Azureblight is Way Too OP – BG Update Will Make It Worse

radiostar · September 13

sarahthes wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

Yeah, everytime it's something that works for stamina, it get asked for a nerf. omg.

Azure is used by both mag and stam specs.

Yeah. I finally found something that work good for my stamina pvp battleground char a while back. Now it's asked to get a nerf

Urvoth · September 13

Pevey wrote: »

You’re stacking close together because you want to get those sweet, sweet cross heals and buffs. They make you unkillable, while you steamroll everything in your path as long as you stick together.

Except… people have figured out that 2-3 people running azure and everyone trying to put dots on you MIGHT be able to take some of you out. So, of course, we should expect that ball groups will complain that the ONE set that can kill them is OP. It’s only OP if you’re meaning there should be other sets buffed to work similarly, so that more than one set can kill you. One is not enough.

Except it's busted against 4 man groups as well, maybe even more so since they don't have as much healing or as many buffs

Oznog666 · September 13

And again somebody is asking for a nerf just because of PVP. ESO should really get rid off PVP OR only use different servers for this OR simply don't allow proc sets at all. We - all the guys not doing PVP - are really tired of this.

Blackbird_V · September 13

Oznog666 wrote: »

And again somebody is asking for a nerf just because of PVP. ESO should really get rid off PVP OR only use different servers for this OR simply don't allow proc sets at all. We - all the guys not doing PVP - are really tired of this.

When they initially announced the new pvp feature, I genuinely was hoping for a separation of PvE and PvP balancing. It really needs to be a thing already. Having the balancing crossover is really becoming *** tiresome. What's nerfed in PvP affects PvE and it's just getting old at this point.

Major_Mangle · September 13

Oznog666 wrote: »

And again somebody is asking for a nerf just because of PVP. ESO should really get rid off PVP OR only use different servers for this OR simply don't allow proc sets at all. We - all the guys not doing PVP - are really tired of this.

Majority of changes to sets the last couple of years has been because their "clever use" in PvE. I personally don´t mind ZOS not separating PvP and PvE, but let´s not pretend PvP is the culprit for most set changes.

Urvoth wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

You’re stacking close together because you want to get those sweet, sweet cross heals and buffs. They make you unkillable, while you steamroll everything in your path as long as you stick together.

Except… people have figured out that 2-3 people running azure and everyone trying to put dots on you MIGHT be able to take some of you out. So, of course, we should expect that ball groups will complain that the ONE set that can kill them is OP. It’s only OP if you’re meaning there should be other sets buffed to work similarly, so that more than one set can kill you. One is not enough.

Except it's busted against 4 man groups as well, maybe even more so since they don't have as much healing or as many buffs

Except it isn´t busted vs 4 mans. The set starts becoming strong once you´re using if vs group in the size range of 6-12 (and a good 6+ man can take on a faction stack when playing properly, so having counterplay vs that playstyle is only healthy for the game). The set has since long stopped being used in BG´s (last time it was meta in bg´s was 3+ years ago when tick rate of dots was 1 seconds and status effects and procs contributed to azureblight stacks). A 4-6 man with proper optimization should have little problem facing a few people using azureblight. Only time I can see it being oppressive is when it´s paired with a faction stack backing the azureblight users up, but at that point it´s not really a case of azureblight being too strong.

Would also like to see those "crazy" numbers some of you in here are referring to from the set when you´re in your 4 man groups.

ForumSavant · September 13

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Oznog666 wrote: »

And again somebody is asking for a nerf just because of PVP. ESO should really get rid off PVP OR only use different servers for this OR simply don't allow proc sets at all. We - all the guys not doing PVP - are really tired of this.

Majority of changes to sets the last couple of years has been because their "clever use" in PvE. I personally don´t mind ZOS not separating PvP and PvE, but let´s not pretend PvP is the culprit for most set changes.

Urvoth wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

You’re stacking close together because you want to get those sweet, sweet cross heals and buffs. They make you unkillable, while you steamroll everything in your path as long as you stick together.

Except… people have figured out that 2-3 people running azure and everyone trying to put dots on you MIGHT be able to take some of you out. So, of course, we should expect that ball groups will complain that the ONE set that can kill them is OP. It’s only OP if you’re meaning there should be other sets buffed to work similarly, so that more than one set can kill you. One is not enough.

