Has something been done about sorc yet or is PvP still unplayable

Major_Mangle · August 22

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

OP sounds like they want to delete the sorc class. I have 39k mag in cyrodiil, and my ward is 10k. Pls don't nerf.

I've never tried pushing max mag. How much mag do you need for a 20k ward? Be interesting to see how it scales. I hope just adding 10k more magicka doesn't double the ward size. That would be silly.

I don't know why the ward was given a heal. I don't need it because I can't drop dark conversion or healing contingency, so it doesn't save me bar space. It was fine before imo. It's not even useful in pve because crit surge. Can't understand the thinking behind the change.

MarioMario wrote: »

The sorcerers are the least impacted because when they shield below 15% health, they have a whole shield pool that benefits from undeath.

That doesn't sound intended. Or maybe it does idk.

Ward was given a heal because Sorc desperately needed an actual burst heal at the time we were asking, and we were asking for years. At the time there was no other way to access a burst heal on Sorc that wasn't interruptible (like every other class has), but then we also got scribing with viable burst heals, which largely would have rectified the issue.

Hardened ward needed a burst heal attached to it as much as healthy offering needed to become a self heal, small hint: it didn´t need one. Magsorc before hardened ward buff had an incredibly high skill ceiling, but when executed properly was still very competitive. Hardened ward does need a rework because in it´s current setting it´s just too strong, and afaik even most magsorc mains tend to agree on that. People tend to have some disagreement on the solutions to it, but since we already have a 70 page forum thread about it I won´t go deeper into it here

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hardened Ward is still grossly op compared to every other self survival tool in the game.

Ye Arcanist wanna have a chat with you about that. If we remove streak from the equation (and even with streak tbh) arcanist has by far the best survivability in the game. Sure it´s a combination of runeward and runeguard (two grossly overtuned skills) but sorc without streak ain´t gonna survive for too long either in most PvP settings.

I know scribing added shield dispels to the game but at the moment it´s only available on trample and elemental explosion which both has cast times which makes them barely usable. If my opponent can spam shields back and forth there should be an option to dispel them more easily as well. Maybe adding shield dispel to knife throw and shield throw could be a future addition. I´m fine with strong skills being a thing if there is good counterplay that doesn´t involve me having 2-3 people with me to kill 1 player (which you need these days to kill the average arcanist or sorc)

Turtle_Bot · August 22

bladenick wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hardened Ward is still grossly op compared to every other self survival tool in the game.

Going to have to partially disagree here. It is OP compared to every other self survival tool in the game except 1.

I've been playing 1 of my NB a lot over the past 2 weeks (it's a hybrid brawler/ganker setup) so this is not coming from someone frustrated with cloak, but from someone using it themselves to extreme effectiveness to survive things that even ward doesn't survive.

Cloak is just broken on a level that even ward can't compare to, (even with my 300+ ping and no defensive set). No ability should be granting that amount of survivability (not to mention the offensive power it also enables) in 1 button press.
It helps I have thumbs and know how to press WASD, but still.

Don't get me wrong, I still agree ward needs toning down, but cloak needs a complete redesign/remake from the ground up. It is so overpowered as a mechanic, that cloak alone (assuming one knows how to press WASD) makes melee NB not only viable, but top tier (in PvP), even during the current ranged meta we are in.
Range gank blade is still stronger, safer and easier, but my point still stands, no other class in the game on a melee build comes close to current range meta except NB and it's all exclusively because of what cloak enables both offensively and defensively on its own, despite the counters (that can be easily played around with even a minute amount of skill/knowledge).

Don’t understanding this, a mag sorc even could survive in 1 vs n with ward and streak, for NB with offense build get no chance to run away under chasing of sorc with detect pot, and in 1 vs n scenario, the NB get zero chance to survival under detect pot

This “incredible survivability” only be true that your opponent don’t get detect pot,

And it totally a mess for NB to get 1 vs 1 scenario with sorc and detect pot

Being unable to survive with cloak is definitely a learn to play issue for vast majority of NBs. Unfortunately this issue is also made so much worse by how cloak functions in PvE, where sitting still spamming cloak is a viable way to defend against 99% of monsters (the exception being IC bosses and city guards) by turning off their aggro causing the monsters to reset to their spawn locations.

This is the wrong way to use cloak defensively in PvP.

Using cloak to survive in PvP is very different to using it in PvE. Using cloak in PvP has never been about just completely hiding from sight, using cloak in PvP is all about giving you what is essentially a non-ramping cost magicka dodge roll where it blocks the enemies line of sight for a split second to mess with their targeting.

