What the Hell is all the different trading guilds? It should be all one spot to trade everything lik

FlopsyPrince

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Decentralized trade has kept prices at a good level for years on console. We never had an inflation problem. If anything, all the huge gold sinks they introduced to combat PCs issues has caused prices to lower on the majority of items.

Please present more evidence for this than just asserting it.

Decentralized trade is the economy on console. It is consistently the case across both consoles that prices are low and inflation is low.

PC, through the use of add-ons, has both an easier time generating coin and centralized trade through add-ons. And it has had, until more recently, large amounts of inflation. These are the things that make it different to console.

In addition, most MMOs feature centralized trade. And they all have the same exact problem with inflation that PC has.

If the older games with centralized trade all have inflation problems that are generally accepted as normal for old games, and the old game that doesn't have it does not face these problems, then chances are strong that similar economic systems are naturally facing similar economic problems due to issues inherent to these systems.

On console, for example, some years ago we used to see rosin regularly sold at around 5k. Prior to the guild store changes they were selling at around 2.5 to 3k. Currently they are around 2k. This is a result of both mat botting, but also due to the coin sinks. Console never made as much coin as PC, as there was no lazy writ add-on.

Logically, we can also see some very obvious reasons as to why this might be the case.

Decentralized trade means that a greater number of competitors can exist in the system, just numerically. And we know that competition naturally keeps prices more competitive. That's a pretty basic concept. It's one of the many reasons monopolies aren't great.

A basic trading principle in online games is to buy low and sell high. Which leads to a few people (relative to the size of the population) buying up items for the purpose of increasing their price. Naturally, the less people that do this, the less impact it has on a market.

Your arguments don't make a solid case, just show some things that have not gone up in price. Crowns are also sold much cheaper (when that happens) on Console, but no game system helps that.

I am still not seeing the reason why letting the few benefit at the expense of the many, as the current system does, adds value. I do see many repeated assertions of that, but no firm evidence.

And your argument that console does not see the inflation you bring up on PC goes against your point. PC has the same trader system, thus it is not the existence of this trader system that limits anything.

And exactly how does the few benefit from the many? They don't. They benefit from the time and effort they put into trading. Just like players who get on the trial leader boards benefit from time and effort not from the many other players that don't make the list. It is much the same thing. The more time you spend on one aspect of the game the better you get.

People across multiple threads have given you good and logically sound reasons this system works and why going to a central system would be devastating. You disregard those answers because they don't fit into your wish to get everything you want at a low low price. Truth is a central system wouldn't give you that either. For rare items you would be paying even more because they would be easier to control.
Sure we could use some quality of life changes especially for consoles. The system though is sound and the economy is healthy. We have an engaging trading system that keeps many players in the game and active. Entire guilds are built around the trading system and there would be no benefit to removing how we trade now.

I was merely responding to the argument, not noting the likelihood of change. I understand that things are not likely to change much, unfortunately, but do continue to claim this is better is not accurate and I do oppose that claim, especially errant claims that it has kept prices down.

Note that the TTC addon can be helpful, but is far from a perfect solution and still leaves the "where the heck is it" problem with many items, even those it shows as being sold!

Northwold

I think it's fair to say that on trading there are two hugely polarising issues that make this topic controversial.

1. The lack of an ability to search for items globally, regionally, or in some way that is more comprehensive than one trader at a time.

2. The need for players to sign up to guilds controlled by other players to be able to sell via the trading system itself.

As people have said in this thread and the many, many others on the subject, ZOS seem to have very little interest in moving to a full auction house. Presumably because they feel the game's trading system gives ESO a unique flavour, but also to pull people into joining guilds (which, in my view, begs the question -- if THAT's the reason needed to make people guild up, shouldn't work be put into finding other ways to make guild membership attractive?).

But there are obvious compromises available to address BOTH the core issues without compromising the fundamental character of the system (and without moving to an auction house) that ZOS appear to have no interest whatever in even exploring. And that I find completely baffling.

(For those wanting to know what such compromises might be, among those discussed here in the past have been by-region searching for the search issue, and some form of highly disadvantaged NPC controlled traders that operate in the same way as guild traders but with eg very high taxes, accessible to all players regardless of guild membership.)

The trading system alienates a whole slice of the player base as it is presently set up. And it's not some kind of optional extra to MMO design like, say, Tales of Tribute. Trading is more or less fundamental to how MMOs are supposed to operate in that what you get from trading supplements near enough every activity in the game!

katanagirl1

Northwold wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that on trading there are two hugely polarising issues that make this topic controversial.

1. The lack of an ability to search for items globally, regionally, or in some way that is more comprehensive than one trader at a time.

2. The need for players to sign up to guilds controlled by other players to be able to sell via the trading system itself.

As people have said in this thread and the many, many others on the subject, ZOS seem to have very little interest in moving to a full auction house. Presumably because they feel the game's trading system gives ESO a unique flavour, but also to pull people into joining guilds (which, in my view, begs the question -- if THAT's the reason needed to make people guild up, shouldn't work be put into finding other ways to make guild membership attractive?).

But there are obvious compromises available to address BOTH the core issues without compromising the fundamental character of the system (and without moving to an auction house) that ZOS appear to have no interest whatever in even exploring. And that I find completely baffling.

(For those wanting to know what such compromises might be, among those discussed here in the past have been by-region searching for the search issue, and some form of highly disadvantaged NPC controlled traders that operate in the same way as guild traders but with eg very high taxes, accessible to all players regardless of guild membership.)

The trading system alienates a whole slice of the player base as it is presently set up. And it's not some kind of optional extra to MMO design like, say, Tales of Tribute. Trading is more or less fundamental to how MMOs are supposed to operate in that what you get from trading supplements near enough every activity in the game!

I think the argument for joining guilds for trading is like the argument for grouping for hard content in an MMO.

You can form your own group and use group voice chat or use the group finder and type in text chat or even not bother. You can join a social guild and do trading and other activities or you can find a guild for trading that does not require chat. There is something for everyone in both cases.

FlopsyPrince

I use my guilds for crafting sets in guild housing and some selling. I donate regularly, so it is a gold sink, but I am not one to heavily interact otherwise.

And I am in some very nice guilds!

I think ZOS will keep the current system because it is there, plain and simple. Changing anything, even providing TTC-like functionality in the game, appears to be more than they are willing to do even though knowing where something is and a reasonable price to buy/sell it at would help a great many of us.