Except it's busted against 4 man groups as well, maybe even more so since they don't have as much healing or as many buffs

Except it isn´t busted vs 4 mans. The set starts becoming strong once you´re using if vs group in the size range of 6-12 (and a good 6+ man can take on a faction stack when playing properly, so having counterplay vs that playstyle is only healthy for the game). The set has since long stopped being used in BG´s (last time it was meta in bg´s was 3+ years ago when tick rate of dots was 1 seconds and status effects and procs contributed to azureblight stacks). A 4-6 man with proper optimization should have little problem facing a few people using azureblight. Only time I can see it being oppressive is when it´s paired with a faction stack backing the azureblight users up, but at that point it´s not really a case of azureblight being too strong.

Would also like to see those "crazy" numbers some of you in here are referring to from the set when you´re in your 4 man groups.

You can just do the math from looking at your own tooltip. The base tooltip is higher than tarnished nightmare, that is without anyone around you. Every single person around just amplifies that damage. With 4 people the damage is nearly triple that of tarnished.

ApoAlaia · September 13

Oznog666 wrote: »

And again somebody is asking for a nerf just because of PVP. ESO should really get rid off PVP OR only use different servers for this OR simply don't allow proc sets at all. We - all the guys not doing PVP - are really tired of this.

It is easy to get carried away by frustration - I know I do myself - but in my opinion the requests for nerfs are largely irrelevant.

Based on what I've observed over the years although there has been correlation between 'requested nerfs' and 'enacted nerfs' on a few occasions it would seem to me that this was due to the fact that the matter was already in the dev team's radar and they were planning to do it all along regardless.

The way I see it, however noisy we may get, we have little actual sway in these matters. On a few instances the dev team has made minor adjustments based on feedback, but largely within their intended goals an parameters and only on those rare occasions when they actively sought feedback.

BananaBender · September 13

sarahthes wrote: »

Killing azureblight in PvE just kills set diversity more. Right now we have sets we use for aoe and sets we use for single target.

If we lose our aoe set the likelihood is we keep the other aoe set we've been running (depending on class) and run one of the single target sets we already use to boost the other aoe set more. So then we'd use 2 or 3 sets in PvE instead of 3 or 4.

They should just add "to monsters" to the proc condition line. It's a PvE sourced set so it should stay PvE.

I agree with this 100%.

It is by far the best set in fights where it works well, but it's not a slot and forget set to run in every encounter. It makes the build variety way more fun and engaging. You need to know when to use it to get the most out of it, and that's how all sets should be in my opinion. If Azureblight were to be nerfed sets like runecarver or deadly would just become sets that you run literally everywhere, thinning down the choices even more. Of course on paper Azureblight looks overpowered if you only look at logs, because the fights it works in are cleave focused fights where Azureblight gets to shine. Those are also the fights where you end up seeing the highest numbers due to cleave damage.

The only thing I dislike about Azure in PvE is how much is separates the good AoE classes from the bad ones. Let's take Arcanist and NB for example. Of course Arcanist is going to naturally deal more damage in AoE fights compared to NB, but this gap gets even further widened by sets like Azure. Meaning if you are playing a class that can't utilize Azureblight well, your damage is significantly lower. This isn't really the fault of Azureblight, since the same would happen with Runecarver as well. Right now it's a bit of a rich get richer situation.

Urvoth · September 13

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Oznog666 wrote: »

And again somebody is asking for a nerf just because of PVP. ESO should really get rid off PVP OR only use different servers for this OR simply don't allow proc sets at all. We - all the guys not doing PVP - are really tired of this.

Majority of changes to sets the last couple of years has been because their "clever use" in PvE. I personally don´t mind ZOS not separating PvP and PvE, but let´s not pretend PvP is the culprit for most set changes.

Urvoth wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

You’re stacking close together because you want to get those sweet, sweet cross heals and buffs. They make you unkillable, while you steamroll everything in your path as long as you stick together.

Except… people have figured out that 2-3 people running azure and everyone trying to put dots on you MIGHT be able to take some of you out. So, of course, we should expect that ball groups will complain that the ONE set that can kill them is OP. It’s only OP if you’re meaning there should be other sets buffed to work similarly, so that more than one set can kill you. One is not enough.

