ZOS are you trying to remove magicka builds or did you make a mistake?

SanTii.92 · August 2016

Alcast wrote: »

THE ONLY REASON why stamina does more damage is due to Maelstrom Dagger/Axe. Without those the dps would be almost identical.

Well that's pretty much what we are talking about, isn't it

Troneon · August 2016

I always hated stamina builds, I don't like how break free and dodging use the same resource as your skills....it's stupid.

Magicka do need more options and scale the same as weapon power, weapon power can get way higher numbers right now.

Lord_Eomer · August 2016

Alcast wrote: »

Magicka and Stamina both has its uses. Not always is stamina a better choice for example in trials. Have fun doing a Hardmoe of AA or MoL with only stamboy. You gonna have A BAD time.

THE ONLY REASON why stamina does more damage is due to Maelstrom Dagger/Axe. Without those the dps would be almost identical.

Major reason is weapon skills line and class Abilities getting so much buffed with 5k WP + Viper Set (simply amazing) + Velidreth (new set)

TheHsN · August 2016

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Magicka have been top dps for 2 years, while stamina have been for a few months.

For magicka sustain, you can go 7 light armor instead of meta 5-1-1, and you can have both elemental drain and siphon its called? those stack with eachother. Wormcult is also very common for healers to have.

Have you tried necropotence combined with master inferno cp160, which also works with nightblade clones.

Have you tried sorc with 5 elegant?

Have you tried the new sun set on dk?

Your welcome

make a magicka build and PLSSSS try those thing u say.. if u play and enjoy only one week ...i will do what u want:D...

TheHsN · August 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@Wrobel

Hi,

I hope u are not mad that i Tugged you... But im your player that plays this game since beta and make payments...

Just i think that i may have little rights to have a little information .. Not just me all players here i thing have that right...
So what im trying to say is...

-Are u aware or read this thread
-Are u have any plans for it
-And if you are aware can u PLS TELL that yes we are here and hear what u say we listen U...

Thank you.

daswahnsinn · August 2016

How about we go back to the way things use to be before stamina was used as a resource. Let's just use it for blocking and dodge rolling. This would make things easier - 40+K DPS MagDK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQk1MezUaPM

Averya_Teira · August 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

e1team wrote: »

You can argue all you want about who's OP up until you drop all your gear down to your underpants and try raw damage. If both can pull the same DPS then the balancing issue is with the gear. Which is not an issue in my opinion.

I'll pay you 1k gold for every second of a video showing me a magicka class pulling 45k dps in a single target fight. Hell I'll praise your name to the heavens if you can find a video showing a magicka class pulling 50k+. Until then better to be silent then act on information you clearly don't have.

That.... Has nothing to do at all with what he was saying. You're super agressive, calm down lol...

He's saying someone needs to make a video with all stamina and magicka dps classes with NO gear and see if there are huge gaps. If not, it's an itemization issue.

Alcast · August 2016

sAnn92 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

THE ONLY REASON why stamina does more damage is due to Maelstrom Dagger/Axe. Without those the dps would be almost identical.

Well that's pretty much what we are talking about, isn't it

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Magicka and Stamina both has its uses. Not always is stamina a better choice for example in trials. Have fun doing a Hardmoe of AA or MoL with only stamboy. You gonna have A BAD time.

THE ONLY REASON why stamina does more damage is due to Maelstrom Dagger/Axe. Without those the dps would be almost identical.

Major reason is weapon skills line and class Abilities getting so much buffed with 5k WP + Viper Set (simply amazing) + Velidreth (new set)

The reason why it does not get nerfed is because it is not affecting PVP that much...... ><

TheHsN · August 2016

daswahnsinn wrote: »

How about we go back to the way things use to be before stamina was used as a resource. Let's just use it for blocking and dodge rolling. This would make things easier - 40+K DPS MagDK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQk1MezUaPM

Yes it was .. Stamina had to take buff...
But what know 1 year stamina take buffs 1 year magicka ??? thats is right to do??

NO.... it should be all balanced ... there is no revenge here...

