Official Discussion Thread, "Make the Most Out of Making Things During the Crafter’s Celebration"

WhiteCoatSyndrome · February 15

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

xosaara137ox wrote: »

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin!

Can we get clarification on this:
+100% Writ Vouchers earned from Master Writs created during the event

Does this mean the voucher buff is only applied to new writs DURING the event window? Or can you save the new master writs for after the event and still get double vouchers?

If the writ was obtained during the celebration window, saving them for after should keep the bonus amount. So you can cash them in after and get the bonus still.

Are you supposed to get the bonus when you cash them in? Because I didn't.

New writ earned today, listed at 55 vouchers. Got 55 vouchers.

The voucher rewards for the new writs that drop during the event already have the bonus applied, so that 55 was the correct amount.

Then it's not double!

Given how well everything else has functioned so far now I’m wondering if that’s broken too.

virtus753 · February 15

@ZOS_Kevin

As with the Guilds and Glory event, this statement is incorrect: "(this does not include fishing or creature drops such as leather)"

I keep getting Rubedo Hide Scraps x3 off of single mobs (mudcrabs, durzogs) without Plentiful Harvest. That's impossible without the event increasing that resource. I am also getting it in x1 and x2 at much higher rates than outside of events, which is consistent with the event applying a bonus.

ZOS_Kevin · February 15

Logos wrote: »

Is there going to be an updated description for the event? I, like others, went to reconstruct some gear for half transmutes for it to not work and then had to come here to find out why.

Unfortunately no. Those in-game event descriptions are made in advance and cannot be changed this late without downtime. It's unfortunately a side effect of having a late change to the event.

thejadefalcon · February 15

What a truly stagnant event. I'd ask if you want feedback, but it's all going to be the same as the Zenithar event that you ignored completely, so is there even a point? On the off chance that feedback is actually useful any more (my experience on both live and PTS the last few years casts serious doubt on that, but here's hoping), for crowing about making events for crafters, you've managed to make Zenithar's from a worthwhile use of our time into something completely pointless within the space of a single event and you've borked this one to the point it is a complete non-starter and I wonder how many people are getting banned simply because they didn't pay attention to how many transmute crystals they had. Remember how the motto used to be "play how you want"? Seems when the crafters decide to maximise returns, that's when you need to limit it.

While I'm aware it's an outlier, I have about 3,000 master writs sitting around doing nothing because I'm waiting for an Explorer's Celebration (remember those?) to mildly offset the cost of doing them. When I saw this pop up today, it was the most excitement I've felt for ESO in months (finally, something that benefits me!), only for the rug to be pulled out from under my feet within minutes. I had no expectations and you still managed to miss them.

Edit: Removed one point because I'm tired and misread the article. But at least I know how transmutation crystals work, unlike any of the devs, it seems. Honestly, is this even played any more? By any of you?

tincanman · February 15

event blurb wrote:

...+100% Writ Vouchers earned from Master Writs created during the event...

This is verified as broken, too:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8046688#Comment_8046688
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8046753#Comment_8046753

edit/update: it seems some are pre-doubled before handing in and others perhaps not, judging from friend/guildie comments; had someone tell me they were mailed a bunch in game and the enchant and alchemy ones seem to be ok (i.e. 4 vouchers instead of 2 shown on the master writ etc).

tsaescishoeshiner · February 15

This is a nice surprise event! I'm looking forward to leveling Alchemy on some chars for the potion bonus, and some extra gathering.

Overall I think the bonuses seem well-designed to avoid creating a reward structure for hoarding. Like, if this event gave double writ vouchers for pre-existing writs, players would be incentivized to hoard them in case the event happens again. So this is good for inventory management.

It would be cool if intricates items dropped as green or blue (instead of white) during the event for the new crafters out there. Always something exciting about seeing rarer colors. : p

The only thing I would add would be a nice community reward if enough crafting gets done. As in, if we complete enough new Sealed Master Writs or harvest enough resources, everyone gets some gold tempers or the mini-event lasts an extra day or something.

I_killed_Vivec · February 15

virtus753 wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

xosaara137ox wrote: »

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin!

Can we get clarification on this:
+100% Writ Vouchers earned from Master Writs created during the event

Does this mean the voucher buff is only applied to new writs DURING the event window? Or can you save the new master writs for after the event and still get double vouchers?

If the writ was obtained during the celebration window, saving them for after should keep the bonus amount. So you can cash them in after and get the bonus still.

Are you supposed to get the bonus when you cash them in? Because I didn't.

