What do you feel when you have to kick players or leave a group?

Parasaurolophus

Yesterday was a dreadful evening for my gaming experience. Coming home from work, I wanted to have a pleasant evening, complete a couple of dungeons or trials, and then go to sleep. But I felt cursed.

First, I logged in on my tank and wanted to do pledges for 6 keys. I gathered people, some from the guild, some from the group finder. The first dungeon was Banished Cells, and it quickly became evident that we wouldn't achieve 6 keys. Everyone in the party had over 1000 CP, but the DPS was so low that it took about 2 minutes for side bosses. I simply left, writing that sorry, guys, I have to go.

Okay... I log in on another character, a damage dealer. I open the group finder and see that there's a group for vDSR. We assemble and start. The first bash mechanic on the first boss results in a wipe. One wipe, two wipes. People started leaving, and I did too.

I open the group finder again, check for a party in vSE. Everything seemed fine, but on the first boss, after 7 minutes of fighting, the boss still had 86% HP, and several times, we were close to wiping. I left again.

I think it's unnecessary to say that I was already in a pretty bad mood. I decided to farm crystals and run random dungeons on all characters to at least spend some time in the game productively. I log in again on the tank, start a random dungeon. I end up in Scrivener's Hall. Again, all players above 1000 CP. It takes us 50 seconds for the first mob pack. In normal Scrivener's Hall! I leave.

I have only an hour and a half left. I decide to form a party for vDSA. One player had 600 CP, and I just kicked him. I apologized and wrote that I believe his CP would be insufficient for a comfortable run. But he got offended and started complaining about me in the guild chat. And you know what? I felt nothing. Absolutely nothing. Usually, I prefer not to kick people from the party because I later feel guilty. But after everything I went through this evening, I felt nothing. I found a replacement player. The first round started, and I saw another player just spamming light attacks with a bow. I had to kick him too. He complained, wrote in private messages. But I ignored him... I don't like and don't want to argue. I don't like teaching people how to play. The person had over 1000 CP and all he did was spam light attacks from a bow. I quickly found a replacement... After finishing the arena, I went to bed. Completely shattered and drained.

Soarora

I’m sorry you had such a bad experience. Luckily, I don’t have bad groups too often. I don’t kick people unless they’re being a menace (running ahead, afk at the door, etc) but if I’m frustrated enough to leave, I feel no guilt. It’s not hard to make me not leave, so if I do, they definitely deserve it.

Syldras

If I'd be counting the duration of each fight to the split second, I'd be in a bad mood, too.

Sakiri

Syldras wrote: »

If I'd be counting the duration of each fight to the split second, I'd be in a bad mood, too.

I can kill trash two man faster than that guy's entire four man group did.

Being in a bad mood is fully anticipated there.

Ragnarok0130

That's the danger of group finder on veteran and veteran+ levels that people like myself identified as a potential shortfall for bringing a group finder to trials based on our raiding experience here and in other games.

I've had to leave veteran dungeons for the same reason as you in the past and it sucks but you quickly know if a group can complete the content without it becoming a prog slog or even if you know they can't clear it under any circumstance. It sucks to leave but sometimes you have to for your own sanity. I have also dragged new players that I met in group finder through veteran dungeons if I though it was just a knowledge/mech issue and not a skill issue even if it takes much longer than I anticipated when queuing.

I've only ever had to remove other people from trial groups due to extremely low DPS or more often because they were running their mouth needlessly insulting people instead of being a good member of the team. The worst part of that is trying to find a replacement for the position IMO and not kicking the offender.

All in all with group finder sometimes you roll all 1s and other times you get all 6s...luck of the draw.

Melivar

I generally don't kick people and unless they seem to be doing something detrimental to the group like running ahead and someone else initiates, I don't vote to kick much either.

When I leave a group, I will normally just say good luck and hopefully you get a quick replacement but feels like this group will be unsuccessful for "x". If I get any further comments I will normally just say "Your entitled to your opinion as am I" and leave it at that.

I often have a fixed amount of time to play and unless it's a guild member who has asked to try to get something accomplished and know going in that it might be a chore, I will make a judgement call that benefits myself.

I can suffer a fair amount of mental pain for guildies and will try my darndest to make things work before pulling the plug, randoms not so much.

Scyware

Better get used to kicking people. I feel like the only people that do end-game content nowadays do it for the achievement reward at the end (skin, mount, personality). All the smart people that knew what was going on left when they released update 35 (including me).

End-game is dead, get a core team and do not EVER invite randoms.

sharquez

Anything from Schadenfreude to mild annoyance. It depends on what's going on to cause me to kick/leave.

ClowdyAllDay

Seems like your frustration tolerance is to low to suffer the burden of doing the work when the work needs to be done. How much time you spent not completing any dungeons or trials or rN. If you had stuck with any ONE of them you might have gotten something done but because people dont meet your expectations the only thing you accomplished was feeling disappointed.

