To be competitive in PvP, you are forced to roll Sorceror or quit the game.

Soraka

I will admit, I made a sorcerer after failing a lot in PVP as a full heal build Templar (possibly due to my noob-ness). However, I also do not have it in me to level up and do completion, etc. that I did on my Templar. I'm hoping that things will get balanced at some point. Also knowing my luck if I stuck with a sorcerer, by the time I hit vet levels the nerf bat will hit and I'll be left with an overnerfed champ. So for now I'm gonna keep on with my Templar.

ruzlb16_ESO

Crotext wrote: »

No one really answered me, why can't you just spec into sword/shield or 2h and use the spammable charge abilities to just keep pace?

Because they picked the 5 skills they wanted on their skill bar back at level 7, and heaven forbid that those 5 skills aren't an absolutely perfect counter for every other possible combination of skills in the game. It's mostly the same people who said that vampires were OP, and then erupted in horror when anyone suggested maybe putting Silver Bolts on their bar because we weren't letting them play the way THEY wanted...

TheGrandAlliance

monkeymystic wrote: »

Right now you have to play a sorceror to be competitive in pvp, any other class are just lagging behind because they lack escape bolt combined with AoE root spam and nuke spam

Uhmmmm when it comes to PvP:

DK>Temp>Soco>NB


Anyone who thinks Soco is on top needs their head examined. Perhaps need to PvP some more themselves.

1. Use one of various skills to break CC.
2. Use reflect abilities and Soco will kill themseleves.
3. If they are bolt escaping... dont' chase: You have already won.

ForTheRealm

Crotext wrote: »

Can't people just spec into Sword/Board or 2h and spam Shield Charge/Charge every time a sorc bolts though?

If you try to use Charge to chase Sorc, you run out of stamina very fast, then:
1) If the Sorc is smart, he stops after couple zips, and kills you - as you don't have enough stamina to effectively fight.
1) If the Sorc is not very smart, he zips away, eventually regenerating Magicka in a meantime (Dark Conversion)

weirdkitten

Crotext wrote: »

No one really answered me, why can't you just spec into sword/shield or 2h and use the spammable charge abilities to just keep pace?

You can't as they have a travel time and bolt escape doesn't, you'll never catch up. Same deal with teleport strike, it has a cast time so by the time your cast goes off the sorc has bolt escaped twice and is out of range so your cast fizzles.

Singular

Yeah, my main was an NB but I got bored and rerolled into a sorc. No, not for bolt escape, but just b/c I like casters. No, I don't think everyone will run a sorc in pvp. Yes, I think you're silly for getting all worried about bolt escape being super powerful - I think you just see sorcs get away from you using that ability and are all upset. Sorry.

ruzlb16_ESO

weirdkitten wrote: »

You can't as they have a travel time and bolt escape doesn't, you'll never catch up. Same deal with teleport strike, it has a cast time so by the time your cast goes off the sorc has bolt escaped twice and is out of range so your cast fizzles.

Teleport strike has the same cast time as BE. Timed it on both my NB and my sorc - the animations take exactly the same amount of time. The only significant difference between the two is the BE doesn't need a target (and I imagine the same is true for the sword and board charge, tho I don't have a sword and board character because shield bash means that spec truly is broken).

Mephos

how does running away make you op? .. I don´t get it. If they stay to cast, I charge in.. if they run, I just /flute and wait or leave the area slowly. o.O ..

btw, if everyone rerolls sorc.. very good I love spamming eclipse on them and looking how they kill themselfs .. or try to get into aoe melee range.. just eat some aedric speers and get wrecked ^^

NordJitsu

Man I can't wait till all those nasty Dragon Knights quit the game. This is going to be great.

They're pretty much the hardest class to kill as a Sorc, so this game is going to be a cake walk for me once ya'll reroll.

xDonMega

I was thinking along similar lines... I'd rather have them re-rolling sorc than re-rolling DK..

