Rapid gear decay

traigusb14_ESO2

Is it armor material tier based (cost and decay rate?)

My temp just moved to Eastmarch but is still using orch armor... no dwarven yet. his repairs seem to be the same as my sorc who just leveled into the first set of cotton. My linnen repairs were cheaper, but not by a huge amount.

SaibotLiu

Jeremy wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

The repair bill serves a valuable purpose as a gold sink. If you diminish this significantly, suddenly everyone is available to save large quantities of gold, and your economy goes to crap. .

This game's economy is already crap ^^

And to be honest - at least in respect to players who have not yet reached level 50 - it would probably be a more effective gold sink if they made it more affordable. Because in its current state, many players just neglect to repair at all and just wait it out until they get new armor.

Either one is fine, you're either purging gold from the economy, or they're using new armor rather than selling them. Either way something is being purged from circulation, items or gold. To stop flooding the market with either is the point.

Nobody can say at this point that the economy is crap, there is no way to observe it effectively. There is no worldwide AH, no one has no idea the average price something is selling for. Thats just an ignorant statement. In 3 months when things even off, then we'll know.

Cernow

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Nobody can say at this point that the economy is crap, there is no way to observe it effectively. There is no worldwide AH, no one has no idea the average price something is selling for. Thats just an ignorant statement. In 3 months when things even off, then we'll know.

And how exactly will we know any more in 3 months time than we already know now? As you say, there's no global AH. Items being sold will vary in price from trade guild to trade guild, from zone instance to zone instance. There's absolutely no way anyone can get an overview now, and there won't be in three months, because there is no centralized trade system.

There are arguments for and against a global AH, but I feel that the positives of having one outweigh the negatives. A global AH normalizes prices, especially on a megaserver. With a traditional server model, mega rich players can essentially grief the AH by buying everything up and re-listing it at inflated prices. On a megaserver this is much harder to do, so prices will tend to normalize and be less volatile. Personally I'd prefer to be able to sell things I craft reliably via an AH than have to hawk them around various trade guilds (I don't consider zone chat even an option - it amazes me there's not an official trade channel to take the pressure off of zone chat).

Colbane

I cancelled today. I'll resub if they fix some of these issues (bots, bugs, gear decay)...

gcalex5

Colbane wrote: »

I cancelled today. I'll resub if they fix some of these issues (bots, bugs, gear decay)...

see ya after another week or two of patches then lol

SaibotLiu

Cernow wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Nobody can say at this point that the economy is crap, there is no way to observe it effectively. There is no worldwide AH, no one has no idea the average price something is selling for. Thats just an ignorant statement. In 3 months when things even off, then we'll know.

And how exactly will we know any more in 3 months time than we already know now?

Player education and experience. People act like this is the first game not to have a centralized market place. Experience in past game shows that the first couple of months on a game with only localized trade leads to wildly varying prices. The general populace, once learning which items are most valuable and which are not, will eventually set the market and decide how much a given item is worth. If you're paying more than market value at that point, you'd have only your own ignorance to blame.

The SWG economy and crafting system was infinitely more complex than ESO's, and the initial phase infinitely more chaotic. In a short time, game mechanics were worked out, and value was established for every useful item. It will be no different in this game.

Jirki88

SaibotLiu wrote: »

This is when MMO's start to suck, if players get listened to when it comes to obstacles being too hard. Im the opposite, if I see a trend develop and they start making the game easier, I know I'll be a couple of steps closer to quitting this game. The repair bill serves a valuable purpose as a gold sink. If you diminish this significantly, suddenly everyone is available to save large quantities of gold, and your economy goes to crap. Im already able to save plenty of cash to do whatever I want, now when not so savvy players are able to save, it only amplifies what the more industrious players are able to do, then you have a problem because now those players whinging about repair costs before cant afford the elevated prices due to inflation. So really, bad players are just bad, if you balance the game around them, your game will be bad. Dont do that.

No offense to anyone intended, Ive just seen this happen dozen of times in an MMO, this post is nothing if not right on cue. For once lets just try to play smarter instead of begging for things to be easier. Its better for everyone.

Why are you talking about repair bills as a "gold sink" when they're on a level where no one actually spend money on repairing? It's not a "gold sink" if no gold is sunk into it. And as it stands, with ridiculously fast loss of durability from regular asswhopping of mobs... No one pays the repair bills. Easier to just put on whatever whites drop from whatever mobs as the armour breaks.

