The burst heal from Sorcerer's Conjured Ward and its morphs needs to be value capped

Duke_Falcon

StaticWave wrote: »

sunshineflame wrote: »

This dude pvps on the forums more than in game

Because I’ve played it long enough and don’t find as much enjoyment logging on anymore? Why does that matter to you lol

Wait a minute. Your advocating for change in a game you don't log into anymore?

StaticWave

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

sunshineflame wrote: »

This dude pvps on the forums more than in game

Because I’ve played it long enough and don’t find as much enjoyment logging on anymore? Why does that matter to you lol

Wait a minute. Your advocating for change in a game you don't log into anymore?

I still log on, and sometimes I don’t. Last time I logged on was yesterday. Went on PTS last week to test the changes. Otherwise, how would I be able to post my PTS screenshots lol.

I just don’t enjoy the game as much as I used to, so logging on becomes a chore.

Bushido2513

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

sunshineflame wrote: »

This dude pvps on the forums more than in game

Because I’ve played it long enough and don’t find as much enjoyment logging on anymore? Why does that matter to you lol

Wait a minute. Your advocating for change in a game you don't log into anymore?

Even if Static didn't currently play would it be hard to imagine someone wanting to try to get the game they enjoyed to a better place to have a reason to come back?

Actually that would be more of a thing to recognize here. The amount of people that would play more often or at all, if this was a better game

Duke_Falcon

If your logging in and not enjoying it. I hope you work for ZoS and are at least getting paid. lol

I feel ya, the current state that Sorc was been in for the last couple years has been pretty discouraging.

Iriidius

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's wild that they took the most OP part of Arcanist's kit (Impervious), removed the crux requirement, and slapped it on Mag Sorc with mag scaling.

At least Arcs have to stack health and have 3 crux to make Impervious busted.

They're not exactly 1:1.

Impervious Runeward has 2 shields + the heal that stacks based on crux spent (also deals magic damage to an attacker and Arc has a shield scaling passive). I'd have to see 2 builds optimized for their versions of the shield, but based on the tooltip alone, Impervious looks like it scales the heal and upfront shield higher, with the 2nd shield lower. Obviously they have to go for health instead of mag, but that has its own pro's/con's.

Based on what @Turtle_Bot showed, the 65k mag build they attempted had terrible sustain, crit, and pen. I feel like they would constantly be running away or heavy attacking, with very little actual kill potential.

I think what will happen is more well rounded builds like Static showed, but they're still giving up some of the most broken sets right now to do it.

Idk, I don't play mag Sorc in pvp or ESO lately at all to comment properly, I just find it hard to believe a 3-5k heal proc is going to make a gigantic difference when Sorc has been complaining about shields being outdated for 5 years? I'd like some Mag Sorc mains to comment on it.

They are magsorc mains xD. Time will tell when everyone switches to sorc, and the problem becomes more noticeable.

They literally are on pts every day testing. I trust static 1000%.

I have no doubt that Statics limited testing is authentic but it still needs to be seen as just that, limited. Drawing conclusions on pieces of the picture will possibly yield incomplete conclusions.

There's just no way to see the full picture on this one.

Does it matter though? I’m not sure why we need to wait for everyone to test this skill before making any adjustment. Like say hypothetically, I’m barely an average player on the live server and my shield uptime is relatively low at 50%. I take a burst combo and drop to 20% HP. Let’s say I cast Ward 3 times. Because I’m not mechanically good, I forget to weave other abilities and light attacks in between to proc Surge and heal up. I eventually die.

What’s going to happen with the new change is instead of being punished for my mistakes. I can cast ward 3 times at 20% HP, gain 4k non crit heal per cast, and instantly get back to full HP. With 13.5k ward that can be spammed, there’s no shot i’m dying.

The point is, it doesn’t require extensive testing to see why its broken when stacked with 50k+ max mag. New Hardened Ward makes playing defensive SUPER easy, and anybody can tank next patch, even the ppl with low shield up time. The ones with 90%+ shield up time won’t die unless they make a mistake that you can capitalize on or fight someone with 6-7k DPS. 6-7k DPS will kill ANY class on the live server. Do you want another tank class? I hope not.

