The New PvP.. Everyone is OP! (even the lousy players)

Gothren

Tonnopesce wrote: »

You forgot

5: The new shield stacking meteor spammers sorcerers metà.

ZoS we need a balance patch where you fix this game for the sake of pvp.

ROTFL. you need to l2p.

HoloYoitsu

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

He dropped "elucidate". Back off now man. No way we could ever begin to mentally spar with this person. We are all potatoes. There is no going back.

Side note: I too can Google large words.

Is this what your discourse has sunk to? Mocking people for....the parlance they use? I don't know about you, but elucidate is a pretty nondescript word.

I mean, if you're going to make a big deal out of words you apparently would have to google before you could use, then maybe you should rethink your stance on whether or not you are in fact a potato.

Tonnopesce

Gothren wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

You forgot

5: The new shield stacking meteor spammers sorcerers metà.

ZoS we need a balance patch where you fix this game for the sake of pvp.

ROTFL. you need to l2p.

Nah not really an issue, like the other proc sets.
Bad players use them to get some kills, but i still rock with my pelinal hibrid templar in Cyro without them.

Learn to troll...

Kas

sneakymitchell wrote: »

And then battle spirit change. You take 75% less damage from players and 75% less healing revived.

Thank you Zenimax.


Later on we will complain more about not bursting fast enough on players.

i'd love it if:
1. they'd add 75% reduced resource gains from every source except heavy attacks (regen, constitution+black rose, dk ult, helping heands passive, repentance, dark deal, etc)
2. much more resources back from heavy attacks regardless of armor type (change heavy armor passive or add the same effect to a skill of light and medium as well)
3. heavy attacks are interruptible again (bash, c-shock, venom arrow, deep breath)


--> no one-shots but neither infinite sustain without playing well. sure numbers may need further balancing.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

He dropped "elucidate". Back off now man. No way we could ever begin to mentally spar with this person. We are all potatoes. There is no going back.

Side note: I too can Google large words.

Is this what your discourse has sunk to? Mocking people for....the parlance they use? I don't know about you, but elucidate is a pretty nondescript word.

I mean, if you're going to make a big deal out of words you apparently would have to google before you could use, then maybe you should rethink your stance on whether or not you are in fact a potato.

Irony from the person who calls every person who disagrees with them a potato. Also, while you're on your high horse, I have an English degree and Grammerly tells me I have a higher vocabulary than 97% of their users.

Whatever.

Awakatanka

I am also dislike pvp in this game more and more. Can't stand jesus beams, heavy armour and proc sets and full healt if you almost killed the person any more. Everyone is running heavy with proc sets. Jesus beams that are not even used to execute. Even pve is to easy. You can solo dungeons with right sets.

I'm thinking to give it a break but if i break i mostly dont play it anymore. It's a pitty because i liked the game even when i suck at pvp without my proc set.

Everything is made for easy mode except RnG. Dunno why they make the game like this, but it just sucks... they killing the game i liked. if i want to play caputre the flag ( ic bullcrap ) and oneshot everyone i would play cod. And i hate cod.

Celas_Dranacea

Perhaps they should buff the vanilla / non-proc sets a bit more so that those people who choose to fight with abilities alone get an advantage over people who rely on random chance proc sets - that or reduce damage on proc sets.

The-Baconator

This thread has reached toxic levels of potato, zos will have to close it soon or the whole forum will be infected.

But really though how bad do you have to be to believe invisibility pots and siege is an acceptable\viable\non-farcical way to counter a player? I realize there was always an X in 1vX but I had no idea they were such a misinformed and backward people.

Valencer

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Perhaps they should buff the vanilla / non-proc sets a bit more so that those people who choose to fight with abilities alone get an advantage over people who rely on random chance proc sets - that or reduce damage on proc sets.

This game doesn't need more power creep. Just nerf/fix the broken ***

...I say that knowing full well they won't do that

ThePonzzz

I'm not a great PvP player. It took me over a year to warm up to Cyrodiil and another year to "git gud." After many L2P whispers when I spambushed my way into glory, I at least hold my own now. I feel my opinion as a casual-PvE-player-gone-PvP is worth something to this discussion though.

The new multiple proc sets are insane. Getting hit with magma on the second floor of a keep (while there are 2 stories down) seems like a bug/exploit of the system. Having people do 7k magic proc damage on top of a bear that mauls me for another 15k damage is a near unavoidable death situation if I get CC'd. The lower damage and lower heals of Cyrodiil isn't balanced for multiple massive proc damaging sets. We're back to one/two shot kills. And if you don't have those sets, you can't retaliate with the same power.

