Hardened Ward heal making it to live is a mistake and needs to be changed

Turtle_Bot · July 21

Zabagad wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

It’s also that the buff crystal frag can be used off any skill instantly and it gets a significant buff in damage. It proc way to often and allows for Sorc to help burst down its target. The biggest issue I have with that skill is it can proc off itself. I have gotten it to go 7x in a row. Crystal frag imo should only proc off Sorc skills and never proc from itself. That would fix that problem.

@Jsmalls @Turtle_Bot
Can one of you two acknowledge that this is possible?

After Static wrote that 2 weeks ago, I thought that his "back to back proc" has a different meaning then I understand "back to back" from sports, but after MEBengalsFan2001 now claims to get 7 in a row I'm confused.

I never ever had a procced frag which procced another frag.
Three options:
1) It's not possible and static+MEB say something wrong
2) I'm the unluckiest Sorc in Eso
3) I'm doing something wrong

Can one of you help me pls?

I've never had a frags proc that then proc'd another frags proc. Sounds like something that should not be possible.

I have had it where I cast an ability that procs frags then I cast that proc'd frags then the next cast of an ability (that is not the frags proc) will proc another frags, if this is what they meant by "back to back".

Would look something like the following:
Ability -> Frags proc -> Ability -> Frags proc -> Ability -> Frags proc -> Ability -> etc.

I've had this (shown above) happen a few times, but it has been up to 3 times "back to back" at most for me. I've never had this happen 7 times in a row before. I will say though that this is theoretically possible, but it seems more like a lottery moment than something that is reliable.

Sounds like MEB needs to go buy a lotto ticket if they got 7 frags procs in a row as shown above.

StaticWave · July 21

Zabagad wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

It’s also that the buff crystal frag can be used off any skill instantly and it gets a significant buff in damage. It proc way to often and allows for Sorc to help burst down its target. The biggest issue I have with that skill is it can proc off itself. I have gotten it to go 7x in a row. Crystal frag imo should only proc off Sorc skills and never proc from itself. That would fix that problem.

@Jsmalls @Turtle_Bot
Can one of you two acknowledge that this is possible?

After Static wrote that 2 weeks ago, I thought that his "back to back proc" has a different meaning then I understand "back to back" from sports, but after MEBengalsFan2001 now claims to get 7 in a row I'm confused.

I never ever had a procced frag which procced another frag.
Three options:
1) It's not possible and static+MEB say something wrong
2) I'm the unluckiest Sorc in Eso
3) I'm doing something wrong

Can one of you help me pls?

I said back to back as in cFrag procs every time you use a skill. The actual cFrag proc doesn't proc itself, but the hard cast does proc itself.

So I've had moments where my rotation looked like this:

Crushing Shock > cFrag proc > Crushing Shock > cFrag proc > Ward > cFrag proc > Crushing Shock > cFrag proc.

Those are the "back to back" procs I talked about.

You could also hard cast cFrag and then use another cFrag proc right after, so it's possible as a spammable.

Zabagad · July 21

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I've never had a frags proc that then proc'd another frags proc. Sounds like something that should not be possible.
[...]
Sounds like MEB needs to go buy a lotto ticket if they got 7 frags procs in a row as shown above.

Ty

StaticWave wrote: »

I said back to back as in cFrag procs every time you use a skill. The actual cFrag proc doesn't proc itself, but the hard cast does proc itself.

So I've had moments where my rotation looked like this:

Crushing Shock > cFrag proc > Crushing Shock > cFrag proc > Ward > cFrag proc > Crushing Shock > cFrag proc.

Those are the "back to back" procs I talked about.

You could also hard cast cFrag and then use another cFrag proc right after, so it's possible as a spammable.

Ty for claryfication!
As a non native speaker I only know "back to back champion" for two in a row....

Turtle_Bot · July 21

StaticWave wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

It’s also that the buff crystal frag can be used off any skill instantly and it gets a significant buff in damage. It proc way to often and allows for Sorc to help burst down its target. The biggest issue I have with that skill is it can proc off itself. I have gotten it to go 7x in a row. Crystal frag imo should only proc off Sorc skills and never proc from itself. That would fix that problem.

@Jsmalls @Turtle_Bot
Can one of you two acknowledge that this is possible?

After Static wrote that 2 weeks ago, I thought that his "back to back proc" has a different meaning then I understand "back to back" from sports, but after MEBengalsFan2001 now claims to get 7 in a row I'm confused.

I never ever had a procced frag which procced another frag.
Three options:
1) It's not possible and static+MEB say something wrong
2) I'm the unluckiest Sorc in Eso
3) I'm doing something wrong

Can one of you help me pls?