Ok geez so here we go.

What I'm saying is this. You can't test what people will do to adapt to the situation using new sets, old sets, changes to status effects, etc. Just do the math for a sec and understand that when everyone gets access there may be ways to build to counter your build that you might not be seeing and maybe they will just zerg down sorcs on sight?

So as evidence of this I present Arcanist. It's busted we all know it. Did people stop playing the game? No. If you see an arcanist you either leave it alone and move on or you gang up and kill it.


My point is that yes this sorc build you're presenting sounds strong and probably is in the 1v1 but ZOS does not care about the 1v1 so it's not relevant.


I'm just going to say it again, the build you're presenting is not unkillable, nobody in this game is unkillable, yeah you'll get kills and it might be hard for 1 person to deal with you but that's why we have zergs and groups which is really what this game encourages.

'
And yes the build has ranged damaged but anyone in this game can build around it. I can think of a build for any class where I won't die to the build you're posting with relative ease. Sure I won't have much damage but again that's what group play is for.


So at the end of the day yes the build is interesting in a 1v1 which doesn't matter. In a group setting yes you can kite and throw out ranged damage but if a zerg wants to kill you bad enough they will. Or you'll run and live and that's fine in my book.


So to wrap that all up there just isn't a way to test everything that will happen on live because you don't have nearly enough diversity and sample group to test with. And I've already said if it was a higher number heal I might be on board but ZOS to their credit picked a number I can't easily argue for or against. Likely done on purpose.


If this game was geared towards 1v1 then your testing would absolutely be rock solid and I'd have to agree but it isn't and you can't really test the alternative so yes you have some math but it's incomplete when we take into account the intended content this change will go into.

So basically, I'm just hearing *Static your wrong, a zerg can kill you* . With that logic then yes a zerg can kill a 70k hp 50k resistance perma block tank too. It just happens. Zos doesn't care about the zergs eithers. Or they would nuke cross healing again.

You are better off just saying what I said. Zos doesn't care about PvP feedback in general. It has to be something that is literally broken. Like the combat bug still hasn't been patched.

Yet my bro Gopher, submitted a ticket about a new Radiant Apex mount having an animation bug, and they fixed it right away.

Did you read what you just said? That's my point, they don't nuke cross healing and therefore encourage you to gang up.

In this game you will always be at your most powerful in a group by a factor that shouldn't even exist in this game. There are so many shared buffs and heals that but ZOS does encourage that because you know what general pop likes, is being able to feel like they are engaging in a war. Getting run down by several players or losing to an overpowered spec or even a better player isn't fun and attractive to new players. So ZOS encourages group play in that a new player will feel safer and more engaged even if it is their buddy keeping them in the fight the whole time.

You can go back through previous videos of youtubers and almost track the decline of 1vx. ZOS likes to encourage group dynamics because it keeps you more engaged to be social and playing the game. It's actually not the worst idea it's just the the implementation sucks when you have several people on the field that are getting heals and are tanky and you're getting hand cramps going through your rotation watching their health not move while you as well don't die because you're getting heals.

Bottom line group play is better for the life of the game. 1v1 isn't bad at all but has more potential to turn off new or existing players when it goes bad. Xv1 really sends new players running for the hills which brings us in some part to the tank meta and being encouraged to group up.

At this point there are several builds and specs you just aren't killing without help and thus back to being encouraged to group!

Group play is definitely not better for the game, especially when the population is already so low that is difficult to get enaugh players for a group, at offhours often the whole faction has not enaugh players for one group and sometimes it seems like I am the only player of my faction in Cyrodiil. A few years ago when PuG groups(„Type lfg for group“) were common it wouldn‘t have been so bad but now often you cant join a group and you also cant play solo, so you can‘t play Cyrodiil or IC at all (except you like getting zerged again and again) and better leave this zone. I am not sure if the number of players that leave because of group PvP bigger than those who join, but it definitely doesn’t make PvP better. What is happening in Cyrodiil nowadays isn‘t competitive PvP but Zergs farming solo players and avoiding each other. Cyrodiil is now dominated by players who run from 1v1, but attack you if they outnumber you. ZOS shouldnt remove solo players from Cyrodiil if they already have to few players. Solo pvp also requires less players than group pvp and there are few players in Cyrodiil.

