[Feedback] Vampirism is harmful to the game's PvP.

skyprowerb14_ESO

limeli8 wrote: »

Mist form should be targetable easy, and both mistform and batswarm need their costs to be higher by like 10-20%. Let me tell you lol batswarm is not OP at all if it costs over 100 ult to use. And nether is mist if people can target you easy. Then again 6 target limit on batswarm is already a big nerf so i guess we'll see.

From what I understand, Bat Swarm isn't getting hit by the 6 target limit.

Theoretically, Mist Form should be easy to counter. If I fought a vampire and it misted to try and escape, I could use Silver Bolts on it, stunning it and knocking it out of Mist Form, allowing me to close the distance again. The problem is that since the vampire can quickly and easily break out of the Silver Bolts stun and go straight back into Mist Form, it becomes less of a way to quickly cut off a fleeing vampire and more of a way to inconvenience them a couple times before they finally reach a safe place.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

honestly, people that whine about classes and cry for nerf's invalidate themselves as true gamers to me. in your youth, when you came against a boss in a rpg or adventure game, did you call the devs or publisher and demand a fix? no? then why should they do it here, they had beta after beta of people doing the same thing, and if you ask me, more people played the beta because it was free. if they didnt nerf the classes then, why should they now.

play the game and learn to counter attack, dont sit and cry because someone is better than you.

ROFL your comparing a boss fight to a player in pvp! You just admitted vampires are overpowered without even realizing it! They aren't players they are pvp bosses and there is about 1000 of them. Good luck! I guess the developers should just add in a boss skill line so all players can run around 1 shotting people who arent tanks and have full immunity to cc on top of a 40k health bar! Then if you whine about it your not only not a "true gamer", but you also need to learn to adapt and get good because its a part of the game.

No my friend, players are not bosses and they should never ever be close to being that powerful. When people see and make videos of a single vampire taking on a whole raid and coming out on top, there is a serious issue with the game. PVE = / = PVP.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Pretty soon this game is going to become the movie "The Mist". DONT GO INTO THE MIST! RUN THE MIST IS COMING! CALL IN THE ARMY WITH THEIR FLAMETHROWERS!

Argurios

stylernaku wrote: »

So, we have shield bash spam everywhere, and vet 10's running about...

but the class which is hard to get due to getting a bite from a player, if they can bite due to 6 day cool down, for 30k in most places, or waiting for a rare possibly bugged spawn..

...is your problem?

Or is this more the Vets and shield bashes are getting combated by the vamps and possibly ww too.

Is that it hmmm?

See for quite a while it was "oh you'll get destroyed in pvp as a vamp blah blah", and when we adapted suddenly we are OP.

Mmhmm see what you did there, nice try.

yeah i saw what you did there too, which is talk absolute dog poo.

Before i continue, i would like to say its a very well written post by the OP which pretty much sums up a major issue in pvp right now.

Now Stylernaku dude, lets get this straight. Its not hard to get bitten at all, nor is that in anyway a disadvantage to make up for any of the skill line mechanics. Neither in fact are any of the bloodfiends bugged. They are extremely easy to find as long as you are on at the right time, which isn't hard to work out. So lets put that one to bed right now. I think the bite cooldown should be longer and the distance between spawn times of bloodfiends should also be excessive. Vampires should be rare, not sold on the open market like second hand cars.

Literally, everywhere i go, i see vampires. I would say at least half of all the high level VR's i see are vampires. Its just not good at all. And the price of a bite is dropping rapidly. I see it advertised for around 10-15k now, as more and more people gain the ability to bite.

Did Zenimax really make a game that they would like to see nearly every endgame player character as a vampire? I don't think so. However as the OP said, it seems to now be the 'go to' build for any budding pvper. Its ridiculous. I'd rather they just removed it from the game and brought it in with an expansion at a later date once they have actually thought about it. I mean who tested this crap?

Tonight in pvp. My group of 24 guys. 4 enemy arrived and spammed batswarm. Literally, unending batswarm. No way of stopping it, and every few seconds 2 or 3 people died. After a short time, we moved away and avoided it, but the fact remains. They had the ability to kill numerous people with no personal risk at all. Its absolutely baffling to me how anyone thinks this is not overpowered and in need of a fix, apart from preserving their 'iwin' button.

I don't see people running round with a shield killing 4 or 5 people in 10 seconds with bash. It doesn't happen. Nor do i see said person with shield then run away for over a minute with 10+ people attacking him while he takes no damage.

The fact is, on Auriel's bow, nearly every person on the leaderboard in the top 20 is using aoe farm groups to get all their many points. Usually involving bat swarm. I'm not having a go at them, because the mechanic is there for them to use, its not their fault and they want to be top i get it. It doesn't make the bat swarm any less broken though.

Nerf it, and nerf it hard.

Ok and please stop with the fighters guild crap. Unless you are one on one, and you know its a vampire, and he doesn't use mist form (chances?), it is pretty much as useless as anything else. You think people should give up 1 of the only 5 abilities they can slot on the off chance they meet a vampire before he uses mist form? Its actually having a negative effect, today i killed a few people who shot me with silver bolts despite the fact i wasn't a vampire. People are doing it now because they are so worried about them, and they know there is no real combat for them but getting that bolt in from the beginning. Its absolutely ridiculous. I'm sick already of trying to fight mist patches.