Don't get me wrong, I'll adjust and try to beat it. I don't care that I die, it's just the damage is back to being insane, but only for people investing in these sets. People without them aren't really able to compare. All you have to start doing is master the run around a tree maneuver, and suddenly you're pretty good. A zerg with similar sets are just eating up people.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

The-Baconator wrote: »

This thread has reached toxic levels of potato, zos will have to close it soon or the whole forum will be infected.

But really though how bad do you have to be to believe invisibility pots and siege is an acceptable\viable\non-farcical way to counter a player? I realize there was always an X in 1vX but I had no idea they were such a misinformed and backward people.

"Toxic levels of potato"

So giving a few different opinions makes something toxic? Not agreeing that all of Cyrodiil is broken makes someone a potato?

How bad do YOU have to be to not try something different? If you have a Zerg coming in, going invisible, running 50 feet to the left and firing a ballista into the Zerg will stop them in their tracks. It's very viable.

Misinformed and backwards? Better than narrowminded and uncreative.

Think outside the box. Do something different. It might not work, but it's better than just crying all the time.

Dev

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You preface by telling me upfront you don't PvP and that you wish ZOS would just kill off PvP for good,

Yes i did. It is an opinion, and while others disagree, that does not invalidate the ability for me to have one.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

then you proceed to make rash assumptions about the nature of PvP players

I would not say that they were rash. I can observe, rationalize and understand the motivation seen in the posts. Rashness is in general used to describe an action without thought, and i assure you that i did think about what i wrote before posting it.

It was not a rash statement, but based on the last few years of reading this forum, watching people in game, and trying cyrodil personally.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Let me elucidate. Cyrodiil as a zone worked on launch, contrary to what you say. There were no crazy lag performance issues until 1.2 when ZOS introduced the anti bot code which moved previously client side calculations onto server side instead.

LOL, oh how beautiful the world must look through rose colored glasses.
Seriously, so you think that all those players who hit max level on day 1 due to xp glitches, all the spam campers, the zone crashes and the people with alts in other alliances so that they could cheat...

And PVP players were crying then too, or is it easier to forget that for 2 years, it has been nothing but a constant stream of crying. Shield stacking, streak kills, vamp, DK, and now proc sets, all PVP players do is cry until something is nerfed and it always impacts PVE.

Bottom line:

1. My shields in PVE are now only 6 seconds because of PVP crying
2. My puncturing sweeps no longer have the push back or damage they did before
3. my light armor is now a pale fraction of the defense it had before.
4. vamp was nerfed at several points
5. and now you guys are crying about proc sets...

.
TBH, there are alot more examples i can make, but i think i made my point.
PVP cries, PVE suffers.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Saying PvP is inherently unbalancable is a fallacious argument, or do you posit that there are conceptually no changes that can ever be made which would result in PvP being ether more or less unbalanced that it previously was?

As long as there are classes, and the game is bound to the mmo trinity of tank/heal/dps, pvp can never be balanced.
A healer or tank will never be on par with a dps, and pvp is always focused on DPS. The choice of skills, gear and everything else varies for the content. A DPS in veli/viper/red will put up good numbers in pve and pvp, but tank and healer builds just dont work the same.

Bakven wrote: »

Why are you even on this forum? Obviously you don't like pvp. Guess what? no one cares what you don't like.

That is ok, because it is clear that ZOS doesnt care about what you like. I am on the forum because this thread caught my attention the same way it did for everyone who read or posted here.

Bakven wrote: »

You like pve, well imagine if pve was as broken as pvp. you'd be whining more than you are about pvp existing.

The issue is that PVE is constantly being nerfed because of the PVP crybabies here.
"Oh this is too OP, must be nerfed" has had far more complaints from PVP players then PVE. The reason is simply that the NPCs killed in PVE dont cry about it on the forums.

Are people so naive that they think crying about these sets will not end up with a bad implementation for PVE players?

Bakven wrote: »

If you don't like pvp go play a game that doesn't have pvp or stay out of Cyrodiil and quit complaining about what pvp'ers discuss.

I never said i dont like pvp, but i do not like how it was and is within ESO.

You are aware that the 'if you dont like it, then leave' mentality works both ways:

If you dont like the proc sets, or the impact that progress has been made in the game, then YOU can go play other games and leave ESO. Cry as much as you want, but the reality is that Elder Scrolls is a RPG, it is not CoD or destiny. If you want PVP, then go play a PVP game.

I like the proc sets, the animation, the damage and well its 'new shiny gear'. in a game where the community demands 25-30k single target dps for content, i will want any advantage i can get.

Lava_Croft

Dev wrote: »

If you want PVP, then go play a PVP game.