I said back to back as in cFrag procs every time you use a skill. The actual cFrag proc doesn't proc itself, but the hard cast does proc itself.

So I've had moments where my rotation looked like this:

Crushing Shock > cFrag proc > Crushing Shock > cFrag proc > Ward > cFrag proc > Crushing Shock > cFrag proc.

Those are the "back to back" procs I talked about.

You could also hard cast cFrag and then use another cFrag proc right after, so it's possible as a spammable.

yeah, this is definitely possible, as I said, I've had it happen for me before, I've just only had it up to 3 times in a row (I must just be unlucky I guess).

Zabagad · July 21

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

yeah, this is definitely possible, as I said, I've had it happen for me before, I've just only had it up to 3 times in a row (I must just be unlucky I guess).

1) I added you in the above comment via edit...
2) Honestly I never counted that one and sure 7 or even more is possible - but this shouldn't be a big problem, because of the probabilities.

My concern was really with "back to back" phrase and followed up by 7 in a row that I was really surprised, but thanks to clarification and your input I know that I don't miss anything

Turtle_Bot · July 21

Something else that is worth mentioning is that it is also possible to go 10+ casts without triggering a single frags proc (something that happens for me quite frequently).

In fact due to the proc chance of frags being 33%, it is statistically on average twice as likely to get 7 casts in a row with zero frags procs than it is to get 7 frags procs in a row.

Bushido2513 · July 21

StaticWave wrote: »

Fengrush mains Sorc and is a pretty objective player when it comes to PvP balance. I would take his opinion into consideration if I were ZOS devs.

Hardened Ward change was warned on 1st week of U40 PTS update by several players like myself. It's a shame that 5 months have past and nothing is done to fix this issue.

But on the flip side I do enjoy being able to survive executes and ganks now. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I get out of them with no effort but more so I'll be at death's door and be able to come back based on quick reaction time. At the higher end build it seemed if you just managed ward closely you didn't even get to execute or so far into it. That's probably where I'd say I see a bit of an issue because then it's just simple and easy ward management vs reaction, planning, etc

StaticWave · July 21

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Fengrush mains Sorc and is a pretty objective player when it comes to PvP balance. I would take his opinion into consideration if I were ZOS devs.

Hardened Ward change was warned on 1st week of U40 PTS update by several players like myself. It's a shame that 5 months have past and nothing is done to fix this issue.

But on the flip side I do enjoy being able to survive executes and ganks now. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I get out of them with no effort but more so I'll be at death's door and be able to come back based on quick reaction time. At the higher end build it seemed if you just managed ward closely you didn't even get to execute or so far into it. That's probably where I'd say I see a bit of an issue because then it's just simple and easy ward management vs reaction, planning, etc

I think defensively Sorc is just in a really weird spot right now. Surge and Blood Magic passive are great sources of healing on offense, but they fall off when you start kiting. That’s why I proposed Crit Surge reworked to have a 100% proc rate but reduced tooltip. It’s less healing when going offensive, sure, but it’s more healing when kiting and that’s what Sorc needs.

Bushido2513 · July 21

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Fengrush mains Sorc and is a pretty objective player when it comes to PvP balance. I would take his opinion into consideration if I were ZOS devs.

Hardened Ward change was warned on 1st week of U40 PTS update by several players like myself. It's a shame that 5 months have past and nothing is done to fix this issue.

But on the flip side I do enjoy being able to survive executes and ganks now. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I get out of them with no effort but more so I'll be at death's door and be able to come back based on quick reaction time. At the higher end build it seemed if you just managed ward closely you didn't even get to execute or so far into it. That's probably where I'd say I see a bit of an issue because then it's just simple and easy ward management vs reaction, planning, etc

I think defensively Sorc is just in a really weird spot right now. Surge and Blood Magic passive are great sources of healing on offense, but they fall off when you start kiting. That’s why I proposed Crit Surge reworked to have a 100% proc rate but reduced tooltip. It’s less healing when going offensive, sure, but it’s more healing when kiting and that’s what Sorc needs.

Yes the problem for me with sorc is that I need a solution that allows me to actively heal myself by making the right choices when I'm under pressure.

Shields and vigor or some other hot wasn't a bad option but it just promoted the same bar space issue. One thing I like about ward now is that it gives me back a little bar space for some minor flexibility.

I wouldn't mind if they walked the change back or made it a hot or whatever really, as long as I get to somehow keep my bar space and bit of flexibility while having a chance against the harsh environment of procs, ganks, and extreme executes.

