Official Discussion Thread, "Make the Most Out of Making Things During the Crafter’s Celebration"

Destai · February 15

UrQuan wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

So why are surprise events even a thing then? It's pretty clear advanced notice is required, especially if most of the players are professional adults. You can say you understand the frustration, but seeing surprise events with issues, doesn't make me feel like that perspective's even being considered. Feels like a vicious cycle here, because this points keeps coming up. When you say you're "working to address this in the future", does that mean ZOS will be prepared to provide advanced notice on every event? Cuz that's what's being asked for.

The goal is to provide a fun bonus event and engage in a different way. We often here about how events are predictable. These types of events are meant to help throw some fun variety into the mix.

When saying "working to address this in the future" we mean take your feedback along with everyone else feedback, learn what worked and what didn't and try a different approach next time. We have a wide audience that likes surprises, just like we have a group that would like us to list every date for every event coming in the future. We are trying to address different groups here and it is a balancing act.

Again, not saying this was executed in the best way, but there are more things at play then only appealing to a working professional (which I personally understand as someone who likes having a schedule as a working adult). We'll continue to take feedback here and get it to the powers that be to discuss how we can improve here.

For the record, while I prefer to have events announced in advance, I'm also totally fine with surprise mini events. My frustration with this particular one comes from the fact that everything I was initially excited about for it turned out to not be exactly as advertised, and in the end nothing I care about at all. Initial excitement followed by a letdown. The biggest letdown for me is taking away the half price reconstruction. I understand it was removed to avoid an exploit with reconstructing followed by deconning to gain extra transmutes, but it really feels like that's something that should have been anticipated and planned for.

I was going to make this point too. ZOS has to be careful about what to surprise us with. Stuff like crafting and reconstructing gear has a lot of gold and time involved for players, so having advanced notice on something potentially impactful is nice. If it were surprise double XP weekend, by all means, please.

duagloth · February 15

LOL never ceases too amaze me how bad this company runs their game.

Ingenon · February 16

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

The goal is to provide a fun bonus event and engage in a different way. We often here about how events are predictable. These types of events are meant to help throw some fun variety into the mix.

When saying "working to address this in the future" we mean take your feedback along with everyone else feedback, learn what worked and what didn't and try a different approach next time. We have a wide audience that likes surprises, just like we have a group that would like us to list every date for every event coming in the future. We are trying to address different groups here and it is a balancing act.

Again, not saying this was executed in the best way, but there are more things at play then only appealing to a working professional (which I personally understand as someone who likes having a schedule as a working adult). We'll continue to take feedback here and get it to the powers that be to discuss how we can improve here.

Thanks for posting this to explain! I think that ZOS succeeded in throwing some fun variety into the mix.

I'm glad I checked the forum here and found that the reduced transmute crystal reconstruct cost was removed before I started gearing up some alts that need new sets.

I am grateful for this event. The 100% inspiration gain should help with power leveling crafting for several of my alts who have less than level 50 in all crafting disciplines.

dcrush · February 16

So you can remove something that’s beneficial to players very quickly, but you cannot change an image that appears in-game that gives the wrong information. Sounds about ZOS.

Reginald_leBlem · February 16

virtus753 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

3) LET SURVEYS HAVE DOUBLE DROPS. Please, I am begging you.

Surveys can already get double drops with Plentiful Harvest. The event bonus stacks multiplicatively with PH where both apply, so this would result in some very high numbers (80+ raw base mats per node, for example). It might be why the event bonus doesn’t apply here.

I don't care. Nothing bad happens if people doing surveys get a lot of mats a few days in a row. Double drops should count for surveys.

jle30303 · February 16

Honestly, why not take it in the spirit it's meant?

All of what you get from the event is "better than it would have been if the event didn't exist".

So what if master writs obtained during the event are the only ones with increased writ voucher rewards? 1 extra voucher is more than 0. You got a freebie. And you probably got a better chance of actually getting those master writs in the first place. And you can save the "bonus" vouchers till after the event - till, say, an event with an intrinsic XP bonus.

So what if the "reduced costs on reconstruction" didn't work because some people immediately abused it to make items for 12, deconstruct them for 25, and get free transmute stones ad infinitum, and the only way to avoid *that* would have been to actually keep tabs on every single item that was made during the period, and make sure that each such item was marked as "only gives 12 stones instead of 25 when deconstructed"? Okay, so that's *a bonus you don't get because people abused it and the devs had to remove it*. It's still not an actual penalty. It's still not WORSE than outside the event.