You are probably still a fresh potato, but ESO has been heavily marketed as a PvP game because ESO's PvP was and is the only thing that really makes it different from all the other copypaste PvE MMO's that rely on the 15+ year old slot machine mechanics that form the heart of endless PvE grinding for loot.

It's pretty clear to anyone that has been around since launch that PvP is the part of the game that has been suffering since launch, while almost all effort from the developers has been focused on PvE. The fact that people like you come here and say PvP players should just play another game instead of ESO just adds insult to injury.

Jackass.

BohnT

Please stop this stupid discussion how PvP players should look for another game. No one who plays a well geared PvE tank or dd uses tumorscale, the bugged EotS ( other morph deals more damage and Npcs don't leave AoEs), and no one in pve would cry if viper/veli/widowmaker dealt the same dps but apply lower burst.
These sets ruin PvP entirely but the PvE section doesn't lose much if these sets were removed or changed to make PvP a nice place again.
And don't you dare come up with Black Rose if you play BR in PvE you are doing it wrong.

As I said these things ruin PvP and the PvE section wouldn't be affected much if they changed them I look at you tumorscale/viper/velidreth/widowmaker

Dev

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The fact that people like you come here and say PvP players should just play another game instead of ESO just adds insult to injury.

Jackass.

You mean like all the PVP players who say the same exact thing to PVE'ers? As demonstrated in this post, and it was a direct response to the person i was directly quoting.. gotta love hypocrisy!

However it is clear that whatever the plan was for ESO in 2014, failed to the point that their entire strategy shifted. This is not an insult or criticism, but a simple acknowledgement. A lot of things that seemed good in 2014 like Vet ranks, players separated by alliances, subscription only based revenue are all gone in 2016.

If they had kept PVP separated, so that they could adjust skills in PVP without hurting them in PVE, and this includes the gear, then i wouldnt care. However history has shown that when the PVP player cries, abilities will eventually be nerfed. It is a horrible, downward spiral that has ruined nearly every other mmo, and i am hoping that ZoS will finally break that chain.

Do you actually think that it is right that one small community of players is having such negative impact on the rest of the players?

Today it is the proc sets, but its not going to be the last complaint, is it?

How many more abilities have to get nerfed, how much more gear needs to be made obsolete, how much more does every other non-pvp main player have to suffer before it is good enough? And why on Earth should we be quiet about it!

So yea, either adjust or find something else, just like everyone else had to. If that insults you then good, because after 'adjusting' for two years, i just dont care!
My enjoyment of the game is just as meaningful as yours.


This is not CoD with swords: Here the campaign mode is the priority.

HoloYoitsu

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

If you want PVP, then go play a PVP game.

You are probably still a fresh potato, but ESO has been heavily marketed as a PvP game because ESO's PvP was and is the only thing that really makes it different from all the other copypaste PvE MMO's that rely on the 15+ year old slot machine mechanics that form the heart of endless PvE grinding for loot.

It's pretty clear to anyone that has been around since launch that PvP is the part of the game that has been suffering since launch, while almost all effort from the developers has been focused on PvE. The fact that people like you come here and say PvP players should just play another game instead of ESO just adds insult to injury.

Jackass.

You're wasting your breath trying to talk sense to dev & daniel at this point, they are essentially just trolling this thread now and diverting it way off topic.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

If you want PVP, then go play a PVP game.

You are probably still a fresh potato, but ESO has been heavily marketed as a PvP game because ESO's PvP was and is the only thing that really makes it different from all the other copypaste PvE MMO's that rely on the 15+ year old slot machine mechanics that form the heart of endless PvE grinding for loot.

It's pretty clear to anyone that has been around since launch that PvP is the part of the game that has been suffering since launch, while almost all effort from the developers has been focused on PvE. The fact that people like you come here and say PvP players should just play another game instead of ESO just adds insult to injury.

Jackass.

You're wasting your breath trying to talk sense to dev & daniel at this point, they are essentially just trolling this thread now and diverting it way off topic.

I'm not even remotely trolling. I disagree with you. There are options which you are failing to see and then you deflect them by calling people potatoes.

Wreuntzylla

I don't recall ever seeing a PvE add prior to release. Just three faction PvP adds.

Lava_Croft

Dev wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The fact that people like you come here and say PvP players should just play another game instead of ESO just adds insult to injury.

Jackass.

You mean like all the PVP players who say the same exact thing to PVE'ers? As demonstrated in this post, and it was a direct response to the person i was directly quoting.. gotta love hypocrisy!

