Do you think ZOS should eliminate animation cancelling?

aLi3nZ · February 2016

No let it stay

Animation cancelling was nerfed in the Theives guild patch. Combat is a little bit more clunky and slow now.

All I know how to do is light attack and heavy attack weave with destro staves and spells. How do you use the block/bash cancelling? What sourcs have some combos for me?

Lookstowindwards · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

In any other big MMO it takes skill to know _when_ to fire a skill proper so you dont have to cancel it and lose damage.

In any other MMO it takes skill to know _when_ at the near end of an animation you can start the next skill so you weave them correctly without losing damage of the first skill by canceling it.

In any other MMO a makro will either make your toon do all the skills in it one after another within their casting time, or will allow you to consolidate your buttons by firing the one not on cooldown.

In ESO Zenimax wants to tell us that clicking one button on a keyboard or mouse and thus starting all your skills at almost once, or rolling over your keyboard is skill. Wow, just wow.

Remove it and fix your code.

vakieh · February 2016

No let it stay

That sort of combat timing would reeeeaaalllly punish anyone with a less than stellar latency (which due to the speed of light + the size of the world literally can't be fixed).

Being able to queue up a skill and know it's going to fire at the right time is a really good thing.

teladoy · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

I would say yes, because animation cancelling has many problems and positive, and negative things also.

1. Not all skills can be used with any other skill and cancel the animation. This would be like a disadvantage for some builds.
2. It breaks the real time battle time. To make battles more realistics, it is logical, that every skill needs some time between to be abble to cast the next one, even skills that are instant.
3. Not all instant skills have the same animation time... this is a huge problem. They should think on this.

and etc etc etc

Destruent · February 2016

No let it stay

teladoy wrote: »

I would say yes, because animation cancelling has many problems and positive, and negative things also.

1. Not all skills can be used with any other skill and cancel the animation. This would be like a disadvantage for some builds.
2. It breaks the real time battle time. To make battles more realistics, it is logical, that every skill needs some time between to be abble to cast the next one, even skills that are instant.
3. Not all instant skills have the same animation time... this is a huge problem. They should think on this.

and etc etc etc

1. ALL Skills can be animation cancelled, you just need to time it correctly.
2. This is called general cooldown (GCD), but there are different cooldowns for light/heavy attacks, Skills and bash. You cannot bypass them.
3. Animation time on different instant-skills doesn't matter because you can blockcancel them.

People are mostly doing AC by light/heavy attack-->Skill-cancelling. this can be done with ALL skills. It's just a bit different to pull off for different skills.
People compain about simple button mashing due to animation cancelling. but if you remove it completely people will keep on button mashing. But instead of mashing auto attack/Skill-button they will ONLY mash the skill button, bc it does more dmg than the auto attacks. Doesn't sound like, you need more skill for it...in fact it's less skill!
Light/heavy-attacks are only viable in combat (dps-rotation) bc of cancelling them.

Blo0dstorm · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

dday3six wrote: »

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

This isn't skyrim people, I don't care how ugly animation canceling looks.This is an MMO and animation canceling adds a layer of skill to the game. It separates nubs from the pros. And if you want to learn how to do it look it up on youtube. And then practice it... Its not even hard
L2P

This isn't about L2P. Sure, there is a bit of that involved to get AC working for you. However, there is no SKILL involved.

Seriously, picking which attack type to use and if picking wrong, the decision to cancel it or just let it go and make a better choice with the next attack or counter, now that's something to do with skill.
Choosing your set-up of abilities and how to use them to the max (always taking into account your passives and what your opponent is and has been using, together with his/her class and abilities passive: There you have what distinguishes a pro from a casual.

Using skill X that completely nullifies whatever by some (unbreakable or nearly so) CC (stun, immobilze, snare) so you can do Y and Z by animation canceling before anyone can react, counter, ie. actually fight.
Rinse and repeat. There is no skill involved in that.

That sequence is so short and - due to the inability to counter - nearly fail safe.
You could just as well macro it, it's so damned easy.

Point is: Without animation cancelling you would see (pun intended) a lot more skill in the game.