Except it's busted against 4 man groups as well, maybe even more so since they don't have as much healing or as many buffs

Except it isn´t busted vs 4 mans. The set starts becoming strong once you´re using if vs group in the size range of 6-12 (and a good 6+ man can take on a faction stack when playing properly, so having counterplay vs that playstyle is only healthy for the game). The set has since long stopped being used in BG´s (last time it was meta in bg´s was 3+ years ago when tick rate of dots was 1 seconds and status effects and procs contributed to azureblight stacks). A 4-6 man with proper optimization should have little problem facing a few people using azureblight. Only time I can see it being oppressive is when it´s paired with a faction stack backing the azureblight users up, but at that point it´s not really a case of azureblight being too strong.

Would also like to see those "crazy" numbers some of you in here are referring to from the set when you´re in your 4 man groups.

You’re rather out of touch with the premade bg meta if you think it hasn’t been used in years. It’s one of the most abused sets in premade setups, if not the most.

Pevey · September 13

It’s not “abuse.” It’s not an exploit. It’s not overtuned.

It’s a rock paper scissors game. If your opponents are not stacking, azure is worse than most other 5-piece set options. So the surefire counter to azure is to spread out. But with a team that is stacking, and using echoing and regen and one or two at least are warden tanks running polar wind… yeah, that is where azure fits the bill.

If that is not you, and someone is killing you with azure… SPREAD OUT.

forum_gpt · September 13

Pevey wrote: »

It’s not “abuse.” It’s not an exploit. It’s not overtuned.

It’s a rock paper scissors game. If your opponents are not stacking, azure is worse than most other 5-piece set options. So the surefire counter to azure is to spread out. But with a team that is stacking, and using echoing and regen and one or two at least are warden tanks running polar wind… yeah, that is where azure fits the bill.

If that is not you, and someone is killing you with azure… SPREAD OUT.

Ah, yes, because every situation in a complex game boils down to 'just spread out.' If only it were that simple, right? It's almost as if the developers intended more nuanced counterplay than merely running around like headless chickens. Sure, it’s a 'rock-paper-scissors' game—except when the scissors are clearly oversized, razor-sharp, and unbreakable, no matter how you try to spread your rocks. But I’m sure it’s not at all overtuned. Must just be the rest of us who haven’t mastered the fine art of flawless spacing, right?

Pevey · September 13

If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.

CameraBeardThePirate · September 13

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Except it isn´t busted vs 4 mans.

Confidently incorrect. Azureblight comps are the strongest 4v4 group comps, and its not even close.

Secilina · September 13

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Except it isn´t busted vs 4 mans.

Confidently incorrect. Azureblight comps are the strongest 4v4 group comps, and its not even close.

Confidently incorrect.

Urvoth · September 13

Pevey wrote: »

It’s not “abuse.” It’s not an exploit. It’s not overtuned.

It’s a rock paper scissors game. If your opponents are not stacking, azure is worse than most other 5-piece set options. So the surefire counter to azure is to spread out. But with a team that is stacking, and using echoing and regen and one or two at least are warden tanks running polar wind… yeah, that is where azure fits the bill.

If that is not you, and someone is killing you with azure… SPREAD OUT.

You do realize in a fight the other team members will be near each other, forcing your team members to also be near each other, right?

PureEnvelope35 · September 13

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Except it isn´t busted vs 4 mans.

Confidently incorrect. Azureblight comps are the strongest 4v4 group comps, and its not even close.

Confidently incorrect, if Azureblight is wiping your 4 man there are far different problems(unless 8+ people are hitting your 4man with it), Acuity Magden while stacking up buff sets is much stronger.

In a 4 man comp Azureblight has almost no benefits when simply having 130%+ critical damage on one or two wardens will outdo Azureblight and other procs because well, 4v4 has far less scaling for sets that require a stack compared to having 2 high damage players with cross buffs.

ForumSavant · September 13

Pevey wrote: »

If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.

You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.

[edited for baiting]

sarahthes · September 13

Sounds to me like people are arguing because the accepted metas on each server are vastly different.

Personally I find acuity wardens way more annoying than azureblight or tarnished or any other proc damage set, but I'm usually solo or duo so not normally stacked.

ForumSavant · September 13

sarahthes wrote: »

Sounds to me like people are arguing because the accepted metas on each server are vastly different.

Personally I find acuity wardens way more annoying than azureblight or tarnished or any other proc damage set, but I'm usually solo or duo so not normally stacked.

