Necromancer Skill: Stalking Blastbones VS Grave Lord's Sacrifice.

amig186

Stalking Blastbones

The new ability is just awful. It's a buff that you need to wait for, since the skeleton takes a second or two to jump on you, and you can't even prebuff because you have to be in combat to cast it. I've never seen a more unwieldy ability in ESO.

Aelorin

I stopped playing my necromancer and give in to the FOMO Arcanist.

Aldoss

Stalking Blastbones

I just want to call attention to the poll numbers that this is actually one of the better polls I've seen in recent patches concerning a class change.

Nearly 80 unique players casting their vote about a change for the unanimously agreed upon worst performing class in both PvP and PvE. And of those, over 90% are in agreement that this change is abysmal!



@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert the silence here needs to be broken. You nerfed the worst performing class in the game by deleting their most useful skill. Nothing was given in return.

Please communicate with your players. What is being done to solve this?

mariliaribas

Stalking Blastbones

I can't believe there are 5 votes for GLS, in my mind they are the devs in disguise, that's my truth and I'm sticking with it. /s

Jokes aside, we can't let this topic die. I feel like the absolutely horrible state that Necro is in is not being talked enough, and we need to keep the discussion going. I think GLS is far from being the only problem with necromancer, but it's the more urgent, this whole change needs to be reverted and the devs need to truly play the class as dps to understand the changes they have to make, because this skill show exactly how out of touch they are with the class.

C_Inside

Stalking Blastbones

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno We're still eagerly awaiting any statements or basic acknowledgement from the dev team about the absolute state of necro. Do we seriously need to spam the entirety of the first page of this forum with threads about necro for you folks to notice us?

Aldoss

Stalking Blastbones

This poll is now approaching 90 unique players (how are there even that many necros?! Where are you all when I need to complete the kill necro quest in cyro?!), I want to reiterate some of the absurdity of this buff that no other buff in the game suffers from:

- this buff has a delay
- this buff can be stunned
- this buff can be immobilized
- this buff can die before application
- this buff can be LOS'd by the caster, causing the buff to fail
- this buff doesn't even do what the tooltip claims it does (no buff to animate blastbones ultimate)


Almost 95% agreement in this thread. This skill is the absolute worst designed skill that ever made it to live. ZOS wasted its money on this skill's design and everyone knows it. The only reason why this isn't blowing up even more is because no one played necro to begin with. Imagine if DKs had their Flames of Oblivion changed to do everything I just listed?

Oh right... They'd just use all their other skills because DK is a functioning class with the most robust class toolkit in the game. And yet, you know they'd be blowing up this forum about how ridiculous this is.

Necro had no other skills. ZOS deleted the one unifying skill every necro build used. The one skill on a death recap that let you know you were fighting a necro.

Talk. To. Us!

Kalle_Demos

Stalking Blastbones

Neiska wrote: »

I am a Necro Tank main, but I was hoping to have a mag off build for solo and overland. But I am genuinely confused as to what they expect, mag necros to just pop the buff every 17 seconds and spam skulls? Try to sneak in some iffy dots when you can? I mean, seriously here, what kind of playstyle are they expecting? I am at a loss here, and I genuinely question if they even see our concerns. They respond to other issues, but not to this. And there has been plenty of voiced concerns even when this was still in testing. I have only dabbled with mag necro, but to me it feels like it went from a C+ to a D.

I mean, lets say someone rolled a new necro, zero gear, zero CP, fresh start. What are they supposed to do, load skull and buff and just pew pew pew their way to 50?

I'm still at a loss as to what GLS was actually meant to accomplish because it certainly doesn't reflect stated goals.

adjusting this ability to help Necromancers who don’t want to constantly manage a short duration ability, as it put a significant demand on creating complex and dynamic rotations in real combat.

Managing yet another buff...Only available after initiating combat...With a delay...That can be blocked and line of sighted...And to generate distance corpses you are forced to spam Skulls thrice...Like, what was the reason? And Blighted just puts Magcrows in a worse spot than they already were.

Rasande_Robin

Stalking Blastbones

I have no words...

flizomica

Stalking Blastbones

I'm really trying to use the new morph and there is so much about it that feels bad.