So you have to know how to NOT throw out the baby with the bath water. Accept some disappointment and get something done or accept only disappointment and accomplish nothing. You might have to make that choice sometimes.

Pretty sure we have all been there at some level and have to recognize they choice that has to be made and live with the choice.

Syldras

Sakiri wrote: »

I can kill trash two man faster than that guy's entire four man group did.
Being in a bad mood is fully anticipated there.

Of course it sounds like those runs weren't exactly going well, quite the opposite, but feeling, quote, "completely shattered and drained" because of this?! Not having everything going the way one wants it to be is the normal risk of doing something with random, unknown people. Everywhere in life, by the way. Solution, in this case, would be to join a specialized guild and ask for people to join in the guild chat. Easy solution without any drama.

ClowdyAllDay

On a side note, if i'm going to kick, it will be the person who runs ahead and skips and leaves the rest of us in the dust. i have no bad feelings for kicking that person. I had a dungeon the other day where someone quit right away (rN) then there was someone who kept running ahead. that left me healer and tank and we finished the dungeon just the two of us as we couldnt get a dd from group finder. yah sure i had to work for it but thems the breaks yah know. if i dont want to be used for a dd who wants to solo his rN and screw everyone else over then i must be willing to do the work of dd and healer, which is how i devise my builds anyway, so i'm prepared for it.

Necrotech_Master

the only people i usually feel bother kicking are the ones who are awful team players (belittling in chat, rushing/speeding by themselves (and sometimes complaining about the rest of the group when they die), as well as other poor sport behaviors)

ive done a vet darkshade 1 where i was doing 75% of the dps as a tank on some of the bosses, and i still cleared, and that was still more enjoyable than dealing with a poor team player

in the case of trials, i would never join a pug vet trial, i usually only do those with a guild where i know like at least 2/3 of the people there lol, ill pug normal trials occasionally though

Azphira

Did you not know that if you don't wait for the tank you do more damage on the parse than the other DPS in the group?

Billium813

I often Tank main vet dungeons. If the DPS is low, MOST of the time I'll struggle through with it as long as the DPS aren't dying repeatedly and I know that we will be able to pass the bosses. If DPS are just constantly dropping, the Healer is DPS and dropping, I'll say in chat that DPS is too low for this dungeon and I'll leave. I'v literally had 2 300CP DPS both with Sword/Shield LAing. It's painful, but it depends if I feel like they are trolling or just bad.

I typically reserve vote kicking for the real toxic group members. The ones that insult group members or are literally not contributing and refuse to leave. I have a disdain for DPS that run ahead too, but if they start doing that, I typically just stop taunting and let them do whatever. I'll usually cheer them on in chat sarcastically too. If they die, I won't rez them and will rez everyone else instead. If they can solo the whole dungeon, then they'll just take longer with me not helping or rezing the other roles that drop.

Destai

If I get to the point where I'm leaving or kicking someone, I'm usually relieved after it's done. I generally leave or kick if someone's got a bad attitude or the group isn't viable. I'll be patient in normal randoms, usually I'm on a toon who can carry the group if needed. But if I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall or people don't wanna listen, I'm not wasting my time.

valenwood_vegan

When doing group stuff, I play with friends and guildies and don't get into any of this drama.

I'm not saying that's the perfect solution or will always be an option but it works for me.

Sakiri

Syldras wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I can kill trash two man faster than that guy's entire four man group did.
Being in a bad mood is fully anticipated there.

Of course it sounds like those runs weren't exactly going well, quite the opposite, but feeling, quote, "completely shattered and drained" because of this?! Not having everything going the way one wants it to be is the normal risk of doing something with random, unknown people. Everywhere in life, by the way. Solution, in this case, would be to join a specialized guild and ask for people to join in the guild chat. Easy solution without any drama.

I would too after several hours of that nonsense. I'm an emotional person though. I dislike wasting my time as well.

Syldras

Sakiri wrote: »

I would too after several hours of that nonsense. I'm an emotional person though. I dislike wasting my time as well.

And why is it not possible to stop before being an emotional wreck and having wasted hours? If I would see it's not going well after the second or third attempt, I would have tried to find a different solution. No, actually I wouldn't have joined random groups at all if I know I don't have much time and/or can't tolerate people (maybe newbies) joining who take a bit longer or don't understand mechanics quite yet. It's the nature of random groups not to know who'll join in and how skilled they are. If you want absolute security, join a guild.

ArchMikem

I was Healing Vet Dread Cellar last night cause it was the pledge and I wanted Crimson Oath pages. My first PuG was epic, most likely a pre-made that queued for a fourth. The Tank knew what they were doing and the DPS was incredible, Dungeon flew by.

Decided to run again cause I was still hoping for a chest page. Second PuG was horrible. One of the DDs taught us how to get to the secret boss, only to randomly drop group. Took a while to find a replacement. Then on the first Boss I noticed our Tank, who was under 1k CP was not right. They definitely tried, buy they had NO block mitigation and kept leading the Boss all over the place. Dude died so many times and we wiped over and over, I debated leaving, but damn my nice guy attitude I kept giving them chances. The entire run was a massive struggle. I realized on the final Boss my Healer didn't have any repair kits. We wiped so many times I was almost healing with broken gear.

