Hardened Ward heal making it to live is a mistake and needs to be changed

xylena_lazarow

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Jokes aside I do agree this changes a lot at a high level but also what percentage of players really operate at that level?

More than you think. Gamers are often allergic to admitting others have skill.

Bushido2513

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Jokes aside I do agree this changes a lot at a high level but also what percentage of players really operate at that level?

More than you think. Gamers are often allergic to admitting others have skill.

Well ok I should also say that question is platform specific. Also the term high level is very subjective. I know of several good players but only a few sorcs I've seen fight at a level that stands out, 1vx, wining duels with high level opponents or opponents on better classes, etc.

I've personally run into a lot more sorcs that I can kill. So over the years while I haven't fought every magsorc and am not the best player by farrrrrr, I'd say I haven't really experienced a lot of sorcs that really stand out at the top vs the number of sorcs I've run into overall.

That being said, this patch will bring out a lot of sorcs so over time my opinion might change drastically lol.

But back to platforms I can understand there might be a lot more sorcs that play at a higher level on platforms I'm not on so there's that

xylena_lazarow

Bushido2513 wrote: »

But back to platforms I can understand there might be a lot more sorcs that play at a higher level on platforms I'm not on so there's that

Games with proper balance don't use low to mid ladder as evidence for balance because any data, anecdotes, or videos from there is too skewed by skill issues. High ladder game data comes from optimal play without obfuscating skill issues, clearly showing the power level of the game pieces being used (and those not being used). Hard numbers from usage stats and win rates support player arguments.

This game has no ladder, no ELO, no meaningful MMR, no organized competitive community, no publicly available usage stats or win rates. All we have is theories, anecdotes, and gameplay videos. Players who do not understand the game will make bad takes (durp proc sets bad), which then are liked by other players who do not understand the game, giving the impression that this bad take has merit from its number of likes. 10 words of nonsense can take 10 pages of essays to debunk.

It must be very confusing for devs to try to make sense of the noise here, so no wonder the changes we get are confusing.

Jsmalls

Honestly I feel like Rallying cry is carrying this defense mechanism.

I've used setups with and without Rallying cry with 50-55k magicka. The Rallying Cry builds make ward feel MUCH stronger.

Without the extra 1650 crit resist it feels a lot more "balanced" in PvP.

Bastion is a CP star choice to buff this playstyle, there are other Stars that offer great bonuses that this is being chosen instead of.

And

Defile now effects the shield size.

But when 3500 crit resist is stacked your completely negating base crit damage. And fighting through 15k temporary health and 30k regular health with minimal critical damage is not going to be easy.

Do me a favor and fight a Mag Sorc without Rallying Cry, put points into the bastion star and try to work in a defile. And see how they do. I'm willing to bet that it feels significantly more balanced.

If it does then let's target an overperforming set and an overperforming CP star before we nerf ward into the ground because the previous version of Ward was not in a good place for the current state of the game.

xylena_lazarow

Jsmalls wrote: »

Honestly I feel like Rallying cry is carrying this defense mechanism

There is a separate thread on Rallying. Many don't even run it, the Alfiq/Wretched combo is popular.

Bushido2513

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

It must be very confusing for devs to try to make sense of the noise here, so no wonder the changes we get are confusing.

Agree with your assessment about the things this game lacks for sure!

Honestly I wouldn't expect devs to listen to anything on this forum. Feedback needs to be taken in a more orderly fashion and not through a bunch of comments and created threads. If anything I would expect them to mark something like that the thread was created and how much response it gets then go back to their own data regarding that particular issue.

No way I'd try to actually get any direction from these discussions.

Bushido2513

Just sharing this because I think it's good info but also because I appreciate that there's a seasoned magsorc of a higher caliber that also feels that this change will take more time to fully evaluate

https://youtu.be/uWWPVqEpa2Q?si=r-qKr0arwAuJqKxY

RomanRex

Strongly disagree with OP.

I am a sorc main of many years. This change provides needed survivability in PvP without being overturned. I still die plenty but can now stay alive long enough to actually be competitive.

THANK YOU ZOS for this very appropriate and welcomed change.

StaticWave

RomanRex wrote: »

Strongly disagree with OP.

I am a sorc main of many years. This change provides needed survivability in PvP without being overturned. I still die plenty but can now stay alive long enough to actually be competitive.

THANK YOU ZOS for this very appropriate and welcomed change.

It is overperforming though and there are just as many people who will disagree with you.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

Strongly disagree with OP.