• Not being able to pre-buff feels so clunky.
• The delay on the buff itself means you don't get buffed immediately in combat and need to recast it while the timer is still ticking down.
• The sacrificial skeleton has the same goofy targeting and I keep unintentionally dodging my own skeleton!
• Being forced to use it alongside the flame skull spammable is anti play-how-you-want.

In practice it feels objectively more complicated and restrictive than the skill-skill-blastbones cadence I am used to. I can't remotely see how this makes the class gameplay easier/more accessible/whatever. They should have just made one morph a DoT that generates corpses and put the big buff to class damage/DoTs on a different skill as the class needed a big buff anyway. Some sort of necromantic plague AoE or sticky DoT that fountains off corpses every 3 seconds would be both thematically appropriate and simplify rotation/bar swapping needs.

C_Inside

Stalking Blastbones

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno We're still eagerly awaiting any statements or basic acknowledgement from the dev team about the absolute state of necro. Considering the results of the poll it's high time someone broke the silence.

Deimus

Stalking Blastbones

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

I have no words...

You aren't the only one, a four week PTS and it's now the weekend after the patch went live. Necro players voicing concerns that this change does the opposite of what their stated goal was only to be met with deafening silence. Apparently the combat devs have no words either. Communication sure is tough.

Alaztor91

Stalking Blastbones

A problem with a single House in the game gets a response acknowledging the issue in a day, but introducing an overwhelmingly disliked rework of a core and iconic class skill gets ignored pretty much the entire PTS and keeps being ignored now that it was pushed to live.

You know you can move away from the Silence AoE right? It's not like you are Blastbones.

StarOfElyon

Stalking Blastbones

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Which do you prefer?

The best idea I've seen was one of the morphs of Blastbones should have been changed into a hit+damage over time. A dot would have been a nice morph option.

I'm making an updated version of my Necro ideas thread from 2023 (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633137/suggestions-for-necromancer-changes). One thing that ZOS has been doing lately is making skills require less micromanagement and loading them with multiple functions:

Cephaliarch's Flail:
Infuse your arm with abyssal magic to form tentacles that lash out at your foes dealing 1939 Physical Damage, healing yourself for 969, and generating Crux. Enemies are immobilized for 3 seconds and marked with Abyssal Ink for 20 seconds. Deals up to 100% more damage to enemies with less than 50% Health. You deal 5% increased damage to enemies drenched in Abyssal Ink.

Tome-Bearer's Inspiration:
Etch a series of runes onto your weapon that pulse with power once every 5 seconds. Each pulse enhances your class abilities, and striking an enemy with one deals an additional 1161 Magic Damage and generates Crux if you have none. While slotted on either ability bar, gain Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%.

The Necro needs this same treatment.

Blighted Blastbones: cost determined by the highest resource.
(I have mourned the loss of Stalking Blastbones and I have accepted that fact that I'm just going to have to change my Necro)

Death Scythe:
As I have seen suggested on the forums, both morphs of the Necro scythe should get execute scaling. I agree that this would be a great and very needed addition.
- Hungry Scythe: should also apply life steal to all enemies hit.


Skeletal Arcanist/Archer: grants major sorcery/brutality when slotted on either bar. Increase the damage that their attacks do.

Shocking Siphon: while slotted on either bar grants major prophecy/savagery and increases damage done by 3%. The AOE remains on the ground even if the tether breaks early. *Increase the radius size.
- Mystic Siphon: the increased Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery persists even if the tether breaks early.
- Detonating Syphon: the damage AOE now sticks to you.

Flame Skull:
- Riccochet Skull/Venom Skull: applies burning/poisoned status effects. (Increase travel speed)

Spirit Mender: when active, applies minor cowardice to attackers.

Bone Totem: summons an effigy of bones up to 28 meters away. After 1 second, the totem begins fearing nearby enemies every 2 seconds, causing them to cower in place for 4 seconds. (Changed to allow both morphs to be targeted)
- Warding Totem: (Formerly Remote Totem) grants minor protection when standing in the area of effect.
- Agony Totem: afflicts enemies in the area of effect with minor vulnerability.