Like many things in the game, a lot of the concern ZOS should have is not reflected in enhancements to the game.

And yeah, I could play something else, but nothing else has pulled me in, so I stay here, for now at least.

shadyjane62

Never use the terrible guild trading system. I want an Auction House because it is centralized. I do not want to spend hours going from trader to trader looking for something.

FlopsyPrince

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Never use the terrible guild trading system. I want an Auction House because it is centralized. I do not want to spend hours going from trader to trader looking for something.

I have made this case for years, yet many still stick with the "but it is better this way" idea. Shows how bad the current system is. Even things telling us where to find things have not been put in the game itself!

Horny_Poney

I just spent more than an hour to tour several dozens of traders, in search of 1 specific item. It was really fun (no).

Horny_Poney

I have a fantastic idea: why not forbid all trader-related addons, like TTC, and see what happens? I’m sure this thread will get some traction suddenly.

TaSheen

Horny_Poney wrote: »

I have a fantastic idea: why not forbid all trader-related addons, like TTC, and see what happens? I’m sure this thread will get some traction suddenly.

Fine with me. I don't use the whole trader thing, and I also don't use any of the addons.

Hapexamendios

Horny_Poney wrote: »

I have a fantastic idea: why not forbid all trader-related addons, like TTC, and see what happens? I’m sure this thread will get some traction suddenly.

For those of us on console it would make no difference.

Horny_Poney

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Horny_Poney wrote: »

I have a fantastic idea: why not forbid all trader-related addons, like TTC, and see what happens? I’m sure this thread will get some traction suddenly.

For those of us on console it would make no difference.

Yep, that’s my point, I’m on console, but a lot of PC players would see what it is like for the rest of us.

FlopsyPrince

Horny_Poney wrote: »

I have a fantastic idea: why not forbid all trader-related addons, like TTC, and see what happens? I’m sure this thread will get some traction suddenly.

TTC only helps a bit. It will frequently note many sites where the item has long since sold.

Ph1p

Horny_Poney wrote: »

I have a fantastic idea: why not forbid all trader-related addons, like TTC, and see what happens? I’m sure this thread will get some traction suddenly.

Why not make those tools into base-game QoL features for everyone and see what happens?

Thoriorz

Hi, my opinion on ESO trading (or trading system) is that I don't like it.
On the one hand I would welcome one (or 2-3) big global AH but then again I'm not at the stage of outright hating the system in ESO.
I am not a supporter (I don't like it) of this system but I can't say I hate it either, I just accept the current state of trading in ESO.

The fact that the trading system in ESO is ok for me is mainly thanks to the addon and also thanks to the TTC website. If this site or addon was not there I would hate this system and probably would not sell anything and buy only necessary things and ať minimum quantity but thanks to TTC this system is tolerable for me.

However, there are some things I don't like at all that should be changed (just my opinion).

Outlaw refuge traders, this is one thing I hate, you have to go to an entrance, then loading screen, then find a trader and back again. Personally when buying things in larger quantities like Motifs for alts etc so outlaw refuge traders are completely skipped. When there is a 15k motif in Vivec city and somewhere in outlaw refuge the same motif for 10k, I go to Vivec city so I don't really like those traders in outlaw refuges. (I practically hate them )

This also applies to traders far from wayshrine, for example those in Wrothgar, in that Morkul stronghold (or whatever it's called), I'm leaving those out completely.
Still traders like in S. Elsweyr in Senchal are OK because on the one hand they are not a few steps away from the wayshrine but again not too far.

What would I do? At the very least, move all the outlaw refuge traders to locations near the wayhrines, if only for quality of life.
I'd also change the position of those far from the wayshrine in cities like Orsinium etc. closer to the wayshrine so that if players have to run around at least the traders are as close to the wayshrine as possible, yknow.
For example the trader at Firebrand keep in Stormhaven is fine, it's in a random place on the map but the trader itself is a few steps away from the wayshrine so fine for me.

So this is how I see this trading system in ESO and I would welcome at least the small changes described above in the positions of some traders.

kargen27

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Decentralized trade has kept prices at a good level for years on console. We never had an inflation problem. If anything, all the huge gold sinks they introduced to combat PCs issues has caused prices to lower on the majority of items.

Please present more evidence for this than just asserting it.

Decentralized trade is the economy on console. It is consistently the case across both consoles that prices are low and inflation is low.

PC, through the use of add-ons, has both an easier time generating coin and centralized trade through add-ons. And it has had, until more recently, large amounts of inflation. These are the things that make it different to console.

In addition, most MMOs feature centralized trade. And they all have the same exact problem with inflation that PC has.

If the older games with centralized trade all have inflation problems that are generally accepted as normal for old games, and the old game that doesn't have it does not face these problems, then chances are strong that similar economic systems are naturally facing similar economic problems due to issues inherent to these systems.

On console, for example, some years ago we used to see rosin regularly sold at around 5k. Prior to the guild store changes they were selling at around 2.5 to 3k. Currently they are around 2k. This is a result of both mat botting, but also due to the coin sinks. Console never made as much coin as PC, as there was no lazy writ add-on.

Logically, we can also see some very obvious reasons as to why this might be the case.

Decentralized trade means that a greater number of competitors can exist in the system, just numerically. And we know that competition naturally keeps prices more competitive. That's a pretty basic concept. It's one of the many reasons monopolies aren't great.

A basic trading principle in online games is to buy low and sell high. Which leads to a few people (relative to the size of the population) buying up items for the purpose of increasing their price. Naturally, the less people that do this, the less impact it has on a market.

Your arguments don't make a solid case, just show some things that have not gone up in price. Crowns are also sold much cheaper (when that happens) on Console, but no game system helps that.

I am still not seeing the reason why letting the few benefit at the expense of the many, as the current system does, adds value. I do see many repeated assertions of that, but no firm evidence.

And your argument that console does not see the inflation you bring up on PC goes against your point. PC has the same trader system, thus it is not the existence of this trader system that limits anything.

And exactly how does the few benefit from the many? They don't. They benefit from the time and effort they put into trading. Just like players who get on the trial leader boards benefit from time and effort not from the many other players that don't make the list. It is much the same thing. The more time you spend on one aspect of the game the better you get.

People across multiple threads have given you good and logically sound reasons this system works and why going to a central system would be devastating. You disregard those answers because they don't fit into your wish to get everything you want at a low low price. Truth is a central system wouldn't give you that either. For rare items you would be paying even more because they would be easier to control.
Sure we could use some quality of life changes especially for consoles. The system though is sound and the economy is healthy. We have an engaging trading system that keeps many players in the game and active. Entire guilds are built around the trading system and there would be no benefit to removing how we trade now.

