Breath of Life Cost Increase

MalakithAlamahdi · December 2016

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

soll wrote: »

proc sets can't kill reactive templar? Heya, Let's go to forum and ask to kill PVE and non cp PVP just because YOU can't kill healer, who's doing his job? And malu-reactive templars are not death machines, if they can survive, doesn't mean they proc-kill everyone. But's let's nerf them, yea. Templars already are weak class.

L2P

Certainly never mentioned proc sets not killing anything as I don't use them because I think they are horrible for the game. That last sentence is comical. Maybe the templar saying they're a weak class should L2P.

Any stamina build can completely wreck a magplar without to much effort. I hold everything but a stam sorc (which are the strongest ATM) and have never had any issues with them.

Docmandu · December 2016

Funny how people are against healing... yet roll dodging taking no damage is fine, casting super shields that make you crit resistant and have no effectiveness debuff in game are also fine.

but 'lo and behold if a templar casts a heal.. a heal that will most likely be debuffed (every class has a heal debuff available) and that heal doesn't make you immune to crits either, like a shield does.

imho the bigger issue is the 1h/s block cost... which is what creates these super tanks that nobody can kill.. and it doesn't even have to be a templar.

MalakithAlamahdi · December 2016

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Malubeth/reactive wearing templar healbots spamming BoL are the worst kind of cancer are broken, easy mode, OP healers in PvP right now IMO. I dislike them more than proc set stackers I think (maybe, it's close). They are the toughest class to kill by far and they won't kill you, but the other members of their group who they are keeping alive will. Or, they will sit there holding block and spamming BoL until they get their destro ult and can go offfensive with one button. One or two BoL and a player goes from almost zero health to full health. In an outnumbered fight, if you try to focus the healer first (which generally should be a good strategy), they can keep themselves alive easily while their group members beat on you. And if you focus on other members of their group, you will get one down to almost no health to see them instantly go back to full. The malubeth/reactive set is cancerous for sure and is a huge reason why these templars can be so unkillable, but BoL is a problem. It should be an "oh sh**" heal and not one that can be spammed endlessly.

What I propose is a decrease to the base cost of the ability and a cost increase on subsequent casts of BoL, similar to how streak functions currently. 50% cost increase is over the top, but some sort of small increase each time it is recast within a certain time frame, say 4 seconds (I think that is what streak is), would solve this issue of templars being able to keep themselves and everyone in their small group alive by pressing a single button over and over again. The idea is this cost increase would not really hurt until it is spammed 3-4 times in about 5 seconds

Edit: An idea proposed by someone else in the thread which I think is awesome would be to decrease the initial cost of the ability. This would reward thoughtful, skillful healing and punish single button mashing healing. Also I understand this may have a negative effect on PvE so make it a PvP only effect on the ability. Additionally I agree that these changes should be implemented alongside changes to proc set damage and fixed to bugs like CC lock. It is certainly not the only unbalanced part of PvP, just one of multiple issues.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Lol, Just no. Might as well remove the whole class than and most of the resto staff skills.

Ishammael · December 2016

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Honestly I don't really like this, as it really would kill dedicated healers in groups. I know this game doesn't really revolve around the healer/tank/dps trinity but there's something to be said for an organized group where healers heal and dps dps rather than relying on self heals. I don't want to destroy healers altogether, I would just like to see it be more involved than repeated burst heals using the same skill, in the same way that killing someone should require more than weaving one skill with a light/heavy attack which procs two instant damage sets.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75%

it will not affect pve, it will be only on pvp when at all most people have selfheals , only scrub zergs who are mindless running will be punished by no having any selfheal, rely only on also mindless botheal who just spam 1 button to keep zerg alive.

its really funny if for exaple you with friends, 4-5 in group, normal players, no stupid botheal etc, it will be fo=unny when we will meet also 4-5 people group but with healing bot and then kill someone will be almost impossible because of botheal, is it fun?

and did you still dont know about possible nerf to proc sets on pvp with next patch?

I don't think you truly understand how the 50% Battle Spirit debuff affected the balance of classes.

An across the board healing reduction like that dramatically increase the relative power of the class with the best healing. Just like what happened with IC. 75% healing debuff would make Templar healing even better and more necessary.

Edziu · December 2016

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Malubeth/reactive wearing templar healbots spamming BoL are the worst kind of cancer are broken, easy mode, OP healers in PvP right now IMO. I dislike them more than proc set stackers I think (maybe, it's close). They are the toughest class to kill by far and they won't kill you, but the other members of their group who they are keeping alive will. Or, they will sit there holding block and spamming BoL until they get their destro ult and can go offfensive with one button. One or two BoL and a player goes from almost zero health to full health. In an outnumbered fight, if you try to focus the healer first (which generally should be a good strategy), they can keep themselves alive easily while their group members beat on you. And if you focus on other members of their group, you will get one down to almost no health to see them instantly go back to full. The malubeth/reactive set is cancerous for sure and is a huge reason why these templars can be so unkillable, but BoL is a problem. It should be an "oh sh**" heal and not one that can be spammed endlessly.