JUST ZOS should give their mind and time moreeeee to crate a real balance .. i dont want stamina more stronger or magicka ...

i want to have a fair FIGHT...:)

idk · August 2016

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Doubt you will see any answer, not one that you're looking for, at least.

Especially since the question is loaded.

Additionally, OPs CP info seems to be based on limited info, the sorc it seems. I run a full dot magika build which is normal for a Templar and run 3 dots on my magblade though FP is my spam. Sorc runs 2 dots and the magDK is moslty dots.

Armitas · August 2016

Averya_Teira wrote: »

The short answer is:

The devs working on classes and general balance have no clue what they are doing.

This. They really have no idea what they are doing. They are so far behind player understanding and experience of the game that they over shoot a goal and don't realize it for a year while they continue to push in the same direction. The combat lead doesn't engage the community and didn't even have a forum account till awhile ago.

Case in point people were permarolling, people were complaining about it and they just added well fitted to the game, and took block cost off heavy armor. lol. Now I run out of magicka trying to hit someone permarolling even though they have a successive dodge roll cost increase. One stamroller I talked to said he could dodge roll 17x consecutively and not even built for it. I am convinced their design decisions are based on discussion meetings that begin with "Wouldn't it be cool if...". They certainly are not basing it on any current realities.

So we have a PvP Stamina Class, with best burst, best defense, best sustain, best healing outside of BOL, snare immunity, root immunity, run speed, biggest aoe snare, 20% dodge miss, perma dodge roll, I-frames for every dodge, easy access to heal debuffs with no animation, and more armor than light armor. What are you thinking ZOS?

"Wouldn't it be cool if we could give a shark super intelligence then put it's brain into a robot body capable of warfare on land air and sea?" Wow great idea, everyone loves sharks and robots, lets do that because that would be cool."

TheHsN · August 2016

PLS... Magicka has 2 years buff and now Stamina is going to... What isnt that a BALANCE???!!!

:):)

Foxic · August 2016

While I agree stam is a bit too strong right now. Your thinking that magicka builds can only do 35K is off

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g94CLvOuNmI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C9t-tG0NiEc

timidobserver · August 2016

Runefang wrote: »

Do people really care about that difference in dps that much? Will be a magicka based dps really hamper my group playing?

The more DPS you have the less mechanics you have to deal with. The best example of this is the final boss of vMoL.

Foxic · August 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Reykice wrote: »

Right now stamina builds are doing 50k+ dps in trials with magicka at about 35k. The imbalance is so big i expected somebody to notice and redo things but i see no mention of this from you.

There is also the sustain issue, stamina has redguards, has 20% cost reduction on EVERY weapon while magicka has none of that so most magicka builds can`t sustain.

Is this intended? In most games people rage at a 10% difference in max dps, i get that you can`t make it perfectly equal but its beyond senseless right now. Stamina builds have more armor, more mobility, more sustain, more dps. What is the design logic behind this?

The CP tree also favors stamina as Thaumaturge increases dot damage and basically most of the max stamina dps build is made of dots. Rapid Strikes, Rearming Trap, Rending Slashes, Poison Injection, Dawnbreaker. All are buffed by the Vet Maelstrom Weapons too adding 3k Weapon Damage.

Magicka has none of that, their main spells, Funnel Health, Force Pulse, Crystal Frag, Whip get no bonus from Thaumaturge and no way to buff them via other means like Vet Maelstrom Weapons.

On top of that you made Rapid Strikes 0.6 seconds from 1.1 seconds channel its now the new super duper stamina filler. Why not change Force Pulse too or destro staff? Dual Wield has passives like "more damage under 20%, more weapon damage, 20% cost reduction and a pick between 10% crit, a very nice dot, 5% damage or armor penetration as a last passive".

Destro Staff has much weaker passives and Destro abilities with the exception of wall of elements(that was recently buffed) are also much weaker.

So i have to ask, was it a mistake that you will fix or are you slowly just keeping magicka for healing and you only want stamina to handle damage?

As a possible solution: revamp destro, make it good again, every magicka build uses it so it will bump everyone in damage. Either make Thaumaturge no longer affect every possible skill in some builds especially channels or just add a new Star that buffs "non dot" damage abilities so both will have 2 stars buffing the damage not like now where one has 1 star and the other 2.