A lot of things would become harder (for those relying on animation cancelling), but for the casuals, it would be actually the same (if not easier). For the skilled players, they will learn and adept in no time.

Only those relying on AC to get that extra advantage (and the easy mode in PvP by extra burst damage with the added stun to ensure no counter play happens) will have a hard time. Learn to adept.

In short: PvP would become much better without AC. PvE would be a lot more interesting / challenging. The game would be better for it in either case.

Without animation canceling players wouldn't be able to dodge, block, or sprint reactively. Even buff dismounting to be buffed before engaging would not be possible. PVP would not be better with sluggish and unresponsive combat. It would be rather unplayable having lost of semblance of modern standards.

Imagine having to wait for the forward motion of your character's sprint to stop before being able to use any other actions. Quite literally having to cease interaction with the input and wait a moment before inputing another action. It's animation canceling that allows actions to interrupt one another, creating a seamless flow. Animation canceling has been the cornerstone motion fluidity in videos games for a very long time. Clearly there's a great deal of misunderstanding of this fact among ESO players.

You don't actually want animation canceling removed. You want the priority system altered in a way that actions will not have an effect (example: attacks would not deal damage) unless the animation is allowed to play out in full.

Frankly, it's really hard to take the anti-AC crowd seriously when they don't know enough to make the above stated distinction.

Most of the 'remove animation cancelling' crowd look like they don't actually want the animation cancelling removed but rather the 'full damage being applied' removed.
Let's say in a fight, you start casting a skill when your opponent casts one of these red circles upon you.
It's fine to stop casting and dodge out of the red circle.
Staying there motionless, waiting for your cast to complete and then dodging would look rather dumb.
What isn't fine is that skill you have just cancelled still landing damage on your opponent.

Destruent · February 2016

No let it stay

Blo0dstorm wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

This isn't skyrim people, I don't care how ugly animation canceling looks.This is an MMO and animation canceling adds a layer of skill to the game. It separates nubs from the pros. And if you want to learn how to do it look it up on youtube. And then practice it... Its not even hard
L2P

This isn't about L2P. Sure, there is a bit of that involved to get AC working for you. However, there is no SKILL involved.

Seriously, picking which attack type to use and if picking wrong, the decision to cancel it or just let it go and make a better choice with the next attack or counter, now that's something to do with skill.
Choosing your set-up of abilities and how to use them to the max (always taking into account your passives and what your opponent is and has been using, together with his/her class and abilities passive: There you have what distinguishes a pro from a casual.

Using skill X that completely nullifies whatever by some (unbreakable or nearly so) CC (stun, immobilze, snare) so you can do Y and Z by animation canceling before anyone can react, counter, ie. actually fight.
Rinse and repeat. There is no skill involved in that.

That sequence is so short and - due to the inability to counter - nearly fail safe.
You could just as well macro it, it's so damned easy.

Point is: Without animation cancelling you would see (pun intended) a lot more skill in the game.

A lot of things would become harder (for those relying on animation cancelling), but for the casuals, it would be actually the same (if not easier). For the skilled players, they will learn and adept in no time.

Only those relying on AC to get that extra advantage (and the easy mode in PvP by extra burst damage with the added stun to ensure no counter play happens) will have a hard time. Learn to adept.

In short: PvP would become much better without AC. PvE would be a lot more interesting / challenging. The game would be better for it in either case.

Without animation canceling players wouldn't be able to dodge, block, or sprint reactively. Even buff dismounting to be buffed before engaging would not be possible. PVP would not be better with sluggish and unresponsive combat. It would be rather unplayable having lost of semblance of modern standards.

Imagine having to wait for the forward motion of your character's sprint to stop before being able to use any other actions. Quite literally having to cease interaction with the input and wait a moment before inputing another action. It's animation canceling that allows actions to interrupt one another, creating a seamless flow. Animation canceling has been the cornerstone motion fluidity in videos games for a very long time. Clearly there's a great deal of misunderstanding of this fact among ESO players.

You don't actually want animation canceling removed. You want the priority system altered in a way that actions will not have an effect (example: attacks would not deal damage) unless the animation is allowed to play out in full.

Frankly, it's really hard to take the anti-AC crowd seriously when they don't know enough to make the above stated distinction.