None of the disadvantages currently in play have any real bearing on fighting them. Especially with the thrice cursed mist form that could let them walk right out of a nuclear blast if they wanted to.

Bottom line, in my opinion:

- Bat swarm should cost the amount of a full ultimate at all times like any other skill line, and should cost more than average. Especially as it can heal as well.
- Mist form should give different benefits, maybe a stealth boost instead of the invulnerability 'take a swim in mount doom and emerge unscathed' ability that it currently is.
- Vampire disadvantages should become real disadvantages. Increase the fire damage to +100%. or make the +50% unresistable. Also bring in some kind of daylight penalties for later stages of vampirism, LIKE EVERY OTHER ELDER SCROLLS GAME BEFORE THIS ONE. They have night time bonuses so why not daytime penalties?

Oh and while i'm here, werewolves need a buff. They are absolute pants right now. I leveled one to 10 before getting it cured and paying 16k to get the skill points back, it was that bad. There is no comparison between vampire and werewolf, not even close.

ErilAq

I think the biggest problem with the growing amount of vampires is restriction. Basically it's conform and become vampire, or spec fire staff and Fighters guild. Any one build that forces a population to run certain specs and skills in a game that so values choice is a detriment and should be nerfed. Do fighters guild abilities work? Yes very well, so does fire. But making everyone roll firestaff DK or fighters guild isn't interesting. No other class/combo has this affect on the game.

lao

Jaxom wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

I say no vampires and werewolves in Cyrodil! I dont want to waste a skill slot for Silver Bolts!

You are exactly what the problem is. Refusing to adjust your build, like half the people in this thread. It's quite sad.

whats sad is that vamps are so good that they are so common that the need to adjust your build just to counter them even exists.

That is PvP in a nutshell buddy. Someone finds a build that works. 1000's copy it. People find a counter to Meta Build. Other player finds another build to counter, the counter build. 1000's copy that. Rinse repeat. That is every PvP scenario going back 10+ years. This won't change.

The problem here is that we haven't gotten to step 2 yet, which is find a counter build. Or worse yet, people are too damn lazy to figure out a counter build and refuse to adapt. This is exactly what is happening. Joe Shmoe who I originally quoted is the problem. They refuse to adapt and just *** and ***. "I don't want to waste a skill slot" is the wrong attitude to have. If that is what's going to win, then freaking change the skill out. If Silver Bolts sucks, then figure out a combination that does. You your damn brain instead of just copying someone else's build.

Granted, until they change the way that Ultimate reduction skills work, some combinations will be very difficult to counter but that is a problem of Ultimate gains and reductions and has nothing to do with the skill itself. I shouldn't be able to spam any Ultimate, period. That has nothing to do with Vampire's, Sorcs, DK, whomever.

/endrant

true but the difference is that this game was made so ppl with very tiny brains can somehow be competitive. thats why there are only 10 skill slots + 2ulti. therefor skills like silver bolts arent a viable counter cos yes they work vs vamps but are a total waste vs anyone not a vamp.

if this was an mmo from 10 years ago where ud have a real quickbar that can easily fit 40-50 skills and more id agree with you. but the way it is u have to use 10% of ur "quickbar" to counter 1 specific skillline.

when u limit players that much in terms of how many skills u can use as eso does then u cannot have a skillline that requires a specific hardcounter that is worthless vs everything else in the game. there should be softcounters for that like e.g. fire dmg but thats also limited to destru staff and DK´s and well 1 low dmg templar spell.

then again theres many many things wrong with this game. for example 5% chance to instakill undead (vamps) on silver bolts is the most absurd and ridiculous thing ive ever seen in an mmo. theres more than enough RNG in most mmos as it is. e.g. crits. then eso takes it on a whole different level with crits up to literally 500% of the normal dmg on some abilities and chance to instakill on silver bolts.

it will never be a remotely competitive game aslong as these "over the top" RNG factors arent removed. now alot of ppl (mainly rolepalyers) will come up with some braindead reasons to justify those RNG factors. none of them are valid. crits f.e. should be capped to 150% of the normal dmg of an ability or removed entirely. (preferably last but crits have been a part of mmos since forever so i guess its fine aslong as they are capped at a not totally ridiculous point. ANY chance to instakill in pvp however needs to go tho.

Lionsden

While @Baphomet didn't really address anything new the biggest complaint regarding Vampirism is the fact the ultimate cost can be so drastically reduced that you can spam Bat Swarm over and over.

As a Vampire Templar myself it is still incredibly easy enough to reduce the cost to where I can spam the ultimate. The biggest issue that Vampirism has is not it's abilities, it is not even the way they are combined with DK or Sorc, it is the fact that There is no penalty for being at Level 4 Vampirism.

Until that issue is addressed being able to drop your Ultimate cost down is going to exist and even a 6 person cap isn't going to stop the current DK/Batswarm spam as it will steal heal around 1800 life per cast.

A potentially easy fix is to change the health regen debuff to healing received. Thus a 75% nerf to incoming healing would be a significant enough deterrent that people would have to choose how much they wanted to balance cost reduction versus reduced healing. It would provide an actual real penalty to sitting at higher Vampirism levels, rather than the current situation where there is no reason to not stay at Vamp 4 all of the time.