Where is the fun, skill or challenge in this?

TheGrandAlliance

...unlike the posters above I do agree in theory with the OP:

"Why do we fight?"

Most of the "hard core" PvPers are just E-Sports people who continue to believe playing video games are a "sport" and as a result completely ruin any story behind any PvP combat. Rather it becomes a contest of "who's reproductive organs are bigger then the others" battle.

It is true that vets need to be on their own servers because normal players don't have a chance. Even groups of players have troubles. This game is new so therefore the arms race is on; and over time more of the player base will be closer in lvl, but it is true that for now the "bigger reproductive organs" win out.


In terms of rewards... the stuff you get does suck but it is more of a playstyle then in-game rewards. Indeed however most of the system is still broken nonetheless...

TheGrandAlliance

Magischzwei wrote: »

It should not be possible for high level players to farm lowies.

Just remove Cryodil already and add some BGs with level instancing.

That would /epicfail the game. Reason people stick around is because, in theory, the shear size of PvP in this game makes it better then any other large scale MMORPG on market.

Magischzwei

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Magischzwei wrote: »

It should not be possible for high level players to farm lowies.

Just remove Cryodil already and add some BGs with level instancing.

That would /epicfail the game. Reason people stick around is because, in theory, the shear size of PvP in this game makes it better then any other large scale MMORPG on market.

except when it doesn't because most of the people dont like to feel like they are having zero impact on the scene. The pvp is clunky, unfair and unrewarding atm.

TheGrandAlliance

Magischzwei wrote: »

except when it doesn't because most of the people dont like to feel like they are having zero impact on the scene. The pvp is clunky, unfair and unrewarding atm.

Yes... but I could say the same for every other MMORPG out there. This is a relative comparision now: WoW, GW2, they all fail to this respect. Do some of these games give me loot? Yes. But do we play games for Loot? IDK hopefully not.

TheFio

Sounds like someone wants this game to be a wow clone.

Magischzwei

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Magischzwei wrote: »

except when it doesn't because most of the people dont like to feel like they are having zero impact on the scene. The pvp is clunky, unfair and unrewarding atm.

Yes... but I could say the same for every other MMORPG out there. This is a relative comparision now: WoW, GW2, they all fail to this respect. Do some of these games give me loot? Yes. But do we play games for Loot? IDK hopefully not.

Because you went there and cite wow as comparison, there are 10v10, 5v5, 15v15, 2v2, 3v3, 40v40 and 20v20 modes with level brackets in there.

The idea of bracketing stuff of to level categorys is however not a wow-only thing, nearly every single mmo has done it for its pvp, indicating that the system has some merit. Wanting everything different just because its ESO is just contrarianism. This game has some serious potential, now act on it.

TheGrandAlliance

Magischzwei wrote: »

[q
The idea of bracketing stuff of to level categorys is however not a wow-only thing, nearly every single mmo has done it for its pvp, indicating that the system has some merit. Wanting everything different just because its ESO is just contrarianism. This game has some serious potential, now act on it.

...and WoW has persistant, large scale, objective capture-able PvP?


I think not. The comparison would be to GW2's WvW mode. You, however apparently want 15 minute (or whatever) battles that go nowhere, and mean nothing, such as WoW's. You cannot sub-bracket every lvl range or such combat would have no meaning.

Now... you can have a "high end" server and a "new" server, as appears to be future plans for this game. But you cannot have 5 lvl range PvP... doesn't even make sense here.

Magischzwei

Which is exactly why my suggestion was to remove Cryodil alltogether and refocus on Battleground based PvP.

Gaudrath

Magischzwei wrote: »

Which is exactly why my suggestion was to remove Cryodil alltogether and refocus on Battleground based PvP.

What? You know, this is probably the first time I'll type this, but you deserve it...

Go back to WoW.

YuccaPalm

Gaudrath wrote: »

Magischzwei wrote: »

Which is exactly why my suggestion was to remove Cryodil alltogether and refocus on Battleground based PvP.

What? You know, this is probably the first time I'll type this, but you deserve it...

Go back to WoW.

