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Azureblight is Way Too OP – BG Update Will Make It Worse
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ForumSavant✭✭✭✭PureEnvelope35 wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. I can't tell if you are trolling, uninformed, or just a psyop that knows azureblight is too strong and you think it should also be nerfed so you are here giving this as a fake steelman argument to why it shouldn't, showing that there is no defense at all for it. Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
Pestilent Host has the highest DoT proc tooltip in the game and it rarely procs, not sure what point you're trying to make comparing tooltips, Tarnished Nightmare itself is hardly a good damage proc to go off of for damage as outside of the horrible sound it makes, all of my mates that play on high MMR BGs, as well as streamer friends who almost exclusively play BGs rarely if ever encounter Azureblight on EU side, hasn't been good in them for years so your point here is confusing.
If we're comparing proc set damage then Shadow of the Red Mountain should be one of the strongest yet it is only used by ranged gankers paired with Anthelmir's Construct, both of which have a higher damage tooltip than Azureblight and before the point gets brought up about Azureblight being AoE, Plaguebreak has stronger scaling and is often the reason that when my friends and I use Azureblight against 12 mans in Cyrodiil they fully wipe, when used in a 4v4 situation we have not once found Azureblight to scale better than just going for normal builds.
Azureblight is one of the strongest sets in PvE no one can argue that but in PvP, if a slow burn set like Azureblight causes you more issues than actual stat based builds with cross buffs, such as the 10 or so people on EU still playing group BGs will be running, [snip]
The reason tarnished is used is because it is an AoE proc set that is used in PvP by plenty of people. You can hear the proc anytime you are out for more than 15 minutes. It, like azure, is an AoE proc set. Comparing AoE to single target procs makes no logical sense. AoE damage should be less than single target damage. You say before it gets brought up, but then why would you not start with an AoE set as your first example, that's just bad faith.
Yes, VD also has a higher tooltip and is AoE, but certain parameters have to be met, for example, someone dying. Azure can trigger, the explosion, every .5 seconds. Every half a second you can get hit with azure.
Skill or delusion issue? If you think that's the case we can fight on PC NA or PC EU and see where the "skill issue" that you brought up really lies.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:402 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
I mean, in PvE when there's anti stack mechanics and damage we don't stack. Maybe PvP should try it.
I'd bet the PvP ballgroups that are made up of people who also play endgame PvE (because the 2 groups overlap far more than most PvPers would like to admit) are the ones who manage to unstack and live. They're probably also the ones who brought azureblight over into PvP, since in theory it should work on players exactly the same way it works on a 3 or 4 stack of aboms/Bahsei when the OT is pringling properly.
"Maybe PvP should try it." Again, just zero engagement with the point.
The people you are arguing with probably have just as high if not higher PvE scores than you. You can say maybe PvPers should try it, but you don't play in the best PvE or PvP end game group. Why is your uninformed opinion and flawed engagement with the conversation more important? You don't even look at the logs to see the highest damage in PvE which is what you are saying you are at the end game of. There are people on the leaderboards right now that are top 1-36 in the latest 4 trials that do PvP, do you think they, people who have higher scores, just refuse to unstack when azure is on them?
You've been stalking me on ESO logs? I've had some patch high scores, though I don't scorepush often - you got me there! I'm old and these hands can't get above 120cpm no matter how hard I try.
Of course I look at logs LOL. And in some fights azure is best, literally never denied that. I use it myself, look here I am at #11 on the ESO logs leaderboard this patch for my class, just so you have some receipts. Now show me yours, since you know so much more about endgame than I do.
No I'm not in a world record group. Doesn't mean I'm bad at the game, nor does it mean I don't understand how and when the set is used in PvE endgame. If you stopped discounting my own experience maybe I'll be more inclined to listen to yours.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:240 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
I mean, in PvE when there's anti stack mechanics and damage we don't stack. Maybe PvP should try it.
I'd bet the PvP ballgroups that are made up of people who also play endgame PvE (because the 2 groups overlap far more than most PvPers would like to admit) are the ones who manage to unstack and live. They're probably also the ones who brought azureblight over into PvP, since in theory it should work on players exactly the same way it works on a 3 or 4 stack of aboms/Bahsei when the OT is pringling properly.
"Maybe PvP should try it." Again, just zero engagement with the point.
The people you are arguing with probably have just as high if not higher PvE scores than you. You can say maybe PvPers should try it, but you don't play in the best PvE or PvP end game group. Why is your uninformed opinion and flawed engagement with the conversation more important? You don't even look at the logs to see the highest damage in PvE which is what you are saying you are at the end game of. There are people on the leaderboards right now that are top 1-36 in the latest 4 trials that do PvP, do you think they, people who have higher scores, just refuse to unstack when azure is on them?
You've been stalking me on ESO logs? I've had some patch high scores, though I don't scorepush often - you got me there! I'm old and these hands can't get above 120cpm no matter how hard I try.
Of course I look at logs LOL. And in some fights azure is best, literally never denied that. I use it myself, look here I am at #11 on the ESO logs leaderboard this patch for my class, just so you have some receipts. Now show me yours, since you know so much more about endgame than I do.
No I'm not in a world record group. Doesn't mean I'm bad at the game, nor does it mean I don't understand how and when the set is used in PvE endgame. If you stopped discounting my own experience maybe I'll be more inclined to listen to yours.
Okay so your point of maybe PvPers should try it has no merit. The people who score push and have higher scores play in my 4-6 man groups. Do you think WR holders that PvP have tried the "don't stack" approach?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:262 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
I mean, in PvE when there's anti stack mechanics and damage we don't stack. Maybe PvP should try it.
I'd bet the PvP ballgroups that are made up of people who also play endgame PvE (because the 2 groups overlap far more than most PvPers would like to admit) are the ones who manage to unstack and live. They're probably also the ones who brought azureblight over into PvP, since in theory it should work on players exactly the same way it works on a 3 or 4 stack of aboms/Bahsei when the OT is pringling properly.