Bushido2513

Iriidius wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's wild that they took the most OP part of Arcanist's kit (Impervious), removed the crux requirement, and slapped it on Mag Sorc with mag scaling.

At least Arcs have to stack health and have 3 crux to make Impervious busted.

They're not exactly 1:1.

Impervious Runeward has 2 shields + the heal that stacks based on crux spent (also deals magic damage to an attacker and Arc has a shield scaling passive). I'd have to see 2 builds optimized for their versions of the shield, but based on the tooltip alone, Impervious looks like it scales the heal and upfront shield higher, with the 2nd shield lower. Obviously they have to go for health instead of mag, but that has its own pro's/con's.

Based on what @Turtle_Bot showed, the 65k mag build they attempted had terrible sustain, crit, and pen. I feel like they would constantly be running away or heavy attacking, with very little actual kill potential.

I think what will happen is more well rounded builds like Static showed, but they're still giving up some of the most broken sets right now to do it.

Idk, I don't play mag Sorc in pvp or ESO lately at all to comment properly, I just find it hard to believe a 3-5k heal proc is going to make a gigantic difference when Sorc has been complaining about shields being outdated for 5 years? I'd like some Mag Sorc mains to comment on it.

They are magsorc mains xD. Time will tell when everyone switches to sorc, and the problem becomes more noticeable.

They literally are on pts every day testing. I trust static 1000%.

I have no doubt that Statics limited testing is authentic but it still needs to be seen as just that, limited. Drawing conclusions on pieces of the picture will possibly yield incomplete conclusions.

There's just no way to see the full picture on this one.

Does it matter though? I’m not sure why we need to wait for everyone to test this skill before making any adjustment. Like say hypothetically, I’m barely an average player on the live server and my shield uptime is relatively low at 50%. I take a burst combo and drop to 20% HP. Let’s say I cast Ward 3 times. Because I’m not mechanically good, I forget to weave other abilities and light attacks in between to proc Surge and heal up. I eventually die.

What’s going to happen with the new change is instead of being punished for my mistakes. I can cast ward 3 times at 20% HP, gain 4k non crit heal per cast, and instantly get back to full HP. With 13.5k ward that can be spammed, there’s no shot i’m dying.

The point is, it doesn’t require extensive testing to see why its broken when stacked with 50k+ max mag. New Hardened Ward makes playing defensive SUPER easy, and anybody can tank next patch, even the ppl with low shield up time. The ones with 90%+ shield up time won’t die unless they make a mistake that you can capitalize on or fight someone with 6-7k DPS. 6-7k DPS will kill ANY class on the live server. Do you want another tank class? I hope not.

Ok geez so here we go.

What I'm saying is this. You can't test what people will do to adapt to the situation using new sets, old sets, changes to status effects, etc. Just do the math for a sec and understand that when everyone gets access there may be ways to build to counter your build that you might not be seeing and maybe they will just zerg down sorcs on sight?

So as evidence of this I present Arcanist. It's busted we all know it. Did people stop playing the game? No. If you see an arcanist you either leave it alone and move on or you gang up and kill it.


My point is that yes this sorc build you're presenting sounds strong and probably is in the 1v1 but ZOS does not care about the 1v1 so it's not relevant.


I'm just going to say it again, the build you're presenting is not unkillable, nobody in this game is unkillable, yeah you'll get kills and it might be hard for 1 person to deal with you but that's why we have zergs and groups which is really what this game encourages.

'
And yes the build has ranged damaged but anyone in this game can build around it. I can think of a build for any class where I won't die to the build you're posting with relative ease. Sure I won't have much damage but again that's what group play is for.


So at the end of the day yes the build is interesting in a 1v1 which doesn't matter. In a group setting yes you can kite and throw out ranged damage but if a zerg wants to kill you bad enough they will. Or you'll run and live and that's fine in my book.


So to wrap that all up there just isn't a way to test everything that will happen on live because you don't have nearly enough diversity and sample group to test with. And I've already said if it was a higher number heal I might be on board but ZOS to their credit picked a number I can't easily argue for or against. Likely done on purpose.