Omg always those WoW obsessed nerds like you xD. I think they shouldn't remove Cyrodiil but hes right that this game needs other forms of PvP.

NombreDeLaBeast

Would be nice to see some arenas or dueling. anything else is kinda meh.

Harakh

It is to early to think about such things, yesterday we get killed by a V10 player we were a Group of 3 people level 40 but i dont care it is like in life someone is allways better if you do not saw him yet i am sure he or she will come

Jonnymorrow

Magischzwei wrote: »

It should not be possible for high level players to farm lowies.

Just remove Cryodil already and add some BGs with level instancing.

You are joking right... Pfftt I would certainly quit if that happened. Instanced pvp is shite. Swtor BGs showed that. I haven't played a single pvp mmo that did that right. AvA is far better and yes people at the level cap should be able to take out lower levelled players 1v1

Perhaps low levels should try leveling up instead of crying on the forums.

Magischzwei

Jonnymorrow wrote: »

Magischzwei wrote: »

It should not be possible for high level players to farm lowies.

Just remove Cryodil already and add some BGs with level instancing.

You are joking right... Pfftt I would certainly quit if that happened. Instanced pvp is shite. Swtor BGs showed that. I haven't played a single pvp mmo that did that right. AvA is far better and yes people at the level cap should be able to take out lower levelled players 1v1

Perhaps low levels should try leveling up instead of crying on the forums.

Perhaps pvp shouldn't be only for max level characters.

gloryhammer

My experience as level 15 so far:

• be an insignificant part of a zerg party with a perceived contribution of 0.
• leave the herd and get instakilled by a level 50 with not even the slightest chance to fight back
• become a sneaking ganker waiting in a bush for another low level player rushing to join something

Did the first, but it gets boring after 1,2 hours.
Tried the second - skill does not matter. Fight ends in 3 secs. Respawn. Run back 5 min.
Don't like doing the third cause it ruins other players day who just spent their last 5 min running to a battle only to have to do it again. And the funny thing is - I kill anyone I open first on.. They don't have a chance to turn the fight


It seems pretty pointless to pvp below 50 when there is such a gap. Doing sieges as a low level once in a while is fun, but not on a regular basis.

Imo if they even out the level gap and provide objectives where even low levels can be active contributors will be much more fun for many players.
As a casual player I don't expect to be 50 before Christmas and if it stays like this that's when I'll start pvping on regular basis.

tengri

For the casual player there is one and one reason only to go to Cryodil: collect the Skyshards. Get in during off-peak hours, grab those you can and get out again.
Apart from that nothing there has any value at all for you.

The sooner ppl realize this the better for their gaming experience - and for the forums. Stop complaining about PvP if you are not a level 50+ powergamer: your opinion does not matter and you do not matter either.
And even if you are a VR100 and think you are entitled to complain: better L2P first, milk-drinker.

sSolutionSs

Magischzwei wrote: »

Random mass zergs with V5+ people running around 2 shotting everyone else while themselfes beeing unkillable.

This is Really A joke I'm sure they are all having.

this must be their plan to keep their subscriber base long term.

What about the Pvp only Players that want to level?

Is the only option in eso "pvp" as a non vet to run with large Groups? How ridiculous.

I agree. if you even die in a large group as a NON vet running back will take 5-10 min to your large group to only get ganked by 1 Vet with no chance to fight back and possibly repeat for 2-3times and there goes 30 min of not really fighting or gaining xp. just a bunch of wasted time.

Its like once you join cyrodiil before vet rank its like they want to remind you to go back to qusting, Pve, killing computers, and story mode.. /yawn.

thx guys really frustrating btw..

Makes me wonder when this game will be F2p and micro-transaction-ed out like they did to that swtor. I hope this isnt likley

Valthorian1914

Magischzwei wrote: »

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

except when it doesn't because most of the people dont like to feel like they are having zero impact on the scene. The pvp is clunky, unfair and unrewarding atm.

Most people? Really? Most people? Aside from you and maybe two others on this waste of a thread, I would have to say you are in the minority. More stuff on screen to data read and smaller scale bgs? Buddy hate to break it to you, this is not the game for you. Simple as that. And, no, not every game needs to be for you. You don't like it, get off and play something else.