New writ earned today, listed at 55 vouchers. Got 55 vouchers.

The voucher rewards for the new writs that drop during the event already have the bonus applied, so that 55 was the correct amount.

Then it's not double!

There’s only one way it would make sense to be doubled, and it’s if there is a secret 0.1-0.9 attached to values within the game, and if there is, why are they there?

ZOS uses the term "doubled" for extra rolls as well, like with Plentiful Harvest.

When you have PH slotted, you can get 7x of a mat from a single blacksmithing/clothing/jewelrycrafting/woodworking node. It isn't because you drew 3.5 and it doubled. It's because you drew 3 on one roll and 4 on the other.

It's possible the game is rolling twice and adding the values together to get an odd number for the writ voucher value.

That's true for drops where you don't get double your dip, you get to dip twice.

But for master writs they aren't even saying "double", they are saying +100%.

Tyrant_Tim · February 15

I feel as though the word additional would make a bit more sense than doubled given that scenario.

I’ve never known an x to be a + when solving equations, or doing simple math.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · February 15

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Overall I think the bonuses seem well-designed to avoid creating a reward structure for hoarding. Like, if this event gave double writ vouchers for pre-existing writs, players would be incentivized to hoard them in case the event happens again. So this is good for inventory management.

We’ve already got a hoarding incentive though, in the form of double XP events. As it is I’m mostly being asked to do Crafting Writs on all my characters which I usually avoid because it’s boring and tedious, so I can hoard the Master Writs for a later event.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

It would be cool if intricates items dropped as green or blue (instead of white) during the event for the new crafters out there.

That would have been cool, yes.

virtus753 · February 15

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

xosaara137ox wrote: »

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin!

Can we get clarification on this:
+100% Writ Vouchers earned from Master Writs created during the event

Does this mean the voucher buff is only applied to new writs DURING the event window? Or can you save the new master writs for after the event and still get double vouchers?

If the writ was obtained during the celebration window, saving them for after should keep the bonus amount. So you can cash them in after and get the bonus still.

Are you supposed to get the bonus when you cash them in? Because I didn't.

New writ earned today, listed at 55 vouchers. Got 55 vouchers.

The voucher rewards for the new writs that drop during the event already have the bonus applied, so that 55 was the correct amount.

Then it's not double!

There’s only one way it would make sense to be doubled, and it’s if there is a secret 0.1-0.9 attached to values within the game, and if there is, why are they there?

ZOS uses the term "doubled" for extra rolls as well, like with Plentiful Harvest.

When you have PH slotted, you can get 7x of a mat from a single blacksmithing/clothing/jewelrycrafting/woodworking node. It isn't because you drew 3.5 and it doubled. It's because you drew 3 on one roll and 4 on the other.

It's possible the game is rolling twice and adding the values together to get an odd number for the writ voucher value.

That's true for drops where you don't get double your dip, you get to dip twice.

But for master writs they aren't even saying "double", they are saying +100%.

Which is equivalent to the term "double" for master writ voucher values, since there's no other way to increase them. It seems that that the intention to "double"/"+100%" got implemented as a double roll rather than double yield, just like with PH and event resource bonuses.

ZOS implicitly acknowledged that saying "double" for resource gains was not correct when they stopped saying that for event bonuses and started using "increased resources" instead. They have not yet changed it for Plentiful Harvest, even though it works the same way (i.e. double pull, not "double the yield") in most cases. The language is not correct for that CP star, nor is it apparently correct for this event bonus either.

RandomKodiak · February 15

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Need to change the website it still is advertising the event same as the in game a lot of people will not read forums first.

NeuroticPixels · February 15

From article:
“The Crafter’s Celebration starts now and runs for this weekend only”
And then…
“The Crafter’s Celebration runs until Tuesday, February 20 at 10AM EST.”

🤔

Also, is “+100% Inspiration gain to all crafting skill lines” still working? Does it work with deconstructing things? I have 2 characters that need their professions maxed.

wolfie1.0. · February 15

i feel that at least 24 hours prior notice for surprise events is a good time frame. that give us at least the ability to understand said event, especially new ones, and based on the feedback, the hotfix, and other questions about it.

for the longer ticketed events 7-10 days notice is preferred, if not longer.

i do like such things, and appreciate it. but i just wanted to provide some feedback on this thread for future reference.

RandomKodiak · February 15

Thanks for the website change. Busy telling all my guilds still but that helps some

FlopsyPrince · February 15

When is "the weekend" on NA and EU?

