Necromancer Skill: Stalking Blastbones VS Grave Lord's Sacrifice.

Kalle_Demos

Which do you prefer?

IncultaWolf

Stalking Blastbones

From what I've read and seen, everyone who does serious pve parses that hit 100k+ have just swapped to the stamina morph of blastbones because it's actually easier of a rotation than grave lord's sacrifice, so the intended goal of reworking this ability failed.

It feels very clunky how you can't cast it out of combat anymore, and the 2.5 second cast time for grave lord's sacrifice feels really bad before you can even start doing damage or spamming skulls to cast a range tether or buffed graveyard.

I've been playing this game off and on since beta and this is honestly the worst change I've ever seen on any class.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1bcmtyo/rip_my_fave_necro_skill/

Tinkerhorn

Stalking Blastbones

I've expressed my points plenty in the PTS and it went no where alongside tonnes of other voices. Ultimately I think it was an awful change and it'll have done more to push people who play Necro as a main away from the game.

CameraBeardThePirate

Stalking Blastbones

You can literally line of sight your own buff in PvP. That's unacceptable, and quite frankly, astounding that ZOS didn't think of this. After all, in their own words, part of the reason they changed it was the weird behavior of Blastbones.

So they changed it to a buff, but... didn't change the behavior? So it's just as unreliable, except now you're losing damage with all your abilities instead of just blastbones?

Marronsuisse

Stalking Blastbones

I still don't understand why they replaced the magicka morph of Blastbones with Grave Lord's Sacrifice.

GLS would not be difficult for a magcro to sustain if it was a stamina skill, I think? You only cast it every 20 seconds. Meanwhile magcros who still want BB now have to use a stamina skill every few seconds.

Anyway I tried GSL but it felt very clunky and I parsed a lot lower. I liked the original concept and had hoped it might work well with my AoE focused build, but... guess I'll have to take the L and use Blighted.

I'd be interested in making a different build that makes better use of GLS if it didn't rely on Flaming Skull.

CameraBeardThePirate

Stalking Blastbones

Marronsuisse wrote: »

I still don't understand why they replaced the magicka morph of Blastbones with Grave Lord's Sacrifice.

GLS would not be difficult for a magcro to sustain if it was a stamina skill, I think? You only cast it every 20 seconds. Meanwhile magcros who still want BB now have to use a stamina skill every few seconds.

Anyway I tried GSL but it felt very clunky and I parsed a lot lower. I liked the original concept and had hoped it might work well with my AoE focused build, but... guess I'll have to take the L and use Blighted.

I'd be interested in making a different build that makes better use of GLS if it didn't rely on Flaming Skull.

UHM Ackshually, you have to cast it every 17 seconds. If you cast it every 20 seconds, you'll have 2-3 seconds of downtime each cast because you don't get the buff until blastbones leaps you.

It's dumb, I know.

Marronsuisse

Stalking Blastbones

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

UHM Ackshually, you have to cast it every 17 seconds. If you cast it every 20 seconds, you'll have 2-3 seconds of downtime each cast because you don't get the buff until blastbones leaps you.

It's dumb, I know.

Hahaha oh no... that's true. Not to mention there's no avoiding that delay when you first get into combat.

Aldoss

Stalking Blastbones

I took GLS off my bar within the first 20 minutes.

It's actually the worst skill in the game. The design is beyond absurd.

Is there any other buff in the game that can be stunned and delays your ability to get a buff?

Is there any other skill in the game that can be immobilized and delays your ability to get the buff?

Is there any other skill in the game where you can cast it and then LOS it, and ultimately fail to get the buff you wasted resources on?

The devs thought this was EASIER.

15% is barely noticeable. I tried seeing if spamming skulls to get burst would now be a thing, but nope. I was smacking people for 10-13k crit stalking bb's all last patch and combo'ing it with 3 stacked venom skulls that could hit 7-9k.

This patch, with the buff, venom skull hits essentially the same, but my sustain is worse and I have to play a "chase the buff" mini game that's so bad it makes chasing down Essence Thief seem fun.

I tried seeing if dots were somehow noticeably harder hitting. Nope. Dots are still a trash PvP design, especially when you take away the pressure of major and minor defile.

This skill is a complete failure and you knew it all along because the 10 necro mains that exist in this game told you so every day since pts week 1, day 1.

My best blighted bb out of 10 bgs last night was 8.8k on the same build I used last patch that got me 10-13k. Aoe disease procs don't make up for this loss.

Thanks for the nerf. This is a paid class. Do better. This skill theft is the worst version of ZOSsery I've ever seen so far, and on a PAID class.

Wallet has been closed since U35 and remains closed.

C_Inside

Stalking Blastbones

Gave the new SuckBones a chance. Even specifically tried building for it, but no. It's trash tier.