I was merely responding to the argument, not noting the likelihood of change. I understand that things are not likely to change much, unfortunately, but do continue to claim this is better is not accurate and I do oppose that claim, especially errant claims that it has kept prices down.

Note that the TTC addon can be helpful, but is far from a perfect solution and still leaves the "where the heck is it" problem with many items, even those it shows as being sold!

My question had nothing to do with whether or not a change would be made. My question was how is the few benefiting from the many.
Another question. When it comes to rare and semi rare items which system would make it harder to control the market and force price increases, a central system or a system with over 200 locations?
Prices for those items would increase. Market domination on rare items does take place in other games with a single location. And this system is better simply because it is more engaging and hasn't sacrificed the health of the economy. We have a strong economy and a system in place that is for many players why they play. So even if the actual market stability between the two systems were a was this is the superior system for the way it lets people play.

xilfxlegion

an auction house would put everything in one location - but, it would make it easier for rich people like myself to control the market - which has been proven on every game with an auction house.

you do not have to go to every trader to find things - you can buy and sell in chat - you can pot in zone chat what you are looking for and more than likely someone will have it.

you can buy and sell in this game just fine without ever joining a guild if you dont want to. its not that hard.

FlopsyPrince

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Decentralized trade has kept prices at a good level for years on console. We never had an inflation problem. If anything, all the huge gold sinks they introduced to combat PCs issues has caused prices to lower on the majority of items.

Please present more evidence for this than just asserting it.

Decentralized trade is the economy on console. It is consistently the case across both consoles that prices are low and inflation is low.

PC, through the use of add-ons, has both an easier time generating coin and centralized trade through add-ons. And it has had, until more recently, large amounts of inflation. These are the things that make it different to console.

In addition, most MMOs feature centralized trade. And they all have the same exact problem with inflation that PC has.

If the older games with centralized trade all have inflation problems that are generally accepted as normal for old games, and the old game that doesn't have it does not face these problems, then chances are strong that similar economic systems are naturally facing similar economic problems due to issues inherent to these systems.

On console, for example, some years ago we used to see rosin regularly sold at around 5k. Prior to the guild store changes they were selling at around 2.5 to 3k. Currently they are around 2k. This is a result of both mat botting, but also due to the coin sinks. Console never made as much coin as PC, as there was no lazy writ add-on.

Logically, we can also see some very obvious reasons as to why this might be the case.

Decentralized trade means that a greater number of competitors can exist in the system, just numerically. And we know that competition naturally keeps prices more competitive. That's a pretty basic concept. It's one of the many reasons monopolies aren't great.

A basic trading principle in online games is to buy low and sell high. Which leads to a few people (relative to the size of the population) buying up items for the purpose of increasing their price. Naturally, the less people that do this, the less impact it has on a market.

Your arguments don't make a solid case, just show some things that have not gone up in price. Crowns are also sold much cheaper (when that happens) on Console, but no game system helps that.

I am still not seeing the reason why letting the few benefit at the expense of the many, as the current system does, adds value. I do see many repeated assertions of that, but no firm evidence.

And your argument that console does not see the inflation you bring up on PC goes against your point. PC has the same trader system, thus it is not the existence of this trader system that limits anything.

And exactly how does the few benefit from the many? They don't. They benefit from the time and effort they put into trading. Just like players who get on the trial leader boards benefit from time and effort not from the many other players that don't make the list. It is much the same thing. The more time you spend on one aspect of the game the better you get.

People across multiple threads have given you good and logically sound reasons this system works and why going to a central system would be devastating. You disregard those answers because they don't fit into your wish to get everything you want at a low low price. Truth is a central system wouldn't give you that either. For rare items you would be paying even more because they would be easier to control.
Sure we could use some quality of life changes especially for consoles. The system though is sound and the economy is healthy. We have an engaging trading system that keeps many players in the game and active. Entire guilds are built around the trading system and there would be no benefit to removing how we trade now.

I was merely responding to the argument, not noting the likelihood of change. I understand that things are not likely to change much, unfortunately, but do continue to claim this is better is not accurate and I do oppose that claim, especially errant claims that it has kept prices down.

Note that the TTC addon can be helpful, but is far from a perfect solution and still leaves the "where the heck is it" problem with many items, even those it shows as being sold!

My question had nothing to do with whether or not a change would be made. My question was how is the few benefiting from the many.
Another question. When it comes to rare and semi rare items which system would make it harder to control the market and force price increases, a central system or a system with over 200 locations?
Prices for those items would increase. Market domination on rare items does take place in other games with a single location. And this system is better simply because it is more engaging and hasn't sacrificed the health of the economy. We have a strong economy and a system in place that is for many players why they play. So even if the actual market stability between the two systems were a was this is the superior system for the way it lets people play.

I was not arguing your point, I was just noting that some think TTC solves the problems, when even it does not.

FlopsyPrince

xilfxlegion wrote: »

an auction house would put everything in one location - but, it would make it easier for rich people like myself to control the market - which has been proven on every game with an auction house.

you do not have to go to every trader to find things - you can buy and sell in chat - you can pot in zone chat what you are looking for and more than likely someone will have it.

you can buy and sell in this game just fine without ever joining a guild if you dont want to. its not that hard.

So you claim, but that is simply not true anymore than it is now. Hidden information means some profit at the expense of everyone else. That is true in life and a game.

Necrotech_Master

xilfxlegion wrote: »

an auction house would put everything in one location - but, it would make it easier for rich people like myself to control the market - which has been proven on every game with an auction house.

you do not have to go to every trader to find things - you can buy and sell in chat - you can pot in zone chat what you are looking for and more than likely someone will have it.

you can buy and sell in this game just fine without ever joining a guild if you dont want to. its not that hard.

this is exactly what would happen, ive seen it happen too

i would rather be able to buy stuff for reasonable prices than every item costing insane quantities of currency

kargen27

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Decentralized trade has kept prices at a good level for years on console. We never had an inflation problem. If anything, all the huge gold sinks they introduced to combat PCs issues has caused prices to lower on the majority of items.

Please present more evidence for this than just asserting it.

Decentralized trade is the economy on console. It is consistently the case across both consoles that prices are low and inflation is low.