I am a sorc main of many years. This change provides needed survivability in PvP without being overturned. I still die plenty but can now stay alive long enough to actually be competitive.

THANK YOU ZOS for this very appropriate and welcomed change.

It is overperforming though and there are just as many people who will disagree with you.

In some scenarios it overperforms and in others it probably feels just right. Also while people come and give input very few are saying what build they are using. I know the max mag is pretty common but there are others I'm sure like me that play it a little different or who might be using the heal to allow for off meta setups.

Point is that yes people can disagree but a lot of us are likely not talking about the same types of pvp experience being that different things make or break the experience for different people.

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

Strongly disagree with OP.

I am a sorc main of many years. This change provides needed survivability in PvP without being overturned. I still die plenty but can now stay alive long enough to actually be competitive.

THANK YOU ZOS for this very appropriate and welcomed change.

It is overperforming though and there are just as many people who will disagree with you.

In some scenarios it overperforms and in others it probably feels just right. Also while people come and give input very few are saying what build they are using. I know the max mag is pretty common but there are others I'm sure like me that play it a little different or who might be using the heal to allow for off meta setups.

Point is that yes people can disagree but a lot of us are likely not talking about the same types of pvp experience being that different things make or break the experience for different people.

It's just as strong on a 40k HP build with 7k spell damage lol

J18696

Just the fact in a optimal setup its allowing sorcs to heal through 7-9k dps and still output a acceptable amount of damage in duels is insane static is right to point this out no other class can do this without going almost full tank

Elrond87

what would shield breaker with minor and major defile do to it?

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

Strongly disagree with OP.

I am a sorc main of many years. This change provides needed survivability in PvP without being overturned. I still die plenty but can now stay alive long enough to actually be competitive.

THANK YOU ZOS for this very appropriate and welcomed change.

It is overperforming though and there are just as many people who will disagree with you.

In some scenarios it overperforms and in others it probably feels just right. Also while people come and give input very few are saying what build they are using. I know the max mag is pretty common but there are others I'm sure like me that play it a little different or who might be using the heal to allow for off meta setups.

Point is that yes people can disagree but a lot of us are likely not talking about the same types of pvp experience being that different things make or break the experience for different people.

It's just as strong on a 40k HP build with 7k spell damage lol

Again if you build it that way or feel comfortable running it that way. I guess I can understand that concept because I personally wouldn't build it the way you describe because that wouldn't fit my playstyle.

Also looking at the build video I shared Malcolm shows multiple builds that do involve ward being better but suggest multiple ways to build with some being workable just because ward is better.

Point is, that just because one build is making your point doesn't predict how many will actually use that build.

So when people are reporting a more normalized experience they may be running a different build or playing differently than you're describing.

The people that contribute to this thread that are on PC are a fraction of the PC player base.

It splits even further when you think of people that primarily duel, or primarily bg, zerg, etc


So posting the highest performing build only ends up meaning something if everyone or even the majority end up running that build and know how to effectively run it meaning they kill and don't die.

Otherwise if it's more of an acceptable mix when you factor in all pvp modes or ends up being acceptable over time due to hard to predict factors then it's less of an issue.


NB is a great example of this. When run efficiently the NB really can hardly be killed and could in theory two tapa a good account of the players and builds out there.

Several things help keep that in check and so it's annoying these days and I do want NB to get adjustments but they don't ruin the game for me while they do greatly frustrate others.

If everyone played the optimal NB build and knew how to run it I'd probably consider changing games lol.

So I get what you're seeing and don't deny that. I'm just adding that none of us can really see the whole picture at once and the people commenting here or even the people we know on the game are just data points in a much much bigger and nuanced picture.

Bushido2513

J18696 wrote: »

Just the fact in a optimal setup its allowing sorcs to heal through 7-9k dps and still output a acceptable amount of damage in duels is insane static is right to point this out no other class can do this without going almost full tank

I mean it does suck for duels I'll give you that. I think it sucks in general what ZOS has allowed to happen in duels. They just don't balance for that content so while it does suck there are v many other modes and views to consider.

Jsmalls

J18696 wrote: »

Just the fact in a optimal setup its allowing sorcs to heal through 7-9k dps and still output a acceptable amount of damage in duels is insane static is right to point this out no other class can do this without going almost full tank

This is not accurate. No Sorc is healing through 7-9k damage AND putting out sustained high DPS.