"Maybe PvP should try it." Again, just zero engagement with the point.
The people you are arguing with probably have just as high if not higher PvE scores than you. You can say maybe PvPers should try it, but you don't play in the best PvE or PvP end game group. Why is your uninformed opinion and flawed engagement with the conversation more important? You don't even look at the logs to see the highest damage in PvE which is what you are saying you are at the end game of. There are people on the leaderboards right now that are top 1-36 in the latest 4 trials that do PvP, do you think they, people who have higher scores, just refuse to unstack when azure is on them?
You've been stalking me on ESO logs? I've had some patch high scores, though I don't scorepush often - you got me there! I'm old and these hands can't get above 120cpm no matter how hard I try.
Of course I look at logs LOL. And in some fights azure is best, literally never denied that. I use it myself, look here I am at #11 on the ESO logs leaderboard this patch for my class, just so you have some receipts. Now show me yours, since you know so much more about endgame than I do.
No I'm not in a world record group. Doesn't mean I'm bad at the game, nor does it mean I don't understand how and when the set is used in PvE endgame. If you stopped discounting my own experience maybe I'll be more inclined to listen to yours.
Okay so your point of maybe PvPers should try it has no merit. The people who score push and have higher scores play in my 4-6 man groups. Do you think WR holders that PvP have tried the "don't stack" approach?
Maybe they should. It'd be thinking outside the box for sure. Azure range is small enough that you can't really use it on Oax even when perfectly stacked.
Who do you play with on NA? If they're world record holders I should know them, I've played with (and butted heads with LOL) a few of them over the years, though not in wr environments.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:270 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
I mean, in PvE when there's anti stack mechanics and damage we don't stack. Maybe PvP should try it.
I'd bet the PvP ballgroups that are made up of people who also play endgame PvE (because the 2 groups overlap far more than most PvPers would like to admit) are the ones who manage to unstack and live. They're probably also the ones who brought azureblight over into PvP, since in theory it should work on players exactly the same way it works on a 3 or 4 stack of aboms/Bahsei when the OT is pringling properly.
"Maybe PvP should try it." Again, just zero engagement with the point.
The people you are arguing with probably have just as high if not higher PvE scores than you. You can say maybe PvPers should try it, but you don't play in the best PvE or PvP end game group. Why is your uninformed opinion and flawed engagement with the conversation more important? You don't even look at the logs to see the highest damage in PvE which is what you are saying you are at the end game of. There are people on the leaderboards right now that are top 1-36 in the latest 4 trials that do PvP, do you think they, people who have higher scores, just refuse to unstack when azure is on them?
You've been stalking me on ESO logs? I've had some patch high scores, though I don't scorepush often - you got me there! I'm old and these hands can't get above 120cpm no matter how hard I try.
Of course I look at logs LOL. And in some fights azure is best, literally never denied that. I use it myself, look here I am at #11 on the ESO logs leaderboard this patch for my class, just so you have some receipts. Now show me yours, since you know so much more about endgame than I do.
No I'm not in a world record group. Doesn't mean I'm bad at the game, nor does it mean I don't understand how and when the set is used in PvE endgame. If you stopped discounting my own experience maybe I'll be more inclined to listen to yours.
Okay so your point of maybe PvPers should try it has no merit. The people who score push and have higher scores play in my 4-6 man groups. Do you think WR holders that PvP have tried the "don't stack" approach?
Maybe they should.
Obviously they have [snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:181 -
PureEnvelope35✭✭✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »I'm trying to understand the objection people have to this set being tuned down a bit. Are you using this set exclusively in PvE and don't want it nerfed because its too powerful in PvP or do you believe this set is fine for pvp?
No other proc set could produce even a fraction of the damage of this set, it only gets stronger when stacked, and it ends up producing 40K+ burst resulting in players instantly dying.
Some Ballgroups can still survive and thus it isn't tuned up enough.Fashion is the true endgame.PC EU2 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
I mean, in PvE when there's anti stack mechanics and damage we don't stack. Maybe PvP should try it.
I'd bet the PvP ballgroups that are made up of people who also play endgame PvE (because the 2 groups overlap far more than most PvPers would like to admit) are the ones who manage to unstack and live. They're probably also the ones who brought azureblight over into PvP, since in theory it should work on players exactly the same way it works on a 3 or 4 stack of aboms/Bahsei when the OT is pringling properly.
"Maybe PvP should try it." Again, just zero engagement with the point.
The people you are arguing with probably have just as high if not higher PvE scores than you. You can say maybe PvPers should try it, but you don't play in the best PvE or PvP end game group. Why is your uninformed opinion and flawed engagement with the conversation more important? You don't even look at the logs to see the highest damage in PvE which is what you are saying you are at the end game of. There are people on the leaderboards right now that are top 1-36 in the latest 4 trials that do PvP, do you think they, people who have higher scores, just refuse to unstack when azure is on them?
You've been stalking me on ESO logs? I've had some patch high scores, though I don't scorepush often - you got me there! I'm old and these hands can't get above 120cpm no matter how hard I try.
Of course I look at logs LOL. And in some fights azure is best, literally never denied that. I use it myself, look here I am at #11 on the ESO logs leaderboard this patch for my class, just so you have some receipts. Now show me yours, since you know so much more about endgame than I do.
No I'm not in a world record group. Doesn't mean I'm bad at the game, nor does it mean I don't understand how and when the set is used in PvE endgame. If you stopped discounting my own experience maybe I'll be more inclined to listen to yours.
Okay so your point of maybe PvPers should try it has no merit. The people who score push and have higher scores play in my 4-6 man groups. Do you think WR holders that PvP have tried the "don't stack" approach?
Maybe they should.
Obviously they have [snip]
I went back and edited my response because I was trolling a lil there and thought better of it.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:320 -
Synapsis123✭✭✭✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
I mean, in PvE when there's anti stack mechanics and damage we don't stack. Maybe PvP should try it.