PC, through the use of add-ons, has both an easier time generating coin and centralized trade through add-ons. And it has had, until more recently, large amounts of inflation. These are the things that make it different to console.

In addition, most MMOs feature centralized trade. And they all have the same exact problem with inflation that PC has.

If the older games with centralized trade all have inflation problems that are generally accepted as normal for old games, and the old game that doesn't have it does not face these problems, then chances are strong that similar economic systems are naturally facing similar economic problems due to issues inherent to these systems.

On console, for example, some years ago we used to see rosin regularly sold at around 5k. Prior to the guild store changes they were selling at around 2.5 to 3k. Currently they are around 2k. This is a result of both mat botting, but also due to the coin sinks. Console never made as much coin as PC, as there was no lazy writ add-on.

Logically, we can also see some very obvious reasons as to why this might be the case.

Decentralized trade means that a greater number of competitors can exist in the system, just numerically. And we know that competition naturally keeps prices more competitive. That's a pretty basic concept. It's one of the many reasons monopolies aren't great.

A basic trading principle in online games is to buy low and sell high. Which leads to a few people (relative to the size of the population) buying up items for the purpose of increasing their price. Naturally, the less people that do this, the less impact it has on a market.

Your arguments don't make a solid case, just show some things that have not gone up in price. Crowns are also sold much cheaper (when that happens) on Console, but no game system helps that.

I am still not seeing the reason why letting the few benefit at the expense of the many, as the current system does, adds value. I do see many repeated assertions of that, but no firm evidence.

And your argument that console does not see the inflation you bring up on PC goes against your point. PC has the same trader system, thus it is not the existence of this trader system that limits anything.

And exactly how does the few benefit from the many? They don't. They benefit from the time and effort they put into trading. Just like players who get on the trial leader boards benefit from time and effort not from the many other players that don't make the list. It is much the same thing. The more time you spend on one aspect of the game the better you get.

People across multiple threads have given you good and logically sound reasons this system works and why going to a central system would be devastating. You disregard those answers because they don't fit into your wish to get everything you want at a low low price. Truth is a central system wouldn't give you that either. For rare items you would be paying even more because they would be easier to control.
Sure we could use some quality of life changes especially for consoles. The system though is sound and the economy is healthy. We have an engaging trading system that keeps many players in the game and active. Entire guilds are built around the trading system and there would be no benefit to removing how we trade now.

I was merely responding to the argument, not noting the likelihood of change. I understand that things are not likely to change much, unfortunately, but do continue to claim this is better is not accurate and I do oppose that claim, especially errant claims that it has kept prices down.

Note that the TTC addon can be helpful, but is far from a perfect solution and still leaves the "where the heck is it" problem with many items, even those it shows as being sold!

My question had nothing to do with whether or not a change would be made. My question was how is the few benefiting from the many.
Another question. When it comes to rare and semi rare items which system would make it harder to control the market and force price increases, a central system or a system with over 200 locations?
Prices for those items would increase. Market domination on rare items does take place in other games with a single location. And this system is better simply because it is more engaging and hasn't sacrificed the health of the economy. We have a strong economy and a system in place that is for many players why they play. So even if the actual market stability between the two systems were a was this is the superior system for the way it lets people play.

I was not arguing your point, I was just noting that some think TTC solves the problems, when even it does not.

yes, but you stated the few were benefitting from the many. I want to know how they are doing that.

JavaRen

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Decentralized trade has kept prices at a good level for years on console. We never had an inflation problem. If anything, all the huge gold sinks they introduced to combat PCs issues has caused prices to lower on the majority of items.

Please present more evidence for this than just asserting it.

Decentralized trade is the economy on console. It is consistently the case across both consoles that prices are low and inflation is low.

PC, through the use of add-ons, has both an easier time generating coin and centralized trade through add-ons. And it has had, until more recently, large amounts of inflation. These are the things that make it different to console.

In addition, most MMOs feature centralized trade. And they all have the same exact problem with inflation that PC has.

If the older games with centralized trade all have inflation problems that are generally accepted as normal for old games, and the old game that doesn't have it does not face these problems, then chances are strong that similar economic systems are naturally facing similar economic problems due to issues inherent to these systems.

On console, for example, some years ago we used to see rosin regularly sold at around 5k. Prior to the guild store changes they were selling at around 2.5 to 3k. Currently they are around 2k. This is a result of both mat botting, but also due to the coin sinks. Console never made as much coin as PC, as there was no lazy writ add-on.

Logically, we can also see some very obvious reasons as to why this might be the case.

Decentralized trade means that a greater number of competitors can exist in the system, just numerically. And we know that competition naturally keeps prices more competitive. That's a pretty basic concept. It's one of the many reasons monopolies aren't great.

A basic trading principle in online games is to buy low and sell high. Which leads to a few people (relative to the size of the population) buying up items for the purpose of increasing their price. Naturally, the less people that do this, the less impact it has on a market.

Your arguments don't make a solid case, just show some things that have not gone up in price. Crowns are also sold much cheaper (when that happens) on Console, but no game system helps that.

I am still not seeing the reason why letting the few benefit at the expense of the many, as the current system does, adds value. I do see many repeated assertions of that, but no firm evidence.

And your argument that console does not see the inflation you bring up on PC goes against your point. PC has the same trader system, thus it is not the existence of this trader system that limits anything.

And exactly how does the few benefit from the many? They don't. They benefit from the time and effort they put into trading. Just like players who get on the trial leader boards benefit from time and effort not from the many other players that don't make the list. It is much the same thing. The more time you spend on one aspect of the game the better you get.

People across multiple threads have given you good and logically sound reasons this system works and why going to a central system would be devastating. You disregard those answers because they don't fit into your wish to get everything you want at a low low price. Truth is a central system wouldn't give you that either. For rare items you would be paying even more because they would be easier to control.
Sure we could use some quality of life changes especially for consoles. The system though is sound and the economy is healthy. We have an engaging trading system that keeps many players in the game and active. Entire guilds are built around the trading system and there would be no benefit to removing how we trade now.

I was merely responding to the argument, not noting the likelihood of change. I understand that things are not likely to change much, unfortunately, but do continue to claim this is better is not accurate and I do oppose that claim, especially errant claims that it has kept prices down.

Note that the TTC addon can be helpful, but is far from a perfect solution and still leaves the "where the heck is it" problem with many items, even those it shows as being sold!

