Monthly cost justified at the current SOTG

Ravinsild · May 2014

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Sub-numbers are only really relevant if you're an investor in the company. For me, I could not care less how profitable ESO is, as long as it is profitable enough to continue existing and providing content.

Isn't it ironic how it's the investors that essentially make this call?

You ought to start caring how profitable ESO is to the investors because they're the shot callers.

Quel_Drathon · May 2014

It's really hilarious to watch people only demand things that others like me waited for years to happen in MMOs. Vanilla WoW was a mess at start, vanilla SWTOR too all MMOs were a mess at launch. The bad thing is that this title of the game attracted many console users which are not used in patience. It's not their fault but they must learn to wait.

SadisticSavior · May 2014

Ravinsild wrote: »

That article is from September 16, 2013 and in February of 2014 the subs went up from 7.6 million to 7.8 million. I don't know if they're still that high, but I'd say they've evened out and are now maintaining a status quo. Neither increasing nor decreasing. Except for me..They lost my subscription.

Uh huh

http://wtbgold.blogspot.com/2014/05/WoW-2014-q1-subscription-numbers.html

Those are numbers from 1st quarter 2014.

Ravinsild wrote: »

However I think a majority of people who have left WoW do not hate nor despise it nor go out of their way to flame it like you do.

How do you know? Have you spoken with all of them?

Ravinsild wrote: »

EDIT: One last thing, dropping like a rock is a laughable phrase. It was 12 million in 2010 and is 7.8 million as of February of 2014....that isn't dropping like a rock. That's a decrease of only around 4 million over four years.

Dropping like a rock would be if it went from 12 million in 2010 to 2 million in 2011.

LOL, semantics.

I don't really care either way...it is obviously decreasing in popularity rapidly, so I think it's a mistake to try to point to it as a success story. If it was appealing at one time it obviously is not anymore. And I'm obviously not the only one that hates it.

In the end what I am saying is this: Lots of MMOs like WoW already exist. If you want to play WoW-style games, there is no reason to turn ESO into another WoW...those games already exist.

SadisticSavior · May 2014

Ravinsild wrote: »

Isn't it ironic how it's the investors that essentially make this call?

You ought to start caring how profitable ESO is to the investors because they're the shot callers.

Well, so far I have seen zero indication that the investors are worried. Let me know when that changes, k?

aipex8_ESO · May 2014

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Ravinsild wrote: »

Isn't it ironic how it's the investors that essentially make this call?

You ought to start caring how profitable ESO is to the investors because they're the shot callers.

Well, so far I have seen zero indication that the investors are worried. Let me know when that changes, k?

And where do you think you would hear that kind of info? Think Zenimax would post a sticky on the forum about how worried the board is? I'd be willing to bet that 6 months of lost subscription fees from all the potential console players has the investors more than a little worried!

SadisticSavior · May 2014

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Ravinsild wrote: »

Isn't it ironic how it's the investors that essentially make this call?

You ought to start caring how profitable ESO is to the investors because they're the shot callers.

Well, so far I have seen zero indication that the investors are worried. Let me know when that changes, k?

And where do you think you would hear that kind of info? Think Zenimax would post a sticky on the forum about how worried the board is?

So we should just assume stuff by default? No news is bad news? I've seen way worse MMOs last for way longer than a few months. It is premature to be worried IMO.

elder Scrolls is a high profile IP. It's going to have to fail for a long time before Zenimax pulls out. Even if we assume it is failing right now.

Also...I'd rather see this game crash and burn as it is right now than turn into another WoW...so I am willing to take the risk even assuming you are 100% right.

aipex8_ESO · May 2014

SadisticSavior wrote: »

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Ravinsild wrote: »

Isn't it ironic how it's the investors that essentially make this call?

You ought to start caring how profitable ESO is to the investors because they're the shot callers.

Well, so far I have seen zero indication that the investors are worried. Let me know when that changes, k?

And where do you think you would hear that kind of info? Think Zenimax would post a sticky on the forum about how worried the board is?

So we should just assume stuff by default? No news is bad news?

I've seen way worse MMOs last for way longer than a few months. It is premature to be worried IMO.

ESO is a high profile IP. It's going to have to fail for a long time before Zenimax pulls out. Even if we assume it is failing right now.

I'm actually not suggesting that the game is in any kind of state of emergency. I think any investor would be a little worried if a release date got pushed 6 months (especially when there is a subscription fee involved) so I just used that as an example. My serious question was, where would you hear that info if they were worried?

roflcopter · May 2014

Are we still talking about $15 a month?