I'd bet the PvP ballgroups that are made up of people who also play endgame PvE (because the 2 groups overlap far more than most PvPers would like to admit) are the ones who manage to unstack and live. They're probably also the ones who brought azureblight over into PvP, since in theory it should work on players exactly the same way it works on a 3 or 4 stack of aboms/Bahsei when the OT is pringling properly.
"Maybe PvP should try it." Again, just zero engagement with the point.
The people you are arguing with probably have just as high if not higher PvE scores than you. You can say maybe PvPers should try it, but you don't play in the best PvE or PvP end game group. Why is your uninformed opinion and flawed engagement with the conversation more important? You don't even look at the logs to see the highest damage in PvE which is what you are saying you are at the end game of. There are people on the leaderboards right now that are top 1-36 in the latest 4 trials that do PvP, do you think they, people who have higher scores, just refuse to unstack when azure is on them?
You've been stalking me on ESO logs? I've had some patch high scores, though I don't scorepush often - you got me there! I'm old and these hands can't get above 120cpm no matter how hard I try.
Of course I look at logs LOL. And in some fights azure is best, literally never denied that. I use it myself, look here I am at #11 on the ESO logs leaderboard this patch for my class, just so you have some receipts. Now show me yours, since you know so much more about endgame than I do.
No I'm not in a world record group. Doesn't mean I'm bad at the game, nor does it mean I don't understand how and when the set is used in PvE endgame. If you stopped discounting my own experience maybe I'll be more inclined to listen to yours.
Okay so your point of maybe PvPers should try it has no merit. The people who score push and have higher scores play in my 4-6 man groups. Do you think WR holders that PvP have tried the "don't stack" approach?
Maybe they should. It'd be thinking outside the box for sure. Azure range is small enough that you can't really use it on Oax even when perfectly stacked.
Who do you play with on NA? If they're world record holders I should know them, I've played with (and butted heads with LOL) a few of them over the years, though not in wr environments.
Its unrealistic to expect 12 man groups to all stay 10 meters away from each other at all times. If one set is so powerful that you have to play that way then you're making my point for me. The set is over tuned.
How are pugs supposed to play around that requirement? They can't constantly be typing in chat to stay away from each other.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:281 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »...you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong.
A massive group of more players should be able to kill at least a few of a 12-person coordinated ball group. A second ball group, equally skilled and coordinated, should be able to kill at least a few of a 12-person coordinated ball group.
You might disagree, but this is my perspective. It's from this viewpoint that I think something like Azure is fine and was sorely needed.
The azure tooltip is higher, but it's also delayed and can be purged, while tarnished cannot and is used for ganking. They're really apples and oranges.1 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
I mean, in PvE when there's anti stack mechanics and damage we don't stack. Maybe PvP should try it.
I'd bet the PvP ballgroups that are made up of people who also play endgame PvE (because the 2 groups overlap far more than most PvPers would like to admit) are the ones who manage to unstack and live. They're probably also the ones who brought azureblight over into PvP, since in theory it should work on players exactly the same way it works on a 3 or 4 stack of aboms/Bahsei when the OT is pringling properly.
"Maybe PvP should try it." Again, just zero engagement with the point.
The people you are arguing with probably have just as high if not higher PvE scores than you. You can say maybe PvPers should try it, but you don't play in the best PvE or PvP end game group. Why is your uninformed opinion and flawed engagement with the conversation more important? You don't even look at the logs to see the highest damage in PvE which is what you are saying you are at the end game of. There are people on the leaderboards right now that are top 1-36 in the latest 4 trials that do PvP, do you think they, people who have higher scores, just refuse to unstack when azure is on them?
You've been stalking me on ESO logs? I've had some patch high scores, though I don't scorepush often - you got me there! I'm old and these hands can't get above 120cpm no matter how hard I try.
Of course I look at logs LOL. And in some fights azure is best, literally never denied that. I use it myself, look here I am at #11 on the ESO logs leaderboard this patch for my class, just so you have some receipts. Now show me yours, since you know so much more about endgame than I do.
No I'm not in a world record group. Doesn't mean I'm bad at the game, nor does it mean I don't understand how and when the set is used in PvE endgame. If you stopped discounting my own experience maybe I'll be more inclined to listen to yours.
Okay so your point of maybe PvPers should try it has no merit. The people who score push and have higher scores play in my 4-6 man groups. Do you think WR holders that PvP have tried the "don't stack" approach?
Maybe they should. It'd be thinking outside the box for sure. Azure range is small enough that you can't really use it on Oax even when perfectly stacked.
Who do you play with on NA? If they're world record holders I should know them, I've played with (and butted heads with LOL) a few of them over the years, though not in wr environments.
Its unrealistic to expect 12 man groups to all stay 10 meters away from each other at all times. If one set is so powerful that you have to play that way then you're making my point for me. The set is over tuned.
How are pugs supposed to play around that requirement? They can't constantly be typing in chat to stay away from each other.
So make templars great again and start running purge.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:290 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
I mean, in PvE when there's anti stack mechanics and damage we don't stack. Maybe PvP should try it.
I'd bet the PvP ballgroups that are made up of people who also play endgame PvE (because the 2 groups overlap far more than most PvPers would like to admit) are the ones who manage to unstack and live. They're probably also the ones who brought azureblight over into PvP, since in theory it should work on players exactly the same way it works on a 3 or 4 stack of aboms/Bahsei when the OT is pringling properly.
"Maybe PvP should try it." Again, just zero engagement with the point.
The people you are arguing with probably have just as high if not higher PvE scores than you. You can say maybe PvPers should try it, but you don't play in the best PvE or PvP end game group. Why is your uninformed opinion and flawed engagement with the conversation more important? You don't even look at the logs to see the highest damage in PvE which is what you are saying you are at the end game of. There are people on the leaderboards right now that are top 1-36 in the latest 4 trials that do PvP, do you think they, people who have higher scores, just refuse to unstack when azure is on them?
You've been stalking me on ESO logs? I've had some patch high scores, though I don't scorepush often - you got me there! I'm old and these hands can't get above 120cpm no matter how hard I try.