So what if survey nodes are exempt from the doubling of resource nodes? They usually are in *other* instances that double resource node output as well. That isn't a surprise. Pick one resource that isn't from a survey node, and you've still got a plus from this event.

Honestly, throw free stuff at people and they complain it wasn't five times as good.

*MY* biggest annoyance is that I refined all my Platinum yesterday and thus didn't get as much jewelry platings as I would have if I'd refined it today.

virtus753 · February 16

jle30303 wrote: »

Honestly, why not take it in the spirit it's meant?

All of what you get from the event is "better than it would have been if the event didn't exist".

So what if master writs obtained during the event are the only ones with increased writ voucher rewards? 1 extra voucher is more than 0. You got a freebie. And you probably got a better chance of actually getting those master writs in the first place. And you can save the "bonus" vouchers till after the event - till, say, an event with an intrinsic XP bonus.

So what if the "reduced costs on reconstruction" didn't work because some people immediately abused it to make items for 12, deconstruct them for 25, and get free transmute stones ad infinitum, and the only way to avoid *that* would have been to actually keep tabs on every single item that was made during the period, and make sure that each such item was marked as "only gives 12 stones instead of 25 when deconstructed"? Okay, so that's *a bonus you don't get because people abused it and the devs had to remove it*. It's still not an actual penalty. It's still not WORSE than outside the event.

So what if survey nodes are exempt from the doubling of resource nodes? They usually are in *other* instances that double resource node output as well. That isn't a surprise. Pick one resource that isn't from a survey node, and you've still got a plus from this event.

Honestly, throw free stuff at people and they complain it wasn't five times as good.

*MY* biggest annoyance is that I refined all my Platinum yesterday and thus didn't get as much jewelry platings as I would have if I'd refined it today.

Is there actually a bonus for refining? It's only for improvers gained on deconstructing, per the wording. Elsewhere on the forums people tested and claimed to see no noticeable difference in refining rates.

dcrush · February 16

jle30303 wrote: »

Honestly, why not take it in the spirit it's meant?

All of what you get from the event is "better than it would have been if the event didn't exist".

So what if master writs obtained during the event are the only ones with increased writ voucher rewards? 1 extra voucher is more than 0. You got a freebie. And you probably got a better chance of actually getting those master writs in the first place. And you can save the "bonus" vouchers till after the event - till, say, an event with an intrinsic XP bonus.

So what if the "reduced costs on reconstruction" didn't work because some people immediately abused it to make items for 12, deconstruct them for 25, and get free transmute stones ad infinitum, and the only way to avoid *that* would have been to actually keep tabs on every single item that was made during the period, and make sure that each such item was marked as "only gives 12 stones instead of 25 when deconstructed"? Okay, so that's *a bonus you don't get because people abused it and the devs had to remove it*. It's still not an actual penalty. It's still not WORSE than outside the event.

So what if survey nodes are exempt from the doubling of resource nodes? They usually are in *other* instances that double resource node output as well. That isn't a surprise. Pick one resource that isn't from a survey node, and you've still got a plus from this event.

Honestly, throw free stuff at people and they complain it wasn't five times as good.

*MY* biggest annoyance is that I refined all my Platinum yesterday and thus didn't get as much jewelry platings as I would have if I'd refined it today.

Why accept that, after years of ZOS saying they will improve their communication, they still have wrong information in-game? It’s basically false advertising at this point.

Why accept that they make an announcement for something that is very beneficial to players and then reverse it because they didn’t properly think about the consequences?

In my native language this would be called “making someone happy with a dead sparrow”.

Anyway, good for those who enjoy the extra node drops. It’s basically the explorer’s event without the XP bonus.

UrQuan · February 16

jle30303 wrote: »

Honestly, why not take it in the spirit it's meant?

Yes, how dare people give honest feedback about how underwhelmed they are by the event in the thread that's specifically looking for player feedback on the event!

Nobody is saying that the event doesn't still give some bonus stuff that they wouldn't get otherwise. Just that it ended up being a disappointing and underwhelming event that doesn't make us especially care about participating.

SirLeeMinion · February 16

UrQuan wrote: »

I'm going to summarize my experience with this surprise event...

Same. Read about the event, installed writworthy, did two writs and some basic math, came to the forums to see what I was missing, sighed and logged off.

FlopsyPrince · February 16

I personally don't need more crystal drops. I have too many as it is! I wish I could save more. Not enough to "ruin things" but enough so gearing an alt doesn't eliminate my stash!