What I propose is a decrease to the base cost of the ability and a cost increase on subsequent casts of BoL, similar to how streak functions currently. 50% cost increase is over the top, but some sort of small increase each time it is recast within a certain time frame, say 4 seconds (I think that is what streak is), would solve this issue of templars being able to keep themselves and everyone in their small group alive by pressing a single button over and over again. The idea is this cost increase would not really hurt until it is spammed 3-4 times in about 5 seconds

Edit: An idea proposed by someone else in the thread which I think is awesome would be to decrease the initial cost of the ability. This would reward thoughtful, skillful healing and punish single button mashing healing. Also I understand this may have a negative effect on PvE so make it a PvP only effect on the ability. Additionally I agree that these changes should be implemented alongside changes to proc set damage and fixed to bugs like CC lock. It is certainly not the only unbalanced part of PvP, just one of multiple issues.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Lol, Just no. Might as well remove the whole class than and most of the resto staff skills.

Ishammael wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Honestly I don't really like this, as it really would kill dedicated healers in groups. I know this game doesn't really revolve around the healer/tank/dps trinity but there's something to be said for an organized group where healers heal and dps dps rather than relying on self heals. I don't want to destroy healers altogether, I would just like to see it be more involved than repeated burst heals using the same skill, in the same way that killing someone should require more than weaving one skill with a light/heavy attack which procs two instant damage sets.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75%

it will not affect pve, it will be only on pvp when at all most people have selfheals , only scrub zergs who are mindless running will be punished by no having any selfheal, rely only on also mindless botheal who just spam 1 button to keep zerg alive.

its really funny if for exaple you with friends, 4-5 in group, normal players, no stupid botheal etc, it will be fo=unny when we will meet also 4-5 people group but with healing bot and then kill someone will be almost impossible because of botheal, is it fun?

and did you still dont know about possible nerf to proc sets on pvp with next patch?

I don't think you truly understand how the 50% Battle Spirit debuff affected the balance of classes.

An across the board healing reduction like that dramatically increase the relative power of the class with the best healing. Just like what happened with IC. 75% healing debuff would make Templar healing even better and more necessary.

ehh do you usnderstand this? 75% healing reduction to your allies....this mean your selfhealing will be not touched, only your healing to your allies will be less and by this healing bot will be very nerfed which is just arrow in knee to normal templar who are punishing with heal nerfs etc because of QQ about healbots

Joy_Division · December 2016

Edziu wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Malubeth/reactive wearing templar healbots spamming BoL are the worst kind of cancer are broken, easy mode, OP healers in PvP right now IMO. I dislike them more than proc set stackers I think (maybe, it's close). They are the toughest class to kill by far and they won't kill you, but the other members of their group who they are keeping alive will. Or, they will sit there holding block and spamming BoL until they get their destro ult and can go offfensive with one button. One or two BoL and a player goes from almost zero health to full health. In an outnumbered fight, if you try to focus the healer first (which generally should be a good strategy), they can keep themselves alive easily while their group members beat on you. And if you focus on other members of their group, you will get one down to almost no health to see them instantly go back to full. The malubeth/reactive set is cancerous for sure and is a huge reason why these templars can be so unkillable, but BoL is a problem. It should be an "oh sh**" heal and not one that can be spammed endlessly.

What I propose is a decrease to the base cost of the ability and a cost increase on subsequent casts of BoL, similar to how streak functions currently. 50% cost increase is over the top, but some sort of small increase each time it is recast within a certain time frame, say 4 seconds (I think that is what streak is), would solve this issue of templars being able to keep themselves and everyone in their small group alive by pressing a single button over and over again. The idea is this cost increase would not really hurt until it is spammed 3-4 times in about 5 seconds

Edit: An idea proposed by someone else in the thread which I think is awesome would be to decrease the initial cost of the ability. This would reward thoughtful, skillful healing and punish single button mashing healing. Also I understand this may have a negative effect on PvE so make it a PvP only effect on the ability. Additionally I agree that these changes should be implemented alongside changes to proc set damage and fixed to bugs like CC lock. It is certainly not the only unbalanced part of PvP, just one of multiple issues.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Lol, Just no. Might as well remove the whole class than and most of the resto staff skills.