Of course I look at logs LOL. And in some fights azure is best, literally never denied that. I use it myself, look here I am at #11 on the ESO logs leaderboard this patch for my class, just so you have some receipts. Now show me yours, since you know so much more about endgame than I do.
No I'm not in a world record group. Doesn't mean I'm bad at the game, nor does it mean I don't understand how and when the set is used in PvE endgame. If you stopped discounting my own experience maybe I'll be more inclined to listen to yours.
Okay so your point of maybe PvPers should try it has no merit. The people who score push and have higher scores play in my 4-6 man groups. Do you think WR holders that PvP have tried the "don't stack" approach?
Maybe they should. It'd be thinking outside the box for sure. Azure range is small enough that you can't really use it on Oax even when perfectly stacked.
Who do you play with on NA? If they're world record holders I should know them, I've played with (and butted heads with LOL) a few of them over the years, though not in wr environments.
[snip]
No. If something isn't working for you, find the counters. There's almost always a counter. For example, purge the dots? Is plague break also showing up in your death recaps?
There's also the possibility that azure is bugged and over proccing in which case submit a bug report.
My initial entry into this thread was just to counter people stating that azure was the very best set for every single PvE encounter which is demonstrably false. I'm still getting challenged on that which is annoying when ESO logs backs up my statement, to the point of people telling me that I must not play endgame, must not know PvE metas, etc when a simple search of leaderboards is enough to prove my point. Find me a trial other than Lucent where azure is meta on every single boss and I'll concede, but you won't because it's not and I'm tired of having my knowledge and experience on that point questioned.
So since my valid and correct point is being dismissed out of hand I can only conclude that the people making sweeping statements are wrong about their PvP proclamations as well. After all, they're already provably half wrong.
[edited to remove quote]
Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:333 -
PureEnvelope35✭✭✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »PureEnvelope35 wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. I can't tell if you are trolling, uninformed, or just a psyop that knows azureblight is too strong and you think it should also be nerfed so you are here giving this as a fake steelman argument to why it shouldn't, showing that there is no defense at all for it. Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
Pestilent Host has the highest DoT proc tooltip in the game and it rarely procs, not sure what point you're trying to make comparing tooltips, Tarnished Nightmare itself is hardly a good damage proc to go off of for damage as outside of the horrible sound it makes, all of my mates that play on high MMR BGs, as well as streamer friends who almost exclusively play BGs rarely if ever encounter Azureblight on EU side, hasn't been good in them for years so your point here is confusing.
If we're comparing proc set damage then Shadow of the Red Mountain should be one of the strongest yet it is only used by ranged gankers paired with Anthelmir's Construct, both of which have a higher damage tooltip than Azureblight and before the point gets brought up about Azureblight being AoE, Plaguebreak has stronger scaling and is often the reason that when my friends and I use Azureblight against 12 mans in Cyrodiil they fully wipe, when used in a 4v4 situation we have not once found Azureblight to scale better than just going for normal builds.
Azureblight is one of the strongest sets in PvE no one can argue that but in PvP, if a slow burn set like Azureblight causes you more issues than actual stat based builds with cross buffs, such as the 10 or so people on EU still playing group BGs will be running, [snip]
The reason tarnished is used is because it is an AoE proc set that is used in PvP by plenty of people. You can hear the proc anytime you are out for more than 15 minutes. It, like azure, is an AoE proc set. Comparing AoE to single target procs makes no logical sense. AoE damage should be less than single target damage. You say before it gets brought up, but then why would you not start with an AoE set as your first example, that's just bad faith.
Yes, VD also has a higher tooltip and is AoE, but certain parameters have to be met, for example, someone dying. Azure can trigger, the explosion, every .5 seconds. Every half a second you can get hit with azure.
Skill or delusion issue? If you think that's the case we can fight on PC NA or PC EU and see where the "skill issue" that you brought up really lies.
True I only compared single target sets and a few other sets as purely examples of how pointless comparing tooltips is, surely if you're on PC you can provide screenshots or videos of it being as prevalent as you claim it to be on both EU and NA in BGs, where you claim the issue is.
Azure also has parameters to be met, namely that it needs several people stacking DoTs to maximise proc time, where I'd argue in a BG scenario you would still perform better with just 4 people stacking different DoT sets, should they prefer that over stacking buffs and heals.
Perfect, the exact response I expected, throw out your @name here so I we can see who is so easily baited, would you like me to bring an Acuity Warden that hard carries my damage? or perhaps a full proc Arcanist with 0 counterplay but the entertainment value of queueing at your local licensing office, maybe a 45k HP Bashcanist that might struggle to kill 1v1 but doesn't die easy?
By no means does dueling on ESO prove anything but if you want to stalemate with two boring duelist builds I'm sure I could waste 20 minutes of my life in the next 5-10 business days to prove a point on forums /s.
But again as a few of us asked, come on big man, at least send us some CMX screenshots to prove your point, as a group we've not had a single time where we are efficient on Azure against other 4 mans as we spec to deal with 12+, so I am genuinely curious what issues you've run into in BGs.
[edited to remove quote]
Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:41Fashion is the true endgame.PC EU1 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭ForumSavant wrote: »PureEnvelope35 wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. I can't tell if you are trolling, uninformed, or just a psyop that knows azureblight is too strong and you think it should also be nerfed so you are here giving this as a fake steelman argument to why it shouldn't, showing that there is no defense at all for it. Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
Pestilent Host has the highest DoT proc tooltip in the game and it rarely procs, not sure what point you're trying to make comparing tooltips, Tarnished Nightmare itself is hardly a good damage proc to go off of for damage as outside of the horrible sound it makes, all of my mates that play on high MMR BGs, as well as streamer friends who almost exclusively play BGs rarely if ever encounter Azureblight on EU side, hasn't been good in them for years so your point here is confusing.