However it is clear that whatever the plan was for ESO in 2014, failed to the point that their entire strategy shifted. This is not an insult or criticism, but a simple acknowledgement. A lot of things that seemed good in 2014 like Vet ranks, players separated by alliances, subscription only based revenue are all gone in 2016.

If they had kept PVP separated, so that they could adjust skills in PVP without hurting them in PVE, and this includes the gear, then i wouldnt care. However history has shown that when the PVP player cries, abilities will eventually be nerfed. It is a horrible, downward spiral that has ruined nearly every other mmo, and i am hoping that ZoS will finally break that chain.

Do you actually think that it is right that one small community of players is having such negative impact on the rest of the players?

Today it is the proc sets, but its not going to be the last complaint, is it?

How many more abilities have to get nerfed, how much more gear needs to be made obsolete, how much more does every other non-pvp main player have to suffer before it is good enough? And why on Earth should we be quiet about it!

So yea, either adjust or find something else, just like everyone else had to. If that insults you then good, because after 'adjusting' for two years, i just dont care!
My enjoyment of the game is just as meaningful as yours.


This is not CoD with swords: Here the campaign mode is the priority.

If the nerfing of abilities has hurt PvE so much as you say it has, then how come PvE in this game is easier than it has ever been bar the hard mode Trials? All that has happened over the past two years is make PvE easier and easier despite all that 'nerfing' of skills supposedly brought about by PvP. Following your logic, PvE these days should be harder than it was in the past, purely because skills have been nerfed. Clearly this is not the case since the entire game minus hard mode Trials can be completed by a 6-year old randomly mashing buttons. Anyone who has been playing this game since launch can attest to this. Random quest bosses, Cadwell's SIlver and Gold, DLC dungeons, all have been nerfed for PvE players like you, because of crying by PvE players like you, not because of any PvP player demanding them to be nerfed. In fact, most of the PvP players that I know are not happy with the nerfing of PvE content at all since it has made the content boring and does not provide any sense of accomplishment. Credit should be given to ZOS for the fact that the One Tamriel update has brought a bit of challenge back to some parts of the game, like for example the PvE World Bosses.

Claiming that ESO's PvE content has or is in any way suffering from PvP is so incredibly false and misinformed that I wonder if you are just trying to troll people who want to see this game improved. However, there's still the chance that you just have absolutely no clue.

[PS] I have specifically not mentioned the fact that the only real DLC for PvP, the Imperial City, has been nearly entirely gutted because of PvE demands. There's not a single piece of PvE DLC that has been gutted because of PvP demands.

coolermh

In not saying I like the proc-build stuff. But I have never been 1 shotted by this stuff. If you actually get 1 shotted by anything your a terrible player.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

coolermh wrote: »

In not saying I like the proc-build stuff. But I have never been 1 shotted by this stuff. If you actually get 1 shotted by anything your a terrible player.

Yup.

Paraflex

Balance needs to happen nerfing things like


Streak cost per cast
shield stacking (reduced timers)
Malubeth fix
BoL line of sight and less healing per person
Meteor being reflected

All these were good and healthy for the game. I don't think a high proc rate and burst rate with little risk is healthy for the game.

You can run 5 heavy BR 5 Viper 2 Tremer Sword and Board and be a tank with insane burst...what's the risk you take by running this? Nothing....that's not balance

Awakatanka

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

If you want PVP, then go play a PVP game.

You are probably still a fresh potato, but ESO has been heavily marketed as a PvP game because ESO's PvP was and is the only thing that really makes it different from all the other copypaste PvE MMO's that rely on the 15+ year old slot machine mechanics that form the heart of endless PvE grinding for loot.

It's pretty clear to anyone that has been around since launch that PvP is the part of the game that has been suffering since launch, while almost all effort from the developers has been focused on PvE. The fact that people like you come here and say PvP players should just play another game instead of ESO just adds insult to injury.

Jackass.

You're wasting your breath trying to talk sense to dev & daniel at this point, they are essentially just trolling this thread now and diverting it way off topic.

I'm not even remotely trolling. I disagree with you. There are options which you are failing to see and then you deflect them by calling people potatoes.

You trolling mate. PvE is brain death easy now you don't even need proc sets. Normal trails are almost death bevause BoP. You can walk naked in a normal 4 man dungeon and still kill everyting. With right set you can even do a vetran dengeon solo It is people like you that kill PvE and PvP. No nerf... just buf... make everything brain death easy our unbalanced...

Zos is not listing to feedback they get from people that play the pts. Bugs that are reported are still in the game if it goes live after pts. Skills that are to strong they make stronger against advice of the pts testers. Why people still test things and report on pts......

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Awakatanka wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

If you want PVP, then go play a PVP game.