My question had nothing to do with whether or not a change would be made. My question was how is the few benefiting from the many.
Another question. When it comes to rare and semi rare items which system would make it harder to control the market and force price increases, a central system or a system with over 200 locations?
Prices for those items would increase. Market domination on rare items does take place in other games with a single location. And this system is better simply because it is more engaging and hasn't sacrificed the health of the economy. We have a strong economy and a system in place that is for many players why they play. So even if the actual market stability between the two systems were a was this is the superior system for the way it lets people play.

I was not arguing your point, I was just noting that some think TTC solves the problems, when even it does not.

yes, but you stated the few were benefitting from the many. I want to know how they are doing that.

I'd also like to hear about how this is done, several years of membership in trade guilds hasn't taught me yet (also waiting to my invite to the cartels that control the guild stores)

Lumsdenml

Scott86 wrote: »

like Everquest. I thought 430 people may not be enough people to buy all that I want to sell on there, especially lower level things.

And it won't let me search by faction; the search for it isn't working. So, I can't get to the one I want easily.

No no no no no. Hard no. The current system protects from monopoly and inflation.

wolfie1.0.

A GAH just isn't going to happen.

ZOS is more likely to make everything BOP before they make that step.

My reasoning? All of the QOL improvements have been geared in that direction: ie reconstruction, curation, decreased listing times. All things that counter an open market. Even bound event pages from the anniversary event lean that way.

We also know that trade volumes put strain on the servers due to peak volumes that have been encountered, as well as queries to the system. Some of this has been addressed but again the listing limit decrease suggests that it's still a problem and nearly at its limit.

Also keep in mind that in any given trade guild there are empty slots or people that never really trade regularly so there is empty capacity yet more restrictions are being placed.

Basically, unless ZOS does a complete overhaul of the items available in game and invests heavily into both more efficient coding around trading and servers to back it up, it's never going to happen.

I honestly would prefer a more open system myself, it's less work than running a trade guild. But I also would prefer that BOP doesn't exist in the game either.

FlopsyPrince

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Decentralized trade has kept prices at a good level for years on console. We never had an inflation problem. If anything, all the huge gold sinks they introduced to combat PCs issues has caused prices to lower on the majority of items.

Please present more evidence for this than just asserting it.

Decentralized trade is the economy on console. It is consistently the case across both consoles that prices are low and inflation is low.

PC, through the use of add-ons, has both an easier time generating coin and centralized trade through add-ons. And it has had, until more recently, large amounts of inflation. These are the things that make it different to console.

In addition, most MMOs feature centralized trade. And they all have the same exact problem with inflation that PC has.

If the older games with centralized trade all have inflation problems that are generally accepted as normal for old games, and the old game that doesn't have it does not face these problems, then chances are strong that similar economic systems are naturally facing similar economic problems due to issues inherent to these systems.

On console, for example, some years ago we used to see rosin regularly sold at around 5k. Prior to the guild store changes they were selling at around 2.5 to 3k. Currently they are around 2k. This is a result of both mat botting, but also due to the coin sinks. Console never made as much coin as PC, as there was no lazy writ add-on.

Logically, we can also see some very obvious reasons as to why this might be the case.

Decentralized trade means that a greater number of competitors can exist in the system, just numerically. And we know that competition naturally keeps prices more competitive. That's a pretty basic concept. It's one of the many reasons monopolies aren't great.

A basic trading principle in online games is to buy low and sell high. Which leads to a few people (relative to the size of the population) buying up items for the purpose of increasing their price. Naturally, the less people that do this, the less impact it has on a market.

Your arguments don't make a solid case, just show some things that have not gone up in price. Crowns are also sold much cheaper (when that happens) on Console, but no game system helps that.

I am still not seeing the reason why letting the few benefit at the expense of the many, as the current system does, adds value. I do see many repeated assertions of that, but no firm evidence.

And your argument that console does not see the inflation you bring up on PC goes against your point. PC has the same trader system, thus it is not the existence of this trader system that limits anything.

And exactly how does the few benefit from the many? They don't. They benefit from the time and effort they put into trading. Just like players who get on the trial leader boards benefit from time and effort not from the many other players that don't make the list. It is much the same thing. The more time you spend on one aspect of the game the better you get.

People across multiple threads have given you good and logically sound reasons this system works and why going to a central system would be devastating. You disregard those answers because they don't fit into your wish to get everything you want at a low low price. Truth is a central system wouldn't give you that either. For rare items you would be paying even more because they would be easier to control.
Sure we could use some quality of life changes especially for consoles. The system though is sound and the economy is healthy. We have an engaging trading system that keeps many players in the game and active. Entire guilds are built around the trading system and there would be no benefit to removing how we trade now.

I was merely responding to the argument, not noting the likelihood of change. I understand that things are not likely to change much, unfortunately, but do continue to claim this is better is not accurate and I do oppose that claim, especially errant claims that it has kept prices down.

Note that the TTC addon can be helpful, but is far from a perfect solution and still leaves the "where the heck is it" problem with many items, even those it shows as being sold!

My question had nothing to do with whether or not a change would be made. My question was how is the few benefiting from the many.
Another question. When it comes to rare and semi rare items which system would make it harder to control the market and force price increases, a central system or a system with over 200 locations?
Prices for those items would increase. Market domination on rare items does take place in other games with a single location. And this system is better simply because it is more engaging and hasn't sacrificed the health of the economy. We have a strong economy and a system in place that is for many players why they play. So even if the actual market stability between the two systems were a was this is the superior system for the way it lets people play.

I was not arguing your point, I was just noting that some think TTC solves the problems, when even it does not.

yes, but you stated the few were benefitting from the many. I want to know how they are doing that.

The few who actively track the real price of things are benefiting from the many that do not have hours to try to find that out.

kargen27

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Decentralized trade has kept prices at a good level for years on console. We never had an inflation problem. If anything, all the huge gold sinks they introduced to combat PCs issues has caused prices to lower on the majority of items.

Please present more evidence for this than just asserting it.

Decentralized trade is the economy on console. It is consistently the case across both consoles that prices are low and inflation is low.

PC, through the use of add-ons, has both an easier time generating coin and centralized trade through add-ons. And it has had, until more recently, large amounts of inflation. These are the things that make it different to console.

In addition, most MMOs feature centralized trade. And they all have the same exact problem with inflation that PC has.

If the older games with centralized trade all have inflation problems that are generally accepted as normal for old games, and the old game that doesn't have it does not face these problems, then chances are strong that similar economic systems are naturally facing similar economic problems due to issues inherent to these systems.

