Necromancer Skill: Stalking Blastbones VS Grave Lord's Sacrifice.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · March 22

Stalking Blastbones

One of the worst things I have discovered about the new skill (Apart from everything already mentioned) is the Skeleton can be unintentionally avoided once summoned, I tend to move around a lot in combat so the majority of the time I have tried the skill the Skeleton is running around wasting additional time trying to get to me so I am forced to stand still as I wait for it.

Necrotech_Master · March 22

i havent voted as i havent actually used GLS, but i recognize all of the potential problems with it

while the buff sounds OK on paper, all of the nonsense going along with it would 100% make it unusable and in general more clunky

while at the same time the rest of the toolkit is horribly underpowered as a result of most of the dmg being loaded on blastbones to begin with

on the one mag necro i had, i basically just immediately changed the morph to the blighted blastbones because even though that character is kind of spec to focus on status effects and dots, i cant see or make use of the GLS because the buff is too short, and im running oaken on that toon, so i only have 1 bar to begin with

IncultaWolf · March 22

Stalking Blastbones

We hear your concerns about necromancer, and have decided to buff nightblade and sorcerer again! We have also renamed necromancer to clown master, to better fit the players who paid for it 🤡💀

Araneae6537 · March 22

Stalking Blastbones

It is disheartening that with the concerns regarding how account-wide achievements were implemented, the change to Templar jabs, the change to Nightblade grim focus, and now obliteration of Necro blast bones, it feels like the concerns and feedback are all ignored. Granted, in the first case, some of the problems were eventually addressed, but the silence at the time, broken only a “Q&A” that ignored or mischaracterized players’ real concerns, just made everything feel worse, and was a reason I stopped playing and subbing for a time.

The aesthetic changes to major Templar and Nightblade abilities was upsetting to me too, so I don’t even try to DPS on either class and deleted two of my Nightblades. Now Necro, this isn’t just a bizarre change thematically but gameplay wise as well; it seems to achieve the opposite of the stated goals, and the class was already hurting after being overnerfed. The class is barely clinging to marginal roles in PvE and is completely useless in PvP.

FelisCatus · March 22

Stalking Blastbones

Aldoss wrote: »

I just want to call attention to the poll numbers that this is actually one of the better polls I've seen in recent patches concerning a class change.

Nearly 80 unique players casting their vote about a change for the unanimously agreed upon worst performing class in both PvP and PvE. And of those, over 90% are in agreement that this change is abysmal!

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert the silence here needs to be broken. You nerfed the worst performing class in the game by deleting their most useful skill. Nothing was given in return.

Please communicate with your players. What is being done to solve this?

Doesn't matter how much you complain sadly the devs in all their infinite wisdom know better than us mere mortals.

StarOfElyon · March 22

Stalking Blastbones

Shagreth wrote: »

I'm surprised this made it live, hell, I'm more surprised they even came up with such a bad idea in the first place.

The whole thing is awe inspiring.

mariliaribas · March 23

Stalking Blastbones

C_Inside wrote: »

Maybe they're hoping that by some ungodly miracle console players will like the new skill. Personally I hope that if some console players actually wind up liking Suckrifice more then they will actually come along and explain to us their point of view. Because the PC players that like it are as silent as the devs.

Obligatory @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno tag.

I'm very curious to see what console players think of this skill. I hope they'll add their voice to the crowd. As for the players that voted for GLS, I'm convinced that at least half of them are just trolls (there's at least one there that only plays as nightblade) and the other half are Stam Necro players that liked the change to blighted blastbones and didn't pay attention to the question when they voted.

C_Inside · March 23

Stalking Blastbones

mariliaribas wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

Maybe they're hoping that by some ungodly miracle console players will like the new skill. Personally I hope that if some console players actually wind up liking Suckrifice more then they will actually come along and explain to us their point of view. Because the PC players that like it are as silent as the devs.

Obligatory @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno tag.

I'm very curious to see what console players think of this skill. I hope they'll add their voice to the crowd. As for the players that voted for GLS, I'm convinced that at least half of them are just trolls (there's at least one there that only plays as nightblade) and the other half are Stam Necro players that liked the change to blighted blastbones and didn't pay attention to the question when they voted.

The thing is, thanks to hybridization it doesn't matter if your skill costs magica or stamina. It now scales with the same max stat. So even if you were running a stamcro you'd still be using Stalking. Stalking was already a cheap skill that you only had to cast every 3 seconds and the Reusable parts passive made it 50% cheaper every 2nd cast. So even the argument of "I want the stamina version because I never had enough magica for Stalking" doesn't make sense.

No, until someone from the Suckrifice crowd manages to convince us that it's better then I'll have to agree that everyone who voted for it are trolls.

