Magicka Sorcerer PvP Domination!

Micah_Bayer · February 10

https://youtu.be/UocgNXxnLVg?si=ISkehLSsjc9Wgk8H

xylena_lazarow · February 10

VinnyGambini · February 10

I've been saying this many times - sorc IS S tier class, and doe's not need any buff. It has the best mobility - so he decides if we fight or not, and has the best dmg - YES, better than nightblade, nb has burst, but sorc has burst AND sustained dmg, and can play fully ranged.

Personally I have no idea [snip] is going on, S-tier classes keep getting buffed, D tier classes keep getting nerfed. It seems that ZOS purpose is disbalancing rather than balancing.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Micah_Bayer · February 10

VinnyGambini wrote: »

I've been saying this many times - sorc IS S tier class, and doe's not need any buff. It has the best mobility - so he decides if we fight or not, and has the best dmg - YES, better than nightblade, nb has burst, but sorc has burst AND sustained dmg, and can play fully ranged.

Personally I have no idea [snip] is going on, S-tier classes keep getting buffed, D tier classes keep getting nerfed. It seems that ZOS purpose is disbalancing rather than balancing.

To be fair! You have to sacrifice a lot to get that damage. Hence I don't use streak or have heal. I get what you're saying, though. Next patch fixes the heal issue.

[edited to remove quote]

VinnyGambini · February 10

What do you mean by "you have to sacrifice a lot"? Build is pure spell dmg and magicka. If I do full spell dmg + magicka or pen or crit on for example templar or necro, I'm nowhere near that dmg. Unbalanced. Unfair. Sad.

Micah_Bayer · February 10

VinnyGambini wrote: »

What do you mean by "you have to sacrifice a lot"? Build is pure spell dmg and magicka. If I do full spell dmg + magicka or pen or crit on for example templar or necro, I'm nowhere near that dmg. Unbalanced. Unfair. Sad.

You can't have mobility which is a sorcerer's best ability, nor have healing. You need inner light, bound aegis and the crit psijic skill. No room for lots of tools normal sorcerer's have. Also you can check out my magicka NB video on YouTube. It shows the exact same setup, but with more dmg and cloak!

notReclaimer · February 11

sorc is ass

Micah_Bayer · February 11

notReclaimer wrote: »

sorc is ass

❤️

VinnyGambini · February 12

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

What do you mean by "you have to sacrifice a lot"? Build is pure spell dmg and magicka. If I do full spell dmg + magicka or pen or crit on for example templar or necro, I'm nowhere near that dmg. Unbalanced. Unfair. Sad.

You can't have mobility which is a sorcerer's best ability, nor have healing. You need inner light, bound aegis and the crit psijic skill. No room for lots of tools normal sorcerer's have. Also you can check out my magicka NB video on YouTube. It shows the exact same setup, but with more dmg and cloak!

How about, templar, or necro?
My point was - sorc is S-tier, nb also S-tier, templar and necro D-tier.
Unbalanced, unfair , sad.

Urzigurumash · February 12

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

What do you mean by "you have to sacrifice a lot"? Build is pure spell dmg and magicka. If I do full spell dmg + magicka or pen or crit on for example templar or necro, I'm nowhere near that dmg. Unbalanced. Unfair. Sad.

You can't have mobility which is a sorcerer's best ability, nor have healing. You need inner light, bound aegis and the crit psijic skill. No room for lots of tools normal sorcerer's have. Also you can check out my magicka NB video on YouTube. It shows the exact same setup, but with more dmg and cloak!

How about, templar, or necro?
My point was - sorc is S-tier, nb also S-tier, templar and necro D-tier.
Unbalanced, unfair , sad.

I agree Sorc has the most ambiguous Tier position. Surely it is far above Necro or Plar. But have you ever seen so FEW mSorcs as you do nowadays? To me that is all the evidence we need to say - surely mSorc is not in the same Tier as NB, DK, and Warden.