You're not only forced into using Flame Skull but you're specifically forced into using the Venom Skull morph. Ricochet simply doesn't generate corpses fast enough. Unless you only spam it and 3-4 other DOTs max. But in that case by running fewer DOTs than usual you're not taking full advantage of that 15% boost to DOTs. So you wind up loosing damage anyway. Talk about play how you want right?

I also love the design choice where you have to cast it 3 seconds before it runs out (you actually have to cast it even earlier if the enemy is running around and you have to chase it). And it you forget, which you will because no other buff needs to be cast like this, the GLS buff will run out and that fully charged Skull won't generate a corpse, which in turn means you'll be loosing damage because your Graveyard won't be empowered or you won't be able to refresh syphon.

And did I mention that it basically locks you into doing a stamina build? Try sustaining Venom Skull spam on a magica build. I've tried several times with many different skill combinations. You might still be able to if you run sustain food, but that would also wind up loosing you damage since you could run single stat or double stat food on either magica or stamina configurations without sustain issues with Stalking (and with the current Blighted actually).

Wait, we're not done. It's also a buggy mess. It has already been pointed out that it doesn't actually boost all of your necro abilities but I also found that it doesn't update the tooltips for proc sets correctly. Rele displays the same damage before and after you get buffed. Thankfully it does actually boost proc set damage, but even going for a full dot setup with Zaan+Rele+Pillar I wound up doing very similar damage using GLS as I did with Blighted, but I had to deal with sustain issues and a much clunkier and boring rotation.

This is the last point, I promise. Speaking of rotations if you run GLS you basically turn your necro into a much clunkier DK that also deals less damage. Cast the buff, place down 3-4 DOTs and then spam your spamable. Sounds fun doesn't it? And before you say "Buh my Oakensoul" no Oakensoul doesn't help. GLS doesn't synergize with Oakensoul at all since you're forgoing running a dot proc set like Zaan. Not to mention that if you run an Oakensoul build with SuckBones you'll only have a grand total of 4 skill slots available. 3 if you want to run a self heal. And 1 of those 3 is always locked into being Venom Skull. Talk about play how you want right?. "Buh my Oakensoul HA" SuckBones doesn't boost most HAs. Even with a lightning staff it doesn't boost the final and most powerful hit since it's direct damage.

At this point the only thing I can hope for is that not a single necro uses this worthless trash skill and ZOS realizes that they've wasted their time and money by redesigning a skill that literally no one wanted changed.

Erikx

Stalking Blastbones

I don’t know why anyone is surprised. Patch after patch our feedback is ignored. Then they go and post known issues after the patch dropped yesterday and it’s literally filled with bugs that people have been telling them about since pts released. There’s just zero quality control. I recommend people play a different game until they can fix their mess. It makes me so depressed that this great game is run by such an incompetent company.

Estin

Stalking Blastbones

ZOS needs to hire new chefs. The one who made GLS can't cook to save their life.

IncultaWolf

Stalking Blastbones

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert

This is very concerning, can anyone on the dev team comment on the state of necromancer? Is there a plan to fix this, or even help the class out of the grave? Even outside of blastbones, this class has abilities that just do not work such as empowering grasp, it does not buff the spirit mender as it says it does in the tooltip, among the ability itself missing most of the time even against a stationary pet. Also, the spirit mender can be seen by enemy players while you are in stealth, another issue because it will show them where you are hidden at, and even follow you, leading the player right to you.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/652492/for-the-love-of-god-fix-empowering-grasp

If grave lord's sacrifice absolutely has to stay for some reason, why did it also get a 5% nerf compared to the first version on the pts, which also included the feature of using a corpse consuming ability on yourself. Perhaps make it buff your class heals as well?

Deimus

Stalking Blastbones

Necromancer has been taking Ls since its inception in 2019

• Bonyard/Graverobber nerf
• Harmony nerfed to Oblivion
• Major Vulnerability nerf
• Spirit Mender nerf
• DoT nerf that affected Skeletal Mage, a skill that doesn't count as a DoT (Make it make sense)
• Now the complete removal of the hardest hitting Necro skill Stalking BB for yet another buff for the class to cast

I persisted through all of the others, but losing Stalking BB was the last straw to turn my Magcro into a Stamcro yesterday, and the only offensive move on my bar from my class kit was Blighted BB. It was so depressing I replaced Dizzying Swing with Ruinous Scythe just to feel like there was a point in me playing this build on Necro instead of any other class.

Still waiting for a response from the Dev team on what their vision for Necromancer is in the future, because this can't be it. Listen to your playerbase there is a virtual treasure trove of ideas from people that have put in the time on the class, and know its pain points. This change just proves that none of the Devs main Necromancer, because it doesn't fix any of the class issues, but instead adds on to existing problems while creating new ones.