Ishammael wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Honestly I don't really like this, as it really would kill dedicated healers in groups. I know this game doesn't really revolve around the healer/tank/dps trinity but there's something to be said for an organized group where healers heal and dps dps rather than relying on self heals. I don't want to destroy healers altogether, I would just like to see it be more involved than repeated burst heals using the same skill, in the same way that killing someone should require more than weaving one skill with a light/heavy attack which procs two instant damage sets.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75%

it will not affect pve, it will be only on pvp when at all most people have selfheals , only scrub zergs who are mindless running will be punished by no having any selfheal, rely only on also mindless botheal who just spam 1 button to keep zerg alive.

its really funny if for exaple you with friends, 4-5 in group, normal players, no stupid botheal etc, it will be fo=unny when we will meet also 4-5 people group but with healing bot and then kill someone will be almost impossible because of botheal, is it fun?

and did you still dont know about possible nerf to proc sets on pvp with next patch?

I don't think you truly understand how the 50% Battle Spirit debuff affected the balance of classes.

An across the board healing reduction like that dramatically increase the relative power of the class with the best healing. Just like what happened with IC. 75% healing debuff would make Templar healing even better and more necessary.

ehh do you usnderstand this? 75% healing reduction to your allies....this mean your selfhealing will be not touched, only your healing to your allies will be less and by this healing bot will be very nerfed which is just arrow in knee to normal templar who are punishing with heal nerfs etc because of QQ about healbots

We understand, mr "T-bagging radiantspam cancerplar" and "Khajiit stamina NB" that you want to promote to ZoS game mechanics that heavily bias how you choose to play. Since you spend all of you time dodging, vigoring, and rallying you would be completely unaffected by healing reduction to allies. Meanwhile you want to completely gut another playstyle that just happens to counter what you do.

If there is any problem with healing mechanic in Cyrodiil, it's that people can make a glass cannon DPS build that's not even magicka and yet has comparable self-healing as the very radiantspam cancerplar that you QQ about.

Edziu · December 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Malubeth/reactive wearing templar healbots spamming BoL are the worst kind of cancer are broken, easy mode, OP healers in PvP right now IMO. I dislike them more than proc set stackers I think (maybe, it's close). They are the toughest class to kill by far and they won't kill you, but the other members of their group who they are keeping alive will. Or, they will sit there holding block and spamming BoL until they get their destro ult and can go offfensive with one button. One or two BoL and a player goes from almost zero health to full health. In an outnumbered fight, if you try to focus the healer first (which generally should be a good strategy), they can keep themselves alive easily while their group members beat on you. And if you focus on other members of their group, you will get one down to almost no health to see them instantly go back to full. The malubeth/reactive set is cancerous for sure and is a huge reason why these templars can be so unkillable, but BoL is a problem. It should be an "oh sh**" heal and not one that can be spammed endlessly.

What I propose is a decrease to the base cost of the ability and a cost increase on subsequent casts of BoL, similar to how streak functions currently. 50% cost increase is over the top, but some sort of small increase each time it is recast within a certain time frame, say 4 seconds (I think that is what streak is), would solve this issue of templars being able to keep themselves and everyone in their small group alive by pressing a single button over and over again. The idea is this cost increase would not really hurt until it is spammed 3-4 times in about 5 seconds

Edit: An idea proposed by someone else in the thread which I think is awesome would be to decrease the initial cost of the ability. This would reward thoughtful, skillful healing and punish single button mashing healing. Also I understand this may have a negative effect on PvE so make it a PvP only effect on the ability. Additionally I agree that these changes should be implemented alongside changes to proc set damage and fixed to bugs like CC lock. It is certainly not the only unbalanced part of PvP, just one of multiple issues.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Lol, Just no. Might as well remove the whole class than and most of the resto staff skills.

Ishammael wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Honestly I don't really like this, as it really would kill dedicated healers in groups. I know this game doesn't really revolve around the healer/tank/dps trinity but there's something to be said for an organized group where healers heal and dps dps rather than relying on self heals. I don't want to destroy healers altogether, I would just like to see it be more involved than repeated burst heals using the same skill, in the same way that killing someone should require more than weaving one skill with a light/heavy attack which procs two instant damage sets.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75%

it will not affect pve, it will be only on pvp when at all most people have selfheals , only scrub zergs who are mindless running will be punished by no having any selfheal, rely only on also mindless botheal who just spam 1 button to keep zerg alive.

its really funny if for exaple you with friends, 4-5 in group, normal players, no stupid botheal etc, it will be fo=unny when we will meet also 4-5 people group but with healing bot and then kill someone will be almost impossible because of botheal, is it fun?

and did you still dont know about possible nerf to proc sets on pvp with next patch?

I don't think you truly understand how the 50% Battle Spirit debuff affected the balance of classes.