Raggok

NordJitsu wrote: »

Man I can't wait till all those nasty Dragon Knights quit the game. This is going to be great.

They're pretty much the hardest class to kill as a Sorc, so this game is going to be a cake walk for me once ya'll reroll.

Roots are a bigger problem than BE. Sorcs are harder to kill if they chose to run away. DKs are harder to kill in a straight up fight due to root spam.

Wolfaen

NookyZooky wrote: »

This is a huge issue. people can deny it all they want, but sorcs are EXTREMLY OP.
they can summon minions
they can spam AOEs
spam bolt escape
heal themselves instantly
spells go thru walls sometimes:/
and they have so many roots, and stuns that's its insane
I cant even play my PvP campaign right now because its all ADV10 sorcs doing all these lame spams and bolts and all this crap. im not saying make sorcs weaker, im saying do something about these abilities. put a cooldown on them if need be! if zenimax has to add cooldowns to certain abilities, fine! but something must be done. im about at my wits end with all these bolt escapes and AOE spams and roots and stuns and that insta heal thing which I see used CONSTANTLY..... yeah. yall get what im saying. I have ALOT of patience, and over the last month of seeing barley anything done about this, my patience is fading. NONE of the other classes has ANYTHING as powerful as this crap. Again, im not saying make the sorcs weaker, im saying do something about their abilities. PvP has turned into "play as a sorc or die" mode. I refuse to redo again, and make a sorc. it took me 2 weeks just to hit 20:/ either zenimax needs it fix these abilities, or expect to see their PvP servers rapidly deplete.

...I stopped reading after "they can summon minions"... lol

NordJitsu

Raggok wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Man I can't wait till all those nasty Dragon Knights quit the game. This is going to be great.

They're pretty much the hardest class to kill as a Sorc, so this game is going to be a cake walk for me once ya'll reroll.

Roots are a bigger problem than BE. Sorcs are harder to kill if they chose to run away. DKs are harder to kill in a straight up fight due to root spam.

@Raggok‌

Its not just root spam though.

DKs are the only class without a single bad ability. You practically cannot screw up a DK build. All of their skills, both passive and active, are amazing and very useful in a variety of situations.

Their best skills are Dark Talons (smart AoE root with crazy base DPS plus synergy), Green Dragon's Blood (instant self heal unlike any other in the game that also helps with Stamina management), Reflective Scales (turn off all of the highest damage abilities in the game), Inhale (make all PvE content a cake walk), Cinder Storm (AoE snare plus solid DPS), Molten Armaments (huge group buff and self buff to make all DPS go through the roof), and Molten Whip (can make up some of the best single target DPS in the game.)

The other classes by comparison all have terrible skills. Sorcs have things like the pets, which are atrocious, as well as individually useless skills. Nightblades have a whole bunch of broken or bad skills. Templars have fewer useful skills than useless ones, which really hurts their build diversity.

I personally don't want a buff to DKs though. I'd just rather see the useless stuff from the other classes made good. And I'd like to see a change to root immunity (2-4 sec immunity after roll dodge.)

BloodStorm

Light armor / magicka regen and the amount you have is the issue not the class. If you got light armor with decent magicka on any class you can spam stuff all day. Nightblade with light armor can spam Shadow disguise all day and barely get hit at all PVE wise and probably same PVP if 1 vs 1. The issue is Magicka not sorcs. Stamina is horrible and useless atm. Vampires have drain so can recover stamina all day and stamina adds *** damage to attacks and so on. Magicka is the way to go with enchants and some points in it. Hell even with all points into life and just light armor for the reduced perks you are better than all medium with stamina put in.

Reevster

Veteran Sorc here re-rolling to a DK....Sorcs just plain suck cause I cant kill DKs...whaaaaaa, cry sniff....sniff....

Singular

NordJitsu wrote: »

Raggok wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Man I can't wait till all those nasty Dragon Knights quit the game. This is going to be great.

They're pretty much the hardest class to kill as a Sorc, so this game is going to be a cake walk for me once ya'll reroll.