• Short ability timers. If recasting the ability after 10 seconds still creates a corpse why can't the armor buff last 30 seconds or Mender last 20? I'll recast them when I need a corpse.
• Lack of buffs in class kit. Necro already doesn't have enough wiggle room on it's bars because it has to outsource it to guild or weapon skill lines to shore up its kit or waste the potion slot. Last thing we need is the best damage skill turned into another buff that takes up more bar space. Especially now that some classes are getting the "on either bar" treatment leaving Necro, a paid DLC class feeling more outdated than base game classes. Give Skeletal minion Major Brutality/Sorc when active or on either bar when slotted and raise both morphs to 25 seconds duration.
• Lack of a reliable execute and stun. Scythe is perfect for a scaling execute I mean it's a reaper's scythe! Grave Grasp is perfect for an instant stun, npc necromancers had the animation in the beta, but you gave it to the Kjalnar monster set instead? Rework grave grasp to have one morph be an instant stun for PvP and leave the other an AoE immobilize or snare for PvE.

Once you stock up the class toolkit then tweak the numbers to bring it on par with other classes.

Mesite

Stalking Blastbones

I would still like a third option of 'summon several permanent undead minions', but Stalking Blastbones would be fine.

Adremal

Stalking Blastbones

It's funny because there have been some very insightful suggestions for Necros that ZOS probably never even read, and now we have... whatever this is.

Deimus wrote: »

It was so depressing I replaced Dizzying Swing with Ruinous Scythe just to feel like there was a point in me playing this build on Necro instead of any other class.

This is why I don't touch my Necros anymore. Not the MagCro, not the StamCro.

Aldoss

Stalking Blastbones

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert

Waiting until update 42 PTS to get communication is not the appropriate response here.

I provided feedback, along with dozens of other necro mains, in the PTS forum. The skill is awful. It is the most absurd skill in ESO's history and you unveiled it at the start of the 10 year celebration year.

[snip]

The skill is such a broken and bad design it warrants a complete recall of the skill, mid patch. Take it out and put Stalking back in. Go fill those new Combat Team positions with people who are willing to consider all the classes in ESO and not just 3 and have them cook up a new vision for necro that fits the new state of the game.

Necro's vision was never good, but it's combat prowess was propped up by the combat mechanics of 2019-2020. That combat system is now gone and with it, so is necro. It's been indirectly nerfed in almost every patch with the changing of combat systems.

In fact, the defile change this patch is another indirect nerf to necro! I posted my full thoughts here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/654280/defile-should-not-have-been-touched/p1?new=1

Necro deserves more than this.

[edited for bashing]

KlauthWarthog

Stalking Blastbones

Grave Lord's Sacrifice is what you get when you design a skill out of sheer bad.

CameraBeardThePirate

Stalking Blastbones

Been using it for maybe 10 hours or so of PvP.

It is hands down the clunkiest, most useless buff that has ever been introduced into the game. I'm flabbergasted.

Neiska

Stalking Blastbones

I am a Necro Tank main, but I was hoping to have a mag off build for solo and overland. But I am genuinely confused as to what they expect, mag necros to just pop the buff every 17 seconds and spam skulls? Try to sneak in some iffy dots when you can? I mean, seriously here, what kind of playstyle are they expecting? I am at a loss here, and I genuinely question if they even see our concerns. They respond to other issues, but not to this. And there has been plenty of voiced concerns even when this was still in testing. I have only dabbled with mag necro, but to me it feels like it went from a C+ to a D.

I mean, lets say someone rolled a new necro, zero gear, zero CP, fresh start. What are they supposed to do, load skull and buff and just pew pew pew their way to 50?

Kalle_Demos

Stalking Blastbones

IncultaWolf wrote: »

From what I've read and seen, everyone who does serious pve parses that hit 100k+ have just swapped to the stamina morph of blastbones because it's actually easier of a rotation than grave lord's sacrifice, so the intended goal of reworking this ability failed.

It feels very clunky how you can't cast it out of combat anymore, and the 2.5 second cast time for grave lord's sacrifice feels really bad before you can even start doing damage or spamming skulls to cast a range tether or buffed graveyard.

I've been playing this game off and on since beta and this is honestly the worst change I've ever seen on any class.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1bcmtyo/rip_my_fave_necro_skill/

The 'in combat' is the aspect that concerns me the most. For reasons I do not understand, the devs seem to be against 'pre-buffing'. GLS looks like a test to see how the community will take such a direction. Not looking good for 'in combat' because, you know, fun.