We like to point out that Sorc is only using two active abilities to "heal" Ward and Crit Surge but we all know very well that crit surge and blood magic require you to be offensive to heal. So if you're taking THAT much damage you're recasting ward EVERY gcd because if you didn't you'd be dead. And I can speak to this very well because in the PTS I dueled players putting 5-6k DPS on me with Wardens taking advantage of the new status effect changes and asylum staff. I was abusing Max Magicka stacking to test it's strength and while I was able to tank that and still output something like 2500-3000 DPS, i was definitely unable to stay offensive long enough to kill them, and I lost every fight (I'm also not a top dueler so would like to put that out there). And I was significantly more defensive than offensive in every fight that I was dealing with that high of DPS (I was not using Rallying Cry or other meta sets).

So yeah I'm sure this new ward can tank 7-9k damage per second. But it's going to be done so by going defensive in the fight. Which every class can do....

The difference you are seeing is most other classes will block cast and dodge roll damage to mitigate. Which Sorcs of course do as well. But any block casted Ward is taking full damage (artificially increasing Opponents DPS when compared to another blocking class). And dodge rolling while more effective in a 1vX scenario has it's cons when using wards in a 1v1. If you're saying an average player is outputting 3500 DPS, it takes 4 seconds to break a ward. If you dodge roll you miss an attack GCD and you're increasing the chances your Ward expires over time versus from damage received which overall is wasted stamina for that defensive cycle.

At the end of the day yes Wards need to be adjusted. But there is so much about this defensive mechanic that is being overlooked. You can't look at it like traditional healing with a health pool. It's going to artificially absorb more damage because it's temporary and you want it to take damage.

Run the same damage rotation against a templar and a Sorc and the same rotation will do more damage to the Sorc. That's just how it is.

xylena_lazarow

Bushido2513 wrote: »

I mean it does suck for duels I'll give you that. I think it sucks in general what ZOS has allowed to happen in duels. They just don't balance for that content so while it does suck there are v many other modes and views to consider.

Face tanking a 6k+ dps competitive dueler approximately translates to face tanking 6+ casuals in open world. Probably fine for a slow tanky brawler with relatively low damage, but face tanking multiples on a ranged nuke damage build that also has the best mobility in the game? Again. This is like giving Cloak to DK.

Players demand that their favorite class be able to do everything, then wonder where class identity went...

TechMaybeHic

Elrond87 wrote: »

what would shield breaker with minor and major defile do to it?

The problem with shield breaker is that it gives you 12% increased damage against shielded targets. Something like Shattered fate gives you 12% more damage through their resists. Its just not good enough over other sets that are less situational.

But you should run bastion even if you don't use shields as it gives damage against shielded targets as well. Will not help in BGs though

StaticWave

Jsmalls wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Just the fact in a optimal setup its allowing sorcs to heal through 7-9k dps and still output a acceptable amount of damage in duels is insane static is right to point this out no other class can do this without going almost full tank

This is not accurate. No Sorc is healing through 7-9k damage AND putting out sustained high DPS.

We like to point out that Sorc is only using two active abilities to "heal" Ward and Crit Surge but we all know very well that crit surge and blood magic require you to be offensive to heal. So if you're taking THAT much damage you're recasting ward EVERY gcd because if you didn't you'd be dead. And I can speak to this very well because in the PTS I dueled players putting 5-6k DPS on me with Wardens taking advantage of the new status effect changes and asylum staff. I was abusing Max Magicka stacking to test it's strength and while I was able to tank that and still output something like 2500-3000 DPS, i was definitely unable to stay offensive long enough to kill them, and I lost every fight (I'm also not a top dueler so would like to put that out there). And I was significantly more defensive than offensive in every fight that I was dealing with that high of DPS (I was not using Rallying Cry or other meta sets).

So yeah I'm sure this new ward can tank 7-9k damage per second. But it's going to be done so by going defensive in the fight. Which every class can do....

The difference you are seeing is most other classes will block cast and dodge roll damage to mitigate. Which Sorcs of course do as well. But any block casted Ward is taking full damage (artificially increasing Opponents DPS when compared to another blocking class). And dodge rolling while more effective in a 1vX scenario has it's cons when using wards in a 1v1. If you're saying an average player is outputting 3500 DPS, it takes 4 seconds to break a ward. If you dodge roll you miss an attack GCD and you're increasing the chances your Ward expires over time versus from damage received which overall is wasted stamina for that defensive cycle.

At the end of the day yes Wards need to be adjusted. But there is so much about this defensive mechanic that is being overlooked. You can't look at it like traditional healing with a health pool. It's going to artificially absorb more damage because it's temporary and you want it to take damage.

