StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »
To put it another way I think to get a full understanding you need to have a test environment where you can gather the most data and that's going to be cyro. After that I'd rank IC, then bgs as your next data sources but in no particular order since both can have much more variation in what a particular player sees.
There have been many people on PC who came here to tell you it's broken even in Cyrodiil. What more "data" do you want lol
Bushido2513 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »
To put it another way I think to get a full understanding you need to have a test environment where you can gather the most data and that's going to be cyro. After that I'd rank IC, then bgs as your next data sources but in no particular order since both can have much more variation in what a particular player sees.
There have been many people on PC who came here to tell you it's broken even in Cyrodiil. What more "data" do you want lol
No joke, a video would say more. It's easy enough to say how powerful something feels but can we see a sorc face tank a 12 man, escape a dc negate with bomb, and kill multiple high level non sorcs in an xv1 ?
If it's doing some of all of those I'd say it's more so bronen
StaticWave wrote: »All iterations of Sorc will be S tier next patch. I’m not looking forward to fighting Sorcs that can tank like a NB/DK while having unmatched mobility, and I’m a sorc main.
Bushido2513 wrote: »HowlKimchi wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »HowlKimchi wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »well, it's not that sorc is completely op. the class just joins the tankiness of some other classes. whether that's good or bad can be decided by others, the fact that there was a buff is perfectly ok.
Sorc is the tankiest spec right now, there’s no contest. It’s also the only spec that can almost negate a Jerall build.
Giving it 10% max mag was more than enough to elevate it to S tier. Giving it a burst heal under a shield elevated it to OP status. Here is a screenshot of a sorc tanking 4k DPS without Vigor:
There are also numerous complaints about Sorc tanking whole groups of people in Cyro too.
What’s absurd is people like me who tested the shield on PTS opposed the change, but so many sorc mains wanted it to go thru when they didn’t even participate in the PTS lol… What is the point then? You don’t need to see actual data to know this shield change would be broken. It defeats the whole concept of tradeoff and puts Sorc in the same boat as NB being stealthy and having amazing heals/tankiness 🤣🤣
tanking 4k dps doesn't seem particularly impressive to me, all the other classes can do that too, but maybe I'm just not understanding you correctly.
I should also mention that I play no procc, no cp. The game may be a little more balanced, although sorc has always benefited well from a pure stat build. but at least you can't take as much as in the cp campaign.
Tanking 4k DPS without Vigor, which was mandatory on Sorc, is not impressive? Ok…
do we have a maths problem here? 4 k dps is 20k damage in 5 seconds, that was perfectly possible before with a shield build and every other class with a burst heal can do that without any problems
You do realize that it was a 5 minute fight? 4k dps in a 5 min duel, and a build made for damage was able to sustain receiving that kind of dps without vigor. Do you understand how ridiculous that is?
The fact that sorcs can now facetank that kind of damage on a damage build, while still having the mobility to pick and choose fights makes them factually overpowered and the 1vX class this patch.
So I've come across this kind of view before and it appears you're looking at the how and not the outcome. Yes there is something to be said for the how because sometimes when something is op you start to realize that it allows for too much freedom.
I can see both sides of this but for me I mostly focus on the outcome and the overall. What you're describing is a very tanky player character that can dish out damage with high mobility. What I will say is that one could liken this to nb in that it has high damage but we're just switching out mobility to a minor degree (nb has built in speed buffs and shade).
I've fought all kinds of player characters regardless of class that have damage, speed, high defense. I remember not too long ago fighting a procanist that could keep up with me (my sorc is built with some speed) and deal damage to me in a way which made me have to keep moving away (I'm fairly tanky) and who wasn't taking much damage from me.
There's lots of things that go into this but my point is that to me if that same player jumps on a sorc they would be doing something similar. Sure they have mobility but generally speaking I don't have a problem catching people and I also don't have a problem if they run from me and I choose to withdraw.
What I'm saying is that so far that I've seen, nobody has described a situation that can't in a similar way already happen in the game.
People are viewing it like sorc is some new player when it's going to be the same player base just on a sorc but if it wasn't a sorc it would be a nb, arcanist, dk, warden, all of which can be played in op ways depending on build and the player.
So for me I really don't care which op class or build someone hops on, I'll just deal with it in one way or another. Can't beat everyone, can't catch everyone, can't kill everyone. It's just a game, have fun and move on.
That's a long way of saying you don't care about balance.
