Official Discussion Thread, "Make the Most Out of Making Things During the Crafter’s Celebration"

Jaraal · February 18

lydra wrote: »

And then on top of that, the in-game posting for the event where the majority of players see the splash screen still lists this feature (I realize this is a technical limitation...but this is a good example of why better QA is important)

This is something I don't understand. I'm not a professional computer programmer.... but isn't the splash screen a jpg, bmp, png, webp, or some other graphics file? And it's not possible to simply swap in a different picture with the correct information on it?

VileNord · February 18

To add to the frustration, I got a gold jewelry writ worth 220 vouchers today. I eagerly crafted the ring and turned it in to get....220 vouchers. So, the double vouchers bonus doesn't even seem to work on new master writs.

edit: I figured it out, the 220 was already doubled. Not the way round I was expecting it to be.

PrincessOfThieves · February 18

It would've been an awesome event if the 50% cheaper reconstruction actually worked.

Aliniel · February 18

This event has absolutely no added value for me. It's called Crafter's Celebration but what does it bring to the crafters?

Double vouchers on writs. Yeah, kinda nice, but what does it change for us who do daily writs on multiple characters? Nothing. Just extra rewards for doing the exact same thing. Ultimately, not much of an impact.

Double node drops. Nothing we haven't already seen. It tries to motivate you to grind mats. But mats can be bought and we get them from daily writs, surveys and daily logins. Ultimately, it will fill up certain zones with people farming and thus intervening with your own farming. And let's be honest... farming is boring.

Extra inspiration... sigh. The game's been out for 10 years. Those who wanted to max their characters, maxed them long time ago. But yeah... it gave me a chance to sell my intricate items with some premium.

And then we have the drama with the transmutation exploit. Some people filled up their coffers with Nirncruxes while the ones who are honest and didn't want to exploit did not. In the end we lost the 50% cost reduction. So, literally no added value whatsoever. Even if the cost reduction was still in, it means little to those who already have their characters equipped or who used their crystals a week or two ago.

So yeah, for someone like me, who does daily writs on 20 characters and have full research on almost all of them, this doesn't bring anything of value. Daily writs supply me with plenty of gold and mats. So, I don't need more of those.

Crafting has been the exact same for the past 10 years. I got excited for a moment when I saw we got an event, but the excitement evaporated really fast. I don't even know what I'd expect from such an event. Daily writs give us various mats, gold, surveys and master writs. We hoard surveys and master writs and do them during a double XP event. I think I would welcome such an opportunity during crafter's celebration. More XP, or some additional reward from master writs/surveys. People say it's unfair to those who don't hoard them, but they don't complain about double nodes. It's pretty much the exact same thing - those who farmed the mats they needed prior to this event are now left disappointed and frustrated.

These events should be made regular and it should be known when they are going to happen way beforehand. E.g., every 1st week of a month. This way, people can plan their activities. If they need to craft some extra gear, farm mats, etc. they can use these events to do so. But popping them randomly on us doesn't make much sense to me. If they become regular and known in advance, people can plan and decide whether to wait for them or just go ahead and farm/craft outside the event.

Ilumia · February 18

I am enjoying this event, I don't have time to do loads, so I haven't been dissapointed by not getting half transmute cost since I didn't plan on using that anyway. I've just been getting a few jewelry master writs that are nice and cheap to craft, and I can save them for later - so pretty greateful for those - thanks

Indigo_Shade · February 18

Am a Master Crafter (title) with multiple Daily Writ toons and my main focus for this short event was Writ Vouchers. 4 out of 5 days in, I have 3 gold Enchantment Master Writs (normally I see 2-3 purple ones a month and a rare gold one less often) and 2 cheesy Cloth Master Writs. I had already gotten 3 gold gear Master Writs earlier in the week and on average, that is my luck for the week.

My second focus was resource nodes. I have the CP rewards to not only harvest fast but also for a chance at double resources. I really could not tell if the event was giving me a boost with additional resources or not. I have spent maybe 5 total hours so far harvesting alchemy, gear mat, and rune nodes and saw no sign of an actual boost going on.

I also did some transmuting last weekend and had no reason to do more, and only have a few transmute crystals for any event-related transmuting anyway.

So my takeaway from this event is that the duration time is too short, the rewards are intangible, possibly broken, and over all this event was a complete bust for me and most players I talked to.

I also vaguely recall this is the second time they have done this event or something like it, and it went no better the first time.