Most of the 'remove animation cancelling' crowd look like they don't actually want the animation cancelling removed but rather the 'full damage being applied' removed.
Let's say in a fight, you start casting a skill when your opponent casts one of these red circles upon you.
It's fine to stop casting and dodge out of the red circle.
Staying there motionless, waiting for your cast to complete and then dodging would look rather dumb.
What isn't fine is that skill you have just cancelled still landing damage on your opponent.

Instant-casts will hit, SKills with cast time won't hit (if you dodge before it hits ofc), Channels will hit partially.

Flak · February 2016

No let it stay

Animation Canceling is the best feature in this game because it's a matter of skill apart from having best gear.
However there are many exploits using it such as Wrecking Blow and NB Double-Stun, that we have to get rid of ofc.
I think we're on a good way with the incoming changes.

Mikatrick_NL · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

I dont like the idea that animation cancelling should be part of the game. Lag and animation cancelling should say enough..

aLi3nZ · February 2016

No let it stay

Blo0dstorm wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

This isn't skyrim people, I don't care how ugly animation canceling looks.This is an MMO and animation canceling adds a layer of skill to the game. It separates nubs from the pros. And if you want to learn how to do it look it up on youtube. And then practice it... Its not even hard
L2P

This isn't about L2P. Sure, there is a bit of that involved to get AC working for you. However, there is no SKILL involved.

Seriously, picking which attack type to use and if picking wrong, the decision to cancel it or just let it go and make a better choice with the next attack or counter, now that's something to do with skill.
Choosing your set-up of abilities and how to use them to the max (always taking into account your passives and what your opponent is and has been using, together with his/her class and abilities passive: There you have what distinguishes a pro from a casual.

Using skill X that completely nullifies whatever by some (unbreakable or nearly so) CC (stun, immobilze, snare) so you can do Y and Z by animation canceling before anyone can react, counter, ie. actually fight.
Rinse and repeat. There is no skill involved in that.

That sequence is so short and - due to the inability to counter - nearly fail safe.
You could just as well macro it, it's so damned easy.

Point is: Without animation cancelling you would see (pun intended) a lot more skill in the game.

A lot of things would become harder (for those relying on animation cancelling), but for the casuals, it would be actually the same (if not easier). For the skilled players, they will learn and adept in no time.

Only those relying on AC to get that extra advantage (and the easy mode in PvP by extra burst damage with the added stun to ensure no counter play happens) will have a hard time. Learn to adept.

In short: PvP would become much better without AC. PvE would be a lot more interesting / challenging. The game would be better for it in either case.

Without animation canceling players wouldn't be able to dodge, block, or sprint reactively. Even buff dismounting to be buffed before engaging would not be possible. PVP would not be better with sluggish and unresponsive combat. It would be rather unplayable having lost of semblance of modern standards.

Imagine having to wait for the forward motion of your character's sprint to stop before being able to use any other actions. Quite literally having to cease interaction with the input and wait a moment before inputing another action. It's animation canceling that allows actions to interrupt one another, creating a seamless flow. Animation canceling has been the cornerstone motion fluidity in videos games for a very long time. Clearly there's a great deal of misunderstanding of this fact among ESO players.

You don't actually want animation canceling removed. You want the priority system altered in a way that actions will not have an effect (example: attacks would not deal damage) unless the animation is allowed to play out in full.

Frankly, it's really hard to take the anti-AC crowd seriously when they don't know enough to make the above stated distinction.

Most of the 'remove animation cancelling' crowd look like they don't actually want the animation cancelling removed but rather the 'full damage being applied' removed.
Let's say in a fight, you start casting a skill when your opponent casts one of these red circles upon you.
It's fine to stop casting and dodge out of the red circle.
Staying there motionless, waiting for your cast to complete and then dodging would look rather dumb.
What isn't fine is that skill you have just cancelled still landing damage on your opponent.

I noticed I did that with dawnbreaker a couple times accidently. Would suck for that to go to waste considering it's an ulti.

Blo0dstorm · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

Flak wrote: »

Animation Canceling is the best feature in this game because it's a matter of skill apart from having best gear.
However there are many exploits using it such as Wrecking Blow and NB Double-Stun, that we have to get rid of ofc.
I think we're on a good way with the incoming changes.