To make the most of this, you need to keep mobile (very easily done with the free passive movement speed from concealed weapon and skills like race against time, refreshing path and shade teleport) then you use that moment of reprieve to cast offering (or whatever heal skill you have slotted) while still moving around. Being good enough at doing this, you can easily mess with/evade full groups, even in enclosed spaces such as outpost/keep roofs (something I have done before).

What makes cloak so strong is not using it like ward or a burst heal where you sit still and try to face-tank with it, you use it like pre-nerf ball of lightning or dodge roll where you move around with it and use it as a pseudo dodge roll (where instead of dodging it prevents abilities being cast at you) to give you time to heal up or recover resources to keep rolling/healing and reset the fight.

When a detect potion is used, that is where you use NBs other very strong defensive tools in combination with cloak to create that distance between you and the detect potion user (like you would with any other class where they run to LoS such as trees, rocks etc) then once you have created some distance, you use cloak just as I described above as a way to mess with their targeting like you would use a dodge roll to avoid an incoming ability.

This is why I am a massive advocate of giving cloak a ramping cost. The best and most overpowered way to use it in PvP as a defensive tool (which is something very few NBs even realise is possible with the skill) is to use it like its a spammable ball of lightning but the "dodge" lasts 4 seconds and works for any number of targeted attacks.
Cloak in its current form can be used quite literally how the pre-nerf ball of lightning used to be used and what pre-nerf BoL got completely gutted for being able to do.
The difference between BoL and cloak is that instead of teleporting you and absorbing the targeted attacks, it prevents you from being targeted in the first place (much stronger imo), enabling its caster additional time/freedom to use other defensive tools much easier without the added pressure of being targeted. Cloak also has the advantage of setting up for a burst combo by giving a guaranteed crit (which guarantee enables/procs a lot of things), which is something even pre-nerf BoL could never enable.

bladenick · August 22

Detect pot need removed or reduce range to only 15m or the ramp cost of cloak will ruin the NB.

the big different compare with sorc's streak, there no counter play torwards streak, it the reason why cloak get no ramp cost.

Chilly-McFreeze · August 22

bladenick wrote: »

Detect pot need removed or reduce range to only 15m or the ramp cost of cloak will ruin the NB.

the big different compare with sorc's streak, there no counter play torwards streak, it the reason why cloak get no ramp cost.

Try adding movement speed or use a gap closer. Streak is maybe the best movement tool compared to vamp / arcanists alternatives but is nowhere near "uncounterable" as you make it out to be.

Bashev · August 22

bladenick wrote: »

Detect pot need removed or reduce range to only 15m or the ramp cost of cloak will ruin the NB.

the big different compare with sorc's streak, there no counter play torwards streak, it the reason why cloak get no ramp cost.

How there is no counter to streak? Every charge counters it very well. Not willing to slot a counter is another thing.

On the topic, Hardened wards should be toned down.

It is funny how both OP classes NBs and Sorcs just gives counter argument how the other class has something cool and the rest of the classes just stay in the corner

bladenick · August 22

Bashev wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

Detect pot need removed or reduce range to only 15m or the ramp cost of cloak will ruin the NB.

the big different compare with sorc's streak, there no counter play torwards streak, it the reason why cloak get no ramp cost.

How there is no counter to streak? Every charge counters it very well. Not willing to slot a counter is another thing.

On the topic, Hardened wards should be toned down.

It is funny how both OP classes NBs and Sorcs just gives counter argument how the other class has something cool and the rest of the classes just stay in the corner

when the post taking about sorc's ward itself, the arguremenmt always shift to NB's cloak....

Bushido2513 · August 22

Bashev wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

Detect pot need removed or reduce range to only 15m or the ramp cost of cloak will ruin the NB.

the big different compare with sorc's streak, there no counter play torwards streak, it the reason why cloak get no ramp cost.

How there is no counter to streak? Every charge counters it very well. Not willing to slot a counter is another thing.

On the topic, Hardened wards should be toned down.

It is funny how both OP classes NBs and Sorcs just gives counter argument how the other class has something cool and the rest of the classes just stay in the corner

I am sort of in the camp of hey what about cloak. I think inner light might just need a small buff on range or time active or maybe detect pots get a little more time active. That being said, with ward as it is I really don't feel like sorc has much room to point fingers. Outside of testing I don't use a min maxed max mag build but obviously some do on the regular and I'm sure that's where complaints are coming from.

I was in a big and two sorcs were working together and by the damage I could tell they were min maxed. I survived but others were easily nuked at range. I could see that being frustrating to deal with as a player that wasn't setup to deal with that.