If this game was geared towards 1v1 then your testing would absolutely be rock solid and I'd have to agree but it isn't and you can't really test the alternative so yes you have some math but it's incomplete when we take into account the intended content this change will go into.

So basically, I'm just hearing *Static your wrong, a zerg can kill you* . With that logic then yes a zerg can kill a 70k hp 50k resistance perma block tank too. It just happens. Zos doesn't care about the zergs eithers. Or they would nuke cross healing again.

You are better off just saying what I said. Zos doesn't care about PvP feedback in general. It has to be something that is literally broken. Like the combat bug still hasn't been patched.

Yet my bro Gopher, submitted a ticket about a new Radiant Apex mount having an animation bug, and they fixed it right away.

Did you read what you just said? That's my point, they don't nuke cross healing and therefore encourage you to gang up.

In this game you will always be at your most powerful in a group by a factor that shouldn't even exist in this game. There are so many shared buffs and heals that but ZOS does encourage that because you know what general pop likes, is being able to feel like they are engaging in a war. Getting run down by several players or losing to an overpowered spec or even a better player isn't fun and attractive to new players. So ZOS encourages group play in that a new player will feel safer and more engaged even if it is their buddy keeping them in the fight the whole time.

You can go back through previous videos of youtubers and almost track the decline of 1vx. ZOS likes to encourage group dynamics because it keeps you more engaged to be social and playing the game. It's actually not the worst idea it's just the the implementation sucks when you have several people on the field that are getting heals and are tanky and you're getting hand cramps going through your rotation watching their health not move while you as well don't die because you're getting heals.

Bottom line group play is better for the life of the game. 1v1 isn't bad at all but has more potential to turn off new or existing players when it goes bad. Xv1 really sends new players running for the hills which brings us in some part to the tank meta and being encouraged to group up.

At this point there are several builds and specs you just aren't killing without help and thus back to being encouraged to group!

Group play is definitely not better for the game, especially when the population is already so low that is difficult to get enaugh players for a group, at offhours often the whole faction has not enaugh players for one group and sometimes it seems like I am the only player of my faction in Cyrodiil. A few years ago when PuG groups(„Type lfg for group“) were common it wouldn‘t have been so bad but now often you cant join a group and you also cant play solo, so you can‘t play Cyrodiil or IC at all (except you like getting zerged again and again) and better leave this zone. I am not sure if the number of players that leave because of group PvP bigger than those who join, but it definitely doesn’t make PvP better. What is happening in Cyrodiil nowadays isn‘t competitive PvP but Zergs farming solo players and avoiding each other. Cyrodiil is now dominated by players who run from 1v1, but attack you if they outnumber you. ZOS shouldnt remove solo players from Cyrodiil if they already have to few players. Solo pvp also requires less players than group pvp and there are few players in Cyrodiil.

I'm not saying population is all the great, it isn't for many reasons.

What I'm saying is that when they do play, most players prefer to be in a group and I can understand why ZOS encourages it.

All inclusive sells these days and group battle is better at including everyone.

You can very much still solo in this game, you just have to really build for it and accept that ZOS cuts you zero breaks lol.

This shield change though will make solo a bit easier on sorc for sure!

StaticWave

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

If your logging in and not enjoying it. I hope you work for ZoS and are at least getting paid. lol

I feel ya, the current state that Sorc was been in for the last couple years has been pretty discouraging.

Lolol. The only thing I find enjoyable in the game now is theory-crafting and testing new builds. Even that can be boring sometimes because the power disparity between sets are too much that I’m left with no option but to pick the obvious choice.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

If your logging in and not enjoying it. I hope you work for ZoS and are at least getting paid. lol

I feel ya, the current state that Sorc was been in for the last couple years has been pretty discouraging.

Lolol. The only thing I find enjoyable in the game now is theory-crafting and testing new builds. Even that can be boring sometimes because the power disparity between sets are too much that I’m left with no option but to pick the obvious choice.

Malcolm said the same thing about why he really wasn't putting out build videos anymore. There's basically only a few good choices with anything else just being sub par.