Roots are a bigger problem than BE. Sorcs are harder to kill if they chose to run away. DKs are harder to kill in a straight up fight due to root spam.

@Raggok‌

Its not just root spam though.

DKs are the only class without a single bad ability. You practically cannot screw up a DK build. All of their skills, both passive and active, are amazing and very useful in a variety of situations.

Their best skills are Dark Talons (smart AoE root with crazy base DPS plus synergy), Green Dragon's Blood (instant self heal unlike any other in the game that also helps with Stamina management), Reflective Scales (turn off all of the highest damage abilities in the game), Inhale (make all PvE content a cake walk), Cinder Storm (AoE snare plus solid DPS), Molten Armaments (huge group buff and self buff to make all DPS go through the roof), and Molten Whip (can make up some of the best single target DPS in the game.)

The other classes by comparison all have terrible skills. Sorcs have things like the pets, which are atrocious, as well as individually useless skills. Nightblades have a whole bunch of broken or bad skills. Templars have fewer useful skills than useless ones, which really hurts their build diversity.

I personally don't want a buff to DKs though. I'd just rather see the useless stuff from the other classes made good. And I'd like to see a change to root immunity (2-4 sec immunity after roll dodge.)

(think you mean "nerf" not "buff")

That's funny - I played a DK in beta and just struggled through content. I must have been doing it wrong! It totally turned me off them, so I built an NB. Kind of getting bored of that class, so I built a Sorc.

I really like the idea of bolt escaping all over the map - but now they nerfed the magic regen! So this sucks.

Teevesnacks

Ever wanted to know what would happen if Mages in world of warcraft had no cooldown on blink? Witness it here first hand in ESO!!!

Rylana

Dunno bout yall but I roll a bow/dual wield vamp medium armor crit machine of a nightblade and I never have problems killing or keeping up with Sorcs.

>_> They either run within the first 3 seconds or they die, simple as. Then they get to try to find me before I find them for another go at it.

If I die to a sorc I screwed up, or there was more than one player present in which case that was numbers game.

Sorcs are easy as hell to kill if you catch them off guard or get a really good crit run. Hell ive oneshot a sorc with a snipe before.

Whats the fuss about?

trimsic_ESO

Quitting the game just because of some temporary balance issues here or there is overreacting.

Every single MMO I've played since 2002 have had some balance issues. This is a normal situation for a game that has just been released. The game designers do not always have the same level of experience as the players do, but once the game is released they can look at the numbers and see what has to be tuned or fixed.

To come back to the sorcerer, this class has at least two main issues that come to mind: their ability to spam Bolt Escape, and Critical Surge.

High level sorcerers can have 55%+ chance to deal a critical hit. With Critical Surge, the damage they deal with a critical hit heals them for 65% of the damage inflicted. This is particularly over powered. In short, Critical Surge + Pulsar = god mode.

But be patient; this game was released 6 weeks ago, and problems like these will obviously be solved.

Reevster

Rylana wrote: »

Dunno bout yall but I roll a bow/dual wield vamp medium armor crit machine of a nightblade and I never have problems killing or keeping up with Sorcs.

>_> They either run within the first 3 seconds or they die, simple as. Then they get to try to find me before I find them for another go at it.

If I die to a sorc I screwed up, or there was more than one player present in which case that was numbers game.

Sorcs are easy as hell to kill if you catch them off guard or get a really good crit run. Hell ive oneshot a sorc with a snipe before.

Whats the fuss about?

Exactly, some people just need to learn how to play their class instead of posting nerf this nerf that, the worst part is that Zoe or Soe or insert company here will listen to a few whiners on forums and screw up classes to the point that no one wants to play any class anymore because they have been nerf bated to death, stop listening to the nerf this nerf that whiner crowd.