I have a lot I want to say but I dont wanna write an essay so ill just bullet some points.
- The main thing is player skill is something that shouldn't be a factor when balancing. A skilled player using a magcro will *** on a crappy player using a nightblade, but we all know necros are waaaay underpowered right now.
- The meta proc arcanist build you use in your example is actually a poor example because it was the OP build last patch and was nerfed (still needs some nerfs imo)
- people have been describing situations that have never been possible in the game before, and that's tanking 7k dps without vigor on a full damage build, i dont know why you keep downplaying that.
Highlighting this:I kinda dont see the point of talking about class balance with you if that's how you view things. You are correct that people will always play the meta fotm builds, and yeah those buillds will surely be effective, but I dont want the fotm build to be leaps and bounds ahead of the other builds which the max mag hardened ward sorc currently is right now. OP as a term has been mad overused these days. It means overpowered which is different from effective/strong. overpowered means it is too strong.People are viewing it like sorc is some new player when it's going to be the same player base just on a sorc but if it wasn't a sorc it would be a nb, arcanist, dk, warden, all of which can be played in op ways depending on build and the player.
It's not that I don't care about balance. It's that ZOS doesn't care about balance. So if they aren't worried about it then yes I'll give my opinion but it's going to come from the view that I just tend to understand who I'm dealing with.
In that context I don't see the sky as falling and I find it interesting that anyone thinks this is interesting as if it's an unusual pattern for the game is all.
Also yes I don't really care much about tanking DPS with vigor or without vigor because the game simply is not balanced around a 1v1. Why use a metric that ZOS clearly doesn't care about?
StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »
To put it another way I think to get a full understanding you need to have a test environment where you can gather the most data and that's going to be cyro. After that I'd rank IC, then bgs as your next data sources but in no particular order since both can have much more variation in what a particular player sees.
There have been many people on PC who came here to tell you it's broken even in Cyrodiil. What more "data" do you want lol
No joke, a video would say more. It's easy enough to say how powerful something feels but can we see a sorc face tank a 12 man, escape a dc negate with bomb, and kill multiple high level non sorcs in an xv1 ?
If it's doing some of all of those I'd say it's more so bronen
No class can face tank a 12 man while in full damage gear. I'm sorry but you're exaggerating. Maybe a 12 man of complete newbies who only light attack can be possible, and maybe that meme max HP arcanist build using the shield ult can, but that ain't a full damage build either.
Trust, you'll see those sorc videos tanking multiple people coming out soon. Pretty much every good player on PC right now agree Sorc is overperforming and unkillable. I don't think I want to explain this to you further cause you seem to be refusing to accept the fact until you get your hands on the update yourself lol.
HowlKimchi wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »HowlKimchi wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »HowlKimchi wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »well, it's not that sorc is completely op. the class just joins the tankiness of some other classes. whether that's good or bad can be decided by others, the fact that there was a buff is perfectly ok.
Sorc is the tankiest spec right now, there’s no contest. It’s also the only spec that can almost negate a Jerall build.
Giving it 10% max mag was more than enough to elevate it to S tier. Giving it a burst heal under a shield elevated it to OP status. Here is a screenshot of a sorc tanking 4k DPS without Vigor:
There are also numerous complaints about Sorc tanking whole groups of people in Cyro too.
What’s absurd is people like me who tested the shield on PTS opposed the change, but so many sorc mains wanted it to go thru when they didn’t even participate in the PTS lol… What is the point then? You don’t need to see actual data to know this shield change would be broken. It defeats the whole concept of tradeoff and puts Sorc in the same boat as NB being stealthy and having amazing heals/tankiness 🤣🤣
tanking 4k dps doesn't seem particularly impressive to me, all the other classes can do that too, but maybe I'm just not understanding you correctly.
I should also mention that I play no procc, no cp. The game may be a little more balanced, although sorc has always benefited well from a pure stat build. but at least you can't take as much as in the cp campaign.
Tanking 4k DPS without Vigor, which was mandatory on Sorc, is not impressive? Ok…
do we have a maths problem here? 4 k dps is 20k damage in 5 seconds, that was perfectly possible before with a shield build and every other class with a burst heal can do that without any problems
You do realize that it was a 5 minute fight? 4k dps in a 5 min duel, and a build made for damage was able to sustain receiving that kind of dps without vigor. Do you understand how ridiculous that is?