Restoring Tether: the effects persist on the player even if the tether breaks early.

Render Flesh:
- Resistant Flesh: (remains unchanged)
- Blood Sacrifice: consumes a corpse to grant you Major Courage (or Major Berserk) for 10 seconds.

Expunge: reduces the cost of all your abilities by 3% while slotted on either bar.

Bitter Harvest: when slotted on either bar, reduces your damage taken by 3%.


ULTIMATES:
Frozen Colossus: Unleash a decayed Flesh Colossus to pulverize enemies in the area. The Colossus smashes the ground three times over 3 seconds. Dealing damage applies Major Vulnerability to any enemy hit for 12 seconds.
- Glacial Colossus: does frost damage and stuns enemies on the second hit instead of the third.
- Pestilent Colossus: smashes the ground only once and does disease damage. Afflicts enemies with a pestilence that does damage over time.

Animate Blastbones: instead of resurrecting allies, this ultimate summons up to three blastbones to attack the nearest opponent. Summoned Blastbones are immune to being crowd controlled (other than by another ultimate). Reduce the cost of this ultimate to 200, down from 320, to make it more usable.

(3-15-2024: a video discussing these ideas)

https://youtu.be/s03c5jlZhaQ?si=wZUIjM1YkDQSMqnC

Zodiarkslayer

Grave Lord's Sacrifice

It should be castable out of combat, though. Make it a nice 20s backbar buff. 👍👍

Aldoss

Stalking Blastbones

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

It should be castable out of combat, though. Make it a nice 20s backbar buff. 👍👍

Not calling you out - you're just the first people to be vocal about your support for GLS.

Can you share what you didn't like about Stalking BB that makes this a buff for you?

Alaztor91

Stalking Blastbones

Here is yet another suggestion for improving Grave Lord's Sacrifice:

Cast Time: Instant, Target: Self, Duration: 20s, Cost: X Magicka (dynamic cost would be ideal)

''Imbue yourself with necrotic energy, increasing your damage done with class abilities and damage over time effects by 10% and generating a Blastbones stack every 3 seconds, up to 1 stack. Dealing direct damage consumes a stack to summon a flaming skeleton from the ground that runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing Y Flame Damage to all enemies nearby and generating a Corpse''.

Reusable Parts I / II: When your Blastbones, Skeletal Mage, or Spirit Mender dies, the cost of your next Necromancer skill is reduced by 25 / 50%.

-No ''in-combat'' requirement.
-Buff is now received immediately upon casting the skill.
-No longer forced to use Flame Skull as a spammable.
-Reusable Parts change allows for the skill to keep providing resource sustain.

Numbers like duration, cost or damage can be tweaked but I think anyone that plays Necro can understand the general idea. Skill would basically be a backbar buff while at the same time providing passive Blastbones generation.

mariliaribas

Stalking Blastbones

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Here is yet another suggestion for improving Grave Lord's Sacrifice:

Cast Time: Instant, Target: Self, Duration: 20s, Cost: X Magicka (dynamic cost would be ideal)

''Imbue yourself with necrotic energy, increasing your damage done with class abilities and damage over time effects by 10% and generating a Blastbones stack every 3 seconds, up to 1 stack. Dealing direct damage consumes a stack to summon a flaming skeleton from the ground that runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing Y Flame Damage to all enemies nearby and generating a Corpse''.

Reusable Parts I / II: When your Blastbones, Skeletal Mage, or Spirit Mender dies, the cost of your next Necromancer skill is reduced by 25 / 50%.

-No ''in-combat'' requirement.
-Buff is now received immediately upon casting the skill.
-No longer forced to use Flame Skull as a spammable.
-Reusable Parts change allows for the skill to keep providing resource sustain.

Numbers like duration, cost or damage can be tweaked but I think anyone that plays Necro can understand the general idea. Skill would basically be a backbar buff while at the same time providing passive Blastbones generation.

I think someone actually suggested something a bit similar on the PTS forum. It's a great idea, which of course leads me to believe the devs will not implement it, since they simply refuse to do anything to actually improve this clunky, unusable class. It's the i-don't-even-know-how-many day in a row that I enter the forums looking for even a small bit of communication about the state of this class and receive nothing.