Fix sustain somehow, add destro passive with 20% cost reduction for a start or just tweak the more costly spells.

If you agree please keep bumping this thread until we get some kind of answer!

I can't give tou an agree, it's just too whiny. Also they are implementing some new foods that are susposed to greatly aid in sustain.

My honest guess is they have plans for magica, we'll have to probably wait until the next eso-live to find out what though. FWIW, magica nb can easilly pull 50k dps. Also, the whole 50k dps this is hugelt exaggerated. not many players can do a 50k bloodspawn, these numbers are heing done in extremely well coordinated groups:

tank running alkosh/tava/bloodspawn, blowihg warhorn.

1x healer running twilight for minor force, other healer running spc/aether, using combat prayer. Then, even then, you need to be very good at your rotation/have a great lag/bug free connection.

When you stop to consider <1% of players are pulling these numbers under tight circumstance, big whoop.

Please do show us that 50K magblade dps on the manti or serpent. If it is on a short fight then it doesn't matter

KisoValley · August 2016

Wahh magicka don't pull the same dps as stamina for the last 2 months better cry on the forums

I love it lmfao

Robbmrp · August 2016

Averya_Teira wrote: »

The short answer is:

The devs working on classes and general balance have no clue what they are doing.

At least you can't stamina heal PvE content.... Magicka still has that... Lol.

I hope your not talking about the so called "Smart Healing" because somethings terribly wrong with it. When I can be in Grahtwood and my Mutagen hits two people at full health while I'm at 1/3 health means it it isn't working at all! No magicka heal unless it's directly underneath you will heal the caster directly it seems. At least with Vigor, there's a morph to guarantee you a heal. You can only do that with Grand Healing from the Resto line and have to cast it multiple times to Vigor's 1 cast.

clocksstoppe · August 2016

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Have you tried the new sun set on dk?

Game is so dead I can't find anyone who does Hel Ra so the answer to this question will always be "no".

Kas · August 2016

1. In a setting (raidbuffs, etc) where stam builds do 50k, magicka builds should at least hit 40 as well.
2. The difference is only so extreme wehn considering stamina dks with msa weapons (imho because those weapons are just crazy, especially their synergy - not further need for high wd - with TBS) and DK's benefit the most from it
3. Stamina builds require to be meele. Afaik (PvE is not my main topic of interest but I do trials), range DDs are so useful you could say they're a must.
4. Clearing trash without absurd amounts of HP is still done best by shooting star

Izaki · August 2016

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Magicka have been top dps for 2 years, while stamina have been for a few months.

For magicka sustain, you can go 7 light armor instead of meta 5-1-1, and you can have both elemental drain and siphon its called? those stack with eachother. Wormcult is also very common for healers to have.

Have you tried necropotence combined with master inferno cp160, which also works with nightblade clones.

Have you tried sorc with 5 elegant?

Have you tried the new sun set on dk?

Your welcome

Yep that sorc with 5 elegance. So you're pulling 45k DPS for around 1 minute. And then you go back down to 35k DPS. In trials overload is useless, because fights last way to long.

Yep that 7 light armor. But are you willing to sacrifice 6% magicka and health? Both of which help survivability and damage.
Yep healers run those buffs. Have you tried sustaining Molag Kena? My guess is you haven't. Have you tried on a stam build? You could do it. Why? Those shards and repentance are amazing right? Worm Cult? Yeah if 2 healers run it is total 10% reduction. Remember Kena? Of course you do, its what every magicka DPS should use in order to achieve high DPS. Thats 39% cost increase (its bugged).

Yeah... So why on earth any sane person would use the Master Inferno staff? Destructive reach is THE worst skill in the destro skill line (which is already bad, right?) That 1k magicka is easily overrun by the Spell Damage enchant.

Okay. Finally, you're telling us to use sets. So according to you a class can only be good when its relying on a particular set. Riiiiiiight, you know what? How about you stop? How about you admit the fact that 15k DPS difference between a magicka and a stamina build is a little too high?