An across the board healing reduction like that dramatically increase the relative power of the class with the best healing. Just like what happened with IC. 75% healing debuff would make Templar healing even better and more necessary.

ehh do you usnderstand this? 75% healing reduction to your allies....this mean your selfhealing will be not touched, only your healing to your allies will be less and by this healing bot will be very nerfed which is just arrow in knee to normal templar who are punishing with heal nerfs etc because of QQ about healbots

We understand, mr "T-bagging radiantspam cancerplar" and "Khajiit stamina NB" that you want to promote to ZoS game mechanics that heavily bias how you choose to play. Since you spend all of you time dodging, vigoring, and rallying you would be completely unaffected by healing reduction to allies. Meanwhile you want to completely gut another playstyle that just happens to counter what you do.

If there is any problem with healing mechanic in Cyrodiil, it's that people can make a glass cannon DPS build that's not even magicka and yet has comparable self-healing as the very radiantspam cancerplar that you QQ about.

so with what do you have problem? you wont be punished by any self healing, only botheals who just spamming 1 button with block and keeping alive everything around will be punished just as be nothing more than 1 button spam like blazingplar or old wreck blow spammers

you cant kill this botheal and he wont kil you but then his ally will kill you and you will be not able to kill him because of insta spam heals from this unkillable botheal which is nonsense and just stupid.

if you want to survive then go with something to keep you alive, any heal etc instead of go with this bot heal, trow from bar all heals and place any other skill to fight because you have botheal on your back whiuch will prevent you from die

EDIT: forgot..this will just nerf zergs with this healing reduction, this will not touch small scale to much because everyone in small scale have own heals etc

AverageJo3Gam3r · December 2016

yodased wrote: »

And effectively murder trials healing.

@yodased healing springs >> BoL for trials healing. I don't agree with the OPs proposal, but trials healing isn't the reason.

Joy_Division · December 2016

Edziu wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Malubeth/reactive wearing templar healbots spamming BoL are the worst kind of cancer are broken, easy mode, OP healers in PvP right now IMO. I dislike them more than proc set stackers I think (maybe, it's close). They are the toughest class to kill by far and they won't kill you, but the other members of their group who they are keeping alive will. Or, they will sit there holding block and spamming BoL until they get their destro ult and can go offfensive with one button. One or two BoL and a player goes from almost zero health to full health. In an outnumbered fight, if you try to focus the healer first (which generally should be a good strategy), they can keep themselves alive easily while their group members beat on you. And if you focus on other members of their group, you will get one down to almost no health to see them instantly go back to full. The malubeth/reactive set is cancerous for sure and is a huge reason why these templars can be so unkillable, but BoL is a problem. It should be an "oh sh**" heal and not one that can be spammed endlessly.

What I propose is a decrease to the base cost of the ability and a cost increase on subsequent casts of BoL, similar to how streak functions currently. 50% cost increase is over the top, but some sort of small increase each time it is recast within a certain time frame, say 4 seconds (I think that is what streak is), would solve this issue of templars being able to keep themselves and everyone in their small group alive by pressing a single button over and over again. The idea is this cost increase would not really hurt until it is spammed 3-4 times in about 5 seconds

Edit: An idea proposed by someone else in the thread which I think is awesome would be to decrease the initial cost of the ability. This would reward thoughtful, skillful healing and punish single button mashing healing. Also I understand this may have a negative effect on PvE so make it a PvP only effect on the ability. Additionally I agree that these changes should be implemented alongside changes to proc set damage and fixed to bugs like CC lock. It is certainly not the only unbalanced part of PvP, just one of multiple issues.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Lol, Just no. Might as well remove the whole class than and most of the resto staff skills.

Ishammael wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Honestly I don't really like this, as it really would kill dedicated healers in groups. I know this game doesn't really revolve around the healer/tank/dps trinity but there's something to be said for an organized group where healers heal and dps dps rather than relying on self heals. I don't want to destroy healers altogether, I would just like to see it be more involved than repeated burst heals using the same skill, in the same way that killing someone should require more than weaving one skill with a light/heavy attack which procs two instant damage sets.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75%

it will not affect pve, it will be only on pvp when at all most people have selfheals , only scrub zergs who are mindless running will be punished by no having any selfheal, rely only on also mindless botheal who just spam 1 button to keep zerg alive.

its really funny if for exaple you with friends, 4-5 in group, normal players, no stupid botheal etc, it will be fo=unny when we will meet also 4-5 people group but with healing bot and then kill someone will be almost impossible because of botheal, is it fun?

and did you still dont know about possible nerf to proc sets on pvp with next patch?

I don't think you truly understand how the 50% Battle Spirit debuff affected the balance of classes.

An across the board healing reduction like that dramatically increase the relative power of the class with the best healing. Just like what happened with IC. 75% healing debuff would make Templar healing even better and more necessary.

ehh do you usnderstand this? 75% healing reduction to your allies....this mean your selfhealing will be not touched, only your healing to your allies will be less and by this healing bot will be very nerfed which is just arrow in knee to normal templar who are punishing with heal nerfs etc because of QQ about healbots

We understand, mr "T-bagging radiantspam cancerplar" and "Khajiit stamina NB" that you want to promote to ZoS game mechanics that heavily bias how you choose to play. Since you spend all of you time dodging, vigoring, and rallying you would be completely unaffected by healing reduction to allies. Meanwhile you want to completely gut another playstyle that just happens to counter what you do.