No, as someone who plays on both PC NA and PC EU, azure is the meta in both instances, at least by the groups that are performing better than others. Acuity magden is fine for ult dumping obviously, but most experienced players can live through the ult dump, the raw DPS of azureblight isn't something most groups can live through without having to sacrifice a lot of their own damage. All of the highest MMR BGs on both servers have azureblight as the highest DPS set on each team.

The people that are stating otherwise are people who aren't in the highest MMR BGs and are just stating otherwise because they don't want it touched.

The same is true for cyro on both servers, though it is used more on NA, but still has play on EU. It is by far the strongest DPS set for PvP unless you are fighting 2 people or less. You can log BGs just like you can log any trial or dungeon run, and if you look for players who are consistently in the highest MMR BGs, you will see azure is always the top DPS on any team that is using it.

For people saying "just don't stack" or person I should say. If you think the best groups in the game haven't though of or tried to play around this then obviously you aren't even taking the conversation seriously.

sarahthes · September 13

ForumSavant wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Sounds to me like people are arguing because the accepted metas on each server are vastly different.

Personally I find acuity wardens way more annoying than azureblight or tarnished or any other proc damage set, but I'm usually solo or duo so not normally stacked.

No, as someone who plays on both PC NA and PC EU, azure is the meta in both instances, at least by the groups that are performing better than others. Acuity magden is fine for ult dumping obviously, but most experienced players can live through the ult dump, the raw DPS of azureblight isn't something most groups can live through without having to sacrifice a lot of their own damage. All of the highest MMR BGs on both servers have azureblight as the highest DPS set on each team.

The people that are stating otherwise are people who aren't in the highest MMR BGs and are just stating otherwise because they don't want it touched.

The same is true for cyro on both servers, though it is used more on NA, but still has play on EU. It is by far the strongest DPS set for PvP unless you are fighting 2 people or less. You can log BGs just like you can log any trial or dungeon run, and if you look for players who are consistently in the highest MMR BGs, you will see azure is always the top DPS on any team that is using it.

For people saying "just don't stack" or person I should say. If you think the best groups in the game haven't though of or tried to play around this then obviously you aren't even taking the conversation seriously.

There's 6 servers, not 2. And I'm wondering if you're arguing with console players.

ForumSavant · September 13

sarahthes wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Sounds to me like people are arguing because the accepted metas on each server are vastly different.

Personally I find acuity wardens way more annoying than azureblight or tarnished or any other proc damage set, but I'm usually solo or duo so not normally stacked.

No, as someone who plays on both PC NA and PC EU, azure is the meta in both instances, at least by the groups that are performing better than others. Acuity magden is fine for ult dumping obviously, but most experienced players can live through the ult dump, the raw DPS of azureblight isn't something most groups can live through without having to sacrifice a lot of their own damage. All of the highest MMR BGs on both servers have azureblight as the highest DPS set on each team.

The people that are stating otherwise are people who aren't in the highest MMR BGs and are just stating otherwise because they don't want it touched.

The same is true for cyro on both servers, though it is used more on NA, but still has play on EU. It is by far the strongest DPS set for PvP unless you are fighting 2 people or less. You can log BGs just like you can log any trial or dungeon run, and if you look for players who are consistently in the highest MMR BGs, you will see azure is always the top DPS on any team that is using it.

For people saying "just don't stack" or person I should say. If you think the best groups in the game haven't though of or tried to play around this then obviously you aren't even taking the conversation seriously.

There's 6 servers, not 2. And I'm wondering if you're arguing with console players.

Yes, and the people arguing in this thread are PC. Are you going to tell us again how you can que into solo que and get placed into group que?

Pevey · September 13

ForumSavant wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.

You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.

You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.

The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.

It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.

Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.

[edited to remove quote]

sarahthes · September 13

ForumSavant wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Sounds to me like people are arguing because the accepted metas on each server are vastly different.

Personally I find acuity wardens way more annoying than azureblight or tarnished or any other proc damage set, but I'm usually solo or duo so not normally stacked.

No, as someone who plays on both PC NA and PC EU, azure is the meta in both instances, at least by the groups that are performing better than others. Acuity magden is fine for ult dumping obviously, but most experienced players can live through the ult dump, the raw DPS of azureblight isn't something most groups can live through without having to sacrifice a lot of their own damage. All of the highest MMR BGs on both servers have azureblight as the highest DPS set on each team.

The people that are stating otherwise are people who aren't in the highest MMR BGs and are just stating otherwise because they don't want it touched.