One golden rule of gold sinks - they need to be something people will actually sink gold into. This isn't it.

SaibotLiu

Jirki88 wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

This is when MMO's start to suck, if players get listened to when it comes to obstacles being too hard. Im the opposite, if I see a trend develop and they start making the game easier, I know I'll be a couple of steps closer to quitting this game. The repair bill serves a valuable purpose as a gold sink. If you diminish this significantly, suddenly everyone is available to save large quantities of gold, and your economy goes to crap. Im already able to save plenty of cash to do whatever I want, now when not so savvy players are able to save, it only amplifies what the more industrious players are able to do, then you have a problem because now those players whinging about repair costs before cant afford the elevated prices due to inflation. So really, bad players are just bad, if you balance the game around them, your game will be bad. Dont do that.

No offense to anyone intended, Ive just seen this happen dozen of times in an MMO, this post is nothing if not right on cue. For once lets just try to play smarter instead of begging for things to be easier. Its better for everyone.

Why are you talking about repair bills as a "gold sink" when they're on a level where no one actually spend money on repairing?

Why are you talking like you have profound insight on the way every player on the game plays? You dont, so this is a pointless post.

I repair items all the time, if they're worth keeping for any length of time. You may be level 20 and be happy wearing white items all the time, that doesnt apply to everyone.

Yeah trading up purple items for white because it costs 200 to repair it. Sounds pro.

Sinoby

I don't think people are against repair costs, and more against the speed the gear degrades at. It seems more like a bug at times. E.g. yesterday after playing for 3 hours my repair cost was only 900g, while on other day it is 900g per hour. And my play style is not that different, I generally don't ever die in pve.

vyal

Just so people are aware... gear is currently decaying/being damaged even if you take no damage in combat.

Clearly, if this is not a bug, it should be.

Also, repair costs of 1k per hour is normal for me since level 43. I fight constantly. That's fun. 1k/hr in repair costs? Not fun!

It is rapidly approaching the point where I will not be able to afford to adventure unless I start selling everything, rather than deconstructing. If this is working as intended, the developers don't understand what "fun" is.

EDIT: Oh, and yeah, I don't die.

Jirki88

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Jirki88 wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

This is when MMO's start to suck, if players get listened to when it comes to obstacles being too hard. Im the opposite, if I see a trend develop and they start making the game easier, I know I'll be a couple of steps closer to quitting this game. The repair bill serves a valuable purpose as a gold sink. If you diminish this significantly, suddenly everyone is available to save large quantities of gold, and your economy goes to crap. Im already able to save plenty of cash to do whatever I want, now when not so savvy players are able to save, it only amplifies what the more industrious players are able to do, then you have a problem because now those players whinging about repair costs before cant afford the elevated prices due to inflation. So really, bad players are just bad, if you balance the game around them, your game will be bad. Dont do that.

No offense to anyone intended, Ive just seen this happen dozen of times in an MMO, this post is nothing if not right on cue. For once lets just try to play smarter instead of begging for things to be easier. Its better for everyone.

Why are you talking about repair bills as a "gold sink" when they're on a level where no one actually spend money on repairing?

Why are you talking like you have profound insight on the way every player on the game plays? You dont, so this is a pointless post.

I repair items all the time, if they're worth keeping for any length of time. You may be level 20 and be happy wearing white items all the time, that doesnt apply to everyone.

Yeah trading up purple items for white because it costs 200 to repair it. Sounds pro.

200 gold? Play for an hour without dying and you're more like looking at 2000. It's not worth it until you reach somewhere you're not easily going to be able to upgrade gear. In PvE, the difference between blue armour and white armour is negligible, especially considering the rate of decay. And no, I'm not lvl 20, I'm lvl 36 currently. My armour never go higher than whatever I find as drops, usually white and green with the odd blue, and it lasts until it's 0%, then it's replaced by whatever happens to drop. Why strive for purple or better items you'd have to repair all the time when white and easily replaced ones work just as well?

shadoshryke

Mauzi wrote: »

Knowing to make money or not doesn't change the fact that things are not fair here for everyone. Especially in a game that's marketed as "play the way you want".

Lets clarify I point here. It is not "play the way you want". Let me quote the specific info from the advertisments.