That is a bit vague. Does it start and end at the same GMT time for both? Same for PS5 as PC?

Sarannah · February 15

Nice event, thank you very much!

Something I would like to see in the future during this event: Grant one 1-day research scroll per maximum level crafting daily per craft per day per account. To help with crafting research.

ZOS_Kevin · February 15

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

When is "the weekend" on NA and EU?

That is a bit vague. Does it start and end at the same GMT time for both? Same for PS5 as PC?

Yes, the event is live now on all platforms. It ends the same time at 3pm GMT on all platforms as well on Feb. 20. All listed in the article.

BetweenMidgets · February 15

Destai wrote: »

So why are surprise events even a thing then? It's pretty clear advanced notice is required, especially if most of the players are professional adults. You can say you understand the frustration, but seeing surprise events with issues, doesn't make me feel like that perspective's even being considered. Feels like a vicious cycle here, because this points keeps coming up. When you say you're "working to address this in the future", does that mean ZOS will be prepared to provide advanced notice on every event? Cuz that's what's being asked for.

I could not agree more. Well said.

SkaiFaith · February 15

Koridak wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

xosaara137ox wrote: »

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin!

Can we get clarification on this:
+100% Writ Vouchers earned from Master Writs created during the event

Does this mean the voucher buff is only applied to new writs DURING the event window? Or can you save the new master writs for after the event and still get double vouchers?

If the writ was obtained during the celebration window, saving them for after should keep the bonus amount. So you can cash them in after and get the bonus still.

Quite honestly, it was a cool idea and hopefully you all figure out a way to make it work. Initial roll out was poorly designed and poorly worded in the announcement. I do really hope it gets ironed out and becomes a staple random event thrown in.

I think originally it was meant to have 12 Transmutes Crystals as reconstruction cost, giving you back the same 12 at deconstruction.
If they'll fix this for future iterations of the event, then I think I'm willing to wait for this event to return to make new builds for all my Alts.
I just hope it will come back, and sooner rather than later, because it would feel bad to wait forever in hope for this and never see it again. As you said, it was a cool idea.

Reginald_leBlem · February 15

Overall the event is disappointing.

Feedback for future:

1) Give all writs done during the event a +15% voucher gain, to encourage people to clean out the ones they have been letting pile up

2) Let all reconstructing cost less, with a floor of 20 crystals. If people really want to wast time and energy reconstructing and deconning so they can store an extra 5 crystals just let them. It's not that big of a deal and it will encourage people to play the game, which is the whole point, right?

3) LET SURVEYS HAVE DOUBLE DROPS. Please, I am begging you.

4) Run the event on PTS first and make sure you aren't missing something huge and obvious that your players will find 2 seconds after reading the announcement.

5) Make all crafting cost less, and give crafting writs, both daily and master, a nice XP and gold boost

ZOS_Kevin · February 15

Destai wrote: »

So why are surprise events even a thing then? It's pretty clear advanced notice is required, especially if most of the players are professional adults. You can say you understand the frustration, but seeing surprise events with issues, doesn't make me feel like that perspective's even being considered. Feels like a vicious cycle here, because this points keeps coming up. When you say you're "working to address this in the future", does that mean ZOS will be prepared to provide advanced notice on every event? Cuz that's what's being asked for.

The goal is to provide a fun bonus event and engage in a different way. We often here about how events are predictable. These types of events are meant to help throw some fun variety into the mix.

When saying "working to address this in the future" we mean take your feedback along with everyone else feedback, learn what worked and what didn't and try a different approach next time. We have a wide audience that likes surprises, just like we have a group that would like us to list every date for every event coming in the future. We are trying to address different groups here and it is a balancing act.

Again, not saying this was executed in the best way, but there are more things at play then only appealing to a working professional (which I personally understand as someone who likes having a schedule as a working adult). We'll continue to take feedback here and get it to the powers that be to discuss how we can improve here.

Reginald_leBlem · February 15

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

So why are surprise events even a thing then? It's pretty clear advanced notice is required, especially if most of the players are professional adults. You can say you understand the frustration, but seeing surprise events with issues, doesn't make me feel like that perspective's even being considered. Feels like a vicious cycle here, because this points keeps coming up. When you say you're "working to address this in the future", does that mean ZOS will be prepared to provide advanced notice on every event? Cuz that's what's being asked for.

The goal is to provide a fun bonus event and engage in a different way. We often here about how events are predictable. These types of events are meant to help throw some fun variety into the mix.