If there is any problem with healing mechanic in Cyrodiil, it's that people can make a glass cannon DPS build that's not even magicka and yet has comparable self-healing as the very radiantspam cancerplar that you QQ about.

so with what do you have problem? you wont be punished by any self healing, only botheals who just spamming 1 button with block and keeping alive everything around will be punished just as be nothing more than 1 button spam like blazingplar or old wreck blow spammers

you cant kill this botheal and he wont kil you but then his ally will kill you and you will be not able to kill him because of insta spam heals from this unkillable botheal which is nonsense and just stupid.

if you want to survive then go with something to keep you alive, any heal etc instead of go with this bot heal, trow from bar all heals and place any other skill to fight because you have botheal on your back whiuch will prevent you from die

EDIT: forgot..this will just nerf zergs with this healing reduction, this will not touch small scale to much because everyone in small scale have own heals etc

I mostly have a problem with people campaigning for nerfs that will directly benefit their playstyle. I especially have a problem with this when coming from such an obvious bias as yourself with all the dismissive "botheal" comments. You don't even try to be objective.

Edziu · December 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Malubeth/reactive wearing templar healbots spamming BoL are the worst kind of cancer are broken, easy mode, OP healers in PvP right now IMO. I dislike them more than proc set stackers I think (maybe, it's close). They are the toughest class to kill by far and they won't kill you, but the other members of their group who they are keeping alive will. Or, they will sit there holding block and spamming BoL until they get their destro ult and can go offfensive with one button. One or two BoL and a player goes from almost zero health to full health. In an outnumbered fight, if you try to focus the healer first (which generally should be a good strategy), they can keep themselves alive easily while their group members beat on you. And if you focus on other members of their group, you will get one down to almost no health to see them instantly go back to full. The malubeth/reactive set is cancerous for sure and is a huge reason why these templars can be so unkillable, but BoL is a problem. It should be an "oh sh**" heal and not one that can be spammed endlessly.

What I propose is a decrease to the base cost of the ability and a cost increase on subsequent casts of BoL, similar to how streak functions currently. 50% cost increase is over the top, but some sort of small increase each time it is recast within a certain time frame, say 4 seconds (I think that is what streak is), would solve this issue of templars being able to keep themselves and everyone in their small group alive by pressing a single button over and over again. The idea is this cost increase would not really hurt until it is spammed 3-4 times in about 5 seconds

Edit: An idea proposed by someone else in the thread which I think is awesome would be to decrease the initial cost of the ability. This would reward thoughtful, skillful healing and punish single button mashing healing. Also I understand this may have a negative effect on PvE so make it a PvP only effect on the ability. Additionally I agree that these changes should be implemented alongside changes to proc set damage and fixed to bugs like CC lock. It is certainly not the only unbalanced part of PvP, just one of multiple issues.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Lol, Just no. Might as well remove the whole class than and most of the resto staff skills.

Ishammael wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Honestly I don't really like this, as it really would kill dedicated healers in groups. I know this game doesn't really revolve around the healer/tank/dps trinity but there's something to be said for an organized group where healers heal and dps dps rather than relying on self heals. I don't want to destroy healers altogether, I would just like to see it be more involved than repeated burst heals using the same skill, in the same way that killing someone should require more than weaving one skill with a light/heavy attack which procs two instant damage sets.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75%

it will not affect pve, it will be only on pvp when at all most people have selfheals , only scrub zergs who are mindless running will be punished by no having any selfheal, rely only on also mindless botheal who just spam 1 button to keep zerg alive.

its really funny if for exaple you with friends, 4-5 in group, normal players, no stupid botheal etc, it will be fo=unny when we will meet also 4-5 people group but with healing bot and then kill someone will be almost impossible because of botheal, is it fun?

and did you still dont know about possible nerf to proc sets on pvp with next patch?

I don't think you truly understand how the 50% Battle Spirit debuff affected the balance of classes.

An across the board healing reduction like that dramatically increase the relative power of the class with the best healing. Just like what happened with IC. 75% healing debuff would make Templar healing even better and more necessary.

ehh do you usnderstand this? 75% healing reduction to your allies....this mean your selfhealing will be not touched, only your healing to your allies will be less and by this healing bot will be very nerfed which is just arrow in knee to normal templar who are punishing with heal nerfs etc because of QQ about healbots

We understand, mr "T-bagging radiantspam cancerplar" and "Khajiit stamina NB" that you want to promote to ZoS game mechanics that heavily bias how you choose to play. Since you spend all of you time dodging, vigoring, and rallying you would be completely unaffected by healing reduction to allies. Meanwhile you want to completely gut another playstyle that just happens to counter what you do.