Play the Way You Like
With an enhanced Elder Scrolls combat system, engage in real-time targeting and strategic attacks and blocks. Use any weapon or wear any armor at any time, no matter what type of character you play and develop your own style with deep character customization and abilities

So, you are converting and interpreting for your own point, maybe without realizing it. The idea is not so much a "any way you want". ESO would not be an TES based game if it was just a clone of every other game that was trying to please every MMO baseline or player. It has to keep a personality that is still TES based.

While I do agree that there are wear/tear figures that are overboard even for reasonable realism in this game, there is a balance in a game that every character I am running can solo the same areas. I only need to adjust tactics and strategies to there abilities.

I don't like that fact that, with the issues and glitches in the game (including falling through the floor in buildings more than once), that using "/stuck" works the same as a "/sepaku" in other games, and damages my armor. At least until the regular clipping issues or character locked up issues are corrected for 95% of the gaming time, no gear damage and an immediate flip to the closest waypoint should be set for "/stuck" use.

Now, if they removed too much of the gear damage factor, it would make a least one gear trait rather unnecessary, and they may do that in the future. Until then, we make money by collecting cheap resources and crafting a bunch of low resource cost items for selling between quest points/dungeons. This can give you a quick 200-1k on a regular basis if need be. Quick 20 basic steel daggers sell for 15 each and I have 300 made for the sale to the crafting merchant next to the crafting point. Just doing quest and solo dungeons with two characters and they never seem to not be able to repair their gear for more than 30 min of game time max.

SaibotLiu

Jirki88 wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Jirki88 wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

This is when MMO's start to suck, if players get listened to when it comes to obstacles being too hard. Im the opposite, if I see a trend develop and they start making the game easier, I know I'll be a couple of steps closer to quitting this game. The repair bill serves a valuable purpose as a gold sink. If you diminish this significantly, suddenly everyone is available to save large quantities of gold, and your economy goes to crap. Im already able to save plenty of cash to do whatever I want, now when not so savvy players are able to save, it only amplifies what the more industrious players are able to do, then you have a problem because now those players whinging about repair costs before cant afford the elevated prices due to inflation. So really, bad players are just bad, if you balance the game around them, your game will be bad. Dont do that.

No offense to anyone intended, Ive just seen this happen dozen of times in an MMO, this post is nothing if not right on cue. For once lets just try to play smarter instead of begging for things to be easier. Its better for everyone.

Why are you talking about repair bills as a "gold sink" when they're on a level where no one actually spend money on repairing?

Why are you talking like you have profound insight on the way every player on the game plays? You dont, so this is a pointless post.

I repair items all the time, if they're worth keeping for any length of time. You may be level 20 and be happy wearing white items all the time, that doesnt apply to everyone.

Yeah trading up purple items for white because it costs 200 to repair it. Sounds pro.

200 gold? Play for an hour without dying and you're more like looking at 2000. It's not worth it until you reach somewhere you're not easily going to be able to upgrade gear. In PvE, the difference between blue armour and white armour is negligible, especially considering the rate of decay. And no, I'm not lvl 20, I'm lvl 36 currently. My armour never go higher than whatever I find as drops, usually white and green with the odd blue, and it lasts until it's 0%, then it's replaced by whatever happens to drop. Why strive for purple or better items you'd have to repair all the time when white and easily replaced ones work just as well?

A single item does not cost 2000 gold to repair. I was clearly talking about a single items repair cost, not an entire set.

Im level 46 and I can say Ive never recieved a 2000 repair bill, you're doing something horribly wrong. Do you just stand there and let mobs beat on you constantly? Do you have no stuns or CC in your build? If you dont then that's your fault, and its very important on this game to succeed. Personally I have no idea how decay is calculated, but I can say the numbers you're quoting are off. I've worn both heavy and medium armor, I play sword and board and bow, and have approached nothing like that.

High grade items are just like anything else in the game, a luxury. It is not required that I wear a certain grade of item to destroy trash mobs, I could do so in my underwear. You clearly do not want to spend any in game cash on having even marginal gear. Im not seeing the problem. The problem is you assuming everyone is playing the game like you, that's just stupid.

Madia

I don't repair. I just craft a new white set, and mix with the odd drop or quest reward.

The state of armor decay is sad really, as it really deters me from upgrading/improving my crafted items. I mean, who wants to spend the rare upgrade components on items that decay at this insane rate?