If we're comparing proc set damage then Shadow of the Red Mountain should be one of the strongest yet it is only used by ranged gankers paired with Anthelmir's Construct, both of which have a higher damage tooltip than Azureblight and before the point gets brought up about Azureblight being AoE, Plaguebreak has stronger scaling and is often the reason that when my friends and I use Azureblight against 12 mans in Cyrodiil they fully wipe, when used in a 4v4 situation we have not once found Azureblight to scale better than just going for normal builds.
Azureblight is one of the strongest sets in PvE no one can argue that but in PvP, if a slow burn set like Azureblight causes you more issues than actual stat based builds with cross buffs, such as the 10 or so people on EU still playing group BGs will be running, [snip]
The reason tarnished is used is because it is an AoE proc set that is used in PvP by plenty of people. You can hear the proc anytime you are out for more than 15 minutes. It, like azure, is an AoE proc set. Comparing AoE to single target procs makes no logical sense. AoE damage should be less than single target damage. You say before it gets brought up, but then why would you not start with an AoE set as your first example, that's just bad faith.
Yes, VD also has a higher tooltip and is AoE, but certain parameters have to be met, for example, someone dying. Azure can trigger, the explosion, every .5 seconds. Every half a second you can get hit with azure.
Skill or delusion issue? If you think that's the case we can fight on PC NA or PC EU and see where the "skill issue" that you brought up really lies.
Oh so for PvP I could use Azure Blight with VD then. That's great idea. Thanks
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:44Today Victory is mine. Long Live the Empire.1 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »...you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong.
A massive group of more players should be able to kill at least a few of a 12-person coordinated ball group. A second ball group, equally skilled and coordinated, should be able to kill at least a few of a 12-person coordinated ball group.
You might disagree, but this is my perspective. It's from this viewpoint that I think something like Azure is fine and was sorely needed.
The azure tooltip is higher, but it's also delayed and can be purged, while tarnished cannot and is used for ganking. They're really apples and oranges.
Your last statement shows that you don't understand the way azure works. The azure application is generally ground dots, purging azure does little to nothing to remedy the situation In addition to doing more dmg on explosion than tarnished, it also is generally going off far more often.
There is a fundamental misunderstanding of the way the set works.0 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭PureEnvelope35 wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »PureEnvelope35 wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. I can't tell if you are trolling, uninformed, or just a psyop that knows azureblight is too strong and you think it should also be nerfed so you are here giving this as a fake steelman argument to why it shouldn't, showing that there is no defense at all for it. Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
Pestilent Host has the highest DoT proc tooltip in the game and it rarely procs, not sure what point you're trying to make comparing tooltips, Tarnished Nightmare itself is hardly a good damage proc to go off of for damage as outside of the horrible sound it makes, all of my mates that play on high MMR BGs, as well as streamer friends who almost exclusively play BGs rarely if ever encounter Azureblight on EU side, hasn't been good in them for years so your point here is confusing.
If we're comparing proc set damage then Shadow of the Red Mountain should be one of the strongest yet it is only used by ranged gankers paired with Anthelmir's Construct, both of which have a higher damage tooltip than Azureblight and before the point gets brought up about Azureblight being AoE, Plaguebreak has stronger scaling and is often the reason that when my friends and I use Azureblight against 12 mans in Cyrodiil they fully wipe, when used in a 4v4 situation we have not once found Azureblight to scale better than just going for normal builds.
Azureblight is one of the strongest sets in PvE no one can argue that but in PvP, if a slow burn set like Azureblight causes you more issues than actual stat based builds with cross buffs, such as the 10 or so people on EU still playing group BGs will be running, [snip]
The reason tarnished is used is because it is an AoE proc set that is used in PvP by plenty of people. You can hear the proc anytime you are out for more than 15 minutes. It, like azure, is an AoE proc set. Comparing AoE to single target procs makes no logical sense. AoE damage should be less than single target damage. You say before it gets brought up, but then why would you not start with an AoE set as your first example, that's just bad faith.
Yes, VD also has a higher tooltip and is AoE, but certain parameters have to be met, for example, someone dying. Azure can trigger, the explosion, every .5 seconds. Every half a second you can get hit with azure.
Skill or delusion issue? If you think that's the case we can fight on PC NA or PC EU and see where the "skill issue" that you brought up really lies.
True I only compared single target sets and a few other sets as purely examples of how pointless comparing tooltips is, surely if you're on PC you can provide screenshots or videos of it being as prevalent as you claim it to be on both EU and NA in BGs, where you claim the issue is.
Azure also has parameters to be met, namely that it needs several people stacking DoTs to maximise proc time, where I'd argue in a BG scenario you would still perform better with just 4 people stacking different DoT sets, should they prefer that over stacking buffs and heals.
Perfect, the exact response I expected, throw out your @name here so I we can see who is so easily baited, would you like me to bring an Acuity Warden that hard carries my damage? or perhaps a full proc Arcanist with 0 counterplay but the entertainment value of queueing at your local licensing office, maybe a 45k HP Bashcanist that might struggle to kill 1v1 but doesn't die easy?
By no means does dueling on ESO prove anything but if you want to stalemate with two boring duelist builds I'm sure I could waste 20 minutes of my life in the next 5-10 business days to prove a point on forums /s.
But again as a few of us asked, come on big man, at least send us some CMX screenshots to prove your point, as a group we've not had a single time where we are efficient on Azure against other 4 mans as we spec to deal with 12+, so I am genuinely curious what issues you've run into in BGs.
You make the claim that it could be delusion or a skill issue yet you're the one asking me for my @name. Yeah, you got me, the onus is definitely on me to provide that when you are the one trying to make the claim. If you'd like to provide yours I would be happy to reach out to you.
Again, you don't need CMX screenshots to see tooltip values, stop obfuscating.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:410 -
PureEnvelope35✭✭✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »PureEnvelope35 wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »PureEnvelope35 wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.
You aren't engaging at all. I can't tell if you are trolling, uninformed, or just a psyop that knows azureblight is too strong and you think it should also be nerfed so you are here giving this as a fake steelman argument to why it shouldn't, showing that there is no defense at all for it. Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.
You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.
The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.
It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.
Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.
As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.