If there is any problem with healing mechanic in Cyrodiil, it's that people can make a glass cannon DPS build that's not even magicka and yet has comparable self-healing as the very radiantspam cancerplar that you QQ about.

so with what do you have problem? you wont be punished by any self healing, only botheals who just spamming 1 button with block and keeping alive everything around will be punished just as be nothing more than 1 button spam like blazingplar or old wreck blow spammers

you cant kill this botheal and he wont kil you but then his ally will kill you and you will be not able to kill him because of insta spam heals from this unkillable botheal which is nonsense and just stupid.

if you want to survive then go with something to keep you alive, any heal etc instead of go with this bot heal, trow from bar all heals and place any other skill to fight because you have botheal on your back whiuch will prevent you from die

EDIT: forgot..this will just nerf zergs with this healing reduction, this will not touch small scale to much because everyone in small scale have own heals etc

I mostly have a problem with people campaigning for nerfs that will directly benefit their playstyle. I especially have a problem with this when coming from such an obvious bias as yourself with all the dismissive "botheal" comments. You don't even try to be objective.

I dont see to much playstyle in zerg, its just 1-2 button spam for everyone and running in zerg from keep to keep

Ishammael · December 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Malubeth/reactive wearing templar healbots spamming BoL are the worst kind of cancer are broken, easy mode, OP healers in PvP right now IMO. I dislike them more than proc set stackers I think (maybe, it's close). They are the toughest class to kill by far and they won't kill you, but the other members of their group who they are keeping alive will. Or, they will sit there holding block and spamming BoL until they get their destro ult and can go offfensive with one button. One or two BoL and a player goes from almost zero health to full health. In an outnumbered fight, if you try to focus the healer first (which generally should be a good strategy), they can keep themselves alive easily while their group members beat on you. And if you focus on other members of their group, you will get one down to almost no health to see them instantly go back to full. The malubeth/reactive set is cancerous for sure and is a huge reason why these templars can be so unkillable, but BoL is a problem. It should be an "oh sh**" heal and not one that can be spammed endlessly.

What I propose is a decrease to the base cost of the ability and a cost increase on subsequent casts of BoL, similar to how streak functions currently. 50% cost increase is over the top, but some sort of small increase each time it is recast within a certain time frame, say 4 seconds (I think that is what streak is), would solve this issue of templars being able to keep themselves and everyone in their small group alive by pressing a single button over and over again. The idea is this cost increase would not really hurt until it is spammed 3-4 times in about 5 seconds

Edit: An idea proposed by someone else in the thread which I think is awesome would be to decrease the initial cost of the ability. This would reward thoughtful, skillful healing and punish single button mashing healing. Also I understand this may have a negative effect on PvE so make it a PvP only effect on the ability. Additionally I agree that these changes should be implemented alongside changes to proc set damage and fixed to bugs like CC lock. It is certainly not the only unbalanced part of PvP, just one of multiple issues.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Lol, Just no. Might as well remove the whole class than and most of the resto staff skills.

Ishammael wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75% and problem solved, no punish for solo playing using this skill or on pve, it will only punish those heal bots because they heals will be worse to their allies only on pvp, it will be counter only for heal bots while mostly players at all have selfheals on pvp

Honestly I don't really like this, as it really would kill dedicated healers in groups. I know this game doesn't really revolve around the healer/tank/dps trinity but there's something to be said for an organized group where healers heal and dps dps rather than relying on self heals. I don't want to destroy healers altogether, I would just like to see it be more involved than repeated burst heals using the same skill, in the same way that killing someone should require more than weaving one skill with a light/heavy attack which procs two instant damage sets.

reduce healing your allies in battle spirit by maybe 75%

it will not affect pve, it will be only on pvp when at all most people have selfheals , only scrub zergs who are mindless running will be punished by no having any selfheal, rely only on also mindless botheal who just spam 1 button to keep zerg alive.

its really funny if for exaple you with friends, 4-5 in group, normal players, no stupid botheal etc, it will be fo=unny when we will meet also 4-5 people group but with healing bot and then kill someone will be almost impossible because of botheal, is it fun?

and did you still dont know about possible nerf to proc sets on pvp with next patch?

I don't think you truly understand how the 50% Battle Spirit debuff affected the balance of classes.

An across the board healing reduction like that dramatically increase the relative power of the class with the best healing. Just like what happened with IC. 75% healing debuff would make Templar healing even better and more necessary.

ehh do you usnderstand this? 75% healing reduction to your allies....this mean your selfhealing will be not touched, only your healing to your allies will be less and by this healing bot will be very nerfed which is just arrow in knee to normal templar who are punishing with heal nerfs etc because of QQ about healbots

We understand, mr "T-bagging radiantspam cancerplar" and "Khajiit stamina NB" that you want to promote to ZoS game mechanics that heavily bias how you choose to play. Since you spend all of you time dodging, vigoring, and rallying you would be completely unaffected by healing reduction to allies. Meanwhile you want to completely gut another playstyle that just happens to counter what you do.