Micah_Bayer · February 12

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

What do you mean by "you have to sacrifice a lot"? Build is pure spell dmg and magicka. If I do full spell dmg + magicka or pen or crit on for example templar or necro, I'm nowhere near that dmg. Unbalanced. Unfair. Sad.

You can't have mobility which is a sorcerer's best ability, nor have healing. You need inner light, bound aegis and the crit psijic skill. No room for lots of tools normal sorcerer's have. Also you can check out my magicka NB video on YouTube. It shows the exact same setup, but with more dmg and cloak!

How about, templar, or necro?
My point was - sorc is S-tier, nb also S-tier, templar and necro D-tier.
Unbalanced, unfair , sad.

I wouldn't say S tier. The changes coming will probably make it so, though.

Micah_Bayer · February 13

https://youtu.be/4i-nTPoI5P0?si=OwftWI2NYIVji1TQ

The build video for this.

Bushido2513 · February 14

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

https://youtu.be/4i-nTPoI5P0?si=OwftWI2NYIVji1TQ

The build video for this.

I appreciate you posting this. It's funny because I feel like this is one of those situations where the gameplay looks like fun but I doubt anyone will even try to run it. You really have to WANT to play this build but the results are indeed fun to watch!

Micah_Bayer · February 14

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

https://youtu.be/4i-nTPoI5P0?si=OwftWI2NYIVji1TQ

The build video for this.

I appreciate you posting this. It's funny because I feel like this is one of those situations where the gameplay looks like fun but I doubt anyone will even try to run it. You really have to WANT to play this build but the results are indeed fun to watch!

I appreciate you taking the time to watch it, and yes you are absolutely right. Always get messages on what I run, but never actually see people coming back and using it. It's fun, but most people want optimization vs all out niche setups like this.

Kartalin · February 14

Not gonna lie, getting a little nervous about fighting swaths of sorcs next update after watching these vids.

Micah_Bayer · February 14

Kartalin wrote: »

Not gonna lie, getting a little nervous about fighting swaths of sorcs next update after watching these vids.

If they tone the shield buff down before release, then we should be alright.

StaticWave · February 19

All iterations of Sorc will be S tier next patch. I’m not looking forward to fighting Sorcs that can tank like a NB/DK while having unmatched mobility, and I’m a sorc main.

VinnyGambini · February 20

StaticWave wrote: »

All iterations of Sorc will be S tier next patch. I’m not looking forward to fighting Sorcs that can tank like a NB/DK while having unmatched mobility, and I’m a sorc main.

Agree

Bushido2513 · February 20

StaticWave wrote: »

All iterations of Sorc will be S tier next patch. I’m not looking forward to fighting Sorcs that can tank like a NB/DK while having unmatched mobility, and I’m a sorc main.

There will be more sorcs that's for sure because when something gets a buff people will just get on it if only just to try the new thing but it will level out because people will still want to play other classes that can do just the same or better.

I'm pretty sure for me this will just even the playing field and allow me to push the limits a bit more but I don't see it becoming any more op than other current class offerings.

I'm actually looking forward to possibly having different types of off meta builds that might work better due to the stats and defense being added.

xylena_lazarow · February 20

Get ready for the whining of "carried by MDW" to be replaced by "carried by Sorc class" ...

Bushido2513 · February 20

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Get ready for the whining of "carried by MDW" to be replaced by "carried by Sorc class" ...

Or just a bunch of people running shield breaker or whatever combo ends up working well against sorc.

It's funny people are talking this way. My current build is very hard to kill as is. Someone in a bg called me he who never dies the other day. This will make sorc tanky but I guess for me that part was already there if someone wanted to build into it. And yes I still have good damage.

Micah_Bayer · February 20

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

All iterations of Sorc will be S tier next patch. I’m not looking forward to fighting Sorcs that can tank like a NB/DK while having unmatched mobility, and I’m a sorc main.