The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."
Pestilent Host has the highest DoT proc tooltip in the game and it rarely procs, not sure what point you're trying to make comparing tooltips, Tarnished Nightmare itself is hardly a good damage proc to go off of for damage as outside of the horrible sound it makes, all of my mates that play on high MMR BGs, as well as streamer friends who almost exclusively play BGs rarely if ever encounter Azureblight on EU side, hasn't been good in them for years so your point here is confusing.
If we're comparing proc set damage then Shadow of the Red Mountain should be one of the strongest yet it is only used by ranged gankers paired with Anthelmir's Construct, both of which have a higher damage tooltip than Azureblight and before the point gets brought up about Azureblight being AoE, Plaguebreak has stronger scaling and is often the reason that when my friends and I use Azureblight against 12 mans in Cyrodiil they fully wipe, when used in a 4v4 situation we have not once found Azureblight to scale better than just going for normal builds.
Azureblight is one of the strongest sets in PvE no one can argue that but in PvP, if a slow burn set like Azureblight causes you more issues than actual stat based builds with cross buffs, such as the 10 or so people on EU still playing group BGs will be running, [snip]
The reason tarnished is used is because it is an AoE proc set that is used in PvP by plenty of people. You can hear the proc anytime you are out for more than 15 minutes. It, like azure, is an AoE proc set. Comparing AoE to single target procs makes no logical sense. AoE damage should be less than single target damage. You say before it gets brought up, but then why would you not start with an AoE set as your first example, that's just bad faith.
Yes, VD also has a higher tooltip and is AoE, but certain parameters have to be met, for example, someone dying. Azure can trigger, the explosion, every .5 seconds. Every half a second you can get hit with azure.
Skill or delusion issue? If you think that's the case we can fight on PC NA or PC EU and see where the "skill issue" that you brought up really lies.
True I only compared single target sets and a few other sets as purely examples of how pointless comparing tooltips is, surely if you're on PC you can provide screenshots or videos of it being as prevalent as you claim it to be on both EU and NA in BGs, where you claim the issue is.
Azure also has parameters to be met, namely that it needs several people stacking DoTs to maximise proc time, where I'd argue in a BG scenario you would still perform better with just 4 people stacking different DoT sets, should they prefer that over stacking buffs and heals.
Perfect, the exact response I expected, throw out your @name here so I we can see who is so easily baited, would you like me to bring an Acuity Warden that hard carries my damage? or perhaps a full proc Arcanist with 0 counterplay but the entertainment value of queueing at your local licensing office, maybe a 45k HP Bashcanist that might struggle to kill 1v1 but doesn't die easy?
By no means does dueling on ESO prove anything but if you want to stalemate with two boring duelist builds I'm sure I could waste 20 minutes of my life in the next 5-10 business days to prove a point on forums /s.
But again as a few of us asked, come on big man, at least send us some CMX screenshots to prove your point, as a group we've not had a single time where we are efficient on Azure against other 4 mans as we spec to deal with 12+, so I am genuinely curious what issues you've run into in BGs.
You make the claim that it could be delusion or a skill issue yet you're the one asking me for my @name. Yeah, you got me, the onus is definitely on me to provide that when you are the one trying to make the claim. If you'd like to provide yours I would be happy to reach out to you.
Again, you don't need CMX screenshots to see tooltip values, stop obfuscating.
No one cares about tooltips, the only part about sets that has any bearing on their usability is the practiced usage, the delusion lies in this fact, does my 40k vigor tooltip means vigor is overtuned? no it means I gave myself major mending and vitality on a trial dummy, tooltips only matter if you're making a build video.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 17 September 2024 16:42Fashion is the true endgame.PC EU2 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »...you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong.
A massive group of more players should be able to kill at least a few of a 12-person coordinated ball group. A second ball group, equally skilled and coordinated, should be able to kill at least a few of a 12-person coordinated ball group.
You might disagree, but this is my perspective. It's from this viewpoint that I think something like Azure is fine and was sorely needed.
The azure tooltip is higher, but it's also delayed and can be purged, while tarnished cannot and is used for ganking. They're really apples and oranges.
Your last statement shows that you don't understand the way azure works. The azure application is generally ground dots, purging azure does little to nothing to remedy the situation In addition to doing more dmg on explosion than tarnished, it also is generally going off far more often.
There is a fundamental misunderstanding of the way the set works.
Azure procs from *any* dot, not just ground dots. If you find you can't get out of ground dots that's probably a skill issue. And sticky dots can be purged.5 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Warrior's Fury
Caustic Arrow
Red Mountain
Sload's Semblance
Elf Bane
Zaan
Crimson Twilight
Relequen
Oakensoul
Storm Master
Sergeant's Mail
Sword Singer
Merciless Charge
Radial Uppercut
Spectral Cloak
Maarselok
Mara's Balm
Plaguebreak
Masters Weapons
Vateshran Ice Staff
Way of Fire
Rush of Agony
Dark Convergence
Flame Blossom
Tarnished Nightmare
Azureblight
...is too OP and makes PVP not fair because I keep dying and it is in my combat recap so nerf it. Oh, and please make more sets viable in PVP because so few are available and everyone uses the same meta.
8 -
Synapsis123✭✭✭✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »...you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong.
A massive group of more players should be able to kill at least a few of a 12-person coordinated ball group. A second ball group, equally skilled and coordinated, should be able to kill at least a few of a 12-person coordinated ball group.
You might disagree, but this is my perspective. It's from this viewpoint that I think something like Azure is fine and was sorely needed.
The azure tooltip is higher, but it's also delayed and can be purged, while tarnished cannot and is used for ganking. They're really apples and oranges.
Your last statement shows that you don't understand the way azure works. The azure application is generally ground dots, purging azure does little to nothing to remedy the situation In addition to doing more dmg on explosion than tarnished, it also is generally going off far more often.
There is a fundamental misunderstanding of the way the set works.
Azure procs from *any* dot, not just ground dots. If you find you can't get out of ground dots that's probably a skill issue. And sticky dots can be purged.