If there is any problem with healing mechanic in Cyrodiil, it's that people can make a glass cannon DPS build that's not even magicka and yet has comparable self-healing as the very radiantspam cancerplar that you QQ about.

so with what do you have problem? you wont be punished by any self healing, only botheals who just spamming 1 button with block and keeping alive everything around will be punished just as be nothing more than 1 button spam like blazingplar or old wreck blow spammers

you cant kill this botheal and he wont kil you but then his ally will kill you and you will be not able to kill him because of insta spam heals from this unkillable botheal which is nonsense and just stupid.

if you want to survive then go with something to keep you alive, any heal etc instead of go with this bot heal, trow from bar all heals and place any other skill to fight because you have botheal on your back whiuch will prevent you from die

EDIT: forgot..this will just nerf zergs with this healing reduction, this will not touch small scale to much because everyone in small scale have own heals etc

I mostly have a problem with people campaigning for nerfs that will directly benefit their playstyle. I especially have a problem with this when coming from such an obvious bias as yourself with all the dismissive "botheal" comments. You don't even try to be objective.

Don't bother, Joy.
Not worth it.

idk · December 2016

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Malubeth/reactive wearing templar healbots spamming BoL are the worst kind of cancer are broken, easy mode, OP healers in PvP right now IMO. I dislike them more than proc set stackers I think (maybe, it's close). They are the toughest class to kill by far and they won't kill you, but the other members of their group who they are keeping alive will. Or, they will sit there holding block and spamming BoL until they get their destro ult and can go offfensive with one button. One or two BoL and a player goes from almost zero health to full health. In an outnumbered fight, if you try to focus the healer first (which generally should be a good strategy), they can keep themselves alive easily while their group members beat on you. And if you focus on other members of their group, you will get one down to almost no health to see them instantly go back to full. The malubeth/reactive set is cancerous for sure and is a huge reason why these templars can be so unkillable, but BoL is a problem. It should be an "oh sh**" heal and not one that can be spammed endlessly.

What I propose is a decrease to the base cost of the ability and a cost increase on subsequent casts of BoL, similar to how streak functions currently. 50% cost increase is over the top, but some sort of small increase each time it is recast within a certain time frame, say 4 seconds (I think that is what streak is), would solve this issue of templars being able to keep themselves and everyone in their small group alive by pressing a single button over and over again. The idea is this cost increase would not really hurt until it is spammed 3-4 times in about 5 seconds

Edit: An idea proposed by someone else in the thread which I think is awesome would be to decrease the initial cost of the ability. This would reward thoughtful, skillful healing and punish single button mashing healing. Also I understand this may have a negative effect on PvE so make it a PvP only effect on the ability. Additionally I agree that these changes should be implemented alongside changes to proc set damage and fixed to bugs like CC lock. It is certainly not the only unbalanced part of PvP, just one of multiple issues.

@Blackfyre20

A L2P thread if I ever saw one.

Which skill of yours will we neef as well. Humm. Lmao.

cschwingeb14_ESO · December 2016

The problem is not BoL, or any specific heal. It's the ease with which people can get a massive buff to healing taken (and done). +50% healing done and +60% healing taken is to easy to get. This is also a problem with DKs due to their passive.

The above probably deserves its own thread. ZOS doesn't seem to realize that in a situation where there is incoming heals and damage, that a healing received bonus is very similar to a damage reduction. 30% healing received buff is a lot like a 25% reduction in damage taken.

It's also partially about how ineffective heal debuffs are. Templars can remove them too easily/cheaply. BoL may be expensive, but Ritual is dirt cheap. Which makes poisons mostly useless against them too

Paraflex · December 2016

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

The problem is not BoL, or any specific heal. It's the ease with which people can get a massive buff to healing taken (and done). +50% healing done and +60% healing taken is to easy to get. This is also a problem with DKs due to their passive.

The above probably deserves its own thread. ZOS doesn't seem to realize that in a situation where there is incoming heals and damage, that a healing received bonus is very similar to a damage reduction. 30% healing received buff is a lot like a 25% reduction in damage taken.

It's also partially about how ineffective heal debuffs are. Templars can remove them too easily/cheaply. BoL may be expensive, but Ritual is dirt cheap. Which makes poisons mostly useless against them too

It's our house let us protect it against poison

Ashamray · December 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

If there is any problem with healing mechanic in Cyrodiil, it's that people can make a glass cannon DPS build that's not even magicka and yet has comparable self-healing as the very radiantspam cancerplar that you QQ about.

