The New PvP.. Everyone is OP! (even the lousy players)

RazorCaltrops · November 2016

Dev wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You preface by telling me upfront you don't PvP and that you wish ZOS would just kill off PvP for good,

Yes i did. It is an opinion, and while others disagree, that does not invalidate the ability for me to have one.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

then you proceed to make rash assumptions about the nature of PvP players

I would not say that they were rash. I can observe, rationalize and understand the motivation seen in the posts. Rashness is in general used to describe an action without thought, and i assure you that i did think about what i wrote before posting it.

It was not a rash statement, but based on the last few years of reading this forum, watching people in game, and trying cyrodil personally.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Let me elucidate. Cyrodiil as a zone worked on launch, contrary to what you say. There were no crazy lag performance issues until 1.2 when ZOS introduced the anti bot code which moved previously client side calculations onto server side instead.

LOL, oh how beautiful the world must look through rose colored glasses.
Seriously, so you think that all those players who hit max level on day 1 due to xp glitches, all the spam campers, the zone crashes and the people with alts in other alliances so that they could cheat...

And PVP players were crying then too, or is it easier to forget that for 2 years, it has been nothing but a constant stream of crying. Shield stacking, streak kills, vamp, DK, and now proc sets, all PVP players do is cry until something is nerfed and it always impacts PVE.

Bottom line:
My shields in PVE are now only 6 seconds because of PVP crying

My puncturing sweeps no longer have the push back or damage they did before

my light armor is now a pale fraction of the defense it had before.

vamp was nerfed at several points

and now you guys are crying about proc sets...

.
TBH, there are alot more examples i can make, but i think i made my point.
PVP cries, PVE suffers.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Saying PvP is inherently unbalancable is a fallacious argument, or do you posit that there are conceptually no changes that can ever be made which would result in PvP being ether more or less unbalanced that it previously was?

As long as there are classes, and the game is bound to the mmo trinity of tank/heal/dps, pvp can never be balanced.
A healer or tank will never be on par with a dps, and pvp is always focused on DPS. The choice of skills, gear and everything else varies for the content. A DPS in veli/viper/red will put up good numbers in pve and pvp, but tank and healer builds just dont work the same.

Bakven wrote: »

Why are you even on this forum? Obviously you don't like pvp. Guess what? no one cares what you don't like.

That is ok, because it is clear that ZOS doesnt care about what you like. I am on the forum because this thread caught my attention the same way it did for everyone who read or posted here.

Bakven wrote: »

You like pve, well imagine if pve was as broken as pvp. you'd be whining more than you are about pvp existing.

The issue is that PVE is constantly being nerfed because of the PVP crybabies here.
"Oh this is too OP, must be nerfed" has had far more complaints from PVP players then PVE. The reason is simply that the NPCs killed in PVE dont cry about it on the forums.

Are people so naive that they think crying about these sets will not end up with a bad implementation for PVE players?

Bakven wrote: »

If you don't like pvp go play a game that doesn't have pvp or stay out of Cyrodiil and quit complaining about what pvp'ers discuss.

I never said i dont like pvp, but i do not like how it was and is within ESO.

You are aware that the 'if you dont like it, then leave' mentality works both ways:

If you dont like the proc sets, or the impact that progress has been made in the game, then YOU can go play other games and leave ESO. Cry as much as you want, but the reality is that Elder Scrolls is a RPG, it is not CoD or destiny. If you want PVP, then go play a PVP game.

I like the proc sets, the animation, the damage and well its 'new shiny gear'. in a game where the community demands 25-30k single target dps for content, i will want any advantage i can get.

Here's another bottom line:

1-Shield stacking DD is a bad DD. Yes damage shields are recommended, it saves lives but only if used timely. you shouldn't spam them in PVE anyway

2-Knocking back trash mobs isn't a big deal. You can't do that to bosses.

3-Heavy Armor is outshining medium and light in pvp, but pve wise 4884 spell penetration ?

4-Devouring swarm in PVE ?

5-The issue is instagibbing people with Viper(Widowmaker)+Tremorscale(Velidreth) combo. No one, absolutely no one is using these proc sets (Tremorscale off-tank anyone ?) that cause PVP problems in trials which are the only PVE content that offer a challenge. (VMA is a different story).

These are not about being naive, these are the facts. Unless ZOS decides to ruin entire gear sets instead of fixing them carefully, PVE won't change.

Yours sincerely,

Someone who cleared everything except Vmol HM and also does PVP

Thelon · November 2016

Dev wrote: »

I like the proc sets, the animation, the damage and well its 'new shiny gear'. in a game where the community demands 25-30k single target dps for content, i will want any advantage i can get.

Um you can hit that deeps with blue gear and no proc sets. By all means, keep potating, but try your best to avoid going full potato.

Dev wrote: »

The irony is that the proc sets do bring balance: anyone can kill anyone in 2 seconds.

Well, so much for that

bowmanz607 · November 2016

To be fair there was one other point in time when everyone was one shoting everyone else before ic. Then came damage reduction across the board. I actually thought that was worse because you didn't need a proc to do it. At least now you need a proc. Not saying it is not fair, just point out one worse point in time imo.

I would also point out that tank troll builds are extremely prevalent in this meta. It is either proc builds or full tank.

But yes, I would like to see more than a bandaid fix to this one.

HonourXL · November 2016

PvP were always broken. So nothing new to me. But if you think you are so called skilled player you shouldnt get killed in 1 sec by 1 person. its getting harder and harder to do 1vX' s just it.

MoeCoastie · November 2016

HonourXL wrote: »

PvP were always broken. So nothing new to me. But if you think you are so called skilled player you shouldnt get killed in 1 sec by 1 person. its getting harder and harder to do 1vX' s just it.