You are probably still a fresh potato, but ESO has been heavily marketed as a PvP game because ESO's PvP was and is the only thing that really makes it different from all the other copypaste PvE MMO's that rely on the 15+ year old slot machine mechanics that form the heart of endless PvE grinding for loot.

It's pretty clear to anyone that has been around since launch that PvP is the part of the game that has been suffering since launch, while almost all effort from the developers has been focused on PvE. The fact that people like you come here and say PvP players should just play another game instead of ESO just adds insult to injury.

Jackass.

You're wasting your breath trying to talk sense to dev & daniel at this point, they are essentially just trolling this thread now and diverting it way off topic.

I'm not even remotely trolling. I disagree with you. There are options which you are failing to see and then you deflect them by calling people potatoes.

You trolling mate. PvE is brain death easy now you don't even need proc sets. Normal trails are almost death bevause BoP. You can walk naked in a normal 4 man dungeon and still kill everyting. With right set you can even do a vetran dengeon solo It is people like you that kill PvE and PvP. No nerf... just buf... make everything brain death easy our unbalanced...

Zos is not listing to feedback they get from people that play the pts. Bugs that are reported are still in the game if it goes live after pts. Skills that are to strong they make stronger against advice of the pts testers. Why people still test things and report on pts......

You're getting me confused with the other guy. I'm the guy saying PVP isn't that bad if you just adjust your build. I don't even wear a proc set.

Dev

Why is it that every time someone has a different opinion, they are suddenly a troll?
If your not into PVP, then your a potato...


Is the purpose of this forum only for those who agree with you?

The original post in this thread is about nerfing the proc sets. I personally am tired of PVP players crying for nerfs that bleed into the other areas of the game.

The responses here show the common thinking whereas 'PVE is easy, you dont need burst because we say you dont', and all the changes were better...

Should we give thanks to the PVP players for ensuring that we can never have content that doesn't meet their approval?

acw37162

One thing that is constant no matter the PVP season or mete (it's true on the PVE side to) there are always people complaining.

Radiant, fear, vicious, lag, the lighting patch, medium armor, Wrecking Blow, streak, shields, proc sets he only constant around here is someone is always complaining.

One of the posters already hit on the biggest issue going and it's time to kill.

Get the incoming age and outgoingvheaking ratios right and you will just have to find something new to add the list to complain about.

The-Baconator

coolermh wrote: »

In not saying I like the proc-build stuff. But I have never been 1 shotted by this stuff. If you actually get 1 shotted by anything your a terrible player.

Just because a single proc\set of procs doesn't "one shot you" every single time doesn't discount the fact that the proc meta is literally the worst PvP meta we have ever experienced (since console launch). Also on your "good players don't get one-shot" conclusion: https://www.youtube.com/user/ChannelTribes

Lava_Croft

Dev wrote: »

Why is it that every time someone has a different opinion, they are suddenly a troll?
If your not into PVP, then your a potato...


Is the purpose of this forum only for those who agree with you?

The original post in this thread is about nerfing the proc sets. I personally am tired of PVP players crying for nerfs that bleed into the other areas of the game.

The responses here show the common thinking whereas 'PVE is easy, you dont need burst because we say you dont', and all the changes were better...

Should we give thanks to the PVP players for ensuring that we can never have content that doesn't meet their approval?

Nobody called anyone a potato for not being into PvP.

And eh, wasn't it about how PvP got PvE ruined? What happened to that?

a1i3nz

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
You guys hear this type of stuff every patch, but this time it's pretty obvious that your pvp devs screwed the whole thing up. Can we ever hear from Wrobel? Does he even exist or is he an imaginary corporate scapegoat?

You guys fixed most the lag. Balance was the closest to fair since launch! Wtf made you create these dumb sets?! Are you just boosting crappy players to keep subs or what?

And holy crap you can't pvp 5 minutes now without getting toasted by a 25k eye of flame! Wtffffff zerg hell out here

nosourcenopath

a1i3n0ct0pu5 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
You guys hear this type of stuff every patch, but this time it's pretty obvious that your pvp devs screwed the whole thing up. Can we ever hear from Wrobel? Does he even exist or is he an imaginary corporate scapegoat?

You guys fixed most the lag. Balance was the closest to fair since launch! Wtf made you create these dumb sets?! Are you just boosting crappy players to keep subs or what?

And holy crap you can't pvp 5 minutes now without getting toasted by a 25k eye of flame! Wtffffff zerg hell out here

yeah this is nuts. ZoS nees to respond to our concerns. PVP has jumped the shark and we get silence from the devs. At least post a note telling us you're not going to fix it and we're screwed so I can take my money elsewhere.