Damn babies.

Censorious

OK there are some people who this game doesn't suit.

Personally, I'm having fun. The action is far from zerg-like, admittedly there's strength in numbers but most fights turn into skirmish actions with small groups of 4 or 5 fighting each other around the flanks.
It's nothing like the stacked zergs of GW2.

I find that at lvl 25 right now, I can hold my own against a single player. Most of them are around my level anyway and the odd lvl50 doesn't have so much advantage I can't kill him with luck and judgement. It's quite well balanced.

I agree camps are a) too expensive b) too fragile but I don't really want dead players spawning right back in my face either. It ain't broke. Fixing not required.

Magischzwei

Censorious wrote: »

OK there are some people who this game doesn't suit.

Personally, I'm having fun. The action is far from zerg-like, admittedly there's strength in numbers but most fights turn into skirmish actions with small groups of 4 or 5 fighting each other around the flanks.
It's nothing like the stacked zergs of GW2.

I find that at lvl 25 right now, I can hold my own against a single player. Most of them are around my level anyway and the odd lvl50 doesn't have so much advantage I can't kill him with luck and judgement. It's quite well balanced.

I agree camps are a) too expensive b) too fragile but I don't really want dead players spawning right back in my face either. It ain't broke. Fixing not required.

You are right. Fixing is not required. Instead, remove it completly.
Don't waste development budget on trashy npc and siege fights and get to the actual issues of the game.

Zargorius

Magischzwei wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

OK there are some people who this game doesn't suit.

Personally, I'm having fun. The action is far from zerg-like, admittedly there's strength in numbers but most fights turn into skirmish actions with small groups of 4 or 5 fighting each other around the flanks.
It's nothing like the stacked zergs of GW2.

I find that at lvl 25 right now, I can hold my own against a single player. Most of them are around my level anyway and the odd lvl50 doesn't have so much advantage I can't kill him with luck and judgement. It's quite well balanced.

I agree camps are a) too expensive b) too fragile but I don't really want dead players spawning right back in my face either. It ain't broke. Fixing not required.

You are right. Fixing is not required. Instead, remove it completly.
Don't waste development budget on trashy npc and siege fights and get to the actual issues of the game.

This is never gonna happen as Cyrodiil is one of the strongest points of the game and removing it will spell its death sentence.
I strongly suggest you to finish your free month and go trolling somewhere else.

sSolutionSs

This is a New MMORPG, Which is a living ever changing game genre, I dont think you can say just yet "maybe this game isnt for you" when there are alot of changes that are going to be made based on criticism or complaining like this.

Thats how mmos seem to change.. People QQ things change. then More People QQ. and so on and so on.. Im curious to see these changes during this cycle.

The Combat system in Eso is ideal and feels fun to play! I do believe there are some areas that they missed the boat and or need to fix.

Atony

Think OP just can't handle the fact the game isn't for him. Not a bad thing at all you can't please everybody but I agree with Censorious and Valthorian in that the amount of whiners seem to be in the minority.

I'm sure as hell having fun and I'm level 17. I'm not hardcore PvP'ing YET as I plan on enjoying the PvE and story on the road to level 50 but when I get the itch to the PvP I'm more than satisfied with what is offered. Yea if I solo I get dropped fast but I also don't sneak around so that's my own fault. I look to link up with small to medium roaming groups or just go to a siege battle and have fun. That's what this game is about isn't it? And if you're not having fun than maybe you should find something else.

I do think the PvP needs polishing but it's just that: Polishing. Not a total revamp of everything when for the most part the system works and majority of players are content with it.

Magischzwei

Topics in the forums is how you drive change. And in my opinion, and thats all it can really be, either the game will change to suit a more variable audience better or die off and go p2w after a while.

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO

Magischzwei wrote: »

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Magischzwei wrote: »

It should not be possible for high level players to farm lowies.

Just remove Cryodil already and add some BGs with level instancing.

That would /epicfail the game. Reason people stick around is because, in theory, the shear size of PvP in this game makes it better then any other large scale MMORPG on market.

except when it doesn't because most of the people dont like to feel like they are having zero impact on the scene. The pvp is clunky, unfair and unrewarding atm.