Run the same damage rotation against a templar and a Sorc and the same rotation will do more damage to the Sorc. That's just how it is.

I can prove you wrong right now but I’m not gonna bother cause there’s no point.

RomanRex

I’ve not had any negative experiences against other sorcs so far with this going live. Theory crafting how to min/max into a perfect build is great, but impractical.

Most people won’t pour through logs to see how they can make their heals/dps bump a few more percentage points. You can do this with any class by the way, and claim a certain skill needs to be buffed/nerfed, it’s just sorc that is now in the limelight.

Most people who main sorc and play casually (like me) want more survivability without being over powered. Competitive and still engaging. That is exactly what this change accomplished. A big win for encouraging more casual players to engage with PvP.

StaticWave

RomanRex wrote: »

I’ve not had any negative experiences against other sorcs so far with this going live. Theory crafting how to min/max into a perfect build is great, but impractical.

Most people won’t pour through logs to see how they can make their heals/dps bump a few more percentage points. You can do this with any class by the way, and claim a certain skill needs to be buffed/nerfed, it’s just sorc that is now in the limelight.

Most people who main sorc and play casually (like me) want more survivability without being over powered. Competitive and still engaging. That is exactly what this change accomplished. A big win for encouraging more casual players to engage with PvP.

Again, casual players will die on any class, whether that’s DK, NB, Warden, Sorc, Arc, etc. Put a top tier player on a top tier class though, and problem arises.

There are ways to help casual players without making it broken for the top end players, which is what almost all my arguments are about.

So instead of giving it a burst heal with a 15% scaling, you could instead turn it into a HoT over 4 seconds. Now there’s actual counterplay without compromising survivability for casual players. You could also just reduce the scaling to 5% or so, and it would still be strong.

Lots of ways to make Sorc survive better, but burst heal with a 15% max mag/hp scaling UNDER a shield ain’t the way.

Jsmalls

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Just the fact in a optimal setup its allowing sorcs to heal through 7-9k dps and still output a acceptable amount of damage in duels is insane static is right to point this out no other class can do this without going almost full tank

This is not accurate. No Sorc is healing through 7-9k damage AND putting out sustained high DPS.

We like to point out that Sorc is only using two active abilities to "heal" Ward and Crit Surge but we all know very well that crit surge and blood magic require you to be offensive to heal. So if you're taking THAT much damage you're recasting ward EVERY gcd because if you didn't you'd be dead. And I can speak to this very well because in the PTS I dueled players putting 5-6k DPS on me with Wardens taking advantage of the new status effect changes and asylum staff. I was abusing Max Magicka stacking to test it's strength and while I was able to tank that and still output something like 2500-3000 DPS, i was definitely unable to stay offensive long enough to kill them, and I lost every fight (I'm also not a top dueler so would like to put that out there). And I was significantly more defensive than offensive in every fight that I was dealing with that high of DPS (I was not using Rallying Cry or other meta sets).

So yeah I'm sure this new ward can tank 7-9k damage per second. But it's going to be done so by going defensive in the fight. Which every class can do....

The difference you are seeing is most other classes will block cast and dodge roll damage to mitigate. Which Sorcs of course do as well. But any block casted Ward is taking full damage (artificially increasing Opponents DPS when compared to another blocking class). And dodge rolling while more effective in a 1vX scenario has it's cons when using wards in a 1v1. If you're saying an average player is outputting 3500 DPS, it takes 4 seconds to break a ward. If you dodge roll you miss an attack GCD and you're increasing the chances your Ward expires over time versus from damage received which overall is wasted stamina for that defensive cycle.

At the end of the day yes Wards need to be adjusted. But there is so much about this defensive mechanic that is being overlooked. You can't look at it like traditional healing with a health pool. It's going to artificially absorb more damage because it's temporary and you want it to take damage.

Run the same damage rotation against a templar and a Sorc and the same rotation will do more damage to the Sorc. That's just how it is.

I can prove you wrong right now but I’m not gonna bother cause there’s no point.

Do you recognize the fact that shields take full damage when block casting versus health pools that take decreased damage when block casting? That isn't up for debate it's hard facts.

So how can you say that DPS number for attacks against shields and health are going to be the same? I get you want your side of things to be correct, but let's not ignore facts now...

The mechanic of a shield is to absorb damage not avoid the damage entirely. Plus with bastion added into the mix it's taking an additional 15% damage from the Non-damage oriented Red tree artificially increasing DPS done.