Brakkar

I noticed this only recently, when I was clearing a vr public dungeon, a really long one. I missed a quest inside and had to clear everything again so I stayed inside for over an hour. My gear durability dropped below 20%. As far as I know, at least a well informed friend told me that, this mechanics is supposed to prevent aoe botting in dungeons and it's working as intended.
After that, I avoided doing long runs in public dungeons and high durability loss stopped instantly.

starkerealm

Brakkar wrote: »

I noticed this only recently, when I was clearing a vr public dungeon, a really long one. I missed a quest inside and had to clear everything again so I stayed inside for over an hour. My gear durability dropped below 20%. As far as I know, at least a well informed friend told me that, this mechanics is supposed to prevent aoe botting in dungeons and it's working as intended.
After that, I avoided doing long runs in public dungeons and high durability loss stopped instantly.

If your friend is correct then whoever implemented it is... severely misguided about what's happening in game. The bots who are running these dungeons are doing them in, literally, prison rags with starter weapons. Their handlers aren't bothering to equip them with gear. And I can't imagine that they're bothering to repair damaged gear on bots; they can't even be bothered to move the bots out of the dungeon to vendor items.

This would be a punitive action against the bots that literally only affects legitimate players and farmers.

The bots are using basic attacks they picked up in the tutorial, and nothing else. If they want to fight this then they need to create a fatigue debuff that starts applying after 30 or 50 minutes and reduces the character's stamina and magicka by 5% every five or ten minutes, until the character literally can't use abilities or sprint. And is then removed by leaving the delve.

Kililin

Jirki88 wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

This is when MMO's start to suck, if players get listened to when it comes to obstacles being too hard. Im the opposite, if I see a trend develop and they start making the game easier, I know I'll be a couple of steps closer to quitting this game. The repair bill serves a valuable purpose as a gold sink. If you diminish this significantly, suddenly everyone is available to save large quantities of gold, and your economy goes to crap. Im already able to save plenty of cash to do whatever I want, now when not so savvy players are able to save, it only amplifies what the more industrious players are able to do, then you have a problem because now those players whinging about repair costs before cant afford the elevated prices due to inflation. So really, bad players are just bad, if you balance the game around them, your game will be bad. Dont do that.

No offense to anyone intended, Ive just seen this happen dozen of times in an MMO, this post is nothing if not right on cue. For once lets just try to play smarter instead of begging for things to be easier. Its better for everyone.

Why are you talking about repair bills as a "gold sink" when they're on a level where no one actually spend money on repairing? It's not a "gold sink" if no gold is sunk into it. And as it stands, with ridiculously fast loss of durability from regular asswhopping of mobs... No one pays the repair bills. Easier to just put on whatever whites drop from whatever mobs as the armour breaks.

One golden rule of gold sinks - they need to be something people will actually sink gold into. This isn't it.

It is a gold sink, i do not think you are going to replace your VR items with white drops. Also i dont see you trashing your legendarys because they need repair.

Gold Sinks are not designed to remove money from the low-level range, it does not really matter to the economy what you do with your 10.000 gold, what matters is how you remove gold from max level players.

That said, i believe it will not be enough, what you have you will keep forever.
Repair costs will just be an annoyance, maybe some hardcore pve raiders will have to farm for progression/ranking, but thats it.

aipex8_ESO

It does seem that a change happened. My gear is deteriorating very rapidly when I'm just out exploring and not dying. It was not doing this a couple of days ago, my gear would almost always be 100-90% after questing and exploring for hours. Bug? I hope so. I don't mind paying for dying, but if my armor is down to 50% from just walking around, that's not right.

TheKing1nYellow

I spent about 5 hours cruising around Khenarthi's Roost with my lvl 20 NB just opening chests and harvesting mats. No combat at all, and had my gear run down to 0 durability. The damage must be tied to gaining xp.

LadyDestiny

I noticed this yesterday after doing an anchor. Usually runs around 150 to 200g on my level 34 gear, but yesterday it cost me over 800g after one run and doing nothing else? That cannot be right. Hope they fix this or I am going to stay broke. Needless to say, I think they need to make adjustments on the cost of several things really. Repair bills, COD, re-spec, inventory and horse feed, etc. I mean seriously, it is not realistic. I know it is a fantasy game, but still some costs are just way too much, especially for the lower level players. I think the scaling is just a little bit off and could use some improvement.

Tetrasoli

In addition to the astoundingly ridiculous issue of mudcrab farming wrecking plate mail, people should also be asking....