Rhaegar75 · August 22

yep no change.....MagSorcs still dominating in terms of numbers (at least 6 per BG) and gameplay: low HP? ward up......oh my god i',m dying....streak away....can't be bothered with mucky melee combat...how about a bombardment from range...they caught up with you....no problem streak away!!!

jaws343 · August 22

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

OP sounds like they want to delete the sorc class. I have 39k mag in cyrodiil, and my ward is 10k. Pls don't nerf.

I've never tried pushing max mag. How much mag do you need for a 20k ward? Be interesting to see how it scales. I hope just adding 10k more magicka doesn't double the ward size. That would be silly.

I don't know why the ward was given a heal. I don't need it because I can't drop dark conversion or healing contingency, so it doesn't save me bar space. It was fine before imo. It's not even useful in pve because crit surge. Can't understand the thinking behind the change.

MarioMario wrote: »

The sorcerers are the least impacted because when they shield below 15% health, they have a whole shield pool that benefits from undeath.

That doesn't sound intended. Or maybe it does idk.

Ward was given a heal because Sorc desperately needed an actual burst heal at the time we were asking, and we were asking for years. At the time there was no other way to access a burst heal on Sorc that wasn't interruptible (like every other class has), but then we also got scribing with viable burst heals, which largely would have rectified the issue.

This is just my opinion, so feel free to disregard. But I would argue that sorc has never desperately needed a burst heal, and the reason I think that is because it has always had a burst defence. Ward is an on-demand extension of the health pool. It's even treated as such with resistances and undeath. I don't think every class needs what every other class has. Sorc had access to heals from other skill lines, and that has always been fine for me.

The problem is, Ward prior to the heal was never taking your health pool out of execute range. So, you were still taking execute scaled damage at low health, even with ward up. Which meant, after a certain health threshold, ward was essentially useless because it was getting removed as quickly as you could put it up and you still weren't healing out of execute quickly enough.

Burst healing takes you out of execute, which drastically reduces incoming damage from execute scaling skills.

xylena_lazarow · August 22

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Cloak

So where are my pots that prevent Sorcs from using Hardened Ward for 15 seconds?

Bushido2513 · August 22

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Cloak

So where are my pots that prevent Sorcs from using Hardened Ward for 15 seconds?

Remove the several sources of free or easy to get movement speed in the game and I'm all for a pot that does this. Oh also take off the ramp cost.

I have yet to see a sorc that isn't using movement speed that can get away from a person or group that has movement speed, most just give up even if they could catch the sorc but it's the same with NB if they have speed and cloak which can render a detect useless.

Aces-High-82 · August 22

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Good luck killing anyone competent on a 60k mag setup. That extra mag could have went into better damage stats, cp, mundus and Sets.
Edith: better traits also

To be fair good luck killing a plar standing in heals, a 40k health warden or arc, a fast NB, etc. and yes all those classes can still move your health bar while being hard to kill.

At this point to kill someone you either just need to be better than them or have help. If you are equally matched it's going to either stalemate or come down to who got tired and or hit a lag spike first. This wouldn't be the worst thing except it's too easy to turtle and potentially reset the fight.

Thats the thing. When you actually spec into other damage stats you are able to burst those specs If they make a mistake.
To get any relevant use out of ward you already have to invest to 45k mag - thats already ~20k stats you could have invested in better scaling damage.
Will a 60k mag setup make you tanky? Yes.
Will that setup enable you to farm PvE Andys? Yes.
It won't make you competetive vs setups you mentioned besides an endless stalemate bc even when your opponent messes up your damage won't be high enough to take advantage of it.
I am not argueing the ward change did not elevated max mag setups heavily, it did by a tremendous amount in fact for the casual sorc population.
I even build into 70k mag and more to test if mag scaling based damage would outmatch other approaches but outside of a lucky streak of crits it still was meh.
I was told in another thread that 95% of the pvpers on the forum are agreeing that ward is overtuned but ya know whats funny?
At the same time 95% of the pvpers are...how do I say it diplomaticly...not very good at PvP.

Bushido2513 · August 22

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

yep no change.....MagSorcs still dominating in terms of numbers (at least 6 per BG) and gameplay: low HP? ward up......oh my god i',m dying....streak away....can't be bothered with mucky melee combat...how about a bombardment from range...they caught up with you....no problem streak away!!!

Just for perspective, I play on psna and play a fair amount of bgs. I'm happy to say that I actually don't see a disproportionate amount of sorcs. In a bag there might be 3 or 4 counting myself but there's also NB warden and arc and templar. So it may be a platform thing or more of a cyro thing but I don't get the complaints I used to see like when DK, Warden, and arc were just everywhere and doing the same repetitive or annoying gameplay.