I do appreciate that my build is one that I'm pretty sure nobody is wearing but that still works very well for my playstyles vs what the meta build gave me in results.

Galeriano

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Problem with adding a cap to this heal is that it's yet another limitation on a sorc kit that is full of specific limitations and drawbacks with main ones being:

-dark deal, cast time and capped heal value
-streak, ramping cost
-shields- outdated scaling and capped values
-pets, taking two slots and being killable

There are also more universal drawbacks like general lack of usefull secondary effects on many abilities and some counterintuitive features like for example crit surge requiring crit dmg on a class that lacks sticky DoTs and major prophecy/savagery in it's kit.

Do I think that heal on shield is broken? Yes, but the think is we got to the point where in order for a class to be competitive in PvP it requires broken features without drawbacks.

Well I think it’s more healthy to have 3-4 skills that aren’t broken on their own and only when combined to carry the class, rather than 1 skill that’s so broken it carries the class. At least then you have a strong argument against nerfing all of those skills, whereas its pretty to just say “hey hardened ward is too strong let’s nerf it”

I’d rather have Surge and Dark Deal buffed to the point that Hardened Ward only requires a minor change like Interrupt Immunity to make the class strong.

The issue is if You want to have something healthy these days it's doomed to be underperforming. PvP balance is becoming all about having things that are overperforming on their own and this is why magsorc started to fall behind.

Surge and dark deal are already strong abilities on their own and adding interrupt immunity to hardened ward is far from a "minor change", it's pretty big. So You would end up with 3 strong or maybe even overperforming abilities instead of 1. And these changes would also affect stamsorc which is pretty decent right now so You could end up with magsorc still being potentialy inferior. Current change to hardened is targeted mainly at magsorc.

Jsmalls

I think Surge is a rather weak ability. It depends on crits for a class without in-house Major Prophecy. Compared to the PTS surge healed me for 1/3rd of the amount that the new hardened ward healed me for.

Take the new leeching strike ability as a comparison. ~2000 health heal on ANY damage, AND able to use it to get FREE resources attached to ability that is ALWAYS active....

Surge is garbage compared to that ability.

Then dark deal is alright but 10 second uptime is extremely inconvenient. Plus having a cast time makes this hard to use in a competitive scenario.

StaticWave

Patched dropped and Sorcs take forever to die. Shouldved reverted the change lol

Luede

i switched from stam/hybrid to mag sorc yesterday and although i've never played the setup like this before and also played without shields for ages, it was much easier to survive. the heal is already very strong. especially the 10% + mag/stam res ontop are extremely strong, even if the hit points are already missing.

in terms of balance, i think it would have made more sense to implement a HOT instead of the heal.

Zabagad

I'm fine if they cap the max at 50K or make a 4s-HoT instead (I'm not even sure that this would not even be better for me?).
I just hope that they don't plain decrease the value for all - even if they play with non-max-builds.

I'm fine if they change the +10% mag/stam into +6% tri for example.

StaticWave

I've literally warned about this since 1ST DAY OF PTS and a bunch of people opposed my concern. Guess what's happening on live? Sorcs are literally unkillable while doing extremely high burst. Man what is even the point of PTS when people who don't participate in PTS testing can just argue with you without any evidence to support their claim lol

xylena_lazarow

StaticWave wrote: »

I've literally warned about this since 1ST DAY OF PTS and a bunch of people opposed my concern. Guess what's happening on live? Sorcs are literally unkillable while doing extremely high burst. Man what is even the point of PTS when people who don't participate in PTS testing can just argue with you without any evidence to support their claim lol

What's even more tiring is the fact that ZOS continues to "listen" to these players.

StarOfElyon

Luede wrote: »

i switched from stam/hybrid to mag sorc yesterday and although i've never played the setup like this before and also played without shields for ages, it was much easier to survive. the heal is already very strong. especially the 10% + mag/stam res ontop are extremely strong, even if the hit points are already missing.

in terms of balance, i think it would have made more sense to implement a HOT instead of the heal.

Probably a better idea.