When you have 12 people chasing you spamming caltrops, wall of elements, and tons of other ground dots that tick every second, you can't really move out of them. Unless your pvp strat is to just constantly run away.
The azureblight debuff itself can't be purged, only the dots that proc the explosion. Purging in pvp would kill your group instantly though because of plaguebreak, so that option isn't available. Even if purging was available it is way easier, faster, and cheaper to apply debuffs than it is to purge them.2 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »...you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong.
A massive group of more players should be able to kill at least a few of a 12-person coordinated ball group. A second ball group, equally skilled and coordinated, should be able to kill at least a few of a 12-person coordinated ball group.
You might disagree, but this is my perspective. It's from this viewpoint that I think something like Azure is fine and was sorely needed.
The azure tooltip is higher, but it's also delayed and can be purged, while tarnished cannot and is used for ganking. They're really apples and oranges.
Your last statement shows that you don't understand the way azure works. The azure application is generally ground dots, purging azure does little to nothing to remedy the situation In addition to doing more dmg on explosion than tarnished, it also is generally going off far more often.
There is a fundamental misunderstanding of the way the set works.
Azure procs from *any* dot, not just ground dots. If you find you can't get out of ground dots that's probably a skill issue. And sticky dots can be purged.
The person said azure can be purged, my response was "generally ground dots" are what is being used in PvP azure builds, which cannot be purged. Why are you even saying it procs off any, not just ground dots. Yes, the sky is also blue, what does that have to do with the conversation taking place? You are just making random comments lol0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PureEnvelope35 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Major_Mangle wrote: »Except it isn´t busted vs 4 mans.
Confidently incorrect. Azureblight comps are the strongest 4v4 group comps, and its not even close.
Confidently incorrect, if Azureblight is wiping your 4 man there are far different problems(unless 8+ people are hitting your 4man with it), Acuity Magden while stacking up buff sets is much stronger.
In a 4 man comp Azureblight has almost no benefits when simply having 130%+ critical damage on one or two wardens will outdo Azureblight and other procs because well, 4v4 has far less scaling for sets that require a stack compared to having 2 high damage players with cross buffs.
Hate to break it to you, but there's a reason the sweaty BG crowd has a gentleman's agreement to not bring Azureblight comps to organized group BG nights. It's ridiculously busted. All you need is a single pull with 2 or 3 azureblights and there is literally nothing the enemy can do about it. It outpaces every other group damage setup in the game, even in 4v4v4s.1 -
Major_Toughness✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »PureEnvelope35 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Major_Mangle wrote: »Except it isn´t busted vs 4 mans.
Confidently incorrect. Azureblight comps are the strongest 4v4 group comps, and its not even close.
Confidently incorrect, if Azureblight is wiping your 4 man there are far different problems(unless 8+ people are hitting your 4man with it), Acuity Magden while stacking up buff sets is much stronger.
In a 4 man comp Azureblight has almost no benefits when simply having 130%+ critical damage on one or two wardens will outdo Azureblight and other procs because well, 4v4 has far less scaling for sets that require a stack compared to having 2 high damage players with cross buffs.
Hate to break it to you, but there's a reason the sweaty BG crowd has a gentleman's agreement to not bring Azureblight comps to organized group BG nights. It's ridiculously busted. All you need is a single pull with 2 or 3 azureblights and there is literally nothing the enemy can do about it. It outpaces every other group damage setup in the game, even in 4v4v4s.
or they don't take it because it isn't a good setup.
Hard to say on EU because no groups play BGs and even when they did, Azureblight died off long before due to all the changes to DoT tick frequencies being a huge nerf to the set.
But in Cyrodiil, my group of friends use it, and we have seen one other group use it, and it's really not effective against anything other than a zerg funneling into a chokepoint, or against a 12-man group well stacked.PC EU > You1 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Major_Toughness wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »PureEnvelope35 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Major_Mangle wrote: »Except it isn´t busted vs 4 mans.
Confidently incorrect. Azureblight comps are the strongest 4v4 group comps, and its not even close.
Confidently incorrect, if Azureblight is wiping your 4 man there are far different problems(unless 8+ people are hitting your 4man with it), Acuity Magden while stacking up buff sets is much stronger.
In a 4 man comp Azureblight has almost no benefits when simply having 130%+ critical damage on one or two wardens will outdo Azureblight and other procs because well, 4v4 has far less scaling for sets that require a stack compared to having 2 high damage players with cross buffs.
Hate to break it to you, but there's a reason the sweaty BG crowd has a gentleman's agreement to not bring Azureblight comps to organized group BG nights. It's ridiculously busted. All you need is a single pull with 2 or 3 azureblights and there is literally nothing the enemy can do about it. It outpaces every other group damage setup in the game, even in 4v4v4s.
or they don't take it because it isn't a good setup.
Hard to say on EU because no groups play BGs and even when they did, Azureblight died off long before due to all the changes to DoT tick frequencies being a huge nerf to the set.
But in Cyrodiil, my group of friends use it, and we have seen one other group use it, and it's really not effective against anything other than a zerg funneling into a chokepoint, or against a 12-man group well stacked.
You're right, it's definitely because it isn't good, that's why all of our groups have talked about not using it because it's OP.1 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »PureEnvelope35 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Major_Mangle wrote: »Except it isn´t busted vs 4 mans.
Confidently incorrect. Azureblight comps are the strongest 4v4 group comps, and its not even close.
Confidently incorrect, if Azureblight is wiping your 4 man there are far different problems(unless 8+ people are hitting your 4man with it), Acuity Magden while stacking up buff sets is much stronger.
In a 4 man comp Azureblight has almost no benefits when simply having 130%+ critical damage on one or two wardens will outdo Azureblight and other procs because well, 4v4 has far less scaling for sets that require a stack compared to having 2 high damage players with cross buffs.