Where can you read/listen to that list of incoming changes?
A link would be very much appreciated

Asmael · February 2016

If you think AC is just about adding in a light attack before abilities, and a bash after, you know nothing of AC.

If you think you can fire multiple abilities in less than 1 second thanks to AC, you know nothing of AC.

If you think AC is responsible for lag, get out of Lagzura and Truelag and go to BwB or some empty buff campaign.

The strict minimum to do when talking about something is to at least understand the matter at hand...

sadownik · February 2016

Blo0dstorm wrote: »

Flak wrote: »

Animation Canceling is the best feature in this game because it's a matter of skill apart from having best gear.
However there are many exploits using it such as Wrecking Blow and NB Double-Stun, that we have to get rid of ofc.
I think we're on a good way with the incoming changes.

Where can you read/listen to that list of incoming changes?
A link would be very much appreciated

They tried to implement some changes, as expected the changes didnt fix anything, in fact broke another few things so Z rolled them back and promised to break some more stuff soon (but no ETA).

Blo0dstorm · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

sadownik wrote: »

Blo0dstorm wrote: »

Flak wrote: »

Animation Canceling is the best feature in this game because it's a matter of skill apart from having best gear.
However there are many exploits using it such as Wrecking Blow and NB Double-Stun, that we have to get rid of ofc.
I think we're on a good way with the incoming changes.

Where can you read/listen to that list of incoming changes?
A link would be very much appreciated

They tried to implement some changes, as expected the changes didnt fix anything, in fact broke another few things so Z rolled them back and promised to break some more stuff soon (but no ETA).

this actually was calling for an 'awesome' x:D

KingDuncanVII · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

I think it should go, despite the fact that I utilize it as well.

HOWEVER, not many people know about animation canceling. While it shows skill against other players that know about it, it's just an unfair advantage over others in the game that don't know about it. It's not like ESO advertises animation canceling.

If we want more people getting into PvP, I don't want their first impression to be getting obliterated in a matter of three seconds if they only saw the person do one attack. It's really off-putting in the eyes of those who are just starting out.

And I don't necessarily think it shows skill to cancel animation. I think it just shows impatience. I believe skill is being able to kill quickly with the basic tools you are given to play the game. Animation canceling is this hidden feature that you have to kind of hear about or search.

Hazethemadman · February 2016

No let it stay

Here we go. I'm certain that this is a huge issue in PvP, but it has a lot of practical applications in PvE.

If people end up single-handedly getting rid of the animation canceling then be prepared to face the rage of all of the people in PvE who use it in a "weave" to maximize dps.

The PvP and PvE communities really need to remember that each other exists. Posts made in a rage can have serious implications for people enjoying other content (not saying that is what this is).

dday3six · February 2016

No let it stay

Cherryblossom wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

bikerangelo wrote: »

As a templar; hell no.

If I get stuck in one of my endless channels and can't cancel it with a block, I'd die a bunch more than I do already. This doesn't just serve to do more dps in the game, it helps with survivability as well. Plus, my only burst combo comes from animation cancelling, and it'd be stupid easy to avoid if all of my animations followed through.
Anyone who spends five minutes in pvp will hear from someone else what animation cancelling is. It's not a knowledge requirement prior to leaving the wailing prison in order to have fun in the game, it's an added layer of difficulty to master in end game pve and pvp.
You should also earn the right to do more damage aside from gear and stats. That's how lower level players can remain competitive against higher level players, otherwise this game will turn into an even bigger damage contest where the person with the most gold wins because he can afford the better gear for the better stats.

If you don't know how to animation cancel, learn. If you don't want to, you don't have to. Don't strip the few remaining challenging mechanics left in the game.

A block cancels the effect of the current channeled skill, it's the weapon swapping without cancelling the skill at hand that is the problem and opens up for all macro cheating.

Channeled skills are in fact the only ones not affected by Animation Canceling advantages and therefore are useless in macros.