IncultaWolf

StaticWave wrote: »

Patched dropped and Sorcs take forever to die. Shouldved reverted the change lol

Can confirm lol

Duke_Falcon

StaticWave wrote: »

Patched dropped and Sorcs take forever to die. Shouldved reverted the change lol

I agree, all classes should be just as easy to kill as Mag Sorcs were pre-patch. Lets make this balanced.

MashmalloMan

Only playing solo BGs so thats my only perspective so far. I get the feeling that mag sorcs are being seen as OP in CP campaigns/1v1s.

Mag Sorc:

There is a lot of great CP's to cover our downsides like the 15% shield passive, Major Protection on CC, sustain so you can build more into max mag, etc. That landscape is just much better for ranged where pew pewing at the back of a group is highly beneficial. To that effect, Sorc is probably the best ranged damage dealer in the game, but that won't ever change, it's how their skills are built. Similarly to how DK's will always be great for BG's where melee and natural tankiness is more important.

DK is like the gold standard right now for balance, class identity, and power fantasy, but lets remember their history. They were great at launch, then sucked for a few years, then they got overbuffed for another few years, the most recent few years they've had minor changes that retain their status quo. Any change done to them is usually minor or a quality of life improvement at this point. This feels like Sorcs path, more specifically Mag Sorcs who have had the same shields for 5 years and received almost 0 benefit from Hybridization where every other class got some type of bonus from the added tools in their kit. The best Mag Sorc got was Minor Berserk on Dark Conversion, a huge nerf to Atro, and sets like Crafty Alfiq and Death Dealers Fete... Now this.

I have fought a few troll tank Sorcs, but like any class, you realize whats going on after about 5 seconds and walk away. They had 0 kill potential, every class can do this. Thats just the state of the game right now. Meh.

The strongest mag sorc I've seen so far was a bit of an exception because they cheesed 500 ult overload spam at the start of a match killing my not so experienced team mates so fast they quit within minutes of the match. Not much can be done about that until they rework overload. Cheese is cheese.

In the 1v1s I had with Mag Sorcs in the corner of some BG maps, some of them felt like stalemates instead of me outright killing them like before the patch by pressuring them. It kinda felt like fighting a templar pre-nerfs to jabs/potl. The ability to dish damage, be a bit of a glass cannon, but survive execute by turtling up. I'm not sure of their skill level, but I'm playing a completely different build and I don't consider it good in 1v1s to begin with. If I ever hit a stalemate after like 2 buff rotations, I usually just move on. Not my idea of fun.

Stam Sorc:

I'll get around to trying a max mag build eventually because it does seem like the best way to play sorc right now unfortunately. Really feels like they left stam sorc behind, the synergies just aren't there. Bound Armaments no longer gives 8% HP, the passive works on its own for 10% stam/mag. I find it's not worth the bar slot for only 8% Stam and a skill that hits like a wet noodle that misses 95% of the time. Not to mention I lose the stacks for it constantly as a melee build. Just not worth it. Haunting Curse is way better.

I'm just way too attached to melee stam sorc, but I know it's a bit of an uphill battle, I'm nowhere near as tanky as I'd like, I just prefer the speed and playstyle of it. The changes really don't effect us unless you build for like 40k HP, but I seriously don't know how I'd kill anything if I built that way and now we have -8% less HP to make it work.

Ranged Mag/Stam Sorc gets boring for me really quickly even though I know they've always been more effective. Surge/Vigor/DD just don't heal enough for a melee build, so if you pin me down, I'm dead easily. Really wish they would improve Surge for ESO's 2024 context, it's fallen behind. DD's 10s window sucks and the cast time kills the burst heal aspect.

To me, it mostly feels like other classes are just behind and still need to be brought up, this is the order I'd put them in if I had to:

1. NB is OP, needs to be knocked down a peg, still seeing 15-20k Merciless Procs, "just block" they say.. lol okay.
2. Arcanist I haven't played enough to formulate an opinion on.
3. DK's just great right now, I've never seen a class as balanced as them in the history of the game.
4. Sorcs, I've given my comments above.
5. Warden has little damage skill variety, but are at least tanky with lots built in utility.
6. Templar still has great healing, terrible damage, but are OP in execute kill stealing.
7. Necro, nuff said.