Like sorry but you're wrong. Shielded players are effected by a higher DPS than non shielded players. Numbers are Numbers.

xylena_lazarow

StaticWave wrote: »

Lots of ways to make Sorc survive better, but burst heal with a 15% max mag/hp scaling UNDER a shield ain’t the way.

For those who don't see why that's a problem: the intended advantage of shields is that you can preload them against incoming damage, which is something very powerful that burst heals can never do, so shield specs were given the intended drawback that it would be harder to recover if you do get chunked. Yes, you're supposed to still take execute damage when you shield up at low hp, yes you're supposed to be in the danger zone if your shield gets popped at low hp.

By adding a spammable burst heal to Hardened Ward, your shield skill is now preloading mitigation AND recovering from low hp at the same time, completely negating its intended drawback.

By contrast, arcs will die if they only spam Impervious, because the heal is single use and needs to be charged up in the first place. They still need to run some combination of Vigor, Runeguard, Chakram, and/or hots from things like Blood Craze. This requires spending resources, gcds, and active upkeep. Sorcs don't need to do this. They slot passives and press 1 button. Dropping a shield arc with no crux to low hp makes them very vulnerable, shield sorcs no longer have this weakness.

Classes are supposed to have strengths and weaknesses. Damage dealer sorcs that can nuke from range and have the best mobility in the game aren't supposed to face tank in the first place, let alone with 1 button. No DK melee brawlers are doing that and never have. This Hardened Ward burst heal makes as much sense as giving Cloak to DK.

Some have suggested converting it to a HoT but that would still be 1 button to do it all, sorcs should have to run at least 1 other active healing skill on their bar like every other class. Maybe replace the heal with the major crit chance buff, which would remove the need for Camo Hunter and let sorcs actually fit that other healing skill.

StaticWave

Jsmalls wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Just the fact in a optimal setup its allowing sorcs to heal through 7-9k dps and still output a acceptable amount of damage in duels is insane static is right to point this out no other class can do this without going almost full tank

This is not accurate. No Sorc is healing through 7-9k damage AND putting out sustained high DPS.

We like to point out that Sorc is only using two active abilities to "heal" Ward and Crit Surge but we all know very well that crit surge and blood magic require you to be offensive to heal. So if you're taking THAT much damage you're recasting ward EVERY gcd because if you didn't you'd be dead. And I can speak to this very well because in the PTS I dueled players putting 5-6k DPS on me with Wardens taking advantage of the new status effect changes and asylum staff. I was abusing Max Magicka stacking to test it's strength and while I was able to tank that and still output something like 2500-3000 DPS, i was definitely unable to stay offensive long enough to kill them, and I lost every fight (I'm also not a top dueler so would like to put that out there). And I was significantly more defensive than offensive in every fight that I was dealing with that high of DPS (I was not using Rallying Cry or other meta sets).

So yeah I'm sure this new ward can tank 7-9k damage per second. But it's going to be done so by going defensive in the fight. Which every class can do....

The difference you are seeing is most other classes will block cast and dodge roll damage to mitigate. Which Sorcs of course do as well. But any block casted Ward is taking full damage (artificially increasing Opponents DPS when compared to another blocking class). And dodge rolling while more effective in a 1vX scenario has it's cons when using wards in a 1v1. If you're saying an average player is outputting 3500 DPS, it takes 4 seconds to break a ward. If you dodge roll you miss an attack GCD and you're increasing the chances your Ward expires over time versus from damage received which overall is wasted stamina for that defensive cycle.

At the end of the day yes Wards need to be adjusted. But there is so much about this defensive mechanic that is being overlooked. You can't look at it like traditional healing with a health pool. It's going to artificially absorb more damage because it's temporary and you want it to take damage.

Run the same damage rotation against a templar and a Sorc and the same rotation will do more damage to the Sorc. That's just how it is.

I can prove you wrong right now but I’m not gonna bother cause there’s no point.

Do you recognize the fact that shields take full damage when block casting versus health pools that take decreased damage when block casting? That isn't up for debate it's hard facts.

So how can you say that DPS number for attacks against shields and health are going to be the same? I get you want your side of things to be correct, but let's not ignore facts now...

The mechanic of a shield is to absorb damage not avoid the damage entirely. Plus with bastion added into the mix it's taking an additional 15% damage from the Non-damage oriented Red tree artificially increasing DPS done.