BINGO! its getting harder to 1vX

Flynch · November 2016

I don't understand why proc-sets don't have a negative trait alongside the positive one. Possibly a negative trait that can be negated by coupling it with a positive trait from a non-proc-set, which would give people more variety, as well as move away from the mult-proc-set builds.

Say for instance, viper's gives the player a mild poison DOT and reduces their resistances to poison by 50%, negated by Julianos which could have a purging trait that triggers after taking poison damage for 3 seconds (literally just thinking out loud here btw).

Just something to add a bit of interest to the mix really.

Jsmalls · November 2016

Agreed these proc sets needs to go.

All I see in cyrodiil right now is viper, tremor, veli, comboed with black rose. They sit around 30k health, and do 10 to 15k bursts from procs with virtually no other damage. They are an utter nuisance to deal with.

Canadianeh71 · November 2016

Jsmalls wrote: »

Agreed these proc sets needs to go.

All I see in cyrodiil right now is viper, tremor, veli, comboed with black rose. They sit around 30k health, and do 10 to 15k bursts from procs with virtually no other damage. They are an utter nuisance to deal with.

100%.... everything is geared to new players in a vain attempt to draw newbies while betraying the loyal..........i played forever to get my vet 16's ..all geared out gold, then the BIS gear changed...fine....then the eliminated vet ranks ....fine.....then they made leveling faster ( exp events etc) fine....then they made monster sets grow on trees ( did 150 vet dungeons to get a good portion of original monster sets...now u can get 42 monster shoulders per week and a bagillion helms ) fine w.e hand it all out idc .. .. . . now ur armor kills people for you...really?......whats the point now??..now i just kill people with 2 years playing experience with zero effort using blue black rose / purple viper....and garbo tremorscale....sheild charge + puncture + vigor x repeat..... armor is the only way 2 really kill anyone now cuz most classes can self heal to full health almost instantly....PVE is cool in this game, but why implement dueling at the same time as destroying pvp for everyone....

Wycks · November 2016

Read my sig. Makes you wonder what he actually does.

nosourcenopath · November 2016

I have finally given up and cancelled my subscription. I had been a subscriber for well over a year. I wrote multiple mails, posted in the forums. Zero response from the devs about how ridiculous pvp has become with the proc on proc on proc set meta. Goodbye eso. I recommend everyone else do the same. Off to look for a job like this where I can sit back and ignore customer complaints all day.

a1i3nz · November 2016

PvP is hilarious because everyone is running ridiculous builds and running in giant zergs just insta-wiping each other over and over and over.

It's so awful and the game would be perfect if the sets and ultimates brought in with the last two patches never happened.

All that's left to do is zerg surf

Valencer · November 2016

a1i3n0ct0pu5 wrote: »

PvP is hilarious because everyone is running ridiculous builds and running in giant zergs just insta-wiping each other over and over and over.

It's so awful and the game would be perfect if the sets and ultimates brought in with the last two patches never happened.

All that's left to do is zerg surf

It really started going downhill when they introduced poisons and super-buffed heavy armour. Every update after that has just been even more silliness with overtuned sets and abilities being added.

It's come to the point where pretty much everyone is running either a heavy armour stamina build with heavy proc set usage or a magicka build relying on destro ulti to get kills. A few medium armour procblades here and there too...

It's just mind-boggling how dull theyve managed to make ESO PvP. And the worst part is nothing about this will change until the next update, which is likely at least 2 months away. And then we probably get some great new issues to deal with for the 3 months after that. They don't even bother communicating about PvP balance anymore because they can't be arsed.

visionality · November 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I run tremorscale. Why do I run tremorscale? Because it gives my tank some decent damage.

When people duel me I usually stomp them into the ground.

Tremorscale should not be nerfed for that. Why? Because PVP will never be ballanced. Because the Proc sets are just a reliable way to get burst damage, because if it's not this it'll be something else.

PVP has allways, will allways, must suck. Because it cant co-exist with PVE. I wish designers would learn this. Tremorscale has a place in PVE, and I'd like for that place not to be compromised for the sake of PVP whining.

Let PVP die.

When your tank stomps ppl into the ground due to 2 pieces of armor, you know something is terribly wrong.

visionality · November 2016

I don't think proc sets are the problem, the problem is that proc sets stack. If I'm using Veli/Viper/Widowmaker, I one-shoot ppl not because I really one-shoot them. I kill them because with a bit of luck all three sets proc at almost the same moment, making it impossible for anybody to react.

Easy solution: Use the cooldown of each proc-set for the whole equipment. When Veli procs, viper can't proc before the Veli-cooldown as ended and the other way around. It will still leave some element of surprise in the game (which I like), but one-shots caused by gear only will be done with.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Crom_CCCXVI · November 2016

The idea behind a tank isn't to do damage, if your doing damage now your a heavy armor DPS. (not the same thing). I have this discussion with my guildmates all the time. A tank is a style of play more than it is a build. (especially now where you only real survival is to be spamming the 1H and Shield Ultimate.)

Hawco10 · November 2016

Eye of flame for 26k damage? Yup, pvp working as inteneded right there zos. Usually goes like this,fight one guy, then the unskilled mob turns up just mashing buttons, death recap always has the same stuff on it- viper, eye of flame, storm, insert anything else you like in there, played this as it was challenging, now it's morphed into call of duty with insta pop abilities that do nothing except give Cyrodil a more cod feel. Usual mo in Scourge now is grab a resource and bait people into the tower and get insta popped by the procs, or stick a tent up and park on the bridge between Alesia and Sejenus and farm with the Procs. Day's of the long, good fights are well and truely over inmho.

Crom_CCCXVI · November 2016

I saw people doing duels with no armor the other day.....
wonder why?