When saying "working to address this in the future" we mean take your feedback along with everyone else feedback, learn what worked and what didn't and try a different approach next time. We have a wide audience that likes surprises, just like we have a group that would like us to list every date for every event coming in the future. We are trying to address different groups here and it is a balancing act.

Again, not saying this was executed in the best way, but there are more things at play then only appealing to a working professional (which I personally understand as someone who likes having a schedule as a working adult). We'll continue to take feedback here and get it to the powers that be to discuss how we can improve here.

I don't hate suprise events, but I'm not sure THIS event (or the original event rather) is a great choice for one.

There was a lot of annoyance from people (like me) who just the orevious day had spent almost all transmutes creating gear. Knowing in advance that event was coming would be nice-- I could have saved some crystals.
Of course, as it is now the event is incredibly lackluster and it doesn't matter if it's a suprise or not-- by far the biggest issue with THIS event is its abysmal rollout.
Had the event gone live as it is now, with CLEAR COMMUNICATION on exactly what it does, I don't think anyone would be complaining it's a suprise.

TheMajority · February 15

The goal is to provide a fun bonus event and engage in a different way. We often here about how events are predictable. These types of events are meant to help throw some fun variety into the mix.

When people say events are predictable, I don't think they mean that they want surprise events.

I think they mean that most events follow the same formula over and over- doing daily quests repeatedly, for example, is what most events consist of, therefore it is predictable. So when zos says "we're going to have an event" people go "oh, we're grinding dalies again."

They're saying the content of the event is predictable, not the date and time of its occurrence.

Although it is cool to have some surprise events, events where people would like some heads up because they give a reduced cost to the use of materials aren't good surprises. People want to know that kind of stuff in advance so they can benefit.

The explorers event is a good surprise event because it doesn't cause a player to "lose out" on materials if they already created something previously. XP and gathering boosts are great surprises that don't cause you to need to rush for materials to even participate.

Don't get me wrong I think it would be cool if you bring this event back, just a heads up and fixes to its better features would be nice.

UrQuan · February 15

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

So why are surprise events even a thing then? It's pretty clear advanced notice is required, especially if most of the players are professional adults. You can say you understand the frustration, but seeing surprise events with issues, doesn't make me feel like that perspective's even being considered. Feels like a vicious cycle here, because this points keeps coming up. When you say you're "working to address this in the future", does that mean ZOS will be prepared to provide advanced notice on every event? Cuz that's what's being asked for.

The goal is to provide a fun bonus event and engage in a different way. We often here about how events are predictable. These types of events are meant to help throw some fun variety into the mix.

When saying "working to address this in the future" we mean take your feedback along with everyone else feedback, learn what worked and what didn't and try a different approach next time. We have a wide audience that likes surprises, just like we have a group that would like us to list every date for every event coming in the future. We are trying to address different groups here and it is a balancing act.

Again, not saying this was executed in the best way, but there are more things at play then only appealing to a working professional (which I personally understand as someone who likes having a schedule as a working adult). We'll continue to take feedback here and get it to the powers that be to discuss how we can improve here.

For the record, while I prefer to have events announced in advance, I'm also totally fine with surprise mini events. My frustration with this particular one comes from the fact that everything I was initially excited about for it turned out to not be exactly as advertised, and in the end nothing I care about at all. Initial excitement followed by a letdown. The biggest letdown for me is taking away the half price reconstruction. I understand it was removed to avoid an exploit with reconstructing followed by deconning to gain extra transmutes, but it really feels like that's something that should have been anticipated and planned for.

Tannus15 · February 15

how could you miss the reconstruction issue?

like, the second i read the event info i was like "how are they managing decon of items? is it still 25 mutes? that seems like something that can be exploited"

it's so obvious. so, blindingly, insanely obvious. how was it missed?

Reginald_leBlem · February 15

Tannus15 wrote: »

how could you miss the reconstruction issue?

like, the second i read the event info i was like "how are they managing decon of items? is it still 25 mutes? that seems like something that can be exploited"

it's so obvious. so, blindingly, insanely obvious. how was it missed?

Right??? I thought it HAD to be intentional, it was too obvious an oversight.

HushAzrael · February 15

When I logged on, the thing I was ABSOLUTELY the most excited about was being able to reconstruct some items to optimize some pvp builds I have been working on. I’ve been having to grind and scrimp and still don’t have enough crystals for all the stuff I’ve been trying to do. Ok— I get some people ruined this for us right out of the gate, but yanking it post event launch has really hacked me off. Like… I honestly do not know when I have been more angry about this game.