Deimus · March 23

Stalking Blastbones

Another week has gone by and still no communication. I guess the results of this thread isn't worth a response

francesinhalover · March 23

Aelorin wrote: »

I stopped playing my necromancer and give in to the FOMO Arcanist.

Give it 1-2 years and arcanist will be the worse class in the game. Wont even have beam anymore.

Id invest on dragon knight and nightblade.

Celldweller · March 23

Stalking Blastbones

I just don't understand how we got here. I want a skill that does damage not some stupid buff!

Kalle_Demos · March 24

Stalking Blastbones

Alaztor91 wrote: »

One would expect after seeing how well received Arcanist was and after they started adding QoL changes to other classes like ''while slotted on either bar'' that ZOS would apply that knowledge here.

Instead, they do a complete 180 and give you a skill that:
-Has an ''in-combat'' requirement to cast, despite being a self-buff skill.
-Has the buff effect delayed because you have to wait for the Skeleton to jump to your player character.
-Has a chance of the buff being delayed even more due to multiple things that can disrupt the Skeleton like LoS or CC.
-Forces you into using a specific spammable or lose the only way to generate Corpses from range.
-Hurts your sustain because of the massively reduced benefit it receives from Reusable Parts.

How can a skill with so many flaws not only leave the PTS, but also replace the main skill that Necro has been using since 2019. Seriously how can ZOS release a patch that on one side has the reworked Siphoning Strikes and on the other side has Grave Lord's Sacrifice? What am I missing here?

Yes, Zos should be lauded for the Arcanist and their subsequent handling of balance adjustments. Most recent adjustments, aside from a few glaring examples, were imo steps in the right direction. Hence why the gutting of Blastbones for the mess that is GLS stands out soooo much. Other posters have suggested ways that stated goals for the Necromancer could've been met but instead Zos doubles down on the exact opposite of their own words. It just doesn't make any sense.

Urvoth · March 24

Stalking Blastbones

Aldoss wrote: »

132 votes and still above 90%. As noted, console release hasn't even happened yet.

No response from the devs regarding the state of this class and the death blow they dealt to us, but someone goes and fibbs to ZOS about Thrass gaining stacks from target dummies in Cyro and that gets an immediate reply.

@ZOS_Kevin are the devs aware of this poll? Will ZOS put the investment into necro that it needs to be brought out of the dumpster? Will we see changes next pts cycle or should we expect to have to wait until Q3 to see anything happen to necro?

Communicate. Please.

More like wait another 5 years

Celldweller wrote: »

I just don't understand how we got here. I want a skill that does damage not some stupid buff!

Right? Makes total sense to gut the only good damage skill from a class that is severely lacking damage skills.

moo_2021 · March 24

Stalking Blastbones

Celldweller wrote: »

I just don't understand how we got here. I want a skill that does damage not some stupid buff!

Or it can do both. A buff plus AoE attack would be fine for melee players.

IncultaWolf · March 24

Stalking Blastbones

francesinhalover wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

I stopped playing my necromancer and give in to the FOMO Arcanist.

Give it 1-2 years and arcanist will be the worse class in the game. Wont even have beam anymore.

Id invest on dragon knight and nightblade.

That's honestly what I've been telling people complaining that all they see in pve are arcanist dps. Give it a year or two and arcanist will be nerfed down to necromancer tier and only be used for a niche support role. It's happened with all the paid classes.

Araneae6537 · March 25

Stalking Blastbones

IncultaWolf wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

I stopped playing my necromancer and give in to the FOMO Arcanist.

Give it 1-2 years and arcanist will be the worse class in the game. Wont even have beam anymore.

Id invest on dragon knight and nightblade.

That's honestly what I've been telling people complaining that all they see in pve are arcanist dps. Give it a year or two and arcanist will be nerfed down to necromancer tier and only be used for a niche support role. It's happened with all the paid classes.

That would be a shame. Thankfully Warden isn’t that bad and there have been some improvements regarding ice damage. We should want all classes to be viable and fun to play, ideally with different strengths and playstyles.

C_Inside · March 25

Stalking Blastbones

Araneae6537 wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

I stopped playing my necromancer and give in to the FOMO Arcanist.

Give it 1-2 years and arcanist will be the worse class in the game. Wont even have beam anymore.

Id invest on dragon knight and nightblade.

That's honestly what I've been telling people complaining that all they see in pve are arcanist dps. Give it a year or two and arcanist will be nerfed down to necromancer tier and only be used for a niche support role. It's happened with all the paid classes.

That would be a shame. Thankfully Warden isn’t that bad and there have been some improvements regarding ice damage. We should want all classes to be viable and fun to play, ideally with different strengths and playstyles.

Personally I'd prefer a system where the more complex and difficult a class is to play, the more effective it is. Sadly ZOS are currently riding the accessibility bandwagon so in ESO it's the complete opposite. What's the point in learning a necro or nightblade rotation when "press beam button to win" arcanist out-damages both? To quote PatricianTV, this is the "apathy threshold" and is in my opinion one of the main reasons why the game feels so stale.