I will say sometimes I get sorc duos and that becomes undeniably oppressive at range. Getting hit by multiple curses and multiple overloads is game over quickly without los and dodges.

Navaac223 · August 22

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Good luck killing anyone competent on a 60k mag setup. That extra mag could have went into better damage stats, cp, mundus and Sets.
Edith: better traits also

To be fair good luck killing a plar standing in heals, a 40k health warden or arc, a fast NB, etc. and yes all those classes can still move your health bar while being hard to kill.

At this point to kill someone you either just need to be better than them or have help. If you are equally matched it's going to either stalemate or come down to who got tired and or hit a lag spike first. This wouldn't be the worst thing except it's too easy to turtle and potentially reset the fight.

I even build into 70k mag and more to test if mag scaling based damage would outmatch other approaches but outside of a lucky streak of crits it still was meh.

I tried making an alfiq/wretched/chudan build on the uesp build editor and, with 48k mag and 3900 sd, I get 11k shards (17k when buffed), 13k curse and 11k overload LA. This is more burst than most classes can get when going all in on damage, especially when you take range into account. (I've never tried a magsorc build so I probably got some details wrong about the build)
Edit: don't forget the 7k streak..

Aces-High-82 · August 22

And now please apply Battle Spirit to those values

Jsmalls · August 22

Navaac223 wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Good luck killing anyone competent on a 60k mag setup. That extra mag could have went into better damage stats, cp, mundus and Sets.
Edith: better traits also

To be fair good luck killing a plar standing in heals, a 40k health warden or arc, a fast NB, etc. and yes all those classes can still move your health bar while being hard to kill.

At this point to kill someone you either just need to be better than them or have help. If you are equally matched it's going to either stalemate or come down to who got tired and or hit a lag spike first. This wouldn't be the worst thing except it's too easy to turtle and potentially reset the fight.

I even build into 70k mag and more to test if mag scaling based damage would outmatch other approaches but outside of a lucky streak of crits it still was meh.

I tried making an alfiq/wretched/chudan build on the uesp build editor and, with 48k mag and 3900 sd, I get 11k shards (17k when buffed), 13k curse and 11k overload LA. This is more burst than most classes can get when going all in on damage, especially when you take range into account. (I've never tried a magsorc build so I probably got some details wrong about the build)
Edit: don't forget the 7k streak..

So this is likely usable for Open World when your are catching people off guard but these values are laughable (no offense you just threw something together and it's not your main) in a competitive space with any sort of cross healing going.

For reference my tooltip for Curse is 18k and I still have issues putting great players down (even when I execute things perfectly). Overload is also a clear indicator for the opponent to go defensive (same as corrosive or Warden ultimate). You can get creative with turning it off and on but this does take up a GCD.

At the end of the day Sorc's damage is very much telegraphed. Which makes it more difficult to put down "great" players. The only time I die to a burst Sorc like you showed is when I'm outnumbered or we get into a sustained 1v1 fight and I run out of resources (I'm not setup for permanent sustain on my open world setup because ill kite to sustain so I can have higher peak damage in my setup).

LittlePinkDot · August 22

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hardened Ward is still grossly op compared to every other self survival tool in the game.

Going to have to partially disagree here. It is OP compared to every other self survival tool in the game except 1.

I've been playing 1 of my NB a lot over the past 2 weeks (it's a hybrid brawler/ganker setup) so this is not coming from someone frustrated with cloak, but from someone using it themselves to extreme effectiveness to survive things that even ward doesn't survive.

Cloak is just broken on a level that even ward can't compare to, (even with my 300+ ping and no defensive set). No ability should be granting that amount of survivability (not to mention the offensive power it also enables) in 1 button press.
It helps I have thumbs and know how to press WASD, but still.

Don't get me wrong, I still agree ward needs toning down, but cloak needs a complete redesign/remake from the ground up. It is so overpowered as a mechanic, that cloak alone (assuming one knows how to press WASD) makes melee NB not only viable, but top tier (in PvP), even during the current ranged meta we are in.
Range gank blade is still stronger, safer and easier, but my point still stands, no other class in the game on a melee build comes close to current range meta except NB and it's all exclusively because of what cloak enables both offensively and defensively on its own, despite the counters (that can be easily played around with even a minute amount of skill/knowledge).

