Sorc pet style- is noone listening to us

Pelanora · October 19

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1g6rwuq/new_summon_twilight_style_incoming/

This makes it WORSE zos..... how have you missed everything we have been saying....

Syldras · October 19

Wait until we get a huge white one (at least double the normal size), sparkling, adorned with neon flowers, exploding in a huge golden flash every 3 seconds, in 2 years or so

SilverBride · October 19

I really wish they would stop with the bright flashy loud cartoony effects.

davidtk · October 19

Syldras wrote: »

Wait until we get a huge white one (at least double the normal size), sparkling, adorned with neon flowers, exploding in a huge golden flash every 3 seconds, in 2 years or so

I want it!!!!!!!!!

Ok, lets be serious. It would be enough for me if she could at least sit down like she can in Apocrypha.

Syldras · October 19

davidtk wrote: »

It would be enough for me if she could at least sit down like she can in Apocrypha.

Yes. And not even just in Apocrypha, there's already one in the base game that sits (somewhere in a Bosmer zone).

colossalvoids · October 19

The whole skill style system seems pretty tone deaf, just simple recolours opacity changes, seems like actually altering appearances are probably reserved for premium later (if ever?)

fizzylu · October 19

Yeah, they really missed the mark with this. Not that I'm surprised considering I feel like Zenimax rarely even gets near it at this point....

Estin · October 19

The worst part about skill styles is that they're limited to 1 color only, and barely any of them follow a theme. You have one skill that's orange, and another that's green, and then one that is purple. Using them all makes your character look like they're doing a RGB light show. It's incredibly gaudy and isn't worth the grind. A color picker should've been available for recolors from the start. Completely new animations and models should've been their priority afterwards.

fizzylu · October 19

I actually think the worst part about skill styles is that the icon for the style recolor doesn't actually show on the bar, the normal skill icon does.... terrible oversight on their part imo. It drives me insane and I avoid using the skill styles partially because of that. Most have also been hurting my eyes, the violet destro staff ult especially, too though.... and I bet this matriarch will be just as bad.

Ilumia · October 19

The only good thing that's come from this, is the hilarious and accurate comments in that reddit post.

Syldras wrote: »

Wait until we get a huge white one (at least double the normal size), sparkling, adorned with neon flowers, exploding in a huge golden flash every 3 seconds, in 2 years or so

Please don't give any ideas, in cas zos argues that "it was requested by the players" ><

When the whole skill style thing was first mentioned by zos I thought, finally new sorc pets - for the benefit of everyone, that's great! Alas, this is not what I had in mind. The very minimal expectation I had, was it beckoming a lot smaller, so it became less annoying and the pixelation became better. A different looking pet entirely (with more pixels hopefully), and still a smaller less annoying one was the wish though.

ArchMikem · October 19

We're a vocal minority. Their target money spending audience enjoys bright flashy things.

tomofhyrule · October 19

I think a lot of people had ideas about the Sorc pet that were not feasible.

Yes, it'd be great to have something less intrusive. But remember that the pet actually has mechanics, and it useable in PvP. That means you can't:

Remove the model
Change the model to something harder to see
Completely change the model to act differently

without making it seem something like P2W in a way.

Imagine if you were in Cyrodiil or BGs and then you're being attacked by... nothing? And then you can't attack it back? But then another Sorc comes by and you can see it's a flappy, with a heathbar, and it's targetable (so your attacks go to the flappy instead of the person). Skill Styles really only change colors, not the entirety of the attack, and that's precisely what this one is doing.

I know a lot of people had the idea that they'd want to swap the entire flappy model for a hummingbird, but it still needs to have the same attacks (the kicks, shocks, etc.) so the model would really need to be around the same size, and it'd still have to be something that could logically have its own healthbar, be targetable by enemies, and use lightning attacks.

Estin wrote: »

The worst part about skill styles is that they're limited to 1 color only

For now, but even the next update is giving us a second version of Force Pulse. It's not limited to one color permanently.

Also, on PTS there are class skills in the collections menu - they're not previewable or purchaseable yet, but they are giving each class a standard color (and Sorc is red). Also some lines do have consistent colors, if all the purple Destro skills are any indication.

KromedeTheCorrupt · October 19

While I’m not as excited as others with skill styles I’m at least happy their exploring options. Color may vary well be just their testing for colors to introduce us to it. Then maybe we get some re skins or complete animation changes. Who knows but I’m happy they’re at least trying it out. So I cut em some slack that something is being explored and improved upon.

Soarora · October 19

At least its translucent, though I feel maybe just everyone’s pets aside from your own should show as translucent regardless of skill style. Would also help you know which ones yours…

Nerouyn · October 19

Pelanora wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1g6rwuq/new_summon_twilight_style_incoming/

This makes it WORSE zos..... how have you missed everything we have been saying....

This new one isn't to my tastes. It looks made for vampires, and I'm not especially into them.