The fact that sorcs can now facetank that kind of damage on a damage build, while still having the mobility to pick and choose fights makes them factually overpowered and the 1vX class this patch.
So I've come across this kind of view before and it appears you're looking at the how and not the outcome. Yes there is something to be said for the how because sometimes when something is op you start to realize that it allows for too much freedom.
I can see both sides of this but for me I mostly focus on the outcome and the overall. What you're describing is a very tanky player character that can dish out damage with high mobility. What I will say is that one could liken this to nb in that it has high damage but we're just switching out mobility to a minor degree (nb has built in speed buffs and shade).
I've fought all kinds of player characters regardless of class that have damage, speed, high defense. I remember not too long ago fighting a procanist that could keep up with me (my sorc is built with some speed) and deal damage to me in a way which made me have to keep moving away (I'm fairly tanky) and who wasn't taking much damage from me.
There's lots of things that go into this but my point is that to me if that same player jumps on a sorc they would be doing something similar. Sure they have mobility but generally speaking I don't have a problem catching people and I also don't have a problem if they run from me and I choose to withdraw.
What I'm saying is that so far that I've seen, nobody has described a situation that can't in a similar way already happen in the game.
People are viewing it like sorc is some new player when it's going to be the same player base just on a sorc but if it wasn't a sorc it would be a nb, arcanist, dk, warden, all of which can be played in op ways depending on build and the player.
So for me I really don't care which op class or build someone hops on, I'll just deal with it in one way or another. Can't beat everyone, can't catch everyone, can't kill everyone. It's just a game, have fun and move on.
That's a long way of saying you don't care about balance.
I have a lot I want to say but I dont wanna write an essay so ill just bullet some points.
- The main thing is player skill is something that shouldn't be a factor when balancing. A skilled player using a magcro will *** on a crappy player using a nightblade, but we all know necros are waaaay underpowered right now.
- The meta proc arcanist build you use in your example is actually a poor example because it was the OP build last patch and was nerfed (still needs some nerfs imo)
- people have been describing situations that have never been possible in the game before, and that's tanking 7k dps without vigor on a full damage build, i dont know why you keep downplaying that.
Highlighting this:I kinda dont see the point of talking about class balance with you if that's how you view things. You are correct that people will always play the meta fotm builds, and yeah those buillds will surely be effective, but I dont want the fotm build to be leaps and bounds ahead of the other builds which the max mag hardened ward sorc currently is right now. OP as a term has been mad overused these days. It means overpowered which is different from effective/strong. overpowered means it is too strong.People are viewing it like sorc is some new player when it's going to be the same player base just on a sorc but if it wasn't a sorc it would be a nb, arcanist, dk, warden, all of which can be played in op ways depending on build and the player.
It's not that I don't care about balance. It's that ZOS doesn't care about balance. So if they aren't worried about it then yes I'll give my opinion but it's going to come from the view that I just tend to understand who I'm dealing with.
In that context I don't see the sky as falling and I find it interesting that anyone thinks this is interesting as if it's an unusual pattern for the game is all.
Also yes I don't really care much about tanking DPS with vigor or without vigor because the game simply is not balanced around a 1v1. Why use a metric that ZOS clearly doesn't care about?
I am also definitely gonna play the cards i am dealt with, and yes this isnt the first time that something grossly OP has been allowed by ZOS before (DK war flashbacks), but the spirit of this discussion is not "zos doesnt care, so talking about it doesnt matter." At least for me. I am talking about it because I dont like that it is OP and I believe it's bad for the game that the current hardened ward exists.
Anyway, based on your latest replies, you seem to somewhat agree that the current sorc is OP. You just don't care about it because you believe you are skilled enough to stalemate/overcome/avoid the offending build and it's just another "challenge" to face. I get it. I personally don't hop on the fotm build and I enjoy killing people who are just meta chasing. However, hardened ward is truly OP in its current form, and while I can handle it, I believe it's not healthy for the game and is why I'm personally advocating for a nerf.
My PvP perspective from the last week:
1vXing Other Sorcs has gotten a lot harder, used to be able to burst them down much quicker. The skill floor has definitely been raised with this change.
GvGing Other Sorcs seems mostly the same. They can't handle 2-3 people with LoS or running away. Same as most classes. This aspect of the skill floor seems intact since it involves positioning more than tankiness.