Why do people keep bringing up macros? It's not widely used because it cannot be adjusted to changing conditions. On top of that it's slower than a player actually inputing the actions manually believe it or not. Nearly all instances of players in PVP claiming that macros allowed a player to get off X skills/actions in 1s are misinterpreting the situation. All skills have a 0.9s global cool down that a user cannot bypas with marcos. What happens in these X skills in 1 sec scenarios is lag.

Actually Macro's make it much easier to animation cancel, you create a one button press for a channeled ability which starts the skill and then blocks at the right time frame to cancel in one , this is much quicker and more reliable than manually doing it, as it's consistent.
The same goes for weaving, a macro that starts a heavy attach, so Button Pressed for a set time which is then cancelled by a skill being selected.

Please don't ever say that Macro's are not a better way of doing it, the fact is macro's make animation cancelling easy and quick. You only need the skill to set up the macro to do them.

But having said that, I don't want to remove animation cancelling, without it the game would be slow an boring.

Firstly what I'm saying here is that macros will not allow players bypass the 0.9 gcd on skills. Which is true, macros cannot alter the universal functions of the game. They are only a string of inputs, programmed to be bound to a single input. They still have to operate within the confines of the game it's self.

As to your point. No they really don't. Some players keep saying that, but they never actually provide any evidence to support their case. A person mentions that by using macros the ability to react dynamically is taken away, and the macros conspiracy theorist ignore it. Mention that the timing is different for different skills, and that latency can change it further, they ignore it. Ask for video proof of actual combat, like say a VMSA run were the user is utilizing macros, and all they say is that they believe most of the top players use macros all the time. So, I'm going to state that macros don't make it easier because no one will every provide proof that it does.

xellink · February 2016

No let it stay

KingDuncanVII wrote: »

I think it should go, despite the fact that I utilize it as well.

HOWEVER, not many people know about animation canceling. While it shows skill against other players that know about it, it's just an unfair advantage over others in the game that don't know about it. It's not like ESO advertises animation canceling.

If we want more people getting into PvP, I don't want their first impression to be getting obliterated in a matter of three seconds if they only saw the person do one attack. It's really off-putting in the eyes of those who are just starting out.

And I don't necessarily think it shows skill to cancel animation. I think it just shows impatience. I believe skill is being able to kill quickly with the basic tools you are given to play the game. Animation canceling is this hidden feature that you have to kind of hear about or search.

add it to the tutorial

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

dday3six wrote: »

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

This isn't skyrim people, I don't care how ugly animation canceling looks.This is an MMO and animation canceling adds a layer of skill to the game. It separates nubs from the pros. And if you want to learn how to do it look it up on youtube. And then practice it... Its not even hard
L2P

This isn't about L2P. Sure, there is a bit of that involved to get AC working for you. However, there is no SKILL involved.

Seriously, picking which attack type to use and if picking wrong, the decision to cancel it or just let it go and make a better choice with the next attack or counter, now that's something to do with skill.
Choosing your set-up of abilities and how to use them to the max (always taking into account your passives and what your opponent is and has been using, together with his/her class and abilities passive: There you have what distinguishes a pro from a casual.

Using skill X that completely nullifies whatever by some (unbreakable or nearly so) CC (stun, immobilze, snare) so you can do Y and Z by animation canceling before anyone can react, counter, ie. actually fight.
Rinse and repeat. There is no skill involved in that.

That sequence is so short and - due to the inability to counter - nearly fail safe.
You could just as well macro it, it's so damned easy.

Point is: Without animation cancelling you would see (pun intended) a lot more skill in the game.

A lot of things would become harder (for those relying on animation cancelling), but for the casuals, it would be actually the same (if not easier). For the skilled players, they will learn and adept in no time.

Only those relying on AC to get that extra advantage (and the easy mode in PvP by extra burst damage with the added stun to ensure no counter play happens) will have a hard time. Learn to adept.

In short: PvP would become much better without AC. PvE would be a lot more interesting / challenging. The game would be better for it in either case.

Without animation canceling players wouldn't be able to dodge, block, or sprint reactively. Even buff dismounting to be buffed before engaging would not be possible. PVP would not be better with sluggish and unresponsive combat. It would be rather unplayable having lost of semblance of modern standards.