All this said. I'm going to agree with the suggestions that it could be converted into a HOT for a more balanced approach. I can't see any real reason to cast Dark Conversion or waste a slot for Encase with the way Hardened Ward is built.

StaticWave

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Patched dropped and Sorcs take forever to die. Shouldved reverted the change lol

I agree, all classes should be just as easy to kill as Mag Sorcs were pre-patch. Lets make this balanced.

Of course, I'm all for that, but at the moment mag sorc has both tankiness and unmatched mobility with Streak. Refusing to see this is refusing to see balance.

Duke_Falcon

StaticWave wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Patched dropped and Sorcs take forever to die. Shouldved reverted the change lol

I agree, all classes should be just as easy to kill as Mag Sorcs were pre-patch. Lets make this balanced.

Of course, I'm all for that, but at the moment mag sorc has both tankiness and unmatched mobility with Streak. Refusing to see this is refusing to see balance.

Everyone can slot Elusive Mist and have the same mobility. Will they have bar space issues? I hope so, so that they can embrace the same problems and balance of the Mag Sorc.

TechMaybeHic

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Patched dropped and Sorcs take forever to die. Shouldved reverted the change lol

I agree, all classes should be just as easy to kill as Mag Sorcs were pre-patch. Lets make this balanced.

Of course, I'm all for that, but at the moment mag sorc has both tankiness and unmatched mobility with Streak. Refusing to see this is refusing to see balance.

Everyone can slot Elusive Mist and have the same mobility. Will they have bar space issues? I hope so, so that they can embrace the same problems and balance of the Mag Sorc.

Elusive mist is not nearly as quick. They made it slower a couple patches ago to where I rarely see it used. About the only equivalency it gives to streak is when sorcs use streak to get across a gap you otherwise would not be able to jump. Other than that, its more akin to a magicka roll dodge

StaticWave

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Patched dropped and Sorcs take forever to die. Shouldved reverted the change lol

I agree, all classes should be just as easy to kill as Mag Sorcs were pre-patch. Lets make this balanced.

Of course, I'm all for that, but at the moment mag sorc has both tankiness and unmatched mobility with Streak. Refusing to see this is refusing to see balance.

Everyone can slot Elusive Mist and have the same mobility. Will they have bar space issues? I hope so, so that they can embrace the same problems and balance of the Mag Sorc.

They can have the same mobility, but they won't be able to run sub 24k HP with everything into damage and still have the same tankiness. Sorc can, and that's been proven on live already. If you defend this, you are defending a broken aspect of the class, and you are no different than the NB mains defending Cloak.

ZDunlain

PvP has become super disgusting with the sorcerers just jumping and moving everywhere with a big shield and heal... This is super disgusting to play against and as a main templar this is a joke. Literally play templar against a sorc feels like you don't do anything.

Sorcs have the best mobility with an unblockable stun, a big self heal/shield better than templar one and in top of that an awesome damage because now they are free to build in more damage because of the buff on the shield.

Absolute joke ZOS

IncultaWolf

ZDunlain wrote: »

PvP has become super disgusting with the sorcerers just jumping and moving everywhere with a big shield and heal... This is super disgusting to play against and as a main templar this is a joke. Literally play templar against a sorc feels like you don't do anything.

Sorcs have the best mobility with an unblockable stun, a big self heal/shield better than templar one and in top of that an awesome damage because now they are free to build in more damage because of the buff on the shield.

Absolute joke ZOS

Agreed. Templar and necromancer need a lot of help to compete in this meta

moo_2021

why not rework streak instead?

Duke_Falcon

StaticWave wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Patched dropped and Sorcs take forever to die. Shouldved reverted the change lol

I agree, all classes should be just as easy to kill as Mag Sorcs were pre-patch. Lets make this balanced.

Of course, I'm all for that, but at the moment mag sorc has both tankiness and unmatched mobility with Streak. Refusing to see this is refusing to see balance.

Everyone can slot Elusive Mist and have the same mobility. Will they have bar space issues? I hope so, so that they can embrace the same problems and balance of the Mag Sorc.