Crit surge at 100 percent with a lower tooltip sounds like lifesteal which is ok but I'd really rather see something in theme with sorc or that isn't a copy of something already existing. That being said I'd take whatever as long as it allowed the things I'm looking for above.

Jsmalls · July 22

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

xylena_lazarow · July 22

Jsmalls wrote: »

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

Have you played these two MagSorc variants in Gray Host? Attrition strats are commonplace here.

Jsmalls · July 22

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

Have you played these two MagSorc variants in Gray Host? Attrition strats are commonplace here.

I've played all MagSorc setups that I'm aware of.

What makes the suggested variant better in any way than the one I mentioned? Stat for stat there is a clear winner. Chudan versus Balorgh alone is laughable to the competitive player.

xylena_lazarow · July 22

Jsmalls wrote: »

I've played all MagSorc setups that I'm aware of. What makes the suggested variant better in any way than the one I mentioned? Stat for stat there is a clear winner. Chudan versus Balorgh alone is laughable to the competitive player.

Don't underestimate bar compression. Can't comment on Chudan because I put Roksa on everything. Quality of MagSorcs I go against depends more on bars and ability to land combos, than set choices. Gray Host has plenty of attrition dueling builds that try to prey on aggressive open world builds that go for fast kills. You should play on Gray Host.

Alchimiste1 · July 22

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

I think you are wrong. Chudan has been a staple set in many magsorc 1vX videos. From metallic monk, Malcom, and ulopi. You can type any of their names on YouTube and you’ll see 1vXs with chudan and similar bar setups.

Bushido2513 · July 23

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

@Jsmalls

Just to note I pretty much saw this same thing but just put it on as requested for the sake of testing. I could see a few ways to spruce it up but it wasn't going to get to where I like for my particular style of playing. Like you've I've tried all the main builds and even some fun builds.

This particular build is very usable in all formats and I think would survive well in open world depending on how you like to play. But yeah damage could be improved for sure and so could survivability. Feel so cookie cutter if you go that route though.

StaticWave · July 23

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.

Bushido2513 · July 23

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.

I use it but I'd have to agree on haven't seen anyone else using it. It really fits into my build but I can definitely seeing average or even more by the numbers sorcs not using it at all.

TechMaybeHic · July 23

I use hurricane. I've been running Nibenay for crit resist that makes up for a lot of the divines trait and its alos funny to have nearly 30-35k shields if someone tries to pull me while streaking away.

Galeriano2 · July 23

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

I'm ok with just putting an upper limit on the ability of the skill or changing the scaling past a certain point.

This used to be in the game, it was called "soft caps" where stacking a stat past a certain point would result in harshly diminishing returns, this was very good for the game and absolutely tragic that they removed it in order to market "infinite progression" with the CP system. Soft caps would solve Hardened Ward, Polar Wind, and more.

Soft caps were solving as many issues as they were creating and that's during way less complex era of ESO's combat. Somehow softcaps didn't preven't balance from being bad during their era. Only thing that would be achieved with soft caps is changing the meta but they wouldn't prevent game from being unbalanced and certain setups from being broken..

Turtle_Bot · July 24

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I use hurricane. I've been running Nibenay for crit resist that makes up for a lot of the divines trait and its alos funny to have nearly 30-35k shields if someone tries to pull me while streaking away.

I've been running Hurricane too and this is what I've been doing for the monster set as well.

Nibenay is almost mandatory for high ping players in OW, even sorcs.
Ball groups, chain spammers, bombers, RoA spam, etc are everywhere lately, especially in GH that seems to be nothing but ball groups now on PC EU.

xylena_lazarow · July 24

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Nibenay is almost mandatory for high ping players in OW, even sorcs. Ball groups, chain spammers, bombers, RoA spam, etc are everywhere lately, especially in GH that seems to be nothing but ball groups now on PC EU.

Nibenay isn't keeping you alive against ball groups. It maybe saves you against solo bombers while doing jack nothing 99% of the time. The fact that anyone even considers running this garbage should show how broken pulls are right now. Being instantly yanked across the map, with no telegraph or warning, and then taking 60k damage because you dared "play alongside your allies" and one of them was a squishy noob who died. Awful game design all around.

The prevalence of pull sets also feeds into the range spam meta. Why brawl when you can be a permanently invisible proc stack ganker who deals 20k damage with one button, or a teleporting battlecruiser who can nuke without ever risking getting into pull range in the first place. In conclusion, nerf Hardened Ward.