Xv1ing Other Sorcs, definitely is "harder" really depends who is attacking them with me (random or in Comms). When they have LoS they are extremely hard to kill (this is the same for most classes but Sorc previously was the easiest in my opinion because their defense scales poorly with multiple attackers)
My biggest harp is Sorc population has increased soooo much. There are so many Sorcs running around. And Sorcs are probably the deadliest ranged class which makes it feel like you can blow up with curse, frag mages, and wrath spam at any moment.
Shield change is Overtuned, no doubt. But it's not FAR off from being balanced.
xylena_lazarow wrote: »LET IT BAKE!
Forget Sorcs for a minute, someone actually said this without irony. What.
My comrade in Cyrodiil, there's nothing left to bake. The food is ash, and the kitchen is on fire.
LOOK MOM IM A 1VXER NOW!
Sure it can be fun to dump gasoline on the fire, until someone bigger and stronger throws you into the flames.
Meanwhile what is actually going on is NB Domination.
Stam Sorc is stronger than Mag, btw.
Bushido2513 wrote: »Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.
Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w
First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.
First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.
Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.
Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.
Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.
Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.
6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.
7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.
9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.
10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.
11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.
13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.
14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.
15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.
16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.
My PvP perspective from the last week:
1vXing Other Sorcs has gotten a lot harder, used to be able to burst them down much quicker. The skill floor has definitely been raised with this change.
GvGing Other Sorcs seems mostly the same. They can't handle 2-3 people with LoS or running away. Same as most classes. This aspect of the skill floor seems intact since it involves positioning more than tankiness.
Xv1ing Other Sorcs, definitely is "harder" really depends who is attacking them with me (random or in Comms). When they have LoS they are extremely hard to kill (this is the same for most classes but Sorc previously was the easiest in my opinion because their defense scales poorly with multiple attackers)
My biggest harp is Sorc population has increased soooo much. There are so many Sorcs running around. And Sorcs are probably the deadliest ranged class which makes it feel like you can blow up with curse, frag mages, and wrath spam at any moment.
Shield change is Overtuned, no doubt. But it's not FAR off from being balanced.
TechMaybeHic wrote: »Been doing some looking at the build editors, and I can't say I think what they did is totally bad but the high mag scaling is what makes it go too far. Numbers do not seem as bad otherwise
StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.
Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w
First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.
First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.
Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.
Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.
Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.
Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.
6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.
7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.
9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.
10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.
11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.
13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.
14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.
15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.
16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.
1) I was using Chudan/Essence/Rally with only 37k mag, definitely not broken by any means (if we don’t count the shield being strong itself)
2) I’ve been complaining about sorc since this patch dropped, to anyone. You can kinda see it on the forums too. He ain’t special enough nor was he being targetted, so not sure why he got personal.
3) I was annoyed at the shield spamming with heal thru my execute, which I’ve also demonstrated in my thread
Not to be rude, but Jensen rarely killed me or anyone in that clip last patch. It’s not that he is a bad player. He’s just not as good of a dueler as those in the video. 1 buff made him strong enough and he started dropping vids on people.
StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.
Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w
First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.
First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.
Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.
Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.
Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.
Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.
6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.
7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.
9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.
10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.
11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.
13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.
14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.
15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.
16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.
1) I was using Chudan/Essence/Rally with only 37k mag, definitely not broken by any means (if we don’t count the shield being strong itself)
2) I’ve been complaining about sorc since this patch dropped, to anyone. You can kinda see it on the forums too. He ain’t special enough nor was he being targetted, so not sure why he got personal.
3) I was annoyed at the shield spamming with heal thru my execute, which I’ve also demonstrated in my thread
Not to be rude, but Jensen rarely killed me or anyone in that clip last patch. It’s not that he is a bad player. He’s just not as good of a dueler as those in the video. 1 buff made him strong enough and he started dropping vids on people.
Bushido2513 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.
Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w
First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.
First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.
Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.
Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.
Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.
Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.
6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.
7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.
9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.
10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.
11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.
13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.
14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.
15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.
16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.
1) I was using Chudan/Essence/Rally with only 37k mag, definitely not broken by any means (if we don’t count the shield being strong itself)
2) I’ve been complaining about sorc since this patch dropped, to anyone. You can kinda see it on the forums too. He ain’t special enough nor was he being targetted, so not sure why he got personal.
3) I was annoyed at the shield spamming with heal thru my execute, which I’ve also demonstrated in my thread
Not to be rude, but Jensen rarely killed me or anyone in that clip last patch. It’s not that he is a bad player. He’s just not as good of a dueler as those in the video. 1 buff made him strong enough and he started dropping vids on people.