They can have the same mobility, but they won't be able to run sub 24k HP with everything into damage and still have the same tankiness. Sorc can, and that's been proven on live already. If you defend this, you are defending a broken aspect of the class, and you are no different than the NB mains defending Cloak.

Everyone needs to drop from 40k HP and put some damage in their builds. 24k HP on a Sorc even now and your an insta kill for any decent nightblade. Acting like 24k HP on a Sorc is Meta is an exageration, thats extemely low HP. 28-29k is a safe threshold for Sorc, maybe 27k if your being risky.

jaws343

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Patched dropped and Sorcs take forever to die. Shouldved reverted the change lol

I agree, all classes should be just as easy to kill as Mag Sorcs were pre-patch. Lets make this balanced.

Of course, I'm all for that, but at the moment mag sorc has both tankiness and unmatched mobility with Streak. Refusing to see this is refusing to see balance.

Everyone can slot Elusive Mist and have the same mobility. Will they have bar space issues? I hope so, so that they can embrace the same problems and balance of the Mag Sorc.

They can have the same mobility, but they won't be able to run sub 24k HP with everything into damage and still have the same tankiness. Sorc can, and that's been proven on live already. If you defend this, you are defending a broken aspect of the class, and you are no different than the NB mains defending Cloak.

Everyone needs to drop from 40k HP and put some damage in their builds. 24k HP on a Sorc even now and your an insta kill for any decent nightblade. Acting like 24k HP on a Sorc is Meta is an exageration, thats extemely low HP. 28-29k is a safe threshold for Sorc, maybe 27k if your being risky.

I've been trying a mix of 28-35K health sorcs, with a max mag stack, and honestly against any decent player, or being focused by more than one player, the amount of incoming damage is outpacing any amount of reasonable shield spamming for healing.

It is really not that strong, and even to remotely make it a useful heal, you are doling out the same levels of mediocre damage you were dealing pre-patch. I think I gained less than 1K damage on my crushing shock tooltip, Still a sub 9K spammable, even at 50K mag. So ultimately, survival is a little bit better, especially in execute (where sorcs basically did not exist once they went into execute before), but damage is still horrendous.

Not to mention, to really stack enough burst while trying to boost shields, you are losing major bar slots for skills to push players harder. Especially when a single dodge roll negates 75% of your burst combo. 1 v 1 fights aren't stalling because sorcs have too much defense, they are stalling because sorcs rely on precisely timed burst combos that are so easily countered.

Not to mention, a sorc spamming a single shield for a heal is literally the same problem a sorc spamming 3 shields for stacking has, a ton of GCDs being dumped into active defensive actions. GCDs that provide little opportunity to go back on the offensive effectively enough to push a fight to a win.

StaticWave

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Patched dropped and Sorcs take forever to die. Shouldved reverted the change lol

I agree, all classes should be just as easy to kill as Mag Sorcs were pre-patch. Lets make this balanced.

Of course, I'm all for that, but at the moment mag sorc has both tankiness and unmatched mobility with Streak. Refusing to see this is refusing to see balance.

Everyone can slot Elusive Mist and have the same mobility. Will they have bar space issues? I hope so, so that they can embrace the same problems and balance of the Mag Sorc.

They can have the same mobility, but they won't be able to run sub 24k HP with everything into damage and still have the same tankiness. Sorc can, and that's been proven on live already. If you defend this, you are defending a broken aspect of the class, and you are no different than the NB mains defending Cloak.

Everyone needs to drop from 40k HP and put some damage in their builds. 24k HP on a Sorc even now and your an insta kill for any decent nightblade. Acting like 24k HP on a Sorc is Meta is an exageration, thats extemely low HP. 28-29k is a safe threshold for Sorc, maybe 27k if your being risky.

15k shield allows for that to happen.

StaticWave

jaws343 wrote: »

[

It is really not that strong, and even to remotely make it a useful heal, you are doling out the same levels of mediocre damage you were dealing pre-patch.

I'm sorry but this is just flat-out untrue lol. Ward is currently carrying Sorc to top tier status. I've done enough testing with multiple versions of Sorc to reach this conclusion (HP shield and mag shield with various levels of max mag and max HP)