Don’t understanding this, a mag sorc even could survive in 1 vs n with ward and streak, for NB with offense build get no chance to run away under chasing of sorc with detect pot, and in 1 vs n scenario, the NB get zero chance to survival under detect pot

This “incredible survivability” only be true that your opponent don’t get detect pot,

And it totally a mess for NB to get 1 vs 1 scenario with sorc and detect pot

Being unable to survive with cloak is definitely a learn to play issue for vast majority of NBs. Unfortunately this issue is also made so much worse by how cloak functions in PvE, where sitting still spamming cloak is a viable way to defend against 99% of monsters (the exception being IC bosses and city guards) by turning off their aggro causing the monsters to reset to their spawn locations.

This is the wrong way to use cloak defensively in PvP.

Using cloak to survive in PvP is very different to using it in PvE. Using cloak in PvP has never been about just completely hiding from sight, using cloak in PvP is all about giving you what is essentially a non-ramping cost magicka dodge roll where it blocks the enemies line of sight for a split second to mess with their targeting.
To make the most of this, you need to keep mobile (very easily done with the free passive movement speed from concealed weapon and skills like race against time, refreshing path and shade teleport) then you use that moment of reprieve to cast offering (or whatever heal skill you have slotted) while still moving around. Being good enough at doing this, you can easily mess with/evade full groups, even in enclosed spaces such as outpost/keep roofs (something I have done before).

What makes cloak so strong is not using it like ward or a burst heal where you sit still and try to face-tank with it, you use it like pre-nerf ball of lightning or dodge roll where you move around with it and use it as a pseudo dodge roll (where instead of dodging it prevents abilities being cast at you) to give you time to heal up or recover resources to keep rolling/healing and reset the fight.

When a detect potion is used, that is where you use NBs other very strong defensive tools in combination with cloak to create that distance between you and the detect potion user (like you would with any other class where they run to LoS such as trees, rocks etc) then once you have created some distance, you use cloak just as I described above as a way to mess with their targeting like you would use a dodge roll to avoid an incoming ability.

This is why I am a massive advocate of giving cloak a ramping cost. The best and most overpowered way to use it in PvP as a defensive tool (which is something very few NBs even realise is possible with the skill) is to use it like its a spammable ball of lightning but the "dodge" lasts 4 seconds and works for any number of targeted attacks.
Cloak in its current form can be used quite literally how the pre-nerf ball of lightning used to be used and what pre-nerf BoL got completely gutted for being able to do.
The difference between BoL and cloak is that instead of teleporting you and absorbing the targeted attacks, it prevents you from being targeted in the first place (much stronger imo), enabling its caster additional time/freedom to use other defensive tools much easier without the added pressure of being targeted. Cloak also has the advantage of setting up for a burst combo by giving a guaranteed crit (which guarantee enables/procs a lot of things), which is something even pre-nerf BoL could never enable.

Cloak is already too expensive for Stamina NB. Only Magicka NB is viable anymore as it is.

And now they moved surprise attack from the shadow skill line, so Stam NB has to be able to spam cloak just to keep major resolve up for a measly 10 seconds.

MEBengalsFan2001 · August 22

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hardened Ward is still grossly op compared to every other self survival tool in the game.

Yes it is. Forget even buffing up with major resolve when you can get a damage shield that will take that first or second hit for you.

xylena_lazarow · August 22

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Ye Arcanist wanna have a chat with you about that.

Had a chat with Arc the 3 months I mained the class earlier this year, before the MDW nerf, before the tentacle nerf, before the vamp 3 nerf, before the Hardened Ward buff, so when Arc was at its strongest in the meta in recent memory. Its offensive kit is jank carried by procs and stun shenanigans, its defensive kit relies a lot on spamming empty casts of Impervious at low hp clinging to life. It was mid then and it's weaker now, nowhere near the level of Sorc, though still a great support.

H_E · August 22

ok i got it Sorc V Sorc (and target practice) is still not worth playing

LittlePinkDot · August 22

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Ye Arcanist wanna have a chat with you about that.

Had a chat with Arc the 3 months I mained the class earlier this year, before the MDW nerf, before the tentacle nerf, before the vamp 3 nerf, before the Hardened Ward buff, so when Arc was at its strongest in the meta in recent memory. Its offensive kit is jank carried by procs and stun shenanigans, its defensive kit relies a lot on spamming empty casts of Impervious at low hp clinging to life. It was mid then and it's weaker now, nowhere near the level of Sorc, though still a great support.

Try the new soul burst, burst heal with sages remedy HoT and whatever affix script you want, I like major courage.