If you know what it feels like to be the underdog build, then you'd know what others feel like. You've seen how magicka was better than stamina at some point. And you know what its like to ask ZOS to balance things. So is this some form of revenge or something? How can you just stay there and not help others who are in the same situation as you were back in the day?

I'm glad you guys like your stamina toons. I love mine too. But seriously? If there ain't no balance the game becomes a struggle and then its not even fun anymore. Cause its a game remember? @OrphanHelgen

Qbiken · August 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Next update I want mage guild skills buffed and reworked to accommodate what was done too fighters guild line.

To be honest, th fighters guild rework was horrible IMO (nice for staminabuilds but RIP extra dmg do deadra as a magicka dps). I agree on mages guild rework tho, not sure how but a some different suggestions on changes would be nice to read.

TheHsN · August 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Magicka have been top dps for 2 years, while stamina have been for a few months.

For magicka sustain, you can go 7 light armor instead of meta 5-1-1, and you can have both elemental drain and siphon its called? those stack with eachother. Wormcult is also very common for healers to have.

Have you tried necropotence combined with master inferno cp160, which also works with nightblade clones.

Have you tried sorc with 5 elegant?

Have you tried the new sun set on dk?

Your welcome

Yep that sorc with 5 elegance. So you're pulling 45k DPS for around 1 minute. And then you go back down to 35k DPS. In trials overload is useless, because fights last way to long.

Yep that 7 light armor. But are you willing to sacrifice 6% magicka and health? Both of which help survivability and damage.
Yep healers run those buffs. Have you tried sustaining Molag Kena? My guess is you haven't. Have you tried on a stam build? You could do it. Why? Those shards and repentance are amazing right? Worm Cult? Yeah if 2 healers run it is total 10% reduction. Remember Kena? Of course you do, its what every magicka DPS should use in order to achieve high DPS. Thats 39% cost increase (its bugged).

Yeah... So why on earth any sane person would use the Master Inferno staff? Destructive reach is THE worst skill in the destro skill line (which is already bad, right?) That 1k magicka is easily overrun by the Spell Damage enchant.

Okay. Finally, you're telling us to use sets. So according to you a class can only be good when its relying on a particular set. Riiiiiiight, you know what? How about you stop? How about you admit the fact that 15k DPS difference between a magicka and a stamina build is a little too high?

If you know what it feels like to be the underdog build, then you'd know what others feel like. You've seen how magicka was better than stamina at some point. And you know what its like to ask ZOS to balance things. So is this some form of revenge or something? How can you just stay there and not help others who are in the same situation as you were back in the day?

I'm glad you guys like your stamina toons. I love mine too. But seriously? If there ain't no balance the game becomes a struggle and then its not even fun anymore. Cause its a game remember? @OrphanHelgen

You told PERFECTLY....100% im with you ...

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@Wrobel

Qbiken · August 2016

Alcast wrote: »

Magicka and Stamina both has its uses. Not always is stamina a better choice for example in trials. Have fun doing a Hardmoe of AA or MoL with only stamboy. You gonna have A BAD time.

THE ONLY REASON why stamina does more damage is due to Maelstrom Dagger/Axe. Without those the dps would be almost identical.

Well, some of the changes to fighters guild skill line did boost some stamina builds imo. But you´re absolutely correct regarding the impact Maelstrom weapons have on stambuilds.

Clarkieson · August 2016

Reykice wrote: »

Right now stamina builds are doing 50k+ dps in trials with magicka at about 35k. The imbalance is so big i expected somebody to notice and redo things but i see no mention of this from you.

There is also the sustain issue, stamina has redguards, has 20% cost reduction on EVERY weapon while magicka has none of that so most magicka builds can`t sustain.

Is this intended? In most games people rage at a 10% difference in max dps, i get that you can`t make it perfectly equal but its beyond senseless right now. Stamina builds have more armor, more mobility, more sustain, more dps. What is the design logic behind this?

The CP tree also favors stamina as Thaumaturge increases dot damage and basically most of the max stamina dps build is made of dots. Rapid Strikes, Rearming Trap, Rending Slashes, Poison Injection, Dawnbreaker. All are buffed by the Vet Maelstrom Weapons too adding 3k Weapon Damage.