The same is true for cyro on both servers, though it is used more on NA, but still has play on EU. It is by far the strongest DPS set for PvP unless you are fighting 2 people or less. You can log BGs just like you can log any trial or dungeon run, and if you look for players who are consistently in the highest MMR BGs, you will see azure is always the top DPS on any team that is using it.

For people saying "just don't stack" or person I should say. If you think the best groups in the game haven't though of or tried to play around this then obviously you aren't even taking the conversation seriously.

There's 6 servers, not 2. And I'm wondering if you're arguing with console players.

Yes, and the people arguing in this thread are PC. Are you going to tell us again how you can que into solo que and get placed into group que?

All I know is it's happened to me, especially when queuing at 2 or 3am. Only once or twice, mind you. But it's definitely happened.

ForumSavant · September 13

Pevey wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.

You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.

You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.

The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.

It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.

Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.

As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.

The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."

[edited to remove quote]

sarahthes · September 13

ForumSavant wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.

You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.

You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.

The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.

It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.

Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.

As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.

The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."

I mean, in PvE when there's anti stack mechanics and damage we don't stack. Maybe PvP should try it.

I'd bet the PvP ballgroups that are made up of people who also play endgame PvE (because the 2 groups overlap far more than most PvPers would like to admit) are the ones who manage to unstack and live. They're probably also the ones who brought azureblight over into PvP, since in theory it should work on players exactly the same way it works on a 3 or 4 stack of aboms/Bahsei when the OT is pringling properly.

[edited to remove quote]

ForumSavant · September 13

sarahthes wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.

You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.

You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.

The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.

It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.

Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.

As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.

The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."

I mean, in PvE when there's anti stack mechanics and damage we don't stack. Maybe PvP should try it.

I'd bet the PvP ballgroups that are made up of people who also play endgame PvE (because the 2 groups overlap far more than most PvPers would like to admit) are the ones who manage to unstack and live. They're probably also the ones who brought azureblight over into PvP, since in theory it should work on players exactly the same way it works on a 3 or 4 stack of aboms/Bahsei when the OT is pringling properly.

"Maybe PvP should try it." Again, just zero engagement with the point.

The people you are arguing with probably have just as high if not higher PvE scores than you. You can say maybe PvPers should try it, but you don't play in the best PvE or PvP end game group. Why is your uninformed opinion and flawed engagement with the conversation more important? You don't even look at the logs to see the highest damage in PvE which is what you are saying you are at the end game of. There are people on the leaderboards right now that are top 1-36 in the latest 4 trials that do PvP, do you think they, people who have higher scores, just refuse to unstack when azure is on them?

[edited to remove quote]

Synapsis123 · September 13

sarahthes wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.

You aren't engaging at all. [snip] Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.

You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.

The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.

It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.

Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.

As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.

The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."

I mean, in PvE when there's anti stack mechanics and damage we don't stack. Maybe PvP should try it.

I'd bet the PvP ballgroups that are made up of people who also play endgame PvE (because the 2 groups overlap far more than most PvPers would like to admit) are the ones who manage to unstack and live. They're probably also the ones who brought azureblight over into PvP, since in theory it should work on players exactly the same way it works on a 3 or 4 stack of aboms/Bahsei when the OT is pringling properly.

The problem is its not just effective against ball groups, but against Pugs as well. Its basically the most effective set to use and stack on all players on your team when fighting anything over 3 players. It then ends up contributing 80%+ of the dps on those players. A proc set should not be the majority of your damage. There has never been a proc set that over tuned.

Sometimes I'll take combat logs for esologs website and check them after I play. Normally the majority of the damage I take is siege damage, but if players are using azureblight it completely eclipses the siege damage.

They changed plaguebreak to not apply to guards because it produced scenarios where you would instantly die with no counterplay. This set effectively does the same thing. Its not realistic to expect all players to stand 10 meters away from each other at all times. There simply isn't enough room in keeps, bridges, or resources to do that. If this set is left the way it is then you are forcing all players into using this set.

[edited to remove quote]

PureEnvelope35 · September 13

ForumSavant wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

If you are stacking and trying to coordinate, azure should only be able to put a dent in your health bar. The other team will still need to focus a single person down and execute. No, that is not OP. Working as intended.