There will be more sorcs that's for sure because when something gets a buff people will just get on it if only just to try the new thing but it will level out because people will still want to play other classes that can do just the same or better.

I'm pretty sure for me this will just even the playing field and allow me to push the limits a bit more but I don't see it becoming any more op than other current class offerings.

I'm actually looking forward to possibly having different types of off meta builds that might work better due to the stats and defense being added.

A good thing coming out of this is spell dmg won't be the best thing to stack anymore..Which imo needed to happen. Or even if it still is the best, then max magicka isn't far behind. It's good for build diversity. If people want to nerf the heal so bad, I wish they would also put in better ideas. Because after reading this entire thread all the ideas have reverted back to no build diversity. Spell dmg is the way forever and always. I don't like that.

Bushido2513 · February 20

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

All iterations of Sorc will be S tier next patch. I’m not looking forward to fighting Sorcs that can tank like a NB/DK while having unmatched mobility, and I’m a sorc main.

There will be more sorcs that's for sure because when something gets a buff people will just get on it if only just to try the new thing but it will level out because people will still want to play other classes that can do just the same or better.

I'm pretty sure for me this will just even the playing field and allow me to push the limits a bit more but I don't see it becoming any more op than other current class offerings.

I'm actually looking forward to possibly having different types of off meta builds that might work better due to the stats and defense being added.

A good thing coming out of this is spell dmg won't be the best thing to stack anymore..Which imo needed to happen. Or even if it still is the best, then max magicka isn't far behind. It's good for build diversity. If people want to nerf the heal so bad, I wish they would also put in better ideas. Because after reading this entire thread all the ideas have reverted back to no build diversity. Spell dmg is the way forever and always. I don't like that.

Honestly no matter what the stack, sorc needs more bar space. It would be interesting if this change let's me run one less heal so that I can slot something else but I don't know for sure. Oh well I'll still take what I can get!

Aces-High-82 · February 21

If you build for max mag you can drop vigor for bound aegis...if you run surge ofc.

StaticWave · February 21

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

All iterations of Sorc will be S tier next patch. I’m not looking forward to fighting Sorcs that can tank like a NB/DK while having unmatched mobility, and I’m a sorc main.

There will be more sorcs that's for sure because when something gets a buff people will just get on it if only just to try the new thing but it will level out because people will still want to play other classes that can do just the same or better.

I'm pretty sure for me this will just even the playing field and allow me to push the limits a bit more but I don't see it becoming any more op than other current class offerings.

I'm actually looking forward to possibly having different types of off meta builds that might work better due to the stats and defense being added.

It will be OP defensively though. Just to give you an idea of what I mean, here are 2 screenshots of my build on the live server vs on PTS in No CP:

Live server:

PTS:

The editor doesn't include the 10% max mag & stam, so I have to manually include them:

On the live server I'm using Hardened Ward as a pseudo burst heal and heal with Crystal Weapon weaving + Vigor and Crit Surge. Only weakness is no burst heal but that's taken care of with a 42k HP pool + 9.7k shield and block casting (11k with Bastion). I run this build for all PvP content. Most people struggle to heal with it because it's counter-intuitive and requires you to play unorthodoxically. Once you get used to the rotation it has very strong defensive power.

On PTS, I lose almost 3k HP, but I gained 2k more stam & mag, so more damage, and still have almost 40k HP. Shield drops to 9k in No CP (10.5k with Bastion), and I get a 5.9k burst heal (6.7k with Focused Mending). I do more damage and still retain a decent HP buffer. The difference is I am now nearly invincible because PTS Hardened Ward solves the only weakness I have. At 40k HP with a 10k shield and extremely strong offensive healing, how do you expect to kill a decent player running this build when they can also heal for 3k-4k every time they cast Hardened Ward?

And it's not like I'm sacrificing much of my offensive stats either. In No CP, I still have 6.2k WD before Balorgh, 38% crit rate, 88% crit damage, 18k pen before balorgh, 24k stam, and 10% dmg done from Essence Thief. With this much HP and healing power, I can go infused back bar (and I have), and pump that WD up to 6.4k and STILL be really hard to kill.