Yasha · May 2014

gronbek wrote: »

I mean, compared to certain other MMO titles out there what does TESO offer for the monthly cost? Not much in my opinion.
- No housing
- No auction house
- No underwater swimming
- No consequence system
- No SLI support
- Game design that totally break immersion in public areas
- Broken loot
- Good combat system
- Non explorable areas, invincible walls.
- Low res textures world objects
- Limited endgame
- Bots problem not solved, getting worse
- No dedicated EU server
- Bugs, too many

A rushed product incomplete in my opinion

You are right - it feels wrong to pay a high box price+sub given the issues. GW2 for example had a reasonable box price, no sub and covered all the bases right out of the gate.

ErykGrimm · May 2014

Yasha wrote: »

gronbek wrote: »

I mean, compared to certain other MMO titles out there what does TESO offer for the monthly cost? Not much in my opinion.
- No housing
- No auction house
- No underwater swimming
- No consequence system
- No SLI support
- Game design that totally break immersion in public areas
- Broken loot
- Good combat system
- Non explorable areas, invincible walls.
- Low res textures world objects
- Limited endgame
- Bots problem not solved, getting worse
- No dedicated EU server
- Bugs, too many

A rushed product incomplete in my opinion

You are right - it feels wrong to pay a high box price+sub given the issues. GW2 for example had a reasonable box price, no sub and covered all the bases right out of the gate.

And despite all that, you are here. Posting in the ESO forums, not the GW2 forums. I played Zerg Wars 2 and I got what I paid for. I'm assuming you weren't there when the game launched. It was a major disappointment. Those facts, however, are irrelevant. The games are apples and oranges. Except guild wars would be a crab apple and ESO is a tangerine.

Arklorn · May 2014

gronbek wrote: »

I mean, compared to certain other MMO titles out there what does TESO offer for the monthly cost? Not much in my opinion.
- No housing
- No auction house
- No underwater swimming
- No consequence system
- No SLI support
- Game design that totally break immersion in public areas
- Broken loot
- Good combat system
- Non explorable areas, invincible walls.
- Low res textures world objects
- Limited endgame
- Bots problem not solved, getting worse
- No dedicated EU server
- Bugs, too many

A rushed product incomplete in my opinion

I agree. Love the combat, but so many issues... Feel like this is a paid beta.

xwadirtydiggler · May 2014

I unsubed today and remove it from my computer. I just got totally bored with the veteran content and find the pvp in the game just as boring so I didn't see any point in continuing to quest.

ErykGrimm · May 2014

xwadirtydiggler wrote: »

I unsubed today and remove it from my computer. I just got totally bored with the veteran content and find the pvp in the game just as boring so I didn't see any point in continuing to quest.

Cool story bro.

Avidus · May 2014

I love the people who say 'I quit today'
Obviously was a harsh break up because now you are here offering nothing constructive.

I gotta say I disagree with every single item on OPs list.
This game is genuinely amazing, and genuinely is its own game.

Of course I am not blind to the issues in the game.
But think of it this way, if you pay $50 to go to an all you can eat restaurant and you and the hundreds of people eat all the food.
But you want more, what do you do? ask for your money back and leave?
Do you ask the chef to hand you the half cooked food?
Or do you wait until the food is cooked and help yourself again?

And before anybody comments how my comparison is unrelated, you would be surprised. I work for a business that has an all you can eat, and most vocal complainers do not realize it has to be cooked before it gets brought out.

starkerealm · May 2014

Ravinsild wrote: »

mmosean_ESO wrote: »

Why does everyone want underwater combat? That crap was annoying in GW2.

I imagine it's just for more exploration and because you can craft some extremely beautiful scenes underwater. Imagine Ayleid ruins under water and mossy caves filled with bright and colorful fish, deadly sharks and terrifying massive squids creeping out of crevices near the depths.

Interest new enemies like those naga women you often encounter...lamias I think? The possibilities are endless.

Part of the appeal is that underwater exploration has been an element in the main games. At least Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim all have stuff underwater to go find and poke around. It's also half the point of the Argonian race in the modern single player games. So, presenting a game where they've just outright nuked the main feature of one of the races is a little odd.

Of course, they also neutered the stealth system, so that's the Bosmer and Khajiit focuses gone.

Akuydab14_ESO · May 2014

gronbek wrote: »

I mean, compared to certain other MMO titles out there what does TESO offer for the monthly cost? Not much in my opinion.
- No housing
- No auction house
- No underwater swimming
- No consequence system
- No SLI support
- Game design that totally break immersion in public areas
- Broken loot
- Good combat system
- Non explorable areas, invincible walls.
- Low res textures world objects
- Limited endgame
- Bots problem not solved, getting worse
- No dedicated EU server
- Bugs, too many

A rushed product incomplete in my opinion

It's actually fun to play? That's the only thing I give a *** about anyways, so yea, it's worth it.

Unlike...

WoW (until next expansion. And that's a "maybe")

Tera. Quit that, reapers can't even make it interesting again.

GW2. Lol.

Wildstar. Played that in closed and open beta, can't get into it.

