill from stealth with players not even seeing an actual attack take place .

All of these are facts , not opinions . An one of the major reason even experienced players have a beef against them . If animation canceling was removed , these exploits and imbalances would not occur as much . Fact .

People have already stated the facts but some people do not care as they're "fun" playstyle would become boring . That's fine to have that opinion but to say there are no valid complaints involving AC is complete false information .

1) Viper procs through enchants and stuff even if you're ranged, has nothing to do with animation canceling. If you mean the fast weapon swap AC, I have tried that out so many times and the only way it proc'd was when I did something like ambush the target and hitting it at the same time with my bow attacks. Sure, blame AC for that. But I think proc sets like viper itself are more to blame than anything else. No one had any issues with Bow heavy attack -> weapon swap -> ambush before sets like viper and stuff added 8k dmg to it.
2) That's obviously a bug (Console specific? Never heard or seen of it on PC). It's like saying Volcanic Rune or Meteor were completely overpowered because they would kill people with fall damage when it was laggy a year ago. It's a bug, and it needs to be fixed. There is nothing to blame here except the players abusing it. Bugs happen in all forms and they happen constantly.
3) This is true, the underlying issue here is though that stealth is overloaded with advantages. There is also builds out there that can oneshot without any sort of AC and you won't see it coming, ever.

I'm sorry, but your facts are not exactly strong arguments for the removal of AC. Not if we compare it to what AC offers to the game: A highly dynamic, very responsive combat system that also has at least some sort of skill factor involved. Not to mention that AC is quite the fair mechanic, as everyone no matter what level/gear/time played can learn it. Not to mention the fact that a removal of AC would require a complete overhaul of the current combat system, which is quite unrealistic.
I don't mind if people are against AC, but at least bring out some real facts. Sure, what you said is somewhat true and I appreciate such a discussion, but it doesn't change the fact that so many people here keep posting wrong and uninformed bs just to support their claims.

If the arguments I've made are not strong enough to remove AC for you , I respect that and do not expect anyone to change personal preference for others because it's subjective . I am simply pointing out the facts and flaws in the system for the opponents of it . I'm sure it can be frustrating when a majority poll disagrees with people opinions like we have here .

I understand why some people want to keep it and despite its unpopularity accept it will most likely stay . I know how to use it very well . I just do not have to like the negative aspects of it . I so not expect others to share my preference in combat style either but at least be respectful of that opinion even if it's not shared as you have done . Thank you .

Just no. Everyone can AC,just git gud. I remember the good ol' time when you could AC a heavy attack into wrecking blow but people cried so loud that they killed that skill