Hate to break it to you, but there's a reason the sweaty BG crowd has a gentleman's agreement to not bring Azureblight comps to organized group BG nights. It's ridiculously busted. All you need is a single pull with 2 or 3 azureblights and there is literally nothing the enemy can do about it. It outpaces every other group damage setup in the game, even in 4v4v4s.
or they don't take it because it isn't a good setup.
Hard to say on EU because no groups play BGs and even when they did, Azureblight died off long before due to all the changes to DoT tick frequencies being a huge nerf to the set.
But in Cyrodiil, my group of friends use it, and we have seen one other group use it, and it's really not effective against anything other than a zerg funneling into a chokepoint, or against a 12-man group well stacked.
You're right, it's definitely because it isn't good, that's why all of our groups have talked about not using it because it's OP.
I have trouble believing PvPers are that selfless.4 -
Major_Toughness✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »PureEnvelope35 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Major_Mangle wrote: »Except it isn´t busted vs 4 mans.
Confidently incorrect. Azureblight comps are the strongest 4v4 group comps, and its not even close.
Confidently incorrect, if Azureblight is wiping your 4 man there are far different problems(unless 8+ people are hitting your 4man with it), Acuity Magden while stacking up buff sets is much stronger.
In a 4 man comp Azureblight has almost no benefits when simply having 130%+ critical damage on one or two wardens will outdo Azureblight and other procs because well, 4v4 has far less scaling for sets that require a stack compared to having 2 high damage players with cross buffs.
Hate to break it to you, but there's a reason the sweaty BG crowd has a gentleman's agreement to not bring Azureblight comps to organized group BG nights. It's ridiculously busted. All you need is a single pull with 2 or 3 azureblights and there is literally nothing the enemy can do about it. It outpaces every other group damage setup in the game, even in 4v4v4s.
or they don't take it because it isn't a good setup.
Hard to say on EU because no groups play BGs and even when they did, Azureblight died off long before due to all the changes to DoT tick frequencies being a huge nerf to the set.
But in Cyrodiil, my group of friends use it, and we have seen one other group use it, and it's really not effective against anything other than a zerg funneling into a chokepoint, or against a 12-man group well stacked.
You're right, it's definitely because it isn't good, that's why all of our groups have talked about not using it because it's OP.
Have any clips? Pictures of damage done/taken?
Surely SOMEONE must be using it still if it is that good.
There is a lot of anecdotes saying it's good but no actual numbers being posted.
Then against people say Tarnished is OP when it's average hit is about 5k so I guess Azureblight hits similar?PC EU > You0 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I just want to know why the line is azureblight and not rallying cry, or warding contingency, or using an ultimate in combat.1 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Major_Toughness wrote: »
Have any clips? Pictures of damage done/taken?
Surely SOMEONE must be using it still if it is that good.
There is a lot of anecdotes saying it's good but no actual numbers being posted.
Then against people say Tarnished is OP when it's average hit is about 5k so I guess Azureblight hits similar?
Here's a CMX of an Azureblight comp in a BG. The BG was only 2 teams, as the third never got in. Just this build did over 9 million damage against 4 players over the course of the 15 minute match. Extrapolate that out to all 3 damage dealers in the group - each person is dealing roughly the same amount of damage in an Azureblight comp (since everyone's build is more or less the same). It's ridiculous.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on 13 September 2024 21:571 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »
Have any clips? Pictures of damage done/taken?
Surely SOMEONE must be using it still if it is that good.
There is a lot of anecdotes saying it's good but no actual numbers being posted.
Then against people say Tarnished is OP when it's average hit is about 5k so I guess Azureblight hits similar?
Here's a CMX of an Azureblight comp in a BG. The BG was only 2 teams, as the third never got in. Just this build did over 9 million damage against 4 players over the course of the 15 minute match. Extrapolate that out to all 3 damage dealers in the group - each person is dealing roughly the same amount of damage in an Azureblight comp (since everyone's build is more or less the same). It's ridiculous.
And here's a scoreboard of another BG of just 2 people wearing Azureblight in the group. 5 and 6 million damage for the two Azureblight players. (This ones pretty funny, since 3 healers were put on one of the teams).Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on 13 September 2024 22:051 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »
Have any clips? Pictures of damage done/taken?
Surely SOMEONE must be using it still if it is that good.
There is a lot of anecdotes saying it's good but no actual numbers being posted.
Then against people say Tarnished is OP when it's average hit is about 5k so I guess Azureblight hits similar?
Here's a CMX of an Azureblight comp in a BG. The BG was only 2 teams, as the third never got in. Just this build did over 9 million damage against 4 players over the course of the 15 minute match. Extrapolate that out to all 3 damage dealers in the group - each person is dealing roughly the same amount of damage in an Azureblight comp (since everyone's build is more or less the same). It's ridiculous.
And here's a scoreboard of another 4v4(v1) BG of just 2 people wearing Azureblight in the group. 5 and 6 million damage for the two Azureblight players.
Still need more proof Azureblight is ridiculous? Just watch this video to see how fast it tears through other well-comped groups in BGs.
https://youtu.be/p5zvBEX-OHE Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on 13 September 2024 22:081 -
BananaBender✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »
Have any clips? Pictures of damage done/taken?
Surely SOMEONE must be using it still if it is that good.
There is a lot of anecdotes saying it's good but no actual numbers being posted.
Then against people say Tarnished is OP when it's average hit is about 5k so I guess Azureblight hits similar?
Here's a CMX of an Azureblight comp in a BG. The BG was only 2 teams, as the third never got in. Just this build did over 9 million damage against 4 players over the course of the 15 minute match. Extrapolate that out to all 3 damage dealers in the group - each person is dealing roughly the same amount of damage in an Azureblight comp (since everyone's build is more or less the same). It's ridiculous.
And here's a scoreboard of another BG of just 2 people wearing Azureblight in the group. 5 and 6 million damage for the two Azureblight players. (This ones pretty funny, since 3 healers were put on one of the teams).
I'm not much of a PvPer, but to me that looks like it doesn't do nearly enough damage. No one is dying to begin with and people want the damage to be reduced!? I will never understand PvP...5