Alaztor91

Stalking Blastbones

Idk how could anyone find Grave Lord's Sacrifice to be a better skill when compared to Stalking Blastbones. BB had/has(Blighted BB still exists) issues but GLS is even worse:

-''In-combat'' requirement to cast.
-Self-buff effect relies on the Skeleton jumping to your player character so the effect gets delayed at best and completely negated at worst.
-Forces you to use Flame Skull as a spammable to get the full effect from the buff. Spamming Flame Skull also causes sustain issues because it doesn't activate the Reusable Parts passive.
-Flame Skull minigame doesn't really makes the rotation easier when compared to BB minigame.

Blastbones was basically untouched since 2019, it was probably the most iconic skill from the Necromancer class. ZOS fundamentally changes this skill after 5 years, and this is what we get?

Urvoth

Stalking Blastbones

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Idk how could anyone find Grave Lord's Sacrifice to be a better skill when compared to Stalking Blastbones. BB had/has(Blighted BB still exists) issues but GLS is even worse:

-''In-combat'' requirement to cast.
-Self-buff effect relies on the Skeleton jumping to your player character so the effect gets delayed at best and completely negated at worst.
-Forces you to use Flame Skull as a spammable to get the full effect from the buff. Spamming Flame Skull also causes sustain issues because it doesn't activate the Reusable Parts passive.
-Flame Skull minigame doesn't really makes the rotation easier when compared to BB minigame.

Blastbones was basically untouched since 2019, it was probably the most iconic skill from the Necromancer class. ZOS fundamentally changes this skill after 5 years, and this is what we get?

Exactly, and that feedback was posted everywhere for ZOS to see before it went live. The fact that all the feedback was blatantly ignored just demonstrates ZOS's lack of respect towards the playerbase.

DanteTheDeviant

Stalking Blastbones

They didn't listen, big surprise.

C_Inside

Stalking Blastbones

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno
From the results of the poll it's clear that almost no one wants or will ever use GLS. This is a complete failure on the combat team's end and we'd seriously like a statement as to what the future of the Necro class will be.

Countless threads have been made both here and in the PTS section of the forum about the state of Necro, replies and comments from the community probably numbering in the thousands by now, yet not a single reply from anyone at ZOS.

The fact that so many of us care enough about this class to take time out of our day to give feedback here, only to be completely ignored is absolutely shameful. Especially considering that other threads get replies hours after they're created. If not sooner. We've been looking for answers for about a month now.

mariliaribas

Stalking Blastbones

I'm really curious to see what the people that voted for GLS like about the skill. At least for me, it feels like a overly complex self buff with extra steps that:

- can only be cast in combat
- has to have a target, which means you can line of sight your own buff
- is activated after 2.5 seconds, which means that you only actually start doing damage after 3 seconds in the fight
- locks you from using other spammables other than skull
- keeps you from making full use of the bonus of reusable parts every 3 seconds, increasing the overall cost of your rotation

Not only it didn't solve the unnecessary complexity of the class, it made it even worse and less rewarding, since we lost our highest hitting ability.

Aldoss

Stalking Blastbones

I think the most insightful thing about this poll is that there's over 60 people who care enough about necro to vote.

During MYM, my wife pulled the "kill 20 necros" quest on the first night and she decided to keep it out of curiosity.

We logged on every night for 3 hours.

She barely finished the quest on the final day and we didn't feel good about it because we hardcore griefed a poor necro quester in IC who kept reviving and coming back 5 times.

Necro is nowhere to be found in Tamriel and apparently doesn't even exist in the minds of the devs because they won't even talk to us about why necro has received a direct or indirect nerf every patch, except for one, for the last two years.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno your voices are needed. Why is this happening? What is being done about it?

CameraBeardThePirate

Stalking Blastbones

Friendly little reminder to all my Necro friends that Corpses have been bugged for over 6 months and are not consistently consumable.

Feel free to ping the devs in this post: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/654221/corpses-have-been-bugged-for-over-6-months-now-not-consumable#latest

Not that it'll do anything, because I've been asking for this to be fixed for months.

C_Inside

Stalking Blastbones

The fact that the 4 people that voted that they like the new Grave Lord's Suckrifice have taken the time to vote but haven't actually stated why they prefer the new skill leads me to believe that they either misclicked or just did it to be different.

Also @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno we're still eagerly awaiting any acknowledgement from you guys about the absolute state of necros.

Alaztor91

Stalking Blastbones

Happy 10th anniversary, right?

binho

Stalking Blastbones

It's an awful change, and it's hard to accept how they could just simply delete stalking blastbones from the game.
Page after page of good suggestions on how to improve the necromancer, and they made a point of going the opposite way and just completely ruin the class.
Not impressed

Xundiin

Stalking Blastbones

I don't understand why they even changed this. Necro is my favorite class and I loved it for the way it was. Now... I don't really want to even play it any more.