Not sure who this event targeted, but I think it was meant for newbie crafters.

lydra · February 18

Jaraal wrote: »

This is something I don't understand. I'm not a professional computer programmer.... but isn't the splash screen a jpg, bmp, png, webp, or some other graphics file? And it's not possible to simply swap in a different picture with the correct information on it?

I also don't fully understand this myself, but I personaly work as a Visual Designer and have a close friend that works as a UI dev for another live services game and he's confirmed this is actually a problem.

Here's my guess of what the fix would be:

Art depatment has to make the new graphic (not that hard, these assets are a standardized size and probably templated)
Graphic needs to go through some sort of Approvals process (this is imporant but can probably be expidited due to issue)
Graphic needs to go through some sort of technical processing (also probably not hard)
UI Dev needs to update the code (difficulty of this update is probably dependant on their engine)
Updates need to go through code review (??? this is where things probably start to go a little off the rails)
Server is taken offline to push patch. (oof)

Add on top that the likelyhood that art department probably finished their part of this weeks ago and have moved on to other projects and the UI Dev may have finished more recently but also now be assigned to other projects, the team might not consider this a top priority, especially if it means taking the servers offline which might be the worst of two evils (incorrect info live for the duration of the event vs. servers down for a significant portion of the event.)

Now add in the issue that this issue was discovered on Thursday before a long weekend. A weekend many people burn a vacation day on to get a 4 or even 5 day weekend. Is the art department still in office? The UI dev? The team doing the code review?

Is this the actual process? I don't know. But I know for a fact that in some live services games it is. And ESO is a comparatively older game, more likely to be handcuffed like this.

FlopsyPrince · February 18

lydra wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

This is something I don't understand. I'm not a professional computer programmer.... but isn't the splash screen a jpg, bmp, png, webp, or some other graphics file? And it's not possible to simply swap in a different picture with the correct information on it?

I also don't fully understand this myself, but I personaly work as a Visual Designer and have a close friend that works as a UI dev for another live services game and he's confirmed this is actually a problem.

Here's my guess of what the fix would be:
Art depatment has to make the new graphic (not that hard, these assets are a fixed size)

Graphic needs to go through some sort of Approvals process (this is imporant but can probably be expidited due to issue)

Graphic needs to go through some sort of technical processing (also probably not hard)

UI Dev needs to update the code (difficulty of this update is probably dependant on their engine)

Updates need to go through code review (??? this is where things probably start to go a little off the rails)

Server is taken offline to push patch. (oof)

Add on top that the likelyhood that art department probably finished their part of this weeks ago and have moved on to other projects and the UI Dev may have finished more recently but also now be assigned to other projects, the team might not consider this a top priority, especially if it means taking the servers offline which might be the worst of two evils (incorrect info live for the duration of the event vs. servers down for a significant portion of the event.)

Now add in the issue that this issue was discovered on Thursday before a long weekend. A weekend many people burn a vacation day on to get a 4 or even 5 day weekend. Is the art department still in office? The UI dev? The team doing the code review?

Is this the actual process? I don't know. But I know for a fact that in some live services games it is. And ESO is a comparatively older game, more likely to be handcuffed like this.

A well-designed system will allow updating pictures and much text without a full refresh to production.

Though it would also have a serious QA process intentionally trying to both find flaws and trying to break things. I am not convinced the process at ZOS is as strong as it should be.

Errors happen and some errors need to get fixed quickly. Though ZOS has a different definition of those than users/players in some cases (based on past actions). Not a surprise for an MMO of course.

Though I would look at the "broken windows theory" and apply it here. Unfortunately the problems runs in the type of game and is not unique.

lydra · February 18

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

A well-designed system will allow updating pictures and much text without a full refresh to production.

Though it would also have a serious QA process intentionally trying to both find flaws and trying to break things. I am not convinced the process at ZOS is as strong as it should be.

Errors happen and some errors need to get fixed quickly. Though ZOS has a different definition of those than users/players in some cases (based on past actions). Not a surprise for an MMO of course.

Though I would look at the "broken windows theory" and apply it here. Unfortunately the problems runs in the type of game and is not unique.

Oh I certainly agree. While I'm not a computer programer and can't speak to how difficult designing something like this actually is to develop I also feel that any well designed system *should* be able to update pictures fairly quickly without major interuptions. The question is if ESO is well designed.