Imagine having to wait for the forward motion of your character's sprint to stop before being able to use any other actions. Quite literally having to cease interaction with the input and wait a moment before inputing another action. It's animation canceling that allows actions to interrupt one another, creating a seamless flow. Animation canceling has been the cornerstone motion fluidity in videos games for a very long time. Clearly there's a great deal of misunderstanding of this fact among ESO players.

You don't actually want animation canceling removed. You want the priority system altered in a way that actions will not have an effect (example: attacks would not deal damage) unless the animation is allowed to play out in full.

Frankly, it's really hard to take the anti-AC crowd seriously when they don't know enough to make the above stated distinction.

Sounds like you didn't get the point of the discussion.

It's not about not being able to cancel your action, but about cancelling an action, but that action still taking place anyway.

Your above examples are all valid, but beside the real point here. Without - the ZOS flavor of AC- you could (and should) still be able to dodge roll, block etc., what you should not be able to do is "weave " an attack, use an ability, block / dodge / weapon swap and throw an ultimate into the whole mix, all at once.

dday3six · February 2016

No let it stay

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

This isn't skyrim people, I don't care how ugly animation canceling looks.This is an MMO and animation canceling adds a layer of skill to the game. It separates nubs from the pros. And if you want to learn how to do it look it up on youtube. And then practice it... Its not even hard
L2P

This isn't about L2P. Sure, there is a bit of that involved to get AC working for you. However, there is no SKILL involved.

Seriously, picking which attack type to use and if picking wrong, the decision to cancel it or just let it go and make a better choice with the next attack or counter, now that's something to do with skill.
Choosing your set-up of abilities and how to use them to the max (always taking into account your passives and what your opponent is and has been using, together with his/her class and abilities passive: There you have what distinguishes a pro from a casual.

Using skill X that completely nullifies whatever by some (unbreakable or nearly so) CC (stun, immobilze, snare) so you can do Y and Z by animation canceling before anyone can react, counter, ie. actually fight.
Rinse and repeat. There is no skill involved in that.

That sequence is so short and - due to the inability to counter - nearly fail safe.
You could just as well macro it, it's so damned easy.

Point is: Without animation cancelling you would see (pun intended) a lot more skill in the game.

A lot of things would become harder (for those relying on animation cancelling), but for the casuals, it would be actually the same (if not easier). For the skilled players, they will learn and adept in no time.

Only those relying on AC to get that extra advantage (and the easy mode in PvP by extra burst damage with the added stun to ensure no counter play happens) will have a hard time. Learn to adept.

In short: PvP would become much better without AC. PvE would be a lot more interesting / challenging. The game would be better for it in either case.

Without animation canceling players wouldn't be able to dodge, block, or sprint reactively. Even buff dismounting to be buffed before engaging would not be possible. PVP would not be better with sluggish and unresponsive combat. It would be rather unplayable having lost of semblance of modern standards.

Imagine having to wait for the forward motion of your character's sprint to stop before being able to use any other actions. Quite literally having to cease interaction with the input and wait a moment before inputing another action. It's animation canceling that allows actions to interrupt one another, creating a seamless flow. Animation canceling has been the cornerstone motion fluidity in videos games for a very long time. Clearly there's a great deal of misunderstanding of this fact among ESO players.

You don't actually want animation canceling removed. You want the priority system altered in a way that actions will not have an effect (example: attacks would not deal damage) unless the animation is allowed to play out in full.

Frankly, it's really hard to take the anti-AC crowd seriously when they don't know enough to make the above stated distinction.

Sounds like you didn't get the point of the discussion.

It's not about not being able to cancel your action, but about cancelling an action, but that action still taking place anyway.

Your above examples are all valid, but beside the real point here. Without - the ZOS flavor of AC- you could (and should) still be able to dodge roll, block etc., what you should not be able to do is "weave " an attack, use an ability, block / dodge / weapon swap and throw an ultimate into the whole mix, all at once.

Animation canceling as it applies to ESO doesn't allow for any of those things to be done all at once. No matter how skilled a player is they're still bound by the rules programmed into the game. Skills have a 0.9s gcd on them. So players cannot perform more than one skill in that timeframe. Everything else; attack weaves, weapon swaps, dodge rolls, blocks are done in the down time of that gcd to maximize output by doubling the actions performed per second. However they can only be paired one at a time. There's no "all at once". Seeing anything else is lag. The lag of ESO, particularly in PVP is just that terrible.