Part of what I appreciated about the video wasStaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.
Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w
First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.
First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.
Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.
Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.
Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.
Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.
6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.
7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.
9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.
10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.
11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.
13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.
14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.
15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.
16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.
1) I was using Chudan/Essence/Rally with only 37k mag, definitely not broken by any means (if we don’t count the shield being strong itself)
2) I’ve been complaining about sorc since this patch dropped, to anyone. You can kinda see it on the forums too. He ain’t special enough nor was he being targetted, so not sure why he got personal.
3) I was annoyed at the shield spamming with heal thru my execute, which I’ve also demonstrated in my thread
Not to be rude, but Jensen rarely killed me or anyone in that clip last patch. It’s not that he is a bad player. He’s just not as good of a dueler as those in the video. 1 buff made him strong enough and he started dropping vids on people.
Well I think there's some good points here. The word unkillable has been thrown around a lot here and you can see that it's not exactly the case. In the recount we can see that some deaths went back and forth with magsorc on magsorc and magsorc against other specs.
I feel like he was being straight up about how he was able to compete due to the buff and that he had a good number of wins and losses.
There were still stalemates, just not as much to the degree as some made it seem like we'd be getting.
I'm still looking at how this develops but I wanted to share and appreciate the context.
Bushido2513 wrote: »Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.
Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w
First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.
First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.
Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.
Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.
Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.
Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.
6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.
7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.
9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.
10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.
11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.
13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.
14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.
15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.
16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.
Just my view for Cyro - not duelling:StaticWave wrote: »1) Below average players will survive better against average players
2) Average players will survive better vs above average players
3) Above average players will survive better vs top tier players, and may have a chance of killing them (when they mess up)
4) Top tier players will never die
Just my view for Cyro - not duelling:StaticWave wrote: »1) Below average players will survive better against average players
2) Average players will survive better vs above average players
3) Above average players will survive better vs top tier players, and may have a chance of killing them (when they mess up)
4) Top tier players will never die
1) Isn't that a good thing, that "beginners" can survive better now on a sorc too and they don't have to play Cloak-NB or a tanky DK/Warden to survive longer then 3s?
2) I like that very much I can fight them longer and learn more and have more fun - before I still try to escape or die.
3) First part ok and it's like (#2) - second part maybe there is a the problem
4) Not true - but I know what you mean. But this is something which were almost always the case. Now "we" need maybe 6 ppl (from #2 and #3) to get a kill instead only 4-5 before.
Overall I see some problems with 3b) and that some of the tot tier players don't like that and now cry now "Sorc OP" like they cried before "DK OP" or "NB OP" or whatever the OP-class was.
So - I still accept that the changes are a bit to much - and I'm still fine if they change that heal to HoT or whatever - but at least for 90% of the player base in Cyro I don't see such a big problem like you see for toptier-duelling... (which I understand)
Bushido2513 wrote: »G
Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w
Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »Last night, I entered a BG with my max mag sorc with Crafty Alfiq, Wretched Vitality, Asylum Lightning staff, and Death Dealer’s. Pretty standard loadout, other than the staff, I’d say. I get up to about 53k Magicka, and I know that’s overkill but I wanted to try it out for a bit.
The result? I’ve literally never gotten more than 15 kills in a BG in the entire four years I’ve been playing ESO, but in this BG, I doubled that number on a magsorc with 31 kills. Hardened Ward made me damn near immortal. I only died when a NB hit me with a lucky gank twice.
Again, I’m an intermediate player. And I survived multiple 1vX situations with just Ward and Streak, only to come back and delete people.
The worst part? It isn’t even a finished build. None of the gear is gold. I’m not a vampire with Undeath. I don’t have the Bastion CP, nor do I have any defensive blue CP yet because I’m only at CP level 728. Hell, I don’t even have Major Resolve on this build. And I was shrugging off damage like Superman in a gunfight.
By the way, there was another Magsorc on my team who ended the match with 34 kills. We virtually carried the whole match.
I love Magsorc. It’s my favorite thing to play in ESO and I’m going to continue to play it. But I’m not blind. Hardened Ward absolutely needs some kind of adjustment.