Aldoss

Stalking Blastbones

This poll has just crossed into triple digits and has maintained a 90+% agreement that GLS is awful in comparison to what we had.

It leads me to wonder: who was this change for? Who was complaining about blastbones?

The only complaint I've ever seen was referring to its pathing and AI. BB gets desynced sometimes. BB can be outrun. BB can jump and do no dmg. BB can go on strike and refuse to do anything and instead just stands there (this hasn't happened in several patches).

It's imperative to reiterate, BB being the pet that it is, and allowing it to be stunned, immobilized, killed or affected by silence was all either direct or indirect justification for the skill being one of the most powerful and hard hitting skills in the game. Those were always mechanics, not bugs.

No one complained about the 3sec cadence. It was the class defining skill of being a necro.

This needs a hotfix. It can't wait until next PTS. Take this skill back and go back to the drawing board. @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Nothing was more depressing than watching Akinos and Decimus on twitch desperately try to make this skill work, only to conclude the obvious - the skill is the worst designed skill to ever make it to live.

You can fix this. You can win back the hearts of your players and communication is the way to do it. Talk to us. How are you going to fix this?

mariliaribas

Stalking Blastbones

Aldoss wrote: »

Talk to us. How are you going to fix this?

At the moment I'm so disappointed with how poorly they managed things and the lack of communication that even a small note saying they are at the very least reading the feedback would be nice.

C_Inside

Stalking Blastbones

We mustn't let this thread die folks. Not until @ZOS_Kevin or @ZOS_GinaBruno have addressed our concerns.

The poll is the best visual proof we have of what the community thinks of SuckBones and should always be on page 1 until our concerns are addressed.

IncultaWolf

Stalking Blastbones

Yeah, a few streamers tried out grave lord's sacrifice, then immediately swapped to the stamina morph.

I finally took my necromancer back into pvp for a couple hours for the first time this patch, since most of my time has been in Infinite archive farming the style pages, and my crit stalking blastbones use to hit around 13k average, with my highest being 17k last patch because of the 50% chase modifier and flame damage. On the same build blighted only crits for around 7-9k, it's very sad to lose so much burst damage..

Well guess I will go back to mainly only playing my sorcerer or nightblade in pvp this patch

StarOfElyon

Stalking Blastbones

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Yeah, a few streamers tried out grave lord's sacrifice, then immediately swapped to the stamina morph.

I finally took my necromancer back into pvp for a couple hours for the first time this patch, since most of my time has been in Infinite archive farming the style pages, and my crit stalking blastbones use to hit around 13k average, with my highest being 17k last patch because of the 50% chase modifier and flame damage. On the same build blighted only crits for around 7-9k, it's very sad to lose so much burst damage..

Well guess I will go back to mainly only playing my sorcerer or nightblade in pvp this patch

I'm on Xbox so the nerf hasn't hit me yet. This sounds terrible. A slight buff to the defile won't be worth losing the extra damage from stalking Blastbones (+ fire damage to vampires in PVP).

Kalle_Demos

Stalking Blastbones

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Which do you prefer?

The best idea I've seen was one of the morphs of Blastbones should have been changed into a hit+damage over time. A dot would have been a nice morph option.

I'm making an updated version of my Necro ideas thread from 2023 (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633137/suggestions-for-necromancer-changes). One thing that ZOS has been doing lately is making skills require less micromanagement and loading them with multiple functions:

Cephaliarch's Flail:
Infuse your arm with abyssal magic to form tentacles that lash out at your foes dealing 1939 Physical Damage, healing yourself for 969, and generating Crux. Enemies are immobilized for 3 seconds and marked with Abyssal Ink for 20 seconds. Deals up to 100% more damage to enemies with less than 50% Health. You deal 5% increased damage to enemies drenched in Abyssal Ink.

Tome-Bearer's Inspiration:
Etch a series of runes onto your weapon that pulse with power once every 5 seconds. Each pulse enhances your class abilities, and striking an enemy with one deals an additional 1161 Magic Damage and generates Crux if you have none. While slotted on either ability bar, gain Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%.