Even for an average player with suboptimal shield uptime, they're going to still be extremely hard to kill because every time they get low, they're going to spam the shield and get back to full. You will need to actually 1 shot them to have a chance at killing them.

All I'm saying is, the burst heal may not be a good decision. Turning it into a HoT would be a better choice while still giving Sorc the buff they need.

xylena_lazarow · February 21

StaticWave wrote: »

All I'm saying is, the burst heal may not be a good decision.

It's a decision many will regret. In the same vein, Healthy Offering is a crime against Nirn.

StaticWave · February 21

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

All I'm saying is, the burst heal may not be a good decision.

It's a decision many will regret. In the same vein, Healthy Offering is a crime against Nirn.

It isn’t a good decision. On the live server, it takes 2-3 Executioner casts for me to kill a warding Sorc when he’s at 10% HP. Infused Oblivion weapon helps, but the dmg is negated by HoTs. On PTS, that won’t be the case anymore, as 2-3 casts of Hardened Ward will bring him out of execute range.

My main concern is the average player with low shield up time will be much tankier when this patch goes live. I’m fine with tanky players who aren’t as mobile as me, but when you have sorcs that are constantly on your arse and can pop a 10k-11k shield with a 3k-4k heal per cast, it gets a little obnoxious. Good luck PvPing in Cyrodiil because the sorcs aren’t going to die, and you bet they will be popping you from max range.

TechMaybeHic · February 21

Can't wait to see basically an arcanist with more mobility, and better burst rather than cleave. I don't see the problem here

Bushido2513 · February 22

StaticWave wrote: »

All I'm saying is, the burst heal may not be a good decision. Turning it into a HoT would be a better choice while still giving Sorc the buff they need.

I'll easily say that in a 1v1 it sounds like it could be op but then again it's about as op as any other class that can be hard to kill 1v1. I mean what you're describing sounds like my experience fighting a decent player on a decent build on most classes.

But that being said I thought of this exact thing when I was in IC last night and a Procanist and hard hitting nbs were chasing me. Mind you they could keep up even after three streaks repeatedly.

Procanist immobilized, added dots then cc'd and NB hit me with a bow and then Procanist pulled the execute and that was that. I'm actually pretty tanky and pretty fast but my point is that people will do what they currently do to hard to kill players, call a friend, then call another friend, run cheese, etc.

It's going to be the same as with other classes. Five mediocre people will struggle to kill this build and 10 will kill it while 2 good coordinated players will probably nuke it or at least create so much pressure a response isn't possible.

To me this just lines up with the current state of pvp when looking at the other classes that have similar ability.

Honestly this to me just seems like there will now be a few tougher fights that I won't have to immediately run away from and that I might get away from when it comes to becoming outnumbered.

But overall I'm going to call it and say this isn't going to really make sorc op but just more playable and in line with other classes that perform at the same or higher levels.

StaticWave · February 24

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

All I'm saying is, the burst heal may not be a good decision. Turning it into a HoT would be a better choice while still giving Sorc the buff they need.

I'll easily say that in a 1v1 it sounds like it could be op but then again it's about as op as any other class that can be hard to kill 1v1. I mean what you're describing sounds like my experience fighting a decent player on a decent build on most classes.

But that being said I thought of this exact thing when I was in IC last night and a Procanist and hard hitting nbs were chasing me. Mind you they could keep up even after three streaks repeatedly.

Procanist immobilized, added dots then cc'd and NB hit me with a bow and then Procanist pulled the execute and that was that. I'm actually pretty tanky and pretty fast but my point is that people will do what they currently do to hard to kill players, call a friend, then call another friend, run cheese, etc.

It's going to be the same as with other classes. Five mediocre people will struggle to kill this build and 10 will kill it while 2 good coordinated players will probably nuke it or at least create so much pressure a response isn't possible.