+1 and more.
People can make a tanky char with maximized damaging stats (stam \ weapon dmg) that also boost healing, pop vitality pot and outperform a magicka templar in self healing.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · December 2016

at this point vigor with one dodge is effectively as good as bol on good builds. bol does not need a nerf. reactive and malubeth are overperforming not bol. learn to use healing debuffs

Mayrael · December 2016

You nerf lovers and your ideas. If BoL gets cost increase Cloak and Taloons should get it to, lets be fair those are alsi efective ways of counter play! Oh no someone ressisted my (lack of) DPS! Nerf him! -_- I dont have any problems with killing templars, DKs, NBs or Sorcs unless they are totaly uber tanks and they deal no dmg to me so I can ignore them. If someone gets away from my death stroke from time to time I dont mind, If someone is unkillable but can kill nobody its fine. From what Ive read your bigest issue with BoL is that templars can go from low HP to full in few casts of BoL so to be fair:
1. If he went down to low HP it means that he can be killed, you just lack skill to do it, if you think that finishing someone off is the same as bringing him to execute range I have no words for you.
2. Casting three times BoL will cost at least 1/3 of total templar magica. If he also attacks you in between it means that he will be out of resources much faster than you think. Fighting good templar is like fighting magsorc, you need to be patient. You cant jump on him, proc two sets, unload ulti and think "im so pro", but this is how you would like to be dont you?
3. I have killed other templars with my half DPS half tank build, not even full dps and still managed to kill them sic! Im a heretic!

Qbiken · December 2016

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

How to murder non-CP-campaigns: Increase BoL cost.
How to murder PvE: Increase BoL cost.

Don't blame the skills for something that's the CP's fault.

Cmon lieb, I see you in Azura all the time running around in groups of 6-8 ppl and 3 of u constant spamming healing stuff while the rest pops destro ults. Impossible to do anything against that in a non-CP campaign (you´re doing it well and I might find the gameplay cheese and boring but as long as it works I guess). This gameplay can be a reason (at least I believe so) why some people want skills like BoL nerfed.

Volrion · December 2016

L2P.

If a healer has "OP healz" there's a good chance they have very little stamina sustain, and even less damage output.

Either focus the squishier players first, or drain the healer's resources by CC or poisons.

There are plenty of counters.

Paraflex · December 2016

SourishWhale wrote: »

L2P.

If a healer has "OP healz" there's a good chance they have very little stamina sustain, and even less damage output.

Either focus the squishier players first, or drain the healer's resources by CC or poisons.

There are plenty of counters.

Easier said than done as a main healer in a PvP group I'm not squish and my resources rarely get stressed. Poisons are easily cleansed and if you waste to much time trying to kill me...well my dps will kill you or your support.

Healers should be forced to run light armor to heal...they should die quick if in light armor...if you run heavy you should have *** heals with *** resources but right now the game over buffed heavy armor for healing Templars which is why it's such a cancer

Solariken · December 2016

I actually think a 2 second increased cost mechanic would be a good addition to Rushed Ceremony (and morphs). PvE'rs would go into a rage about it though.

However I also think a good trade-off for adding a ramping cost increase to BoL would be to change the Mending passive to provide up to 12% increased healing done to targets based on missing health. (ALL healing done - it currently only increases the power of Restoring Light abilities)

Blackfyre20 · December 2016

Mayrael wrote: »

You nerf lovers and your ideas. If BoL gets cost increase Cloak and Taloons should get it to, lets be fair those are alsi efective ways of counter play! Oh no someone ressisted my (lack of) DPS! Nerf him! -_- I dont have any problems with killing templars, DKs, NBs or Sorcs unless they are totaly uber tanks and they deal no dmg to me so I can ignore them. If someone gets away from my death stroke from time to time I dont mind, If someone is unkillable but can kill nobody its fine. From what Ive read your bigest issue with BoL is that templars can go from low HP to full in few casts of BoL so to be fair:
1. If he went down to low HP it means that he can be killed, you just lack skill to do it, if you think that finishing someone off is the same as bringing him to execute range I have no words for you.
2. Casting three times BoL will cost at least 1/3 of total templar magica. If he also attacks you in between it means that he will be out of resources much faster than you think. Fighting good templar is like fighting magsorc, you need to be patient. You cant jump on him, proc two sets, unload ulti and think "im so pro", but this is how you would like to be dont you?
3. I have killed other templars with my half DPS half tank build, not even full dps and still managed to kill them sic! Im a heretic!

Yea I can get behind giving talons and cloak the same treatment. Gap closers too.

Appreciate the condescending tone in the rest of the post. 1) Doesn't make sense 2) Don't use proc sets but thank you for being about the 10th person to claim that I do without any mention of it and even repeated assertions of the opposite 3) Those are garbage templars then and certainly not ones who are playing as group healers. Pat yourself on the back though, you must be really good.