TheMajority · February 16

Honestly, why not take it in the spirit it's meant?

Because an event that claims to reward crafters for their efforts isn't actually rewarding them for effort and time spent working on their account prior to the event.

Double writ vouchers means nothing if RNG decides you aren't getting any master writs.

Double gathering? The explorers event does a better job of offering an event with better additional bonuses along side double gathering. Double gathering in and of itself is not significant since it occurs multiple times a year. Its nice, but it's uninteresting compared to the bonuses that were removed.

Discount on transmuting? Oh, thanks- but those of us who already had a discount on reconstruction because we worked hard and were diligent about filling out our sticker books don't benefit at all from this. ZOS didn't test the event properly before hand, so we get punished rather than rewarded by having the bonus taken away. In fact, the people that do benefit from this are also being punished because they could have done it for less transmutes as well.

Increased mats from deconstructing? Interesting, but I have yet to see any real uptick in benefits from this.

People are upset because this wouldn't be the first time ZOS didn't test an event thoroughly and something went wrong. In fact, there was a major fiasco over Maelstrom arena dropping vet weapons on normal only a month ago, and some people lost time playing the event because they were scared that they might get banned for running the arena on normal. I did not use the forums at the time, but Tons of people in world chat were talking about it.

It's better to speak up and show a company that you are tired of improper testing and rewards being nerfed, rather than rolling over with a smile and saying it's okay. You start doing that, and they get away with more and more.

The spirit it was meant in was supposedly to celebrate crafters and their hard work, and that isn't happening. Instead we have a rather mundane gathering and grinding event that has people going "meh" instead of being excited about actually CRAFTING sets.

Krayvaan · February 16

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

xosaara137ox wrote: »

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin!

Can we get clarification on this:
+100% Writ Vouchers earned from Master Writs created during the event

Does this mean the voucher buff is only applied to new writs DURING the event window? Or can you save the new master writs for after the event and still get double vouchers?

If the writ was obtained during the celebration window, saving them for after should keep the bonus amount. So you can cash them in after and get the bonus still.

This is SO frustrating. I used one of the expensive Legendary Jewellery master writs that I was saving; got zero bonus writ vouchers.
I would have spent the mast for it, on gear I need to help my guild do trials.

This was a major communication failure. That detail should be in the summary bullet points on the announcement page.
Not having to be searched out in the replies of a specific thread in the forum.

Murderhound · February 16

You all know how to shoot yourselves in the foot. Literally took away the value of the event because it wasn't thought through. It clearly states I can reconstruct for half. Now we can't, that's garbage. And the writs piece is just ridiculous. Nothing in the post states only writs earned during the event.

I'm editing this, to be clear it's great that you have surprise events. They just need to be thought through when presenting benefits. And frankly if you make a mistake for a short term event. Roll with it, don't pull out the hammer and "fix" it till after the event is done. Will people benefit, sure, but you can only max out at 1000 transmutes anyways so it's still limited. The market for an item or 2 will be impacted until the excess is sold through. Realistically low impact, except to nirncrux sellers. Though to be fair people will be farming that anyways since the double node drops are going, so there will be excess anyways. @ZOS_Kevin

Tigertron · February 16

If you never announced it no one would have even noticed. At least I’m glad I tested the information before I actually tried to utilize it.

Nothing to see. Move along.

Araneae6537 · February 16

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

Would have been nice if ZOS was professional enough to announce this a few days before it began, instead of after.

We noted this elsewhere but this was meant to be a surprise event. So we did not plan on announcing this in advance. We planned on having the article published when the event went live, but we then had some event issues that changed up the timing. We understand the rollout has been confusing and are working to address this in the future.

I think surprise events are awesome and fun!

In the case of this event, even if you just reconned some gear, did a bunch of writs, or whatever, you had chosen to do that anyway — this is still a bonus! You don’t have to strategize and maximize everything but take advantage of when good fortune comes your way and most of all, have fun!

Araneae6537 · February 16

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

Would have been nice if ZOS was professional enough to announce this a few days before it began, instead of after.

We noted this elsewhere but this was meant to be a surprise event. So we did not plan on announcing this in advance. We planned on having the article published when the event went live, but we then had some event issues that changed up the timing. We understand the rollout has been confusing and are working to address this in the future.

So why are surprise events even a thing then? It's pretty clear advanced notice is required, especially if most of the players are professional adults. You can say you understand the frustration, but seeing surprise events with issues, doesn't make me feel like that perspective's even being considered. Feels like a vicious cycle here, because this points keeps coming up. When you say you're "working to address this in the future", does that mean ZOS will be prepared to provide advanced notice on every event? Cuz that's what's being asked for.