SWTOR. LOLOLOLOLOLOL that was the most disappointing game mmo I ever played.

Oh yea and I played AoC, LOTRO, DnD:Neverwinter, and like every other "decent" or F2P mmo, and until WoD comes out and PvP doesn't totally blow, there's not another MMO out there that appeals to me, at all.

Oh yea and Blade and Soul chinese beta, Bless, and another east asia mmo that's in beta... (forget name)

TLDR: ESO is actually fun, and the most amazing looking MMO with the most aesthetic appeal (to me at least) out currently, so until WoD comes out, and I can see If it sucks less than MoP, this is the only MMO worth playing, and even then I doubt I'll quit. I'll just be paying for two. Oh well. $15 is soooooo muuuuch. xD hahaha.

starkerealm · May 2014

Akuydab14_ESO wrote: »

...and until WoD comes out...

You do know CCP canceled World of Darkness... right? About a month ago?

Zanagan · May 2014

gronbek wrote: »

I mean, compared to certain other MMO titles out there what does TESO offer for the monthly cost? Not much in my opinion.
- No housing
- No auction house
- No underwater swimming
- No consequence system
- No SLI support
- Game design that totally break immersion in public areas
- Broken loot
- Good combat system
- Non explorable areas, invincible walls.
- Low res textures world objects
- Limited endgame
- Bots problem not solved, getting worse
- No dedicated EU server
- Bugs, too many

A rushed product incomplete in my opinion

I consider the majority on this list a standard for any MMO. With WoW being the dominate MMO, I consider features of WoW to be the basics/standards for any upcoming MMO. If you're not even on par with WoW, why are you even trying?

Akuydab14_ESO · May 2014

starkerealm wrote: »

Akuydab14_ESO wrote: »

...and until WoD comes out...

You do know CCP canceled World of Darkness... right? About a month ago?

If you actually read the entire post you would know I wasn't talking about... whatever you're talking about.

alarikub17_ESO · May 2014

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

My serious question was, where would you hear that info if they were worried?

Usually the responses to the quarterly investor call, however Zenimax is privately held so that is not going to be the case.

Akuydab14_ESO · May 2014

Zanagan wrote: »

gronbek wrote: »

I mean, compared to certain other MMO titles out there what does TESO offer for the monthly cost? Not much in my opinion.
- No housing
- No auction house
- No underwater swimming
- No consequence system
- No SLI support
- Game design that totally break immersion in public areas
- Broken loot
- Good combat system
- Non explorable areas, invincible walls.
- Low res textures world objects
- Limited endgame
- Bots problem not solved, getting worse
- No dedicated EU server
- Bugs, too many

A rushed product incomplete in my opinion

I consider the majority on this list a standard for any MMO. With WoW being the dominate MMO, I consider features of WoW to be the basics/standards for any upcoming MMO. If you're not even on par with WoW, why are you even trying?

Was ESO your first MMO, and you're judging everything else off a review you read about World of Warcraft?

Have you ever played an MMO in beta\launch?

Because.... I have? Alot? Including playing WoW from classic, and never unsubbing until around six months ago, and If you think it was a smooth buttery release, with no problems, then I don't even know what to think. Lol.

Your "MMO standard" had many, If not most of the exact same problems ESO, (edit: EVERY MMO EVER.) and continued to do so for the first two expansion releases.

Also, WoW has: No housing, No consequence system, Non explorable areas, Invisible walls, Low-res texture world objects, BOTS EVERYWHERE LOL, (the amount of bots in WoW is REDICULOUS, both in the open world and ESPECIALLY Battlegrounds, like that just makes me giggle) and as far as the good combat system goes, WoW has a imbalanced and horribly bloated combat system atm, as I posted about almost a year ago on the WoW PvP forums.

(Oh wow they're actually removing ability bloat and balancing class skills, and crunching main stats, who would have thought)

So what in the WORLD actually made you think that your statement had any valid points? I understood it to say "ESO does not have many of the features that the #1 MMO Industry standard ALSO does not have, and many of the same problems are shared by both games"

So basically ESO is as good as the #1 standard? Ok good, we're on the same page. Later troll.

gronbek · May 2014

Avidus wrote: »

I love the people who say 'I quit today'
Obviously was a harsh break up because now you are here offering nothing constructive.

I gotta say I disagree with every single item on OPs list.
This game is genuinely amazing, and genuinely is its own game.

Of course I am not blind to the issues in the game.
But think of it this way, if you pay $50 to go to an all you can eat restaurant and you and the hundreds of people eat all the food.
But you want more, what do you do? ask for your money back and leave?
Do you ask the chef to hand you the half cooked food?
Or do you wait until the food is cooked and help yourself again?

And before anybody comments how my comparison is unrelated, you would be surprised. I work for a business that has an all you can eat, and most vocal complainers do not realize it has to be cooked before it gets brought out.