TechMaybeHic · July 24

Yeah, ball groups you mostly see coming and just stay out of range, but if you dare actually try to take a flag in a confined area, you just take the L even with Nibenay. It's really just because the 1 piece gives some crit resist and zergs like to spam pulls even on single targets, and especially kiting type players. Otherwise; blind pulls are do much easier to avoid at range

Jsmalls · July 24

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.

@StaticWave

That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.

Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?

Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.

I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.

In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.

Bushido2513 · July 24

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Nibenay is almost mandatory for high ping players in OW, even sorcs. Ball groups, chain spammers, bombers, RoA spam, etc are everywhere lately, especially in GH that seems to be nothing but ball groups now on PC EU.

Nibenay isn't keeping you alive against ball groups. It maybe saves you against solo bombers while doing jack nothing 99% of the time. The fact that anyone even considers running this garbage should show how broken pulls are right now. Being instantly yanked across the map, with no telegraph or warning, and then taking 60k damage because you dared "play alongside your allies" and one of them was a squishy noob who died. Awful game design all around.

The prevalence of pull sets also feeds into the range spam meta. Why brawl when you can be a permanently invisible proc stack ganker who deals 20k damage with one button, or a teleporting battlecruiser who can nuke without ever risking getting into pull range in the first place. In conclusion, nerf Hardened Ward.

But if you nerf ward how will I survive the battle cruisers lol? Seriously though procs and one other player took me and my ward down to like 800 health sooooo yeah there's that.

Bushido2513 · July 24

Jsmalls wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.

@StaticWave

That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.

Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?

Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.

I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.

In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.

Interesting thing though is that magsorc can build up to 500 and really put your rolls and blocking to the test or get lucky with the frag procs. At the same time they can be setup to where you can't kill them. It's like when s NB just keeps building bows and incaps. At some point one of those tries will hit

xylena_lazarow · July 24

Bushido2513 wrote: »

But if you nerf ward how will I survive the battle cruisers lol? Seriously though procs and one other player took me and my ward down to like 800 health sooooo yeah there's that.

If we nerf Hardened Ward, how will I ever survive other Sorc players? Easy, shoot them first.

The Tarnished proc stack gankers are a problem and should be nuked from the meta.

Bushido2513 · July 24

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

But if you nerf ward how will I survive the battle cruisers lol? Seriously though procs and one other player took me and my ward down to like 800 health sooooo yeah there's that.

If we nerf Hardened Ward, how will I ever survive other Sorc players? Easy, shoot them first.

The Tarnished proc stack gankers are a problem and should be nuked from the meta.

That's true I'm fine with skill vs skill determining the outcome. I thought the battle cruisers were the proc stackers, my bad.

So in this case nerf order could matter lol. Vamp change will already be interesting

TechMaybeHic · July 25

As I play my sorc more and get better at it, I'll say hardened ward has been a good set of training wheels. I can probably get rid of the Nibenay as I keep my shield up a lot better and rarely feel pressured outside of a ball group bombing. All while hitting someone trying to run away with a 8-9k meteor and and 8-9k curse and saw they died before the frag got there as I am starting to get a feel for the combo and using streak very offensively. I was just imagining what balorgs would have looked like Oh no; they might try to block curse next patch when I am already streaking through them.

Durham · July 25

I can't believe this last patch. There was nothing to address the Ward, they even admitted that NBs were over-tuned and buffed them more! I just don't get it. I think they must be understaffed or something at this point. They used to be more proactive. I thought they would address at least the annoying sound of glass breaking everywhere! If you pvp you will hear glass breaking all night in your sleep!

Jsmalls · July 25

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

As I play my sorc more and get better at it, I'll say hardened ward has been a good set of training wheels. I can probably get rid of the Nibenay as I keep my shield up a lot better and rarely feel pressured outside of a ball group bombing. All while hitting someone trying to run away with a 8-9k meteor and and 8-9k curse and saw they died before the frag got there as I am starting to get a feel for the combo and using streak very offensively. I was just imagining what balorgs would have looked like Oh no; they might try to block curse next patch when I am already streaking through them.

@TechMaybeHic

The coefficient difference between meteor and curse is approximately ~30% higher for meteor.

If you're gonna make up numbers you mine as well be consistent.

Also meteor is telegraphed and very easy to counter. The timing required to guarantee meteor to hit with streak is extremely difficult (coming from a veteran Sorc). The reason Templars javelin is so popular with meteor is because there is a significant animation involved with the Hard CC (Knockback) versus Streak (stun) you can break free from streak and immediately block the meteor. This will also be the case for curse now.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been killed by Streak Meteor (it's unpopular for a reason).

Dawnbreaker is just the superior ultimate for Sorc (also is physical damage which gets buffed by our passive).