I like the half price transmutes, but when you’re not expecting it and not planning for it, you probably don’t have a pile of gear waiting to be transmuted. I would have, had I known even a few days ago!!! Which makes me even angrier!! I was flush with gold but lacking crystals so badly that I bought piles of bad traited gear to “buy down” the reconstruction costs— I could have save so much time, gold, and effort!

Next time, just double or triple the crystal drops. Save everyone a ton of headaches. People that don’t need them will pass, the people that do will find a place to stash them.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · February 15

NeuroticPixels wrote: »

From article:
“The Crafter’s Celebration starts now and runs for this weekend only”
And then…
“The Crafter’s Celebration runs until Tuesday, February 20 at 10AM EST.”

🤔

Also, is “+100% Inspiration gain to all crafting skill lines” still working? Does it work with deconstructing things? I have 2 characters that need their professions maxed.

Monday is technically a holiday in the US. (President’s Day.) So it’s potentially a long weekend for some people.

virtus753 · February 15

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

3) LET SURVEYS HAVE DOUBLE DROPS. Please, I am begging you.

Surveys can already get double drops with Plentiful Harvest. The event bonus stacks multiplicatively with PH where both apply, so this would result in some very high numbers (80+ raw base mats per node, for example). It might be why the event bonus doesn’t apply here.

Destai · February 15

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

So why are surprise events even a thing then? It's pretty clear advanced notice is required, especially if most of the players are professional adults. You can say you understand the frustration, but seeing surprise events with issues, doesn't make me feel like that perspective's even being considered. Feels like a vicious cycle here, because this points keeps coming up. When you say you're "working to address this in the future", does that mean ZOS will be prepared to provide advanced notice on every event? Cuz that's what's being asked for.

The goal is to provide a fun bonus event and engage in a different way. We often here about how events are predictable. These types of events are meant to help throw some fun variety into the mix.

When saying "working to address this in the future" we mean take your feedback along with everyone else feedback, learn what worked and what didn't and try a different approach next time. We have a wide audience that likes surprises, just like we have a group that would like us to list every date for every event coming in the future. We are trying to address different groups here and it is a balancing act.

Again, not saying this was executed in the best way, but there are more things at play then only appealing to a working professional (which I personally understand as someone who likes having a schedule as a working adult). We'll continue to take feedback here and get it to the powers that be to discuss how we can improve here.

Appreciate your statement, but frankly it makes me even more worried. I've long been concerned that when people say things, ZOS is interpreting our feedback differently than it was intended. Your statement "We often here about how events are predictable" confirms there's a disconnect.

When people say events are predictable, I think they're saying how formulaic the events can be. I could be totally wrong, so if there's threads supporting the "we want surprises" crowd, by all means share them. A lot of the feedback I've seen in threads is mostly focused on the rewards or overall experience.

Criticisms like:
1. Style pages not dropping often enough. (Every event since High Isle)
2. The mundanity of running daily quests during events. (Most Zone events)
3. Lack of double XP/AP during event. (Everything but NLF and MYM)
4. Surveys not counting to event bonuses. (Most events)
5. Event ticket caps being too low. (Every event)
6. Losing event tickets because of the recent change made to acquisition. (Every event)
7. Maintenance outages affecting participation. (Every event)
8. Removing master writ spamming. (zeal of zenithar, this event)
9. Events happen too often. (Every event)
10. Event durations unexpectedly shortened. (New Life Festival)

Are those criticisms getting interpreted as "we want surprise events"?

Regardless, I would've hoped those points would be addressed directly before coming up with a surprise event. Especially with how consistent they've been. A lot of the nudges and incentives are starting to feel like micromanagement, and that overshadows any warmth from a gesture like a surprise event.

On top of that, you've described situations where event announcements can have last minute delays, so clearly, there's some deeper problems. If your event platform can't reliably pivot with new ideas - which be real with yourselves here, it's really having some issues - then event surprises aren't the way to go. At least until there's more confidence in the system. If this had been successfully vetted through PTS, then having it as a surprise would be fine.

I get you guys have all sorts of balancing acts, and my heart goes out to you. It's a lot of competing sentiments to accommodate. But like there's a lot of clear feedback that doesn't get implemented for whatever reason. Stuff like the list above. Hope you guys can figure this out going forward. If anything I hope "the powers that be" are actually reading these threads so they can see our feedback directly. I think it'd behoove you as a CM to cap off official threads with some summary of you think the feedback is. That way, people can clarify if needed.