StaticWave wrote: »
I can assure you, when a magsorc vs magsorc dies, it’s usually because of 2 things (which you may already know, but others might not)
1) Lower shield uptime
2) Lower defensive mechanics usage
It applies to magsorc vs other classes too. I’m not saying the change will make a complete newbie god tier. They’ll most likely still die within a minute. However, it will raise the floor enough to achieve this effect:
1) Below average players will survive better against average players
2) Average players will survive better vs above average players
3) Above average players will survive better vs top tier players, and may have a chance of killing them (when they mess up)
4) Top tier players will never die
The person making that video falls within the above average category. He has a much better chance of surviving now, and can kill top tier players. Of course, top tier players will kill him more frequently in a mirror match up, but it will be difficult for those who don’t play the same build.
It’s the same for last patch’s meta too. Meta builds bridged the gap so much you couldn’t be competitive unless you ran them.
Bushido2513 wrote: »Going to preface this by saying I was just doing a cursory look for new videos on eso pvp to see some open world sorc actions and responses. In any case while I don't think 1v1 balance is a relevant thing I did find a video that shed some light on just how sorc fights can go back and forth even with this new buff. Shout out to @StaticWave, didn't expect to see you at the 7 minute mark but I guess it makes sense given how much you share about dueling. In any case I'm adding the description here because I think it's a worthy read based on the topic.
Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w
First an foremost this is not a "clipped" video. This video is to highlight Magsorc in a light it hasn't been in for years.
First Fight is with @kpree . After Beating Kpree once, we dueled 2 more times and he beat me both times.
Second fight is with @ReactFaster . We dueled again and stalemated after 30 minutes.
Third Fight is with Carleta, not sure if DK is going to do anything to Mag Sorc This Patch.
Fourth Fight is with Desiral, Desiral after this duel we traded with each other about 8 more times. Desiral is running a glass cannon bowsorc and the duels go by very quickly. Desiral won most the duels we did together.
Fifth fight is with Pietrolax. After beating him twice, he was able to land a 500 meteor balorgh combo and get me in the third fight.
6th fight Katano, only fought once. Great player have traded duels over the years.
7th fight and 8th, is Nanncy and Gulmar. Nanncy beat me in a duel in ic, so i had to get some revenge. Runs a very strong no proc necro. Gulmar loses on his dk in this duel, but never loses on his warden.
9th fight is my man Crowley, we traded a few duels, he helped me prepare my update 41 build with alot of testing.
10th fight is with wildgopher, great player, but was on a stam sorc that he never plays. I think he said this was his first day playing the stam sorc, and he did crazy dmg.
11th and 12th, not much to say here. Zirtun and Trix duels.
13th KDMS dueled and I beat him twice, and he beat me twice.
14th with Carnido, not much to say here. We dueled twice, he won one, I won one.
15th Jc a great Sorc vs Sorc action.
16th, Static, well Static shows his personality in the video so just watch.
And yes, you should not expose people. I could exposed some streamers as well, running away avoiding me, call some friends and zerging me. But I don't think exposing is a good behavior to have.
Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »Last night, I entered a BG with my max mag sorc with Crafty Alfiq, Wretched Vitality, Asylum Lightning staff, and Death Dealer’s. Pretty standard loadout, other than the staff, I’d say. I get up to about 53k Magicka, and I know that’s overkill but I wanted to try it out for a bit.
The result? I’ve literally never gotten more than 15 kills in a BG in the entire four years I’ve been playing ESO, but in this BG, I doubled that number on a magsorc with 31 kills. Hardened Ward made me damn near immortal. I only died when a NB hit me with a lucky gank twice.
Again, I’m an intermediate player. And I survived multiple 1vX situations with just Ward and Streak, only to come back and delete people.
The worst part? It isn’t even a finished build. None of the gear is gold. I’m not a vampire with Undeath. I don’t have the Bastion CP, nor do I have any defensive blue CP yet because I’m only at CP level 728. Hell, I don’t even have Major Resolve on this build. And I was shrugging off damage like Superman in a gunfight.
By the way, there was another Magsorc on my team who ended the match with 34 kills. We virtually carried the whole match.
I love Magsorc. It’s my favorite thing to play in ESO and I’m going to continue to play it. But I’m not blind. Hardened Ward absolutely needs some kind of adjustment.
Bushido2513 wrote: »G
Seems like it can die in a 1v1 just depending on who's on the other end and it didn't end in a stalemate as much as it might have seemed it would.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvchvr-ON5w
Could not watch more then 30sec, could not stand all that bunny hopping.