The Necro needs this same treatment.

Blighted Blastbones: cost determined by the highest resource.
(I have mourned the loss of Stalking Blastbones and I have accepted that fact that I'm just going to have to change my Necro)

Death Scythe:
As I have seen suggested on the forums, both morphs of the Necro scythe should get execute scaling. I agree that this would be a great and very needed addition.
- Hungry Scythe: should also apply life steal to all enemies hit.


Skeletal Arcanist/Archer: grants major sorcery/brutality when slotted on either bar. Increase the damage that their attacks do.

Shocking Siphon: while slotted on either bar grants major prophecy/savagery and increases damage done by 3%. The AOE remains on the ground even if the tether breaks early. *Increase the radius size.
- Mystic Siphon: the increased Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery persists even if the tether breaks early.
- Detonating Syphon: the damage AOE now sticks to you.

Flame Skull:
- Riccochet Skull/Venom Skull: applies burning/poisoned status effects. (Increase travel speed)

Spirit Mender: when active, applies minor cowardice to attackers.

Bone Totem: summons an effigy of bones up to 28 meters away. After 1 second, the totem begins fearing nearby enemies every 2 seconds, causing them to cower in place for 4 seconds. (Changed to allow both morphs to be targeted)
- Warding Totem: (Formerly Remote Totem) grants minor protection when standing in the area of effect.
- Agony Totem: afflicts enemies in the area of effect with minor vulnerability.

Restoring Tether: the effects persist on the player even if the tether breaks early.

Render Flesh:
- Resistant Flesh: (remains unchanged)
- Blood Sacrifice: consumes a corpse to grant you Major Courage (or Major Berserk) for 10 seconds.

Expunge: reduces the cost of all your abilities by 3% while slotted on either bar.

Bitter Harvest: when slotted on either bar, reduces your damage taken by 3%.


ULTIMATES:
Frozen Colossus: Unleash a decayed Flesh Colossus to pulverize enemies in the area. The Colossus smashes the ground three times over 3 seconds. Dealing damage applies Major Vulnerability to any enemy hit for 12 seconds.
- Glacial Colossus: does frost damage and stuns enemies on the second hit instead of the third.
- Pestilent Colossus: smashes the ground only once and does disease damage. Afflicts enemies with a pestilence that does damage over time.

Animate Blastbones: instead of resurrecting allies, this ultimate summons up to three blastbones to attack the nearest opponent. Summoned Blastbones are immune to being crowd controlled (other than by another ultimate). Reduce the cost of this ultimate to 200, down from 320, to make it more usable.

(3-15-2024: a video discussing these ideas)

https://youtu.be/s03c5jlZhaQ?si=wZUIjM1YkDQSMqnC

I think a DOT would've helped Necro. One idea I saw hear that I really liked, I can't recall the thread atm, was where GLS was retooled as an instant buff that also spawned multiple weaker BlastBones. It would be nice for the Necromancer to feel like a Necromancer.

Aldoss

Stalking Blastbones

StarOfElyon wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Yeah, a few streamers tried out grave lord's sacrifice, then immediately swapped to the stamina morph.

I finally took my necromancer back into pvp for a couple hours for the first time this patch, since most of my time has been in Infinite archive farming the style pages, and my crit stalking blastbones use to hit around 13k average, with my highest being 17k last patch because of the 50% chase modifier and flame damage. On the same build blighted only crits for around 7-9k, it's very sad to lose so much burst damage..

Well guess I will go back to mainly only playing my sorcerer or nightblade in pvp this patch

I'm on Xbox so the nerf hasn't hit me yet. This sounds terrible. A slight buff to the defile won't be worth losing the extra damage from stalking Blastbones (+ fire damage to vampires in PVP).

It's terrible and I'm sorry. The night before patch I was smacking people for 12-13k crit stalking bb's in BGs on a Nobility/Shield Breaker/SSC build. That same build with Blighted MAXED OUT at 8.5k highest hit after 10 BGs on patch drop.

It's the biggest nerf I've ever seen. Absolutely unreal. It's why we absolutely need to get this reverted or get some form of communication from ZOS as to what is being done at HQ to correct this by next patch.