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

no it's not, but guess what, if you believe otherwise, seems you ain't that skilled at it after all.

be in sneak, (for extra damage buff and stun)
get into position
charge up heavy attack
cast attack skill (preferably with a CC)
cancel animation by bash (for extra damage)
throw down dawnbreaker, as it procs right away again on cast (no delay on second damage)
use any executioner skill on target if still alive while it gets up (now that takes precious time)

sure takes 2 seconds for wind up and preparing ...
But, all damage lands in the same slice.
Instant death on the receiving end with ZERO warning.
You don't even see it coming.

Working as intended? Sure hope not!
Working anyway? Sure does!

And this is on an nearly empty campaign, dead of night with ping rate well below 100.
So you tell me that fairy tale about lag being the sole problem here?
Sorry, not buying.

rfennell_ESO · March 2016

Yes get rid of it

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

And this is on an nearly empty campaign, dead of night with ping rate well below 100.
So you tell me that fairy tale about lag being the sole problem here?
Sorry, not buying.

It's nearly all scripts and macros.

They just deny it and claim it's skill.

Is it lies make the liar or liar's tell lies?

dday3six · March 2016

No let it stay

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

no it's not, but guess what, if you believe otherwise, seems you ain't that skilled at it after all.
be in sneak, (for extra damage buff and stun)

get into position

charge up heavy attack

cast attack skill (preferably with a CC)

cancel animation by bash (for extra damage)

throw down dawnbreaker, as it procs right away again on cast (no delay on second damage)

use any executioner skill on target if still alive while it gets up (now that takes precious time)

sure takes 2 seconds for wind up and preparing ...
But, all damage lands in the same slice.
Instant death on the receiving end with ZERO warning.
You don't even see it coming.

Working as intended? Sure hope not!
Working anyway? Sure does!

And this is on an nearly empty campaign, dead of night with ping rate well below 100.
So you tell me that fairy tale about lag being the sole problem here?
Sorry, not buying.

So you're going to question my skill while presenting all that misinformation, and outlining a terrible opening. That's funny.

First off, you're talking about ganking on a stationary target. Those situations are uncommon at best. They're deadly with or without weaves and animation canceling because it's an ambush. The point is to catch the opponent unprepared. However, if players choose more wisely how, when, and where they stand still, that sort of heavy attack opener from stealth is far less likely to happen.

Also note that post TG update running either morph of Magelight will pretty much make a player immune to that sort of ambush, because the attacker would be revealed before their heavy attack winds up. At that point it's up to the potential victim to be paying attention. At present there are several ground based AOEs (Caltrops, Daedric Mines, etc.) which can be stood in during times when standing still is required that would prevent the attack from happening.

Your ping is not the only thing that matters, the other players ping is also important. Just because your connect is fast doesn't mean the other players is as well.

Furthermore the opener you suggested is sloppy and amateur. You're missing Camo Hunter, which is a guaranteed proc out of stealth. Next, you wouldn't cast CC on a target that is already stunned from an attack out of stealth. They'd already be CC'd, thus you'd be wasting an action that doesn't deal damage. Then, since the Ultimate you suggest is Dawnbreaker, and has a DOT that would be the best follow up to cancel the animation of a heavy attack opener. Doing it that way would allow the DOT longer to tick. (Note: Pre-IC Dawnbreaker of Smithing was able to be front loaded by animation canceling it. That was fixed with IC.) You'd block cancel the Dawnbreaker, but wouldn't bash cancel unless running 1H&S cause the damage would be awful compared to just using a instant cast, damage dealing skill.

What seems to happen is you have an issue with stealth gameplay in ESO, and have smashed that into an issue with animation canceling. Nothing you've described would happen in the same slice as you put it. And frankly if someone used this opener on you, you missed you chance to counter, which would have been during the wasted CC used to weave into a heavy attack.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

And this is on an nearly empty campaign, dead of night with ping rate well below 100.
So you tell me that fairy tale about lag being the sole problem here?
Sorry, not buying.