Also, @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno we're still waiting for you folks to demonstrate that "improved communication" you've been touting. A simple acknowledgement of the results of this poll should be as simple as doing an arcanist rotation.

Kalle_Demos · March 25

Stalking Blastbones

mariliaribas wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

Maybe they're hoping that by some ungodly miracle console players will like the new skill. Personally I hope that if some console players actually wind up liking Suckrifice more then they will actually come along and explain to us their point of view. Because the PC players that like it are as silent as the devs.

Obligatory @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno tag.

I'm very curious to see what console players think of this skill. I hope they'll add their voice to the crowd. As for the players that voted for GLS, I'm convinced that at least half of them are just trolls (there's at least one there that only plays as nightblade) and the other half are Stam Necro players that liked the change to blighted blastbones and didn't pay attention to the question when they voted.

I suspect the reaction will be similar and that GLS will have even more problems on slower systems. Outside of trolls, I don't really see any legitimate reason to choose GLS, even with fixes, and would be very interested to hear what it's proponents have to say.

CameraBeardThePirate · March 25

Stalking Blastbones

Reminder that corpses are still bugged, and were not fixed in the latest incremental.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655150/half-of-necros-kit-has-been-non-functional-in-certain-environments-for-months#latest

Please direct frustration here. I for one would love to actually be able to use my corpse consumers in PvP zones.

mariliaribas · March 25

Stalking Blastbones

My + subscription is going to end in five days and I think I won't renew it this time. It's the first time since I started playing that I cancel my eso+, but I don't really feel like coming back to the game until we have an actual answer.

Hundmann · March 25

Stalking Blastbones

After that patch, I had to completely switch to the stamina version of everything. It's okay with the bow, but I liked the staffs and the mage more. But what can you do, life is pain

Araneae6537 · March 25

Stalking Blastbones

Hundmann wrote: »

After that patch, I had to completely switch to the stamina version of everything. It's okay with the bow, but I liked the staffs and the mage more. But what can you do, life is pain

Anyone who says differently is selling something.

Couldn’t you play mag still with the stamina bones? I do enjoy hybrid builds on several of my characters, especially DK and Arcanist, still all attributes to one stat if it’s for PvE DPS. I haven’t made such a build satisfactory with Necro yet, but I would think it should be possible.

Urvoth · March 25

Stalking Blastbones

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Hundmann wrote: »

After that patch, I had to completely switch to the stamina version of everything. It's okay with the bow, but I liked the staffs and the mage more. But what can you do, life is pain

Anyone who says differently is selling something.

Couldn’t you play mag still with the stamina bones? I do enjoy hybrid builds on several of my characters, especially DK and Arcanist, still all attributes to one stat if it’s for PvE DPS. I haven’t made such a build satisfactory with Necro yet, but I would think it should be possible.

It's not really a magcro if your primary damage skill is stamina

C_Inside · March 26

Stalking Blastbones

Urvoth wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Hundmann wrote: »

After that patch, I had to completely switch to the stamina version of everything. It's okay with the bow, but I liked the staffs and the mage more. But what can you do, life is pain

Anyone who says differently is selling something.

Couldn’t you play mag still with the stamina bones? I do enjoy hybrid builds on several of my characters, especially DK and Arcanist, still all attributes to one stat if it’s for PvE DPS. I haven’t made such a build satisfactory with Necro yet, but I would think it should be possible.

It's not really a magcro if your primary damage skill is stamina

Terms like stamcro and magcro in regards to your skills were made obsolete all the way back in U34. There is literally no reason to limit yourself to only 1 attribute cost type as no matter what the skill costs it always scales with the higher of your max stam or mag. In fact you're actively hurting yourself if you limit your skills to only mag or stam as you'll be hurting for sustain and will need to run sustain food.

The optimal way to build nowadays is to have a decent split between mag and stam skills. That way you can run single or double stat food to maximize your damage. For example on my necro I run Venom Skull, Bllighted BB, Quick Cloak, and Barbed Trap as stam skills. Unstable Wall of Fire, Boneyard, and Mystic Orb are Mag. Syphon is free. I don't have any sustain issues this way and can easily run parse food in any content. Before Suckbones was introduced I obviously ran Stalking BB and my sustain was even better.

Alaztor91 · March 26

Stalking Blastbones

9.3.6 Notes:
Necromancer
Living Death
Reanimate
Animate Blastbones: Fixed an issue where the Blastbones summoned from this Ultimate were not properly considered class abilities for many bonuses, such as the new Sacrificial Bones functionality.