But this is ZO finally making good on the extremely old promise of alternate pet appearances, which they made when they introduced the Warden which has an alternate bear style, all alone in its own "Special" category of the collection UI,.

I'd call this is good news even if we don't all love this twilight's appearance.

Fischblut · October 19

My sorcerer would like a red recolor of class skills

However, I personally don't like Twilight body model. It's ok to have a red version, and if it's not from Crown Store, I would even use it. But I really prefer Daedroth/Harvester/Dremora as a servant instead of Twilight

I also like Clannfear model, so having a red ghostly version of him would be exciting!

Erickson9610 · October 19

Nerouyn wrote: »

But this is ZO finally making good on the extremely old promise of alternate pet appearances, which they made when they introduced the Warden which has an alternate bear style, all alone in its own "Special" category of the collection UI,.

Slate-Gray Summoned Bear is now a Skill Style in Update 44.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

As of this PTS, Slate-Gray Summoned Bear is a Skill Style! For those curious, this Skill Style is automatically applied if you previously had Slate-Gray Summoned Bear equipped.

I suspect we may see a new icon for this Skill Style in the future, but regardless, this is a huge step forward!

YandereGirlfriend · October 19

I actually like this.

But let's also hope it's just the first of many options.

IncultaWolf · October 19

I think it looks fine, I'll definitely get it.

o_Primate_o · October 19

It should still be white. At least we can see through it

Nharimlur_Finor · October 19

Did I see an option to turn the twilight off in town?

Artymiss · October 19

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Imagine if you were in Cyrodiil or BGs and then you're being attacked by... nothing? And then you can't attack it back? But then another Sorc comes by and you can see it's a flappy, with a heathbar, and it's targetable (so your attacks go to the flappy instead of the person). Skill Styles really only change colors, not the entirety of the attack, and that's precisely what this one is doing.

You make an excellent point, and frankly, your entire post is very insightful, thank you. However, people rarely complain about any other pets, even including the Warden bear. The Twilights are huge, and flappy, and that makes them extremely annoying. All we need is for them to be like...half-sized, and maybe adjust their wing mobility, and that's something most of us can live with. Again, referencing the Warden Bear, it is big, but its movements are conservative enough that, unless it is blocking something I need to interact with, it can be ignored.

So yeah, the Twilight's size AND effects are both collectively a problem.

tomofhyrule · October 19

Artymiss wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Imagine if you were in Cyrodiil or BGs and then you're being attacked by... nothing? And then you can't attack it back? But then another Sorc comes by and you can see it's a flappy, with a heathbar, and it's targetable (so your attacks go to the flappy instead of the person). Skill Styles really only change colors, not the entirety of the attack, and that's precisely what this one is doing.

You make an excellent point, and frankly, your entire post is very insightful, thank you. However, people rarely complain about any other pets, even including the Warden bear. The Twilights are huge, and flappy, and that makes them extremely annoying. All we need is for them to be like...half-sized, and maybe adjust their wing mobility, and that's something most of us can live with. Again, referencing the Warden Bear, it is big, but its movements are conservative enough that, unless it is blocking something I need to interact with, it can be ignored.

So yeah, the Twilight's size AND effects are both collectively a problem.

But you're making the same point - it's that people want to change the physical shape and animations of the flappy, which is not how Skill Styles work. A skill style by definition requires the basic shape of the thing to remain the same, just that the color (or the color of the effects) can change. It's not changing the actual animations.

If people want flappy to be a different size, or use different animations, or whatever, then it's the base skill that needs to be changed. Giving people the option of changing only theirs will end up making PvP encounters different because of hitboxes, and that's not the point of Skill Styles (and again, if there's something purchaseable which makes your PvP function differently than other players of the same class who don't pay, then that's literally P2W).

By all means, petition for the base skill to get changed. But if you expect anything from Skill Styling other than a recolor, you're not going to get it.

ESO_player123 · October 19

My main is sorc that uses a twilight matriarch, and I will definitely skip this one.

Edit: on the bright side, this red permaglow is optional.

Pelanora · October 19

"Besides the color change, will the styling feature have other visual changes players can add in the future?'

'Maybe. At launch it's color, but part of the reason we built the system the way we did was so that we can expand it to things like that. A lot of questions we get from players are, I'm a Warden and I've had the same bear forever. Can we get different pets? Sorcerers are like, hey, that Winged Twilight is getting old. I would love to see something else.

That's the idea behind the system. When we do that, if we do that, is unknown right now, but we've built the styling system to incorporate all of that feedback.' "

https://wccftech.com/elder-scrolls-online-gold-road-hands-on-with-scribing-plus-qa-with-rich-lambert/

please just get on and add to the models for pets with new options. I don't see how the 'when' and the 'if' can be unknown to @ZOS_RichLambert

evymyu233 · October 20

i hope my warden can summon a guar

fizzylu · October 20

tomofhyrule wrote: »

By all means, petition for the base skill to get changed. But if you expect anything from Skill Styling other than a recolor, you're not going to get it.