It's nearly all scripts and macros.

They just deny it and claim it's skill.

Is it lies make the liar or liar's tell lies?

Do you have proof of your claims?

DaveMoeDee · March 2016

Yes get rid of it

bikerangelo wrote: »

As a templar; hell no.

If I get stuck in one of my endless channels and can't cancel it with a block, I'd die a bunch more than I do already. This doesn't just serve to do more dps in the game, it helps with survivability as well. Plus, my only burst combo comes from animation cancelling, and it'd be stupid easy to avoid if all of my animations followed through.
Anyone who spends five minutes in pvp will hear from someone else what animation cancelling is. It's not a knowledge requirement prior to leaving the wailing prison in order to have fun in the game, it's an added layer of difficulty to master in end game pve and pvp.
You should also earn the right to do more damage aside from gear and stats. That's how lower level players can remain competitive against higher level players, otherwise this game will turn into an even bigger damage contest where the person with the most gold wins because he can afford the better gear for the better stats.

If you don't know how to animation cancel, learn. If you don't want to, you don't have to. Don't strip the few remaining challenging mechanics left in the game.

Cancelling your channel in no way needs animation cancelling. It needs action cancelling. Stop the channel, not the animation while continuing the channel. The reason animation cancelling is stupid is that it makes that the animation doesn't match what your character is doing. When people cancel, cancel the entire action, not just the animation. If it is a channel, it should do damage up until you cancel the action.

Once you cancel the action, damage should cease. If it is a skill with a long animation, that means you typically aren't connecting until the animation completes. If you abort the animation before it completes, that means you didn't make contact with the enemy and no damage should register.

DaveMoeDee · March 2016

Yes get rid of it

vakieh wrote: »

That sort of combat timing would reeeeaaalllly punish anyone with a less than stellar latency (which due to the speed of light + the size of the world literally can't be fixed).

Being able to queue up a skill and know it's going to fire at the right time is a really good thing.

This is the only real argument I recognize. The reason to keep animation cancelling is purely technical. It is a hideous pus filled wart on the nose of ESO, but animation cancelling is better than combat made impossible due to lag if that is what would result.

eserras7b16_ESO · March 2016

No let it stay

Animation canceling makes me love this game, combat feels good, you can react to what happens around you, it feels responsive and fast paced, getting animation canceling out would make me leave the game. I really think animation canceling made this game good.

acw37162 · March 2016

Other (Please explain)

I don't care either way but I played what was on test and it was game breaking bad.

When you get into the combat mechanics you get into something that touches almost every aspect of gameplay for everyone from a level 1 to VR16 Lagate and beyond.

If you touch it make sure it's done right or I and my sub and hundreds of dollars of years in crown store purchase game support are gone.

I can't stress how clunky and bad combat felt on test.

Change it if you want but it better feels like silk sheets sliding on silk sheets when your done.

Edit: if they try to just fix the blocking issue with the new animation overhaul, I will be leaving also, they need yo sound quite a bit if time working out the bugs and making it play "feel" better.

Inarre · March 2016

It will never happen even if people want it removed.

Ch4mpTW · March 2016

Yes get rid of it

riverdragon72 wrote: »

I think they eliminated animations on Azuras entirely.

^^^^^ YEP!

RabNebula · March 2016

Other (Please explain)

I voted other because I believe the combat benefits greatly from having it in as it makes the fights more intense. However I do believe they need to develop it more. Coming from the world of fighting games like Street Fighter, Tekken and Soul Calibur I have a lot of experience with melee based combat games and animation cancels. However, while those games have animation cancelling it is more like certain moves flow into others rather than cancelling the animation 1 frame in so it barely looks like it happened. So it would be better if Zenimax were to research more how fighting games work and develop the animation cancel system so it can still provide that level of mastery that people strive to reach but still maintains initial startup animations. This will keep the combat flowing but also not make it so ridiculous that you can cancel a move after barely 1 frame and still have it hit as I can now.

Was there any point in Zenimax hiring animators if they were just going to end up making it so the best way to play is to cancel all the animations they created? When it comes to combat, they really should look at whats made Street Fighter so successful.