On console, for example, some years ago we used to see rosin regularly sold at around 5k. Prior to the guild store changes they were selling at around 2.5 to 3k. Currently they are around 2k. This is a result of both mat botting, but also due to the coin sinks. Console never made as much coin as PC, as there was no lazy writ add-on.

Logically, we can also see some very obvious reasons as to why this might be the case.

Decentralized trade means that a greater number of competitors can exist in the system, just numerically. And we know that competition naturally keeps prices more competitive. That's a pretty basic concept. It's one of the many reasons monopolies aren't great.

A basic trading principle in online games is to buy low and sell high. Which leads to a few people (relative to the size of the population) buying up items for the purpose of increasing their price. Naturally, the less people that do this, the less impact it has on a market.

Your arguments don't make a solid case, just show some things that have not gone up in price. Crowns are also sold much cheaper (when that happens) on Console, but no game system helps that.

I am still not seeing the reason why letting the few benefit at the expense of the many, as the current system does, adds value. I do see many repeated assertions of that, but no firm evidence.

And your argument that console does not see the inflation you bring up on PC goes against your point. PC has the same trader system, thus it is not the existence of this trader system that limits anything.

And exactly how does the few benefit from the many? They don't. They benefit from the time and effort they put into trading. Just like players who get on the trial leader boards benefit from time and effort not from the many other players that don't make the list. It is much the same thing. The more time you spend on one aspect of the game the better you get.

People across multiple threads have given you good and logically sound reasons this system works and why going to a central system would be devastating. You disregard those answers because they don't fit into your wish to get everything you want at a low low price. Truth is a central system wouldn't give you that either. For rare items you would be paying even more because they would be easier to control.
Sure we could use some quality of life changes especially for consoles. The system though is sound and the economy is healthy. We have an engaging trading system that keeps many players in the game and active. Entire guilds are built around the trading system and there would be no benefit to removing how we trade now.

I was merely responding to the argument, not noting the likelihood of change. I understand that things are not likely to change much, unfortunately, but do continue to claim this is better is not accurate and I do oppose that claim, especially errant claims that it has kept prices down.

Note that the TTC addon can be helpful, but is far from a perfect solution and still leaves the "where the heck is it" problem with many items, even those it shows as being sold!

My question had nothing to do with whether or not a change would be made. My question was how is the few benefiting from the many.
Another question. When it comes to rare and semi rare items which system would make it harder to control the market and force price increases, a central system or a system with over 200 locations?
Prices for those items would increase. Market domination on rare items does take place in other games with a single location. And this system is better simply because it is more engaging and hasn't sacrificed the health of the economy. We have a strong economy and a system in place that is for many players why they play. So even if the actual market stability between the two systems were a was this is the superior system for the way it lets people play.

I was not arguing your point, I was just noting that some think TTC solves the problems, when even it does not.

yes, but you stated the few were benefitting from the many. I want to know how they are doing that.

The few who actively track the real price of things are benefiting from the many that do not have hours to try to find that out.

Just like those who actively run trials end up on the leader boards unlike the players that do not spend the time. The trade system has many tiers and the more time you invest the better you do just like trail runs, PvP, and other fun stuff. They are not benefiting off the many they are benefitting from the time they invest.

FlopsyPrince

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Decentralized trade has kept prices at a good level for years on console. We never had an inflation problem. If anything, all the huge gold sinks they introduced to combat PCs issues has caused prices to lower on the majority of items.

Please present more evidence for this than just asserting it.

Decentralized trade is the economy on console. It is consistently the case across both consoles that prices are low and inflation is low.

PC, through the use of add-ons, has both an easier time generating coin and centralized trade through add-ons. And it has had, until more recently, large amounts of inflation. These are the things that make it different to console.

In addition, most MMOs feature centralized trade. And they all have the same exact problem with inflation that PC has.

If the older games with centralized trade all have inflation problems that are generally accepted as normal for old games, and the old game that doesn't have it does not face these problems, then chances are strong that similar economic systems are naturally facing similar economic problems due to issues inherent to these systems.

On console, for example, some years ago we used to see rosin regularly sold at around 5k. Prior to the guild store changes they were selling at around 2.5 to 3k. Currently they are around 2k. This is a result of both mat botting, but also due to the coin sinks. Console never made as much coin as PC, as there was no lazy writ add-on.

Logically, we can also see some very obvious reasons as to why this might be the case.

Decentralized trade means that a greater number of competitors can exist in the system, just numerically. And we know that competition naturally keeps prices more competitive. That's a pretty basic concept. It's one of the many reasons monopolies aren't great.

A basic trading principle in online games is to buy low and sell high. Which leads to a few people (relative to the size of the population) buying up items for the purpose of increasing their price. Naturally, the less people that do this, the less impact it has on a market.

Your arguments don't make a solid case, just show some things that have not gone up in price. Crowns are also sold much cheaper (when that happens) on Console, but no game system helps that.

I am still not seeing the reason why letting the few benefit at the expense of the many, as the current system does, adds value. I do see many repeated assertions of that, but no firm evidence.

And your argument that console does not see the inflation you bring up on PC goes against your point. PC has the same trader system, thus it is not the existence of this trader system that limits anything.

And exactly how does the few benefit from the many? They don't. They benefit from the time and effort they put into trading. Just like players who get on the trial leader boards benefit from time and effort not from the many other players that don't make the list. It is much the same thing. The more time you spend on one aspect of the game the better you get.

People across multiple threads have given you good and logically sound reasons this system works and why going to a central system would be devastating. You disregard those answers because they don't fit into your wish to get everything you want at a low low price. Truth is a central system wouldn't give you that either. For rare items you would be paying even more because they would be easier to control.
Sure we could use some quality of life changes especially for consoles. The system though is sound and the economy is healthy. We have an engaging trading system that keeps many players in the game and active. Entire guilds are built around the trading system and there would be no benefit to removing how we trade now.

I was merely responding to the argument, not noting the likelihood of change. I understand that things are not likely to change much, unfortunately, but do continue to claim this is better is not accurate and I do oppose that claim, especially errant claims that it has kept prices down.

Note that the TTC addon can be helpful, but is far from a perfect solution and still leaves the "where the heck is it" problem with many items, even those it shows as being sold!