We were the worst performing class in both PvE and PvP and we took a hit unlike anything I've ever seen.

dmnqwk

I think necro players need to ensure they publicly let people know to avoid ZOS, and Elder Scrolls, games - the only way Necromancers will be fixed is if the game company loses money over it.

I mean, blastbones is less damage than a rapid strikes and ZOS think it's a good idea!!!

Since it's better to build rather than tear down, I felt it necessary to offer a solution to this mess.
I think the key would be blastbones dealing X damage regardless, and then having an effect after.

A) Empowering Blastbones - Deal X damage and buff the Necro's dots by X% (all dots, not just class ones, and a decent amount like 20-40%) for 6 seconds on a 5 sec cd. (on a 5 sec to encourage more dots filling on the gaps).
Pestilant Blastbones - Deal X damage and cause the target to take 5% more damage from direct attacks (stacks up to 3 times)

OsUfi

Stalking Blastbones

Swapped to Stamina morph a month ago as one thing I like about my necro, is the blastbones 3 second rotation. Has a unique feel to it.

The only place I notice a difference is in Cyro, and boy do I miss it there. I don't think Blighted even manages half the damage of Stalking.

mariliaribas

Stalking Blastbones

Not trying to call someone out or anything, but I would truly like to know what do the people that voted for Grave Lord Sacrifice like about the skill. I tried to use it in different scenarios, but ultimately the fact that it has to be casted in combat and that you can line of sight your own buff prevented me from using it seriously. But looking at the skill, even if those two major problems were solved, it would still be a clunky skill that would make an even more convoluted rotation of having to cast skull three times before even being able to cast boneyard and do actual damage with dots. It's such a weird way to begin a fight, you have to:

- summon skeleton
- use skull once to get into combat
- use grave lord Sacrifice for the buff
- use skull three times to generate a corpse
- finally use boneyard to apply the dot
- skull three times
- detonating syphon



That's like ten seconds into the fight before you can actually start to do damage. By the time you get to the end of applying all your dots, the first one is halfway through already. Nevermind bad damage in boss fights, necros are now completely useless in trash pulls and you can wipe the floor with them in pvp.

How did you guys that voted for GLS made such a skill work?

C_Inside

Stalking Blastbones

100 votes for Stalking vs only 10 for SuckBones and @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno still haven't addressed any of our pain points. Where's that "improved communication" y'all have been touting since U35?

On a side note I'd also like to know what the people who voted for SuckBones see in it. I've tried to make it work several times and could not. Yet SuckBones is slowly (oh so slowly) starting to catch up in the poll. Please enlighten me.

OtarTheMad

Stalking Blastbones

They keep moving in the wrong direction with Necromancer and this change and the silence on whether they have any more changes for Necro planned sealed whether or not I am buying the chapter. It’s a big fat no to that question.

Thanks ZOS for helping me make my decision to not only not buy your chapter but really start to look into other games for fun.

Kalle_Demos

Stalking Blastbones

mariliaribas wrote: »

Not trying to call someone out or anything, but I would truly like to know what do the people that voted for Grave Lord Sacrifice like about the skill. I tried to use it in different scenarios, but ultimately the fact that it has to be casted in combat and that you can line of sight your own buff prevented me from using it seriously. But looking at the skill, even if those two major problems were solved, it would still be a clunky skill that would make an even more convoluted rotation of having to cast skull three times before even being able to cast boneyard and do actual damage with dots. It's such a weird way to begin a fight, you have to:

- summon skeleton
- use skull once to get into combat
- use grave lord Sacrifice for the buff
- use skull three times to generate a corpse
- finally use boneyard to apply the dot
- skull three times
- detonating syphon



That's like ten seconds into the fight before you can actually start to do damage. By the time you get to the end of applying all your dots, the first one is halfway through already. Nevermind bad damage in boss fights, necros are now completely useless in trash pulls and you can wipe the floor with them in pvp.

How did you guys that voted for GLS made such a skill work?

I too find it odd that no one that voted for GLS has opted to defend it or join the conversation. And as you point out, the skill has issues. A nerf among nerfs, Necro is left only with much worse options.