Magicka has none of that, their main spells, Funnel Health, Force Pulse, Crystal Frag, Whip get no bonus from Thaumaturge and no way to buff them via other means like Vet Maelstrom Weapons.

On top of that you made Rapid Strikes 0.6 seconds from 1.1 seconds channel its now the new super duper stamina filler. Why not change Force Pulse too or destro staff? Dual Wield has passives like "more damage under 20%, more weapon damage, 20% cost reduction and a pick between 10% crit, a very nice dot, 5% damage or armor penetration as a last passive".

Destro Staff has much weaker passives and Destro abilities with the exception of wall of elements(that was recently buffed) are also much weaker.

So i have to ask, was it a mistake that you will fix or are you slowly just keeping magicka for healing and you only want stamina to handle damage?

As a possible solution: revamp destro, make it good again, every magicka build uses it so it will bump everyone in damage. Either make Thaumaturge no longer affect every possible skill in some builds especially channels or just add a new Star that buffs "non dot" damage abilities so both will have 2 stars buffing the damage not like now where one has 1 star and the other 2.

Fix sustain somehow, add destro passive with 20% cost reduction for a start or just tweak the more costly spells.

If you agree please keep bumping this thread until we get some kind of answer!

NERF THE SORC! sorcs are bad m’kay? destro staves are bad m’kay? Shields are bad m’kay? just a dirty crystal frag spamming junkie m’kay?

its a good job cc immunity is broken or sorcs would be able to break free of crowd control more than once

NERF THE SORC m’kay?

waterfairy · August 2016

Reykice wrote: »

Stam DK: https://youtu.be/K9G3G3txKQs - 51k

Why is his ability bar flashing, is that macro in action? That might be part of the reason he's pulling those numbers.

Foxic · August 2016

Vigarr wrote: »

Reykice wrote: »

Stam DK: https://youtu.be/K9G3G3txKQs - 51k

Why is his ability bar flashing, is that macro in action? That might be part of the reason he's pulling those numbers.

No that is lui showing when your global cool down is done. There is a significant amount of misinformation regarding macros in eso. There is a 1 second global cool down on skills that can not be ignored by the use of animation cancelling or macroing. Pve rotations are not hard and any experienced player can perform their rotation just as well as a macro can

Joy_Division · August 2016

My Sanctum runs now.

Raid leader: "Who here is ranged DPS?"

Group chat: *crickets*

Me: It's K, I'll slot Dark Flare and do 1/3 the DPS others are doing. I'm having fun ... really ... totally ... yeah, my job will just be to dodge the Matikora's spears ... with a resource that I hardly have any of.

Armitas · August 2016

Out of date, but still my favorite eso video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbICmSleqPs

Francescolg · August 2016

@Reykice
I don't have the time to read all answers to your thread, so pardon!

To answer you: ZOS wants to focus on the "jump & run aspect" of ESO, that is what stamina classes are made for: Roll Dodge, Sprint, Block, bash-interrupt, cc-break, weapon attack, etc. ALL THESE FUNTIONS are in the focus for ESO to distinguish ESO from other MMORPGs and to make it unique! So, lets call this stamina-functions the very basic base of the game, the way ESO works, the way they want you to do pvp! This way and no other!

From this follows: ZOS does not want you to play "classic" magicka-classes, that don't like to roll/sprint/block/bash-interrupt/weapon attack. They want you, errr, I mean THEY FORCE YOU TO USE this stamina-functions in PvP/PvE. If you don't want to play ESO THIS WAY, if you want to just stand in the back and push your skill, your are an enemy

You are against the "way they want you to play ESO". This is why stamina has the better equipment, skills, etc. This is why many, and I mean really many strong/competent players dropped within the first few months after release of ESO

(my post contains some irony and has not to be taken too seriously!)

Van_0S · August 2016

What ZOS should do is nerf dawnbreaker ! Its OP like hell for all stamina builds. I get 1 shotted by a NB ganker ( can't heal at that time, due to the dot damage and stun which is instant.)

Edit: I just want to see wrobel get nuked by it

( that is, if he ever plays this game)