My question had nothing to do with whether or not a change would be made. My question was how is the few benefiting from the many.
Another question. When it comes to rare and semi rare items which system would make it harder to control the market and force price increases, a central system or a system with over 200 locations?
Prices for those items would increase. Market domination on rare items does take place in other games with a single location. And this system is better simply because it is more engaging and hasn't sacrificed the health of the economy. We have a strong economy and a system in place that is for many players why they play. So even if the actual market stability between the two systems were a was this is the superior system for the way it lets people play.

I was not arguing your point, I was just noting that some think TTC solves the problems, when even it does not.

yes, but you stated the few were benefitting from the many. I want to know how they are doing that.

The few who actively track the real price of things are benefiting from the many that do not have hours to try to find that out.

Just like those who actively run trials end up on the leader boards unlike the players that do not spend the time. The trade system has many tiers and the more time you invest the better you do just like trail runs, PvP, and other fun stuff. They are not benefiting off the many they are benefitting from the time they invest.

As I said, you support the few profiting at the expense of the many.

Hidden information is the problem. You can do well at Trials, PvP and even other areas without being in the top group. You cannot do that in the markets. Well, most people can. I will likely never do that well in PvP, though I still do some things there but I know my limits. No other game makes those areas easier. Other games remove much hidden pricing information, quite successfully.

JavaRen

Exactly what information/ resources do the few have that the many do not? Doing well at trials requires knowledge of mechanics, proper addons (on PC at least), time to acquire the gear and supplies, and ideally a good group.

How is that different from trading?

kargen27

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Decentralized trade has kept prices at a good level for years on console. We never had an inflation problem. If anything, all the huge gold sinks they introduced to combat PCs issues has caused prices to lower on the majority of items.

Please present more evidence for this than just asserting it.

Decentralized trade is the economy on console. It is consistently the case across both consoles that prices are low and inflation is low.

PC, through the use of add-ons, has both an easier time generating coin and centralized trade through add-ons. And it has had, until more recently, large amounts of inflation. These are the things that make it different to console.

In addition, most MMOs feature centralized trade. And they all have the same exact problem with inflation that PC has.

If the older games with centralized trade all have inflation problems that are generally accepted as normal for old games, and the old game that doesn't have it does not face these problems, then chances are strong that similar economic systems are naturally facing similar economic problems due to issues inherent to these systems.

On console, for example, some years ago we used to see rosin regularly sold at around 5k. Prior to the guild store changes they were selling at around 2.5 to 3k. Currently they are around 2k. This is a result of both mat botting, but also due to the coin sinks. Console never made as much coin as PC, as there was no lazy writ add-on.

Logically, we can also see some very obvious reasons as to why this might be the case.

Decentralized trade means that a greater number of competitors can exist in the system, just numerically. And we know that competition naturally keeps prices more competitive. That's a pretty basic concept. It's one of the many reasons monopolies aren't great.

A basic trading principle in online games is to buy low and sell high. Which leads to a few people (relative to the size of the population) buying up items for the purpose of increasing their price. Naturally, the less people that do this, the less impact it has on a market.

Your arguments don't make a solid case, just show some things that have not gone up in price. Crowns are also sold much cheaper (when that happens) on Console, but no game system helps that.

I am still not seeing the reason why letting the few benefit at the expense of the many, as the current system does, adds value. I do see many repeated assertions of that, but no firm evidence.

And your argument that console does not see the inflation you bring up on PC goes against your point. PC has the same trader system, thus it is not the existence of this trader system that limits anything.

And exactly how does the few benefit from the many? They don't. They benefit from the time and effort they put into trading. Just like players who get on the trial leader boards benefit from time and effort not from the many other players that don't make the list. It is much the same thing. The more time you spend on one aspect of the game the better you get.

People across multiple threads have given you good and logically sound reasons this system works and why going to a central system would be devastating. You disregard those answers because they don't fit into your wish to get everything you want at a low low price. Truth is a central system wouldn't give you that either. For rare items you would be paying even more because they would be easier to control.
Sure we could use some quality of life changes especially for consoles. The system though is sound and the economy is healthy. We have an engaging trading system that keeps many players in the game and active. Entire guilds are built around the trading system and there would be no benefit to removing how we trade now.

I was merely responding to the argument, not noting the likelihood of change. I understand that things are not likely to change much, unfortunately, but do continue to claim this is better is not accurate and I do oppose that claim, especially errant claims that it has kept prices down.

Note that the TTC addon can be helpful, but is far from a perfect solution and still leaves the "where the heck is it" problem with many items, even those it shows as being sold!

My question had nothing to do with whether or not a change would be made. My question was how is the few benefiting from the many.
Another question. When it comes to rare and semi rare items which system would make it harder to control the market and force price increases, a central system or a system with over 200 locations?
Prices for those items would increase. Market domination on rare items does take place in other games with a single location. And this system is better simply because it is more engaging and hasn't sacrificed the health of the economy. We have a strong economy and a system in place that is for many players why they play. So even if the actual market stability between the two systems were a was this is the superior system for the way it lets people play.

I was not arguing your point, I was just noting that some think TTC solves the problems, when even it does not.

yes, but you stated the few were benefitting from the many. I want to know how they are doing that.

The few who actively track the real price of things are benefiting from the many that do not have hours to try to find that out.

Just like those who actively run trials end up on the leader boards unlike the players that do not spend the time. The trade system has many tiers and the more time you invest the better you do just like trail runs, PvP, and other fun stuff. They are not benefiting off the many they are benefitting from the time they invest.

As I said, you support the few profiting at the expense of the many.

Hidden information is the problem. You can do well at Trials, PvP and even other areas without being in the top group. You cannot do that in the markets. Well, most people can. I will likely never do that well in PvP, though I still do some things there but I know my limits. No other game makes those areas easier. Other games remove much hidden pricing information, quite successfully.

And as I said they are not profiting at the expense of the many. You've offered nothing to support your opinion.

What hidden information? Everybody on PC has the same access to add-ons. Even without add-ons it isn't that hard to figure out prices. If you are selling an item you've not sold before check a few guild locations and see what prices items are being listed. Put some time in. Other games aren't uncovering hidden prices because there are none. They are putting everything in one spot. You have to go interact with that one spot to see the prices. In ESO the more traders you interact with the better perspective you have on pricing. It takes more time but any player can do it so no advantage goes to any one player other than the amount of time they are willing to put in.
With the add-ons prices become a little easier to predict but the prices and item availability with add-ons often isn't up to date and accurate. I rarely visit TTC and when I did I was looking for mid level green recipes so I could collect them all. I'm not in a top trade guild and never purchase items to flip but I'm still sitting on close to 80 million gold. I'm lucky that the activities I enjoy drop items other players are willing to purchase.
I've listed items that sold almost before I could list the next item and that told me I underpriced the item. I've listed items that didn't sell at all. That told me I priced it to high. I learn and adjust. It's all a matter of putting in the time.