Johaylons · August 22

Nb player here. I dont have access to DLCs so I cant make anthelmir + tarnished. I'm currently runing a bow build(I love bows in every game its availible) with sheer venom and ring of the wild hunt for escape/mobility. I play battlegrounds. Whenever I meet a good sorc, the fight goes like this:

1)I open up with lethal arrow + LA + poison injection. This takes about 25% of his shields.

2)He rushes towards me doing his dmg stuff. While he is doing that, I'm moving diagonally back while still hitting him.

3)At this point I'm about 50% hp and his shields are finally down, he reapplies them and I go backbar to heal + cloak so I can run away and reangege.

4)His damage over time effects take me out of the cloak in 1 second. Or something does. Maybe invit pot + hit idk. I reapply cloak to get away but he blinks into me stunning me. Meanwhile I'm still taking dmg cuz of dots and his abilities.

5)I try to self heal to survive, I die.

Probably an oversimplification, but basically this. I dont know how I can counter this. No matter where I run with spring or not, cloak or not, they can always catch/stun me with one or multiple blink/stuns that they do. I got "wyrd tree" set just so I can get some dispells against sorcs that reapply every 7.5 secs for 30 seconds. I'm trying out a damage over time build against his shields. Idk.

Edit: I know its probably a l2p issue, and thats why I'm here. Teach me please

Edit 2: I dont think I'm doing bad, but maybe I am because all my damage is pad damage and useless?

sunshineflame · August 23

this guy hasn't played anytime recently...complaining about sorcs when everyone has been playing magden lmfao

TechMaybeHic · August 23

sunshineflame wrote: »

this guy hasn't played anytime recently...complaining about sorcs when everyone has been playing magden lmfao

How longs it been since YOU played? Sorc and NB each account for nearly 25% of the population in Cyrodiil

LittlePinkDot · August 23

Johaylons wrote: »

Nb player here. I dont have access to DLCs so I cant make anthelmir + tarnished. I'm currently runing a bow build(I love bows in every game its availible) with sheer venom and ring of the wild hunt for escape/mobility. I play battlegrounds. Whenever I meet a good sorc, the fight goes like this:

1)I open up with lethal arrow + LA + poison injection. This takes about 25% of his shields.

2)He rushes towards me doing his dmg stuff. While he is doing that, I'm moving diagonally back while still hitting him.

3)At this point I'm about 50% hp and his shields are finally down, he reapplies them and I go backbar to heal + cloak so I can run away and reangege.

4)His damage over time effects take me out of the cloak in 1 second. Or something does. Maybe invit pot + hit idk. I reapply cloak to get away but he blinks into me stunning me. Meanwhile I'm still taking dmg cuz of dots and his abilities.

5)I try to self heal to survive, I die.

Probably an oversimplification, but basically this. I dont know how I can counter this. No matter where I run with spring or not, cloak or not, they can always catch/stun me with one or multiple blink/stuns that they do. I got "wyrd tree" set just so I can get some dispells against sorcs that reapply every 7.5 secs for 30 seconds. I'm trying out a damage over time build against his shields. Idk.

Edit: I know its probably a l2p issue, and thats why I'm here. Teach me please

Edit 2: I dont think I'm doing bad, but maybe I am because all my damage is pad damage and useless?

Are you using merciless resolve? NB nuke skill is merciless resolve. If you shot off that after lethal arrow then go into poison injection, you might be able to kill them. Also using NB fear skill to prevent them from re-applying the shield would help.

bladenick · August 23

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Johaylons wrote: »

Nb player here. I dont have access to DLCs so I cant make anthelmir + tarnished. I'm currently runing a bow build(I love bows in every game its availible) with sheer venom and ring of the wild hunt for escape/mobility. I play battlegrounds. Whenever I meet a good sorc, the fight goes like this:

1)I open up with lethal arrow + LA + poison injection. This takes about 25% of his shields.

2)He rushes towards me doing his dmg stuff. While he is doing that, I'm moving diagonally back while still hitting him.

3)At this point I'm about 50% hp and his shields are finally down, he reapplies them and I go backbar to heal + cloak so I can run away and reangege.

4)His damage over time effects take me out of the cloak in 1 second. Or something does. Maybe invit pot + hit idk. I reapply cloak to get away but he blinks into me stunning me. Meanwhile I'm still taking dmg cuz of dots and his abilities.

5)I try to self heal to survive, I die.

Probably an oversimplification, but basically this. I dont know how I can counter this. No matter where I run with spring or not, cloak or not, they can always catch/stun me with one or multiple blink/stuns that they do. I got "wyrd tree" set just so I can get some dispells against sorcs that reapply every 7.5 secs for 30 seconds. I'm trying out a damage over time build against his shields. Idk.