But that's the thing.... people have. Quite a bit, even. Pages upon pages of feedback in a single thread that was active a year ago or so and that was clearly going ignored, and I know for a fact that there was more before it and probably even after.
There is no rule that states "skill styles must only change the colors", it really comes down to how much effort Zenimax is willing to put into them that determines to what extent they actually alter skills.

Which is why this specific skill style is such a huge slap in the face. It just shows that Zenimax truly does not care to listen to it's playerbase.... because if they did, they would have been willing to put in a little extra work to make skill styles, in the case of certain abilities (especially ones that have long been determined to be detrimental to some players gameplay experience), more than simple recolors.

And like Pelanora quoted.... they did say that they could possibly be more than recolors practically right from the get-go when skill styles were announced. But I'm just starting to accept that Zenimax is probably just all talk in most cases. Now if only I could find the will to fully let go of this game and not hang onto the few things I love about it.... thankfully they're helping me a lot with that with this BG rework no one asked for, at least.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Yes, it'd be great to have something less intrusive. But remember that the pet actually has mechanics, and it useable in PvP. That means you can't:
Remove the model

Change the model to something harder to see

Completely change the model to act differently

without making it seem something like P2W in a way.

Imagine if you were in Cyrodiil or BGs and then you're being attacked by... nothing? And then you can't attack it back? But then another Sorc comes by and you can see it's a flappy, with a heathbar, and it's targetable (so your attacks go to the flappy instead of the person).

And I don't think you realize how big the flappy bird actually is.... in size, she is taller than my max height male khajiit. I can't even imagine how wide her wingspan actually is.
While it is unrealistic to have expected it to be as small as a hummingbird (personally don't know anyone who actually wanted this, only recall some joking posts about it on the forums when talking about how annoying her flapping is with her gigantic wings cutting across the screen), downsizing it to something like the scamp (what I know a lot of people have actually talked about preferring for the matriarch) is completely feasible. Or, what else has been requested, just something to change her idle animation to not be so constant or even just a change to make her stand farther away from the player character. Really wish some players would stop making excuses for Zenimax.

Nerouyn · October 20

fizzylu wrote: »

There is no rule that states "skill styles must only change the colors", it really comes down to how much effort Zenimax is willing to put into them that determines to what extent they actually alter skills.

Already incoming.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-skill-styles-lavaburst-wildburn-and-lilac-purple/

Welcome to the ESO Skill Styles: Lavaburst, Wildburn and Lilac Purple in U44 Guide. Today we are going to take a look at all the new ESO Skill Styles that are being added in the free base-game Update 44 including two with completely new visuals and sound effects, not just basic re-colors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttfxKPseWMQ

I haven't been able to play for a while but have been keeping an eye on them and couldn't help but notice how the new force shock one looks very warden themed - ice and leaves.

fizzylu · October 20

@Nerouyn
I've seen these, and while I do think the new particle effects are a nice touch, I still think they fall close enough to a "recolor".... and sadly probably won't help anyone feel better about Zenimax on this subject.
There's been tons of feedback on these forums asking for actual changes to the twilight matriarch model or alternative options that are less obtrusive.... and they give us an equally if not more obnoxious version that's a translucent, glowing red with smoke(?) particle effects coming off of it. Cool.

Nerouyn · October 20

fizzylu wrote: »

@Nerouyn
I've seen these, and while I do think the new particle effects are a nice touch, I still think they fall close enough to a "recolor".... and sadly probably won't help anyone feel better about Zenimax on this subject.

I wouldn't be so sure.

I'm one of the single player games TES fans who thinks that ESO shouldn't have classes, but since it does and those impose a class aesthetic on you, then giving players a tiny smattering of magic skills outside of that theme jarrs.

Like I regard Templars and Necromancers as superior to other classes for having more non-class abilities which match their class theme. For Templars the resto staff and psiijic and Necros, the blue'ish soul and mage guild ones.

I'm also one of those players who love nature and had high hopes for Warden but found playing them to be pretty trash.

They're not useless but too much of their potency is in a small number of abilities and the rest are super situational, so the result is that by level 20'ish you've seen pretty much everything the class has to offer. Super boring.

Force shock isn't an ability I have any use for and especially not on a warden because they already have an insta spammable but it sets a precedent and expectation for more styles like this, i.e. potentially offering me many more nature themed magic attacks.

I know that a warden redesign is in the works so will probably wait until that has been fully rolled out but the appeal of playing warden grows with every additional nature themed magic damage ability. The class only has a few and they're all animal themed.

If memory serves, the only plant themed one in the game is a Nightblade ability. Cripple, I think. Thorns. That ability was originally for the original warden class which was scrapped pre launch and its animation was repurposed.

fizzylu · October 20

@Nerouyn
But this thread is about the fact that players had requested changes to the twilight matriarch model and were not only not given them.... but the complete opposite.

It's cool that you like the upcoming skill styles, I think a couple are neat myself.... but on this specific subject (the twilight matriarch and the player feedback for it over the years), yeah no, things are not cool.