FlopsyPrince

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Decentralized trade has kept prices at a good level for years on console. We never had an inflation problem. If anything, all the huge gold sinks they introduced to combat PCs issues has caused prices to lower on the majority of items.

Please present more evidence for this than just asserting it.

Decentralized trade is the economy on console. It is consistently the case across both consoles that prices are low and inflation is low.

PC, through the use of add-ons, has both an easier time generating coin and centralized trade through add-ons. And it has had, until more recently, large amounts of inflation. These are the things that make it different to console.

In addition, most MMOs feature centralized trade. And they all have the same exact problem with inflation that PC has.

If the older games with centralized trade all have inflation problems that are generally accepted as normal for old games, and the old game that doesn't have it does not face these problems, then chances are strong that similar economic systems are naturally facing similar economic problems due to issues inherent to these systems.

On console, for example, some years ago we used to see rosin regularly sold at around 5k. Prior to the guild store changes they were selling at around 2.5 to 3k. Currently they are around 2k. This is a result of both mat botting, but also due to the coin sinks. Console never made as much coin as PC, as there was no lazy writ add-on.

Logically, we can also see some very obvious reasons as to why this might be the case.

Decentralized trade means that a greater number of competitors can exist in the system, just numerically. And we know that competition naturally keeps prices more competitive. That's a pretty basic concept. It's one of the many reasons monopolies aren't great.

A basic trading principle in online games is to buy low and sell high. Which leads to a few people (relative to the size of the population) buying up items for the purpose of increasing their price. Naturally, the less people that do this, the less impact it has on a market.

Your arguments don't make a solid case, just show some things that have not gone up in price. Crowns are also sold much cheaper (when that happens) on Console, but no game system helps that.

I am still not seeing the reason why letting the few benefit at the expense of the many, as the current system does, adds value. I do see many repeated assertions of that, but no firm evidence.

And your argument that console does not see the inflation you bring up on PC goes against your point. PC has the same trader system, thus it is not the existence of this trader system that limits anything.

And exactly how does the few benefit from the many? They don't. They benefit from the time and effort they put into trading. Just like players who get on the trial leader boards benefit from time and effort not from the many other players that don't make the list. It is much the same thing. The more time you spend on one aspect of the game the better you get.

People across multiple threads have given you good and logically sound reasons this system works and why going to a central system would be devastating. You disregard those answers because they don't fit into your wish to get everything you want at a low low price. Truth is a central system wouldn't give you that either. For rare items you would be paying even more because they would be easier to control.
Sure we could use some quality of life changes especially for consoles. The system though is sound and the economy is healthy. We have an engaging trading system that keeps many players in the game and active. Entire guilds are built around the trading system and there would be no benefit to removing how we trade now.

I was merely responding to the argument, not noting the likelihood of change. I understand that things are not likely to change much, unfortunately, but do continue to claim this is better is not accurate and I do oppose that claim, especially errant claims that it has kept prices down.

Note that the TTC addon can be helpful, but is far from a perfect solution and still leaves the "where the heck is it" problem with many items, even those it shows as being sold!

My question had nothing to do with whether or not a change would be made. My question was how is the few benefiting from the many.
Another question. When it comes to rare and semi rare items which system would make it harder to control the market and force price increases, a central system or a system with over 200 locations?
Prices for those items would increase. Market domination on rare items does take place in other games with a single location. And this system is better simply because it is more engaging and hasn't sacrificed the health of the economy. We have a strong economy and a system in place that is for many players why they play. So even if the actual market stability between the two systems were a was this is the superior system for the way it lets people play.

I was not arguing your point, I was just noting that some think TTC solves the problems, when even it does not.

yes, but you stated the few were benefitting from the many. I want to know how they are doing that.

The few who actively track the real price of things are benefiting from the many that do not have hours to try to find that out.

Just like those who actively run trials end up on the leader boards unlike the players that do not spend the time. The trade system has many tiers and the more time you invest the better you do just like trail runs, PvP, and other fun stuff. They are not benefiting off the many they are benefitting from the time they invest.

As I said, you support the few profiting at the expense of the many.

Hidden information is the problem. You can do well at Trials, PvP and even other areas without being in the top group. You cannot do that in the markets. Well, most people can. I will likely never do that well in PvP, though I still do some things there but I know my limits. No other game makes those areas easier. Other games remove much hidden pricing information, quite successfully.

And as I said they are not profiting at the expense of the many. You've offered nothing to support your opinion.

What hidden information? Everybody on PC has the same access to add-ons. Even without add-ons it isn't that hard to figure out prices. If you are selling an item you've not sold before check a few guild locations and see what prices items are being listed. Put some time in. Other games aren't uncovering hidden prices because there are none. They are putting everything in one spot. You have to go interact with that one spot to see the prices. In ESO the more traders you interact with the better perspective you have on pricing. It takes more time but any player can do it so no advantage goes to any one player other than the amount of time they are willing to put in.
With the add-ons prices become a little easier to predict but the prices and item availability with add-ons often isn't up to date and accurate. I rarely visit TTC and when I did I was looking for mid level green recipes so I could collect them all. I'm not in a top trade guild and never purchase items to flip but I'm still sitting on close to 80 million gold. I'm lucky that the activities I enjoy drop items other players are willing to purchase.
I've listed items that sold almost before I could list the next item and that told me I underpriced the item. I've listed items that didn't sell at all. That told me I priced it to high. I learn and adjust. It's all a matter of putting in the time.

You clearly insist upon not listening to what I am saying, so go for what you want to believe.

I know where the system has fallen far short a great many times, on both console and the PC. Many others have noted the same. You are free to ignore all of us if you wish of course.

FlopsyPrince

JavaRen wrote: »

Exactly what information/ resources do the few have that the many do not? Doing well at trials requires knowledge of mechanics, proper addons (on PC at least), time to acquire the gear and supplies, and ideally a good group.

How is that different from trading?

I am not missing much if I don't do Trials, for example. Sure, I may not get some things that only drop in trials, but most of the game is not cut off. Things that are sold by others are cut off from me and/or I underprice what I may sell because I may not understand the true value of something or find it very difficult to find.

You are free to think they are the same, so whatever.