Tankqull

NordJitsu wrote: »

I personally don't want a buff nerf to DKs though. I'd just rather see the useless stuff from the other classes made good. And I'd like to see a change to root immunity (2-4 sec immunity after roll dodge.)

you ment this, don´t you?
beside that as long as DT has an uncapped number of effected enemys - i totally agree but that will be changed in 1.1 and thus i do not feel a 6person root actually need that or better we should wait to see the effect of that reduction before doing further corrections.
same situation for NB´s once their skills and passives are fixed i fear they turn out to be highly overpowered (they allready kill every unprepared enemy in a blink of an eye) so we have to wait and see what they will be after their needed fixes.
so from my pov the most needed change is a change in ZOS patching strategy, the current strategy - as SWTOR has told - of big patches every now and then is awfull for the player base and is a true reason for thousands of players leaving. because only the most dedicated player endure months of a broken situation.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Quitting the game just because of some temporary balance issues here or there is overreacting.
...
High level sorcerers can have 55%+ chance to deal a critical hit. With Critical Surge, the damage they deal with a critical hit heals them for 65% of the damage inflicted. This is particularly over powered. In short, Critical Surge + Pulsar = god mode.
...

So you are saying someone that heals himself ~200hps for every pulsar they do in melee range is God mode? I tought of exactly the same synergy when i picked pulsar to grind trough all that boring pve content and once i got it it unfortunately (fortunately for the game balance) didnt work like that. For every pulsar i did there was a single return IF it crits on any of the enemies, didnt matter if i crit 4 different enemies with 1 pulsar, it would only return me gains from 1 crit.

Please document your claims if you are not sure on the actual mechanics and NEVER trust the tooltips, there is so much ambiguity and misinformation in them that it will only bring you frustration.

EDIT: also the increased weapon damage from CS will only affect your weapon light/heavy atacks if you use a resto/destro staff (dont ask me why) and only the melee weapons will actualy benefit from the increase, in many pvp sittuations i dont even bother casting CS, especialy when i aoe, since that time/magika can be put to better use.

CS is a very useful tool nonetheless, with wide range of usability and worth having it in nearly any sorc build, but far from being OP.

EDIT 2: there is also the impenetrable trait, if you choose to use crafted armours i highly recommend it for any pvp build, it will counter preaty much any crit build out there and lover the crit from stealth or crit with potion chances considerably.

kellemdros

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Quitting the game just because of some temporary balance issues here or there is overreacting.

Every single MMO I've played since 2002 have had some balance issues. This is a normal situation for a game that has just been released. The game designers do not always have the same level of experience as the players do, but once the game is released they can look at the numbers and see what has to be tuned or fixed.

To come back to the sorcerer, this class has at least two main issues that come to mind: their ability to spam Bolt Escape, and Critical Surge.

High level sorcerers can have 55%+ chance to deal a critical hit. With Critical Surge, the damage they deal with a critical hit heals them for 65% of the damage inflicted. This is particularly over powered. In short, Critical Surge + Pulsar = god mode.

But be patient; this game was released 6 weeks ago, and problems like these will obviously be solved.

Yeah, nerf the only heal that sorcerers have, btw:

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Quitting the game just because of some temporary balance issues here or there is overreacting.
...
High level sorcerers can have 55%+ chance to deal a critical hit. With Critical Surge, the damage they deal with a critical hit heals them for 65% of the damage inflicted. This is particularly over powered. In short, Critical Surge + Pulsar = god mode.
...

So you are saying someone that heals himself ~200hps for every pulsar they do in melee range is God mode? I tought of exactly the same synergy when i picked pulsar to grind trough all that boring pve content and once i got it it unfortunately (fortunately for the game balance) didnt work like that. For every pulsar i did there was a single return IF it crits on any of the enemies, didnt matter if i crit 4 different enemies with 1 pulsar, it would only return me gains from 1 crit.

Please document your claims if you are not sure on the actual mechanics and NEVER trust the tooltips, there is so much ambiguity and misinformation in them that it will only bring you frustration.