I hope surprise events continue to be a thing! The ticket events are announced in advance, usually. Why must everything be??? Some of is actually like pleasant surprises so having a mix of announced and surprise events seems ideal to me.

ClericPro · February 16

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

These types of events are meant to help throw some fun variety into the mix.

Does it bother you that such an organization of a sudden event caused a lot of negative emotions?
As well as the fact that avoiding these mistakes was very simple.

Araneae6537 · February 16

But whatever happened to the reconstruct at half cost? I can’t find a notice that this was disabled, much less why, or did it never work?

tindomiel4 · February 16

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I think surprise events are awesome and fun! In the case of this event, even if you just reconned some gear, did a bunch of writs, or whatever, you had chosen to do that anyway — this is still a bonus! You don’t have to strategize and maximize everything but take advantage of when good fortune comes your way and most of all, have fun!

Respectfully, I admire your cheerful attitude, but ESO is not a gift. It is a product that many of us spend money, and all of us spend time, on. The producers of this game have shown an increasing tendency to ignore (or misinterpret) feedback, pad the game with grind and microtransactions, punish players for doing things that devs put in the game, and otherwise degrade the player experience and disrespect the player base. All of the complaints in this official discussion thread reflect the frustration too many of us feel about ZOS’ words and actions. It’s increasingly difficult to believe that they want to do better (or even that they can). We don’t have to be happy when they throw us scraps. They should be concerned about whether we want to continue giving them money.

Araneae6537 wrote: »

But whatever happened to the reconstruct at half cost? I can’t find a notice that this was disabled, much less why, or did it never work?

(P.S., the notice that it was altered is, as of writing, only in forum threads like this one, which is a prime example of the communication problems. People are not angry for no reason.)

(P.S.S., the event would have been more of a surprise if they hadn’t mentioned it in the daily login rewards announcement, which makes this mess even more confusing.)

Sarannah · February 16

Surprise events like this should NOT get advanced notice. It's a game, not a job. You do not have to be 100% effective/prepared all the time, just have fun. No matter what you do, or how fast, you will always progress that which you are trying to progress.

Surprise events like this actually benefit players who are going to play anyways, as they are the ones who first notice there is an event.

Some of you seem to be playing a spreadsheet more than playing the actual game. And this is even without mentioning add-ons. Just have fun! You do not have to run your harvesting node routine, you do not have to do all the crafting dailies, you do not have to complete all master writs, you do not have to prepare before the event. Just have fun, play the actual game!

loosej · February 16

Sarannah wrote: »

Some of you seem to be playing a spreadsheet more than playing the actual game. And this is even without mentioning add-ons. Just have fun! You do not have to run your harvesting node routine, you do not have to do all the crafting dailies, you do not have to complete all master writs, you do not have to prepare before the event. Just have fun, play the actual game!

Some of us like spreadsheets, play how you want, right?

Kallykat · February 16

I like the idea of crafting weekend mini events, and I hope the kinks get worked out next time. I would also like to request that in future iterations of this event there be a reduction to research timers at crafting stations or research scrolls given out. I'm still working on learning traits on several alts, and it takes forever!

Groterdan · February 16

Not noticing any extra rewards from deconstructing. Refining rewards seem even worse as before . They prolly broke the range on that.

EF321 · February 16

Groterdan wrote: »

Not noticing any extra rewards from deconstructing. Refining rewards seem even worse as before . They prolly broke the range on that.

You get improved chances to get upgrade mats. I bought 500 purple rings and got 500 zircon out of them, no waste.

Rufusstan · February 16

The issues are not the surprise nature of the event, but the content within. Its almost the level of bait and switch, where at first glance it looks great, but the more deeply you look into it the less appealing it seems, to the point where it is almost pointless. By item:

1. Inspiration gain. For something meant to celebrate crafters it is worthless to the characters you are celebrating, as they all have maxed Crafting skills and have no need for inspiration at all.

2. Master writs. I think the news article has been changed (updated), as it originally read any master writ, but actually meant new writs as it reads now, which is far less exciting and means with the vagaries of the RNG and the short duration of the event could mean people get no benefit at all. Leading to..

3. The whole double idea or +100% rewards, which in practice just means two rolls, which can lead to far less than +100%.