Why can a clothier repair my metal armor, but I can't? And before you say that I can buy a repair kit, let's think about the implications of being a level 20 blacksmith, able to craft legendary items, who is unable to make simple repairs to his own gear without visiting Patty the quilt-maker back in town. A little regressive for an MMO, don't you think? I should be able to use a bar or two of level-appropriate metal and repair my own freakin' armor.

netsike

Same here, after a few quests its under 50% and then it goes down almost until 0%...my bills are sometimes around 2K, i really can't save much money like this...

Jeremy

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

The repair bill serves a valuable purpose as a gold sink. If you diminish this significantly, suddenly everyone is available to save large quantities of gold, and your economy goes to crap. .

This game's economy is already crap ^^

And to be honest - at least in respect to players who have not yet reached level 50 - it would probably be a more effective gold sink if they made it more affordable. Because in its current state, many players just neglect to repair at all and just wait it out until they get new armor.

Either one is fine, you're either purging gold from the economy, or they're using new armor rather than selling them. Either way something is being purged from circulation, items or gold. To stop flooding the market with either is the point.

Nobody can say at this point that the economy is crap, there is no way to observe it effectively. There is no worldwide AH, no one has no idea the average price something is selling for. Thats just an ignorant statement. In 3 months when things even off, then we'll know.

The economy is crap Saibo. I don't have to wait 3 months to see that. And these extremely high repair bills have done nothing to prevent it.

And you are being really optimistic to think it's going to all get better in 3 months unless some significant changes are put in place. I would say naïve. But I guess in a couple of months we'll see which of us is right ^^

As far as your purging old armor from circulation comment - I don't understand what you mean.

Players would likely be putting on new armor anyway, with or without these insane repair bills. The only difference being they don't bother repairing their current armor before they put on new ones because it's just not worth it many times. And that means less gold into the sink. Not more.

knaveofengland

use range weapons will help towards repair bills

burner2007b16_ESO

Nothing mentioned in patch/hotfix, gear decay seems to be increased.
Guess running naked/white is the only option !

/gearmelts

SantieClaws

I get messages that my equipment is damaged when I am crafting, walking about, using the bank - actually I don't think I have ever seen one of these messages when fighting.

Nox_Aeterna

Hehe , i dont even repair my gear mate , if it is broken , it is broken , i dont care.

Never had problems to progress in the game totally broken :P. Atleast till lvl 47 , people do say vet ranks are much harder.

Juponen

starkerealm wrote: »

If you're right, and the increased deterioration is intended behavior, to counter the goldsellers, I'm done. When it was a soft penalty for death, I was fine with that. But, as a penalty for going out and doing quests? If I'm just going to get punished for playing the game, why am I playing it?

Counter goldsellers? No. Rather it makes buying gold more and more attractive as the pitifull gold drops are eaten by repairs. Somebody asked what use is gold in this game. Now we know, and it reminds me of a tinfoilhat post speculating on link between goldsellers and the company.

Cherryblossom

SaibotLiu wrote: »

And that was exactly my point, if the people in charge give into this kind of talk, this game goes the way so many of the ones before it has. Watered down, trivial, lacking all suitable challenge.

I find it hard to believe this is a bug, not seen many!

As a nightblade, I dual wield or Bow. after an hour of play where I'd either backstabbed 1 hit killed a Mob or shot at distance mobs not getting hit once, and I mean never being hit by a mob my gear has dropped 20 points WTF is going on!

I used to have Repair addon I have turned this off now, as I now craft new gear when mine hit's 0. This is a crap system and needs to be looked at.

I understand the need for gold sinks, but currently I refuse to believe this is working as intended. I have played games where the cost of repairs started to become detrimental to doing content, who is going to go to a dungeon where they may earn 1.5k where they are also going to have a 2k repair bill. No one wants to grind for an hour so they can do the content which is enjoyable.

Anarchos404

So.. I see some dupers are in the thread already... "I don't care about your repair bills, I duped things and have auto-repair addons!!! L2P".

I, we... are not angry about durability decay in general, but we are bedazzled about the rate it is happening at.
The whole logic that I am to expect my gear to require a FULL repair after 30mins of questing/killing mobs without actually dying myself, is just plainly dumb.
Repair bills being a gold sink? Come on... give me a break.

Durability loss is a penalty from dying and to some extent wear and tear from normal actions, but when the normal usage exceeds the death penalty by a long shot, something is wrong.

I did level 44-->45 naked some days ago... it was fine, but might have looked stupid

In before, repair bills makes the game none-trivial/challenging and elitist compared to other games that are for everyone and their dog.
NO... just no.