To me this just lines up with the current state of pvp when looking at the other classes that have similar ability.

Honestly this to me just seems like there will now be a few tougher fights that I won't have to immediately run away from and that I might get away from when it comes to becoming outnumbered.

But overall I'm going to call it and say this isn't going to really make sorc op but just more playable and in line with other classes that perform at the same or higher levels.

Sure, I mean after all, I've done the testing on PTS. I'm not going to convince you or anyone here for that matter because most of yall haven't been on the PTS to know why it's going to be broken.

The fact of the matter though, is I can tank pretty much any class on live server that isn't using Jeralls, and that's done with good old Rally or live Hardened Ward. I'm not even specifically talking about 1v1s. I'm talking about all scenarios.

Sorc WILL become another stalemate class and that's going to be a fact too. You can take my word for it, or you can see it for yourself. I mean, even though I oppose the changes, I'm still going to enjoy several months of this class being absolutely broken. But I know now the Sorc mains on the forums are just as biased as NB mains lol. At this point is sounds like the sorc mains on the forums are so desperate for a buff they refuse to accept the changes will be too much.

Bushido2513 · February 24

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

All I'm saying is, the burst heal may not be a good decision. Turning it into a HoT would be a better choice while still giving Sorc the buff they need.

I'll easily say that in a 1v1 it sounds like it could be op but then again it's about as op as any other class that can be hard to kill 1v1. I mean what you're describing sounds like my experience fighting a decent player on a decent build on most classes.

But that being said I thought of this exact thing when I was in IC last night and a Procanist and hard hitting nbs were chasing me. Mind you they could keep up even after three streaks repeatedly.

Procanist immobilized, added dots then cc'd and NB hit me with a bow and then Procanist pulled the execute and that was that. I'm actually pretty tanky and pretty fast but my point is that people will do what they currently do to hard to kill players, call a friend, then call another friend, run cheese, etc.

It's going to be the same as with other classes. Five mediocre people will struggle to kill this build and 10 will kill it while 2 good coordinated players will probably nuke it or at least create so much pressure a response isn't possible.

To me this just lines up with the current state of pvp when looking at the other classes that have similar ability.

Honestly this to me just seems like there will now be a few tougher fights that I won't have to immediately run away from and that I might get away from when it comes to becoming outnumbered.

But overall I'm going to call it and say this isn't going to really make sorc op but just more playable and in line with other classes that perform at the same or higher levels.

Sure, I mean after all, I've done the testing on PTS. I'm not going to convince you or anyone here for that matter because most of yall haven't been on the PTS to know why it's going to be broken.

The fact of the matter though, is I can tank pretty much any class on live server that isn't using Jeralls, and that's done with good old Rally or live Hardened Ward. I'm not even specifically talking about 1v1s. I'm talking about all scenarios.

Sorc WILL become another stalemate class and that's going to be a fact too. You can take my word for it, or you can see it for yourself. I mean, even though I oppose the changes, I'm still going to enjoy several months of this class being absolutely broken. But I know now the Sorc mains on the forums are just as biased as NB mains lol. At this point is sounds like the sorc mains on the forums are so desperate for a buff they refuse to accept the changes will be too much.

I agree that it will join the stalemate classes depending on build but again that will be more in line with most other classes. I mean you could then compare this with NB but NB might still be considered to be overall stronger.

We will see interesting stuff from sorc and they will be harder to kill but my point is that it isn't anything NB can't do on live right now and they aren't nerfing NB so it just seems like joining the party.

So I don't really consider being able to heal and streak away as broken. I do that on live against zergs right now.

Honestly I would only consider this to be broken when the heal was so strong you could take streak off the bar and replace it with a generic cc then take on two similar or better skilled players without much of an issue.

As long as sorc has to lean on streak, has bar space issues, etc then I think it's still sorc.

Maybe I'm jaded from all the Arcanist abuse and the spec bows 😂, I can admit that!