You aren't engaging at all. I can't tell if you are trolling, uninformed, or just a psyop that knows azureblight is too strong and you think it should also be nerfed so you are here giving this as a fake steelman argument to why it shouldn't, showing that there is no defense at all for it. Your engagement with it is, "don't stack" but that's the equivalent to VD doing 1 billion damage on death and you saying, just don't be near people who die. Sure, but you are basically admitting it's too strong if that's your only argument. You are conceding that the damage to 4 people is too much, and to that, I agree, it needs to be nerfed.

You're throwing out numbers like 1 billion damage, and you're calling me a psyop? That is called projecting. Show some math behind this.

The number one complaint of people who tried PVP but said, nope, not for me is ball groups. There is literally nothing in the game that can stop them. Even azure alone is not enough, but it is one major tool in the toolbox. It is the only thing that can weaken a ball group and even make it possible to focus someone in the group down to kill them after they are weakened. Negates aren't enough, the group just moves out. There is this one and only possible counter.

It used to be that ball groups would just totally ignore other ball groups, because they were both unkillable and they knew it. They don't enjoy fighting players similar to themselves. No one else does either.

Now some guilds and semi-coordinated groups are learning to run azure, and you have some ball group fights now and then where people in the ball group can actually die. You can either adapt to this dynamic and also incorporate it into your group or you can ask to have it changed back to easy mode where you can never ever die.

As I have stated plenty of times before and you are just blatantly ignoring. Azureblight has a higher BASE tooltip than tarnished nightmare. What math has to be shown when 100 is higher than 75? The BASE tooltip is higher. This is before the per person scaling that makes it even higher. I am sure you're aware of this, and if you are not you can just log into the game, on any build, and check the tooltip values. I'm not going to post two separate screen shots and get accused of changing the numbers when the tooltip values will always be higher on azure.

The number one complaint of people should be ballgroups, you should not be able to kill 12 COORDINATED players just because you want to and because you think they are too strong. Of course they are too strong, it's 12 people with coordinated sets, probably in voice, calling what to do, where to go, who to go on, and who generally have a better understanding that the average player. With all this said, as I've already stated and you continue to ignore, it should do massive damage to 12 people, the issue is the damage it does to groups of only 4-6. It should not be as high as it is. You don't engage with this past "don't stack."

Pestilent Host has the highest DoT proc tooltip in the game and it rarely procs, not sure what point you're trying to make comparing tooltips, Tarnished Nightmare itself is hardly a good damage proc to go off of for damage as outside of the horrible sound it makes, all of my mates that play on high MMR BGs, as well as streamer friends who almost exclusively play BGs rarely if ever encounter Azureblight on EU side, hasn't been good in them for years so your point here is confusing.

If we're comparing proc set damage then Shadow of the Red Mountain should be one of the strongest yet it is only used by ranged gankers paired with Anthelmir's Construct, both of which have a higher damage tooltip than Azureblight and before the point gets brought up about Azureblight being AoE, Plaguebreak has stronger scaling and is often the reason that when my friends and I use Azureblight against 12 mans in Cyrodiil they fully wipe, when used in a 4v4 situation we have not once found Azureblight to scale better than just going for normal builds.

Azureblight is one of the strongest sets in PvE no one can argue that but in PvP, if a slow burn set like Azureblight causes you more issues than actual stat based builds with cross buffs, such as the 10 or so people on EU still playing group BGs will be running, [snip]

[edited for baiting]

LadyGP · September 13

The PvE vs PvP points are apples and oranges.

The biggest problem with Blight in PvP is the way the stacks add up - it's bugged IMO.

One person has 5 seconds to get to 20 stacks. However, ANYONE who has blight on buffs Player A's stack count. So player A could throw one dot on the ground and players B and C could throw some down and Player A's blight would still pop.

So when you multiply this to a 12 person comp it's essentially an infinite loop of blight. Throw in the fact there is no cool down and it's just... oof.

I think if they made blight so only player A can get their own blight to pop and not count player B-L's stacks then it would still hit hard but make it more difficult for players to get it to proc. There is no skill to get it to proc which I think is where the frustration comes in.

Synapsis123 · September 13

I'm trying to understand the objection people have to this set being tuned down a bit. Are you using this set exclusively in PvE and don't want it nerfed because its too powerful in PvP or do you believe this set is fine for pvp?

No other proc set could produce even a fraction of the damage of this set, it only gets stronger when stacked, and it ends up producing 40K+ burst resulting in players instantly dying.