And by most people you mean you. I am having a blast and can definitely influence the battle, i'm level 22 btw.

Harakh

@Magischzwei
PvP is unfair yes, but every open PvP or RvR PvP is unfair, the thrill is how can you react on this, even an unfair fight can be satisfying, if you will know you have tried as hard as you can, and maybe you can win this, if not you know you were close to the win, with an disadvantage, thats a win for my moral .

PvP is at the moment unrewarding,besides of the 50 Skillpoint you can get from it, but i think ZoS will improve the rewards in AvA it just needs time.

chrisub17_ESO104

For those of us in guilds who are here mainly for the pvp, there is a LOT of fun, skill, and challenge.

And to those that said it's just all about epeen, you have no clue what it takes to bring together 30 strangers from around the internet and create an organized team that can steamroll your opponent day in and day out. Yes it's just a game, but there is a fairly high amount of organization, leadership, and skill required to excel as a team.

And it's not an elitist thing either. I know the guild I am in has made a name for itself in every game we have been in, and our moto is we take anyone willing to learn (and level up), and we train them.

Trashing the game or trashing other people simply because of your own failure, isn't going to get you anywhere. My suggestion is to either admit that this game was not designed for you, or actually go level up and join a guild where you might have a chance of having a really good time like a lot of us are.

Even if there were no veteran ranks and everyone was the same level with the same gear, you would probably still get steamrolled by those of us who play this game competitively. You can't expect to excel in something you aren't willing to put any time and effort into.

tawok

TheFio wrote: »

Sounds like someone wants this game to be a wow clone.

Reply Generator (More than one allowed):

[ ] Beta is not for {x} !
[ ] Learn to Play
[ ] Game has only been out for {x}
[X] Go back to WoW!
[ ] You didn't read my post/your reading comprehension sucks
[ ] I'm having fun, you must be an idiot if you're not
[ ] Irrelevant Rant
[ ] I agree!
[ ] Actual Advice (option disabled)

Yevon

If you do not like getting ganked by those that have earned a higher level than you, then you should obtain a higher level. Our guild has several lower level players and they have been incredibly helpful in our conquest of Cyrodiil.

beravinprb19_ESO

I could forgive most of the PvP issues if it did not take 10 minutes just to get back in the fight. At any rate, regardless of how you lot feel about the OP and the other people who disagree with you, the reality is that, while fun, the game does have some problems. Just a few examples (and please keep in mind, these are mostly my opinions):

1. Towers around farms, mines and lumbermills might as well be the new keeps. There is only one way to get in, and a small group of players can easily hold it with a few oils. This happens quite often and is starting to get more than a little out of hand.

2. The rewards are a joke. I can craft better stuff at V1 than some of the epic PvP stuff at V10. Not to mention how much everything costs. 600k alliance points for a mediocre piece of armour? No thanks. The PvP economy leaves a great deal to be desired.

3. The experience gain is very low for most people. I think I have leveled once in PvP, if that, over several hours of play. As a V1 player, my experience bar barely moves at all after a session. I feel like I am forced to PvE to make any character progression.

4. Stop sending me useless greens in the mail. Either give me something useful or stop wasting my time. How about some crafting materials? A siege weapon? A blue piece of equipment? Some gold? A forward camp? Anything that actually has value?

5. The population imbalance needed to be dealt with some time ago. We have about 10 campaigns, and barely any of them have more than 1 bar of population for any alliance. I want campaigns with people in them, not the barren wastelands we have now.

6. Magicka builds seem to be far stronger than stamina builds. Ironically, most stamina builds are melee, which is enough of a disadvantage already. Heck, our main resource is usually needed for rolls, stun breaks, sneaking, blocking, sprinting, etc...

I could go on. The point is, while it is certainly enjoyable, I can't help but agree with the OP to some extent. Having fun does not mean the game is without issues. Please stop giving him such a hard time, for while you may not agree with him, that does not make him wrong. While it is quite enjoyable to play, it also has a lot of room for improvement.