EDIT: also the increased weapon damage from CS will only affect your weapon light/heavy atacks if you use a resto/destro staff (dont ask me why) and only the melee weapons will actualy benefit from the increase, in many pvp sittuations i dont even bother casting CS, especialy when i aoe, since that time/magika can be put to better use.

CS is a very useful tool nonetheless, with wide range of usability and worth having it in nearly any sorc build, but far from being OP.

EDIT 2: there is also the impenetrable trait, if you choose to use crafted armours i highly recommend it for any pvp build, it will counter preaty much any crit build out there and lover the crit from stealth or crit with potion chances considerably.

This

NordJitsu

@tankqullb16_ESO‌

Yes. Thank you for the correction.

A buff to DKs would be like a big middle finger to the other 3 classes, lol.

And you're right that Night Blades are pretty great on 1.1. They didn't need buffs so much as just fixes. And they're a really good class.

I think Templar needs the most love. Sorcs could use it on a few skills as well. Pets need to either be taken out of the game (in which case we'd get new better skills) or MASSIVELY buffed. Lightning Pool could also use a major buff, like, just tripple the damage.

trimsic_ESO

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

So you are saying someone that heals himself ~200hps for every pulsar they do in melee range is God mode?

Hum, I'm puzzled with what you said, because either you don't know much about what you are talking about or you are not telling the truth to the community.

If you rush into a pack of mobs, or if you rush into a pack of players in AvA, with all the shields up (for instance immovable and more), and you activate Critical Surge, then with a Pulsar you can:
- Hit 6 targets
- Potentially critical 3+ targets (55% critical chance)
- Leverage on each critical DOT

Therefore you can get heal for about 600+ HP for each pulsar.

This is what I call reasonably, definitely, and without any doubt a God Mode. Even if you continue to disagree.

xDonMega

What happens when you run out of power?

Nijjion

xDonMega wrote: »

What happens when you run out of power?

Dark Exchange I guess?

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

So you are saying someone that heals himself ~200hps for every pulsar they do in melee range is God mode?

Hum, I'm puzzled with what you said, because either you don't know much about what you are talking about or you are not telling the truth to the community.

If you rush into a pack of mobs, or if you rush into a pack of players in AvA, with all the shields up (for instance immovable and more), and you activate Critical Surge, then with a Pulsar you can:
- Hit 6 targets
- Potentially critical 3+ targets (55% critical chance)
- Leverage on each critical DOT

Therefore you can get heal for about 600+ HP for each pulsar.

This is what I call reasonably, definitely, and without any doubt a God Mode. Even if you continue to disagree.

Afraid it doesnt work this way. I'w been using pulsar to leveling since level 30 or so and i actively use in AvA. If you crit 6 different targets it will return a single heal.

This is very easy to test for any sorc, i'll assume you have access to a sorc with critical surge and tested this out and not base your statement on assumption as common sence dictates?

If so, simply log on your sorc, bar critical surge and pulsar and go aoe a group of mobs or players if you do not trust what i wrote here.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Nijjion wrote: »

xDonMega wrote: »

What happens when you run out of power?

Dark Exchange I guess?

Dark exchange is channeled thus very sittuational, equillibrium is the better option in many pvp sittuations even for a sorc. The sinergy between those 2 is also sweet if you can spare the skill slot, if not for pvp, for pve is one of the fastest magika replenishers for them bosses with long health bars

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

NordJitsu wrote: »

@tankqullb16_ESO‌

Yes. Thank you for the correction.

A buff to DKs would be like a big middle finger to the other 3 classes, lol.

And you're right that Night Blades are pretty great on 1.1. They didn't need buffs so much as just fixes. And they're a really good class.

I think Templar needs the most love. Sorcs could use it on a few skills as well. Pets need to either be taken out of the game (in which case we'd get new better skills) or MASSIVELY buffed. Lightning Pool could also use a major buff, like, just tripple the damage.

Many sorc skills are not worth slotting but same can be said for templars, nbs. DK is exception to this Good point lol, now that i think of it, all the sorcs look like clones of eachother since here is not much to pick from in the first place.