Hmm, you disagree with every item? Do you not have any quality standards in your business?

gronbek · May 2014

starkerealm wrote: »

Ravinsild wrote: »

mmosean_ESO wrote: »

Why does everyone want underwater combat? That crap was annoying in GW2.

I imagine it's just for more exploration and because you can craft some extremely beautiful scenes underwater. Imagine Ayleid ruins under water and mossy caves filled with bright and colorful fish, deadly sharks and terrifying massive squids creeping out of crevices near the depths.

Interest new enemies like those naga women you often encounter...lamias I think? The possibilities are endless.

Part of the appeal is that underwater exploration has been an element in the main games. At least Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim all have stuff underwater to go find and poke around. It's also half the point of the Argonian race in the modern single player games. So, presenting a game where they've just outright nuked the main feature of one of the races is a little odd.

Of course, they also neutered the stealth system, so that's the Bosmer and Khajiit focuses gone.

There someone who understands why swimming and consequence system should be in from start

Quel_Drathon · May 2014

starkerealm wrote: »

Akuydab14_ESO wrote: »

...and until WoD comes out...

You do know CCP canceled World of Darkness... right? About a month ago?

WoD=Warlords Of Draenor. Please keep the terminology to a level....World of Darkness is the PnP RPG World name not the game name. Pirates are not a trend anymore...I want my eyes....

Zanagan · May 2014

Akuydab14_ESO wrote: »

Zanagan wrote: »

gronbek wrote: »

I mean, compared to certain other MMO titles out there what does TESO offer for the monthly cost? Not much in my opinion.
- No housing
- No auction house
- No underwater swimming
- No consequence system
- No SLI support
- Game design that totally break immersion in public areas
- Broken loot
- Good combat system
- Non explorable areas, invincible walls.
- Low res textures world objects
- Limited endgame
- Bots problem not solved, getting worse
- No dedicated EU server
- Bugs, too many

A rushed product incomplete in my opinion

I consider the majority on this list a standard for any MMO. With WoW being the dominate MMO, I consider features of WoW to be the basics/standards for any upcoming MMO. If you're not even on par with WoW, why are you even trying?

Was ESO your first MMO, and you're judging everything else off a review you read about World of Warcraft?

Have you ever played an MMO in beta\launch?

WoW was my very first MMO. Never did the beta but I started a few days after it's launch. From classic WoW to MoP. Downed all bosses from Ragnaros, heroic Firelands, and most in MoP. I took a break and unsubbed well over a year now.

Because.... I have? Alot? Including playing WoW from classic, and never unsubbing until around six months ago, and If you think it was a smooth buttery release, with no problems, then I don't even know what to think. Lol.

Your "MMO standard" had many, If not most of the exact same problems ESO, (edit: EVERY MMO EVER.) and continued to do so for the first two expansion releases.

I never said WoW had a smooth release but it was nothing as glaring as what we're having with ESO. Those other MMOs, where are they now? They're F2P.

Also, WoW has: No housing, No consequence system, Non explorable areas, Invisible walls, Low-res texture world objects, BOTS EVERYWHERE LOL, (the amount of bots in WoW is REDICULOUS, both in the open world and ESPECIALLY Battlegrounds, like that just makes me giggle) and as far as the good combat system goes, WoW has a imbalanced and horribly bloated combat system atm, as I posted about almost a year ago on the WoW PvP forums.

If you read closely, I said most of the things on his list not everything! BOTS EVERYWHERE? really? I didn't notice bots but then it might of been my server I was on or the many other servers WoW has.

So what in the WORLD actually made you think that your statement had any valid points? I understood it to say "ESO does not have many of the features that the #1 MMO Industry standard ALSO does not have, and many of the same problems are shared by both games"

So basically ESO is as good as the #1 standard? Ok good, we're on the same page. Later troll.

The OP asked if the monthly subscription was justifiable compared to what other MMOs offer. My opinion is no.

bugulu · May 2014

Generic MMO:s seems to have worked great last couple of years.
If I want to play a game similar to WoW, I would pick WoW and not some half arsed copy.

Sorry, I don't agree with you, the game is worth my money.

Phantorang · May 2014

Which games do you compare ESO with?

No MMO has ever launched with those features, and most probably there will not be one either.

It is in the nature of MMO to introduce and patch stuff like that in, ive said it before and Ill say it again, Im glad they didnt have it all from the beginning, Im happy we got stuff to look forward too, that also gives me the opportunity to be a part of the development of ESO.

CoUsT · May 2014

gronbek wrote: »

- No auction house

No auction house? Yay, NO auction house! I'm happy.

Loco_Mofo · May 2014

Seems to be another case of 'expectations set to high'

aleister · May 2014

I consider a subscription fee a feature, but, yeah, they need to get on top of this game's problems and quick.