We know that ZOS reads at least some of the feedback, but looking at how they seemingly ignore all the other issues that Grave Lord's Sacrifice has, one has to wonder:

-Was this skill clunky design on purpose?
-Was it because the Skeleton inherited Blastbones AI/Pathing and they couldn't be bothered to tweak/fix it? I mean the skeleton that GLS summons is literally called ''Stalking Blastbones''
-If ZOS for some reason think that GLS is in a good spot, can we at least get some changes for Blighted Blastbones? Switch to Flame Damage? Old Stalking BB modifier? Dynamic Cost? maybe making them non-targetable(would help GLS too)

It really sucks that ZOS can't even take 10 minutes to address some of these issues and instead they decide to leave players in a limbo wondering if changes are going to come in 3 months or in 3 years.

DanteTheDeviant · March 26

Stalking Blastbones

I've changed my mind since trying the ability out over the last few days, and wish I could change my vote:
1) The new ability is much better to use in PvE than stalking blastbones was, and despite what people are saying, it does make damage rotations a lot simpler.
2) Blighted blastbones is still the right choice for PvP, and the disease DoT actually makes it do slightly more damage than the average stalking blastbones cast.

My only suggestions:
1) Make GLS cast-able outside of combat so it does not feel clunky to use.
2) Increase the GLS damage buff from 15% to 20%.
3) Buff blighted blastbones by 10% to take into consideration the additional burning effect procs stalking blastbones would get or the off chance SB had to go a long distance (getting 50% instead of 10% damage boost).

Marto · March 26

Grave Lord's Sacrifice

Ok so

I think if we look at Grave Lord Sacrifice as a way to turn Flame Skull into a longer range, lower damage, more reliable Blastbones, the skill is actually a good addition to Necro's arsenal.

However, I think that 2.5s delay is absolutely awful for gamefeel. And should either be removed, or reduced to 1s or 2s, to make it meld better with your rotation.
Imagine for example a delay of 2s; you cast Grave Lord Sacrifice, you cast 2 different AoE or DoT skills, and then you cast your Flame Skull. I think something like that would be more acceptable.

The skill also needs to be castable out of combat, for the gamefeel of such a rotation to be acceptable.

As for Blighted Blastbones, I think the stamina cost is mild enough that "magicka builds" shouldn't really worry about using it. But it could use a bit of a damage buff. Not just because of its performance, also as a way to differentiate it from Grave Lord Sacrifice. You want more damage but not instantly?
You use Blastbones. You want less damage but more reliable and stacking on top of Flame Skull? You use Grave Lord Sacrifice.

Alaztor91 · March 26

Stalking Blastbones

Marto wrote: »

Ok so

I think if we look at Grave Lord Sacrifice as a way to turn Flame Skull into a longer range, lower damage, more reliable Blastbones, the skill is actually a good addition to Necro's arsenal.

However, I think that 2.5s delay is absolutely awful for gamefeel. And should either be removed, or reduced to 1s or 2s, to make it meld better with your rotation.
Imagine for example a delay of 2s; you cast Grave Lord Sacrifice, you cast 2 different AoE or DoT skills, and then you cast your Flame Skull. I think something like that would be more acceptable.

The skill also needs to be castable out of combat, for the gamefeel of such a rotation to be acceptable.

I'm 99% sure that the 2.5s delay on GLS is due to it using the same ''skeleton summoning'' animation that old BB/current Blighted BB uses. They could just make it work like a ''normal'' buff, make it generate a Corpse on top of you when cast and remove the whole ''summon a skeleton that jumps to you'' part. Would lose a bit of flavor but the whole ''skeleton jumping to you'' makes no sense anyway.

The forced in-combat requirement should also be removed, there are plenty of skills that grant you Major Sorcery/Brutality that can be casted out of combat and GLS is basically just another % damage buff.

I also agree that boosted Flame Skull 3rd cast is technically more reliable than Blastbones due to it not being tied to a summoned NPC, but I would instead tweak GLS to not force you into a specific spammable and just add a proc to it, something like:
''While active, striking an enemy creates a Patch of Skeletal Claws from the ground that deals X Damage in an Area and creates a Corpse near the enemy. Can only happen every Y seconds.''

The ''Patch of Skeletal Claws'' could use the same animation that the one that Grave Grasp uses. Would be a skill similar to Tome-Bearer's Inspiration if you think about it.

OsUfi · March 27

Stalking Blastbones

I gave it a crack last night, it feels clunky and isn't as satisfying as Blastbones. I like the feel of necros, but one of the main complaints I've read about necros is that they feel bad to play. Without the satisfying crunch of BB and the janky pre-effect skeletal bounce, it deffo feels worse.

Fata1moose · March 27

Stalking Blastbones

GLS is an absolute travesty of a decision. Blast bones was my favorite skill in the game but not anymore. Hopefully ZOS does a rare instance of admitting their mistake and reverts it.