There is a bug in this game that results in someone who is queing for a dungeon via the group finder tool to not be ported in with their group. This bug occurs so often that pretty much every player knows not just about the bug, but what the work around is well before they hit 50. It is my understanding it's been in the game for years and there is no reason to believe the devs will ever fix it.

Oh. I guess we know if this game is well designed then.

I still love ESO, but let's just say this game offers many, many unusual and unexpected features for their players to experience.

Destai · February 19

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

lydra wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

This is something I don't understand. I'm not a professional computer programmer.... but isn't the splash screen a jpg, bmp, png, webp, or some other graphics file? And it's not possible to simply swap in a different picture with the correct information on it?

I also don't fully understand this myself, but I personaly work as a Visual Designer and have a close friend that works as a UI dev for another live services game and he's confirmed this is actually a problem.

Here's my guess of what the fix would be:
Art depatment has to make the new graphic (not that hard, these assets are a fixed size)

Graphic needs to go through some sort of Approvals process (this is imporant but can probably be expidited due to issue)

Graphic needs to go through some sort of technical processing (also probably not hard)

UI Dev needs to update the code (difficulty of this update is probably dependant on their engine)

Updates need to go through code review (??? this is where things probably start to go a little off the rails)

Server is taken offline to push patch. (oof)

Add on top that the likelyhood that art department probably finished their part of this weeks ago and have moved on to other projects and the UI Dev may have finished more recently but also now be assigned to other projects, the team might not consider this a top priority, especially if it means taking the servers offline which might be the worst of two evils (incorrect info live for the duration of the event vs. servers down for a significant portion of the event.)

Now add in the issue that this issue was discovered on Thursday before a long weekend. A weekend many people burn a vacation day on to get a 4 or even 5 day weekend. Is the art department still in office? The UI dev? The team doing the code review?

Is this the actual process? I don't know. But I know for a fact that in some live services games it is. And ESO is a comparatively older game, more likely to be handcuffed like this.

A well-designed system will allow updating pictures and much text without a full refresh to production.

Though it would also have a serious QA process intentionally trying to both find flaws and trying to break things. I am not convinced the process at ZOS is as strong as it should be.

Errors happen and some errors need to get fixed quickly. Though ZOS has a different definition of those than users/players in some cases (based on past actions). Not a surprise for an MMO of course.

Though I would look at the "broken windows theory" and apply it here. Unfortunately the problems runs in the type of game and is not unique.

I'm surprised it requires a full build. I'd expect it to be a webservice with a standard definition that just pulls the latest information across all the events. Even if there's custom fields, most webservice have general purpose parameters to allow that extensibility. This feels more like a baked in-game image holder than anything, just given that it requires a full redeployment.

SpaPooP · February 19

Anyone determine what "Appropriate Rarity" really meant for the Deconstruction Bonus?

I'm about to do some housecleaning no matter what but would be interested to know if what I am getting is a bonus or not.

virtus753 · February 19

SpaPooP wrote: »

Anyone determine what "Appropriate Rarity" really meant for the Deconstruction Bonus?

I'm about to do some housecleaning no matter what but would be interested to know if what I am getting is a bonus or not.

I believe it refers to the fact that if you decon a gold item, you have a chance at the gold mat, never purple or blue or green. Purple items would only give a purple mat, etc.

The event should give you a better chance at getting that mat, but it won’t allow you to get mats you otherwise couldn’t.

Destai · February 19

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

Would have been nice if ZOS was professional enough to announce this a few days before it began, instead of after.

We noted this elsewhere but this was meant to be a surprise event. So we did not plan on announcing this in advance. We planned on having the article published when the event went live, but we then had some event issues that changed up the timing. We understand the rollout has been confusing and are working to address this in the future.

So why are surprise events even a thing then? It's pretty clear advanced notice is required, especially if most of the players are professional adults. You can say you understand the frustration, but seeing surprise events with issues, doesn't make me feel like that perspective's even being considered. Feels like a vicious cycle here, because this points keeps coming up. When you say you're "working to address this in the future", does that mean ZOS will be prepared to provide advanced notice on every event? Cuz that's what's being asked for.

I hope surprise events continue to be a thing! The ticket events are announced in advance, usually. Why must everything be??? Some of is actually like pleasant surprises so having a mix of announced and surprise events seems ideal to me.

Were this something with smaller scope out-the-gate, like double XP or something, then I wouldn't bat an eye.