Edit: I know its probably a l2p issue, and thats why I'm here. Teach me please

Edit 2: I dont think I'm doing bad, but maybe I am because all my damage is pad damage and useless?

Are you using merciless resolve? NB nuke skill is merciless resolve. If you shot off that after lethal arrow then go into poison injection, you might be able to kill them. Also using NB fear skill to prevent them from re-applying the shield would help.

There nothing to do with spectral bow, you get no chance if NB can not kill sorc by burst damage, in most case, you can’t, once the sorc survives your burst damage and re shields, the toughest thing for NB is how to survival under sorc’s streak and detect pot, the NB need investigating on defend set or there no chance run away

bladenick · August 23

Johaylons wrote: »

Nb player here. I dont have access to DLCs so I cant make anthelmir + tarnished. I'm currently runing a bow build(I love bows in every game its availible) with sheer venom and ring of the wild hunt for escape/mobility. I play battlegrounds. Whenever I meet a good sorc, the fight goes like this:

1)I open up with lethal arrow + LA + poison injection. This takes about 25% of his shields.

2)He rushes towards me doing his dmg stuff. While he is doing that, I'm moving diagonally back while still hitting him.

3)At this point I'm about 50% hp and his shields are finally down, he reapplies them and I go backbar to heal + cloak so I can run away and reangege.

4)His damage over time effects take me out of the cloak in 1 second. Or something does. Maybe invit pot + hit idk. I reapply cloak to get away but he blinks into me stunning me. Meanwhile I'm still taking dmg cuz of dots and his abilities.

5)I try to self heal to survive, I die.

Probably an oversimplification, but basically this. I dont know how I can counter this. No matter where I run with spring or not, cloak or not, they can always catch/stun me with one or multiple blink/stuns that they do. I got "wyrd tree" set just so I can get some dispells against sorcs that reapply every 7.5 secs for 30 seconds. I'm trying out a damage over time build against his shields. Idk.

Edit: I know its probably a l2p issue, and thats why I'm here. Teach me please

Edit 2: I dont think I'm doing bad, but maybe I am because all my damage is pad damage and useless?

Yes, this is typically encounter on BG NB vs Sorc in 1v1, it even worst on melee NB , I running a melee Build, so totally share the pain, but I investigated 1 set on defend, so I can run away under detect pot, it relied on terrain such as wall and pillar, but just avoid 1 vs 1 Sorc in BG is golden principal
With the undeath nerfed, sorc is less impacted due to harden ward, in contrast the NB will dead much faster in this 1 vs 1 situation

Johaylons · August 23

[/quote]
Are you using merciless resolve? NB nuke skill is merciless resolve. If you shot off that after lethal arrow then go into poison injection, you might be able to kill them. Also using NB fear skill to prevent them from re-applying the shield would help.[/quote]

Yep, I'm using merciless focus. Though usually it isnt ready when I meet a sorc. But I'll try that. I'll also you mean mass hysteria? I might try it, but since I'm stamina build beacuse of the bow, I might not be able to use it as much. Thanks for the suggestions!

[/quote]
Yes, this is typically encounter on BG NB vs Sorc in 1v1, it even worst on melee NB , I running a melee Build, so totally share the pain, but I investigated 1 set on defend, so I can run away under detect pot, it relied on terrain such as wall and pillar, but just avoid 1 vs 1 Sorc in BG is golden principal
With the undeath nerfed, sorc is less impacted due to harden ward, in contrast the NB will dead much faster in this 1 vs 1 situation[/quote]

I'll try, thanks!

On another note, does it getter with CP? Not that I like having 2 different builds for cp and non-cp, but im curious.

Edit: I should mention that I suck at blocking in pvp, except a couple of really obvious stuff like mages guild ulti meteor and arcanist stun that has green hexagon around you. The patch notes said something is blockable now but I dont even know how to identify it to block it.

Edit 2: Okay thats on me, googling blocking in eso pvp helped me in 2 minutes...

LittlePinkDot · August 23

bladenick wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Johaylons wrote: »

Nb player here. I dont have access to DLCs so I cant make anthelmir + tarnished. I'm currently runing a bow build(I love bows in every game its availible) with sheer venom and ring of the wild hunt for escape/mobility. I play battlegrounds. Whenever I meet a good sorc, the fight goes like this:

1)I open up with lethal arrow + LA + poison injection. This takes about 25% of his shields.

2)He rushes towards me doing his dmg stuff. While he is doing that, I'm moving diagonally back while still hitting him.