Like sorry but you're wrong. Shielded players are effected by a higher DPS than non shielded players. Numbers are Numbers.

Oh I know shield shows up different on CMX. So what? Remove 2k DPS from a 9k DPS fight to account for this and it’s still a Sorc tanking 7k DPS in a full damage build. And you conveniently ignore the fact that Sorc is doing that with 1 skill.

You know what? I’m getting tired of arguing vs people who just talk and don’t provide anything for their arguments. I’ve been posting clips and CMX. Now it’s your turn to prove your point. You guys argued that other classes can do the same right? Please hop on every other class, remove all HoTs, and only use a burst heal. Please go tank 7k DPS while in a full damage build for me, while still doing 3k+ DPS. If you can do that I will tell the mods to delete this thread.

xylena_lazarow

StaticWave wrote: »

You know what? Please hop on every other class, remove all HoTs, and only use a burst heal. Please go tank 7k DPS while in a full damage build for me, while still doing 3k+ DPS. If you can do that I will tell the mods to delete this thread.

@Jsmalls also try doing this on damage arc with only Impervious Ward. Good luck.

Jsmalls

@xylena_lazarow

Agree with the previous post made. The burst heal took away the weaknesses of that skill.

That being said Wards were not in a good place pre Update 41. They remain to be the worst scaling defensive mechanic and the DPS creep completely outclassed their values.

We needed a burst heal not tied to a cast time or pet (encase morph) and we needed major prophecy / savagery in class to replace magelight.

We got a burst heal that we can't slot due to bar space, we didn't get major prophecy, but ward got overloaded.

And we really needed a blood magic rework.... It shouldn't work for one ability (mines are useless) and it having it tied to an ability that is only worth using when proc makes it too inconsistent (I recognize that it is awesome with crystal weapons but once again only works with one ability....)

StaticWave

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

You know what? Please hop on every other class, remove all HoTs, and only use a burst heal. Please go tank 7k DPS while in a full damage build for me, while still doing 3k+ DPS. If you can do that I will tell the mods to delete this thread.

@Jsmalls also try doing this on damage arc with only Impervious Ward. Good luck.

Templar with 29-30k resist and 3.7k crit resist sitting in Rune + Ritual with Living Dark, Vigor and HoTD can maybe tank 6-7k DPS, but that’s really pushing it. You also need like 4 HoTs and a 5 debuff cleanse to complement the burst heal. You also need to sit in the Rune + Ritual, aka become a literal punching bag, just to tank that kind of dmg. Sorc is doing that with 1 skill, while having Streak and can Streak into the sunset if needed.

And these dudes telling me it’s a fair comparison and Ward isn’t busted. Hysterical 🤣🤣

xylena_lazarow

Jsmalls wrote: »

We got a burst heal that we can't slot due to bar space, we didn't get major prophecy, but ward got overloaded.

Replacing the burst heal with passive Major Prophecy/Savagery on Ward could potentially solve all these issues, the only thing I wouldn't like about that is it leaves stam sorcs in the dust, but it's simplest I can think of.

RomanRex

While the fervent concerns are clear, I have had no encounters with anyone in PvP made overpowered by these changes. Good players are still good players.

If there are videos of combat that begin to emerge demonstrating dual god-like survivability and DPS based on this skill alone, I will recant.

Until then this is hypothetical and not worth the amount of attention it has received. I am
grateful for the changes.

Jsmalls

@StaticWave

Templar:

Living dark, 10 seconds, grants Minor Sorcery, ticks every half second, grants ultimate, and slows targets

Extended Ritual, 30 second: PURGES, is a HoT, grants Minor mending, scales with lower health, grants teammates ultimate.

Rune, 20-25 seconds: provides major resolve (same as us using hurricane which we DO need to keep up...) but also provides sustain, DRASTICALLY increases healing done, provides minor mending, scales with lower health.

HotD: Grants sustain back, synergizes with Rune for insane burst heals, scales with lower health.

Sorcerer:

Hardened ward: Is a shield and small heal, offers NO other bonuses. THIS is the ability being complained about....

Crit Surge: OFFENSIVE heal and Major Sorcery, NO other bonuses

Bound Aegis: Minor resolve, minor protection, Max Magicka is a PASSIVE "active" ability

Not including magelight cuz it's available to all to use.

Hardened Ward offers no group bonuses, doesn't offer any major or minor buffs or debuff is just a flat reactive and proactive button. Doesn't supplement any other part of our kit. It's a stagnant ability. And they gave it a cheap bandaid buff to try to make it better.