4. The exclusion of surveys from the harvesting increase (especially as Plentiful Harvest already works on surveys).

5. All the transmute benefits removed because of the possibility of exploiting, rather than making changes (I know this was explained and how no better solution could be applied during the event, but it still happened.)

Added together, it means there is little you can get out of the event. Not enough to change how I play, but just carry on as if it wasn't happening.

Araneae6537 · February 16

tindomiel4 wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I think surprise events are awesome and fun! In the case of this event, even if you just reconned some gear, did a bunch of writs, or whatever, you had chosen to do that anyway — this is still a bonus! You don’t have to strategize and maximize everything but take advantage of when good fortune comes your way and most of all, have fun!

Respectfully, I admire your cheerful attitude, but ESO is not a gift. It is a product that many of us spend money, and all of us spend time, on. The producers of this game have shown an increasing tendency to ignore (or misinterpret) feedback, pad the game with grind and microtransactions, punish players for doing things that devs put in the game, and otherwise degrade the player experience and disrespect the player base. All of the complaints in this official discussion thread reflect the frustration too many of us feel about ZOS’ words and actions. It’s increasingly difficult to believe that they want to do better (or even that they can). We don’t have to be happy when they throw us scraps. They should be concerned about whether we want to continue giving them money.

Araneae6537 wrote: »

But whatever happened to the reconstruct at half cost? I can’t find a notice that this was disabled, much less why, or did it never work?

(P.S., the notice that it was altered is, as of writing, only in forum threads like this one, which is a prime example of the communication problems. People are not angry for no reason.)

(P.S.S., the event would have been more of a surprise if they hadn’t mentioned it in the daily login rewards announcement, which makes this mess even more confusing.)

I agree with all of this, and speak out about what I think should be changed and changes that I think are bad (such as the horrid bugged Grim Focus permaglow) and last year I even unsubbed for the first time since I started playing because I was that unhappy not only with some major changes but what communication there was, made it worse.

All that said, I also want to comment on things I like, including surprise mini events, and I don’t see how that would be something to legitimately be upset about. Although I am truly frustrated and baffled that ZOS did not consider how some players would use the recon discount to generate free transmutes and potent nirn and so announced a perk that they had to role back almost immediately. I had gotten excited about being able to better gear several of my characters.

EhlarkAdsalor · February 16

Has anyone else had Writ vouchers randomly be collected/added while grabbing resources during this event? I haven't had many but I was not expecting that, bit confused on it.

SithDi · February 16

The loading in splash screen page says 'New Event - Enjoy XP and Resource Bonuses during the Crafter's Celebration'

Is there bonus XP or not?

Destai · February 16

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

Would have been nice if ZOS was professional enough to announce this a few days before it began, instead of after.

We noted this elsewhere but this was meant to be a surprise event. So we did not plan on announcing this in advance. We planned on having the article published when the event went live, but we then had some event issues that changed up the timing. We understand the rollout has been confusing and are working to address this in the future.

So why are surprise events even a thing then? It's pretty clear advanced notice is required, especially if most of the players are professional adults. You can say you understand the frustration, but seeing surprise events with issues, doesn't make me feel like that perspective's even being considered. Feels like a vicious cycle here, because this points keeps coming up. When you say you're "working to address this in the future", does that mean ZOS will be prepared to provide advanced notice on every event? Cuz that's what's being asked for.

I hope surprise events continue to be a thing! The ticket events are announced in advance, usually. Why must everything be??? Some of is actually like pleasant surprises so having a mix of announced and surprise events seems ideal to me.

Were this something with smaller scope out-the-gate, like double XP or something, then I wouldn't bat an eye.

When an event is focused on major activities that normally require a lot of gold and grind to get, then advanced notice is nice. Getting transmutes stones and gearing takes a while; getting master writs takes a while too, even with alts. Crafting is a major activity that requires a lot of work. Any event around it should be treated carefully and with notice.

On top of that, this is the 2nd event this year, and it's February, with some big issues. The scope was pretty large, needed more testing, and communication. The rolled back feature list we have now is more appropriate for a surprise event, but now they have to do deal with the fallout of changing something once it was delivered.

I'm incredibly disappointed that writs only double their vouchers if they're acquired this weekend. People hoard them, so we can get the crafting tables for guild halls. 77 sets. That's my goal for the year. If not longer. That's something I spent $400 over the holiday to support getting a guildhall. Seeing the things I've worked towards not get the surprise bonus they sprung on us, feels pretty insulting.

And lastly, I've been pretty clear that I appreciate the gesture of a surprise event. Getting crafting bonuses for a weekend is much appreciated.