3)At this point I'm about 50% hp and his shields are finally down, he reapplies them and I go backbar to heal + cloak so I can run away and reangege.

4)His damage over time effects take me out of the cloak in 1 second. Or something does. Maybe invit pot + hit idk. I reapply cloak to get away but he blinks into me stunning me. Meanwhile I'm still taking dmg cuz of dots and his abilities.

5)I try to self heal to survive, I die.

Probably an oversimplification, but basically this. I dont know how I can counter this. No matter where I run with spring or not, cloak or not, they can always catch/stun me with one or multiple blink/stuns that they do. I got "wyrd tree" set just so I can get some dispells against sorcs that reapply every 7.5 secs for 30 seconds. I'm trying out a damage over time build against his shields. Idk.

Edit: I know its probably a l2p issue, and thats why I'm here. Teach me please

Edit 2: I dont think I'm doing bad, but maybe I am because all my damage is pad damage and useless?

Are you using merciless resolve? NB nuke skill is merciless resolve. If you shot off that after lethal arrow then go into poison injection, you might be able to kill them. Also using NB fear skill to prevent them from re-applying the shield would help.

There nothing to do with spectral bow, you get no chance if NB can not kill sorc by burst damage, in most case, you can’t, once the sorc survives your burst damage and re shields, the toughest thing for NB is how to survival under sorc’s streak and detect pot, the NB need investigating on defend set or there no chance run away

Magicka NB is better because you can continually use cloak. The only NB I use now is my Magicka NB.
And you need to cast a shadow skill to keep major resolve buff up because that's how the passive works.
If you could cloak as much as you want to you could easily gain 5 stacks for merciless resolve.
But if you're Magicka and want to be ranged, you might as well use a lightning destruction staff.

It's funny, but I use Sheer Venom and swamp raider set on my bow Arcanist with Lethal arrow and poison injection. Except instead of cloak I have a massive magic shield called impervious runeward.

Johaylons · August 23

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Johaylons wrote: »

Nb player here. I dont have access to DLCs so I cant make anthelmir + tarnished. I'm currently runing a bow build(I love bows in every game its availible) with sheer venom and ring of the wild hunt for escape/mobility. I play battlegrounds. Whenever I meet a good sorc, the fight goes like this:

1)I open up with lethal arrow + LA + poison injection. This takes about 25% of his shields.

2)He rushes towards me doing his dmg stuff. While he is doing that, I'm moving diagonally back while still hitting him.

3)At this point I'm about 50% hp and his shields are finally down, he reapplies them and I go backbar to heal + cloak so I can run away and reangege.

4)His damage over time effects take me out of the cloak in 1 second. Or something does. Maybe invit pot + hit idk. I reapply cloak to get away but he blinks into me stunning me. Meanwhile I'm still taking dmg cuz of dots and his abilities.

5)I try to self heal to survive, I die.

Probably an oversimplification, but basically this. I dont know how I can counter this. No matter where I run with spring or not, cloak or not, they can always catch/stun me with one or multiple blink/stuns that they do. I got "wyrd tree" set just so I can get some dispells against sorcs that reapply every 7.5 secs for 30 seconds. I'm trying out a damage over time build against his shields. Idk.

Edit: I know its probably a l2p issue, and thats why I'm here. Teach me please

Edit 2: I dont think I'm doing bad, but maybe I am because all my damage is pad damage and useless?

Are you using merciless resolve? NB nuke skill is merciless resolve. If you shot off that after lethal arrow then go into poison injection, you might be able to kill them. Also using NB fear skill to prevent them from re-applying the shield would help.

There nothing to do with spectral bow, you get no chance if NB can not kill sorc by burst damage, in most case, you can’t, once the sorc survives your burst damage and re shields, the toughest thing for NB is how to survival under sorc’s streak and detect pot, the NB need investigating on defend set or there no chance run away

Magicka NB is better because you can continually use cloak. The only NB I use now is my Magicka NB.
And you need to cast a shadow skill to keep major resolve buff up because that's how the passive works.
If you could cloak as much as you want to you could easily gain 5 stacks for merciless resolve.
But if you're Magicka and want to be ranged, you might as well use a lightning destruction staff.

It's funny, but I use Sheer Venom and swamp raider set on my bow Arcanist with Lethal arrow and poison injection. Except instead of cloak I have a massive magic shield called impervious runeward.

I actually went for sheer venom and swamp raider, it was very fun!

Yeah I hear magicla NBs are actually better. But not for me. I dont want a staff, I like bows and only bows, in every game thats possible, good or bad

I'll make it work.