When an event is focused on major activities that normally require a lot of gold and grind to get, then advanced notice is nice. Getting transmutes stones and gearing takes a while; getting master writs takes a while too, even with alts. Crafting is a major activity that requires a lot of work. Any event around it should be treated carefully and with notice.

On top of that, this is the 2nd event this year, and it's February, with some big issues. The scope was pretty large, needed more testing, and communication. The rolled back feature list we have now is more appropriate for a surprise event, but now they have to do deal with the fallout of changing something once it was delivered.

I'm incredibly disappointed that writs only double their vouchers if they're acquired this weekend. People hoard them, so we can get the crafting tables for guild halls. 77 sets. That's my goal for the year. If not longer. That's something I spent $400 over the holiday to support getting a guildhall. Seeing the things I've worked towards not get the surprise bonus they sprung on us, feels pretty insulting.

And lastly, I've been pretty clear that I appreciate the gesture of a surprise event. Getting crafting bonuses for a weekend is much appreciated.

If it was double vouchers for ANY writ, then I could well understand people being upset as having hoarded them or not would make a huge difference in the reward, but since it’s only for writs that drop during the event, everyone has the same chance based on the usual factors that influence drops from crafting writs.

I do agree that the description of the event is confusing, made worse by having recon discount oh so briefly and then not, which all makes it feel more frustrating than it should.

I can totally see where people would be mad if they just completed a pile of Master Writs before a surprise event that would've had a bonus. From that perspective, agreed. But I'm advocating for a planned event that would be both well communicated, so people expect it in summer or whatever, and has a bonus to Master Writs. Think of like it a loyalty reward for those of us spending countless hours crafting and investing in housing.

Araneae6537 · February 19

Destai wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

Would have been nice if ZOS was professional enough to announce this a few days before it began, instead of after.

We noted this elsewhere but this was meant to be a surprise event. So we did not plan on announcing this in advance. We planned on having the article published when the event went live, but we then had some event issues that changed up the timing. We understand the rollout has been confusing and are working to address this in the future.

So why are surprise events even a thing then? It's pretty clear advanced notice is required, especially if most of the players are professional adults. You can say you understand the frustration, but seeing surprise events with issues, doesn't make me feel like that perspective's even being considered. Feels like a vicious cycle here, because this points keeps coming up. When you say you're "working to address this in the future", does that mean ZOS will be prepared to provide advanced notice on every event? Cuz that's what's being asked for.

I hope surprise events continue to be a thing! The ticket events are announced in advance, usually. Why must everything be??? Some of is actually like pleasant surprises so having a mix of announced and surprise events seems ideal to me.

Were this something with smaller scope out-the-gate, like double XP or something, then I wouldn't bat an eye.

When an event is focused on major activities that normally require a lot of gold and grind to get, then advanced notice is nice. Getting transmutes stones and gearing takes a while; getting master writs takes a while too, even with alts. Crafting is a major activity that requires a lot of work. Any event around it should be treated carefully and with notice.

On top of that, this is the 2nd event this year, and it's February, with some big issues. The scope was pretty large, needed more testing, and communication. The rolled back feature list we have now is more appropriate for a surprise event, but now they have to do deal with the fallout of changing something once it was delivered.

I'm incredibly disappointed that writs only double their vouchers if they're acquired this weekend. People hoard them, so we can get the crafting tables for guild halls. 77 sets. That's my goal for the year. If not longer. That's something I spent $400 over the holiday to support getting a guildhall. Seeing the things I've worked towards not get the surprise bonus they sprung on us, feels pretty insulting.

And lastly, I've been pretty clear that I appreciate the gesture of a surprise event. Getting crafting bonuses for a weekend is much appreciated.

If it was double vouchers for ANY writ, then I could well understand people being upset as having hoarded them or not would make a huge difference in the reward, but since it’s only for writs that drop during the event, everyone has the same chance based on the usual factors that influence drops from crafting writs.

I do agree that the description of the event is confusing, made worse by having recon discount oh so briefly and then not, which all makes it feel more frustrating than it should.

I can totally see where people would be mad if they just completed a pile of Master Writs before a surprise event that would've had a bonus. From that perspective, agreed. But I'm advocating for a planned event that would be both well communicated, so people expect it in summer or whatever, and has a bonus to Master Writs. Think of like it a loyalty reward for those of us spending countless hours crafting and investing in housing.

I’d be on board for that!