Two runs, two group extremes. And I didn't even loot the page I wanted.

So no, if I leave or kick, I don't feel bad cause it's my last resort for a very good reason.

Nihilr

I don't care if I'm doing a daily or a random. If your expectation is to get an achievement, don't PUG, it's always a gamble.

If you're talking about Vet HM, dps on a non-dlc dungeon doesn't matter. If you're that impatient still, why are you PUGing? Sure it sucks that it *can* go faster, but it's selfish if you think the world should play how you play so you can get what you want.

A good fix for this would actually be scaling dungeons to co-op so players can solo for dailies but with lower quality droprates.

Edit: I say this because my husband and I play to play. We're not the worst players, we're not the best. And we can solo veteran (non-dlc) dungeons by ourselves, but it generally goes faster with 2 more players. So why not? But if it goes just as slow, we don't care. People can't learn how to play if they get kicked or can never play a full run because snobs constantly drop group.

mocap

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Everyone in the party had over 1000 CP, but the DPS was so low that it took about 2 minutes for side bosses

Afaik, 1000 CP is gaining fairly quickly this days, which produces a lot of high level players who can't actually do anything.

Sakiri

Syldras wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I would too after several hours of that nonsense. I'm an emotional person though. I dislike wasting my time as well.

And why is it not possible to stop before being an emotional wreck and having wasted hours? If I would see it's not going well after the second or third attempt, I would have tried to find a different solution. No, actually I wouldn't have joined random groups at all if I know I don't have much time and/or can't tolerate people (maybe newbies) joining who take a bit longer or don't understand mechanics quite yet. It's the nature of random groups not to know who'll join in and how skilled they are. If you want absolute security, join a guild.

It is possible to stop, but he wanted to try to do something productive and is likely stubborn so keeps trying.

Necrotech_Master

mocap wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Everyone in the party had over 1000 CP, but the DPS was so low that it took about 2 minutes for side bosses

Afaik, 1000 CP is gaining fairly quickly this days, which produces a lot of high level players who can't actually do anything.

ive also seen cp 300 players who definitely knew what they were doing, which could have been a console transfer to PC situation

Syldras

Sakiri wrote: »

It is possible to stop, but he wanted to try to do something productive and is likely stubborn so keeps trying.

Then stubbornness and not knowing when to stop might be the problem?

There was a famous quote - in Sun Tzu's "Art of War", if I remember right - about doing the same thing several times and failing, yet still continuing just the same, but expecting a different result...

UGotBenched91

I’m sorry you had a rough night but sounds like you made some other people’s nights just as rough by leaving several groups because they weren’t killing things fast enough to your liking. Which leaves them waiting aimlessly for a replacement.

Sakiri

Syldras wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

It is possible to stop, but he wanted to try to do something productive and is likely stubborn so keeps trying.

Then stubbornness and not knowing when to stop might be the problem?

There was a famous quote - in Sun Tzu's "Art of War", if I remember right - about doing the same thing several times and failing, yet still continuing just the same, but expecting a different result...

Thought that was Einstein and the definition of insanity.

Either way, I've heard it before. And I can't control other people, only myself. I personally don't have patience for randoms so I just don't do them. Too jaded after wow's elitists and.... less smart people.

Vulkunne

I feel the wind at my back and the sun on my face.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's about grouping in dungeons/trials.

Thank you for your understanding

Syldras

Sakiri wrote: »

Thought that was Einstein and the definition of insanity.
Either way, I've heard it before. And I can't control other people, only myself. I personally don't have patience for randoms so I just don't do them. Too jaded after wow's elitists and.... less smart people.

Oh, I'm quite sure there were different people throughout history who got that idea. There was definitively something like that too in a book about battle tactics in a feudal society, I'm just not sure if it was Sun Tzu or maybe Musashi's "Five Rings". It's been a while since I read both of them (roughly 20 years, to be exact). Anyway, a random group is a random group and if it's not clear by logical thinking that this means all kinds of characters and skill levels, OP found out after a few runs but still continued, ending up distraught, by their own description. It's not the fault of the group finder or of ESO though, but in my opinion the whole thing is about wrong expectations, frustration tolerance and something like stubbornness or maybe lack of flexibility, or not knowing when to stop. Things that might cause problems in all matters of life.

Nightowl_74

I only kick people if their behavior bothers the rest of the group and I start getting requests to kick, or they appear to be afk without explanation. I'm an average player and I can't normally make up for anyone else's deficiency but if its just a matter of going more slowly, that's fine. Otherwise, if the group seems to have any chance at all I'm willing to stick around and try.

Generally, if I'm doing anything with a group it's in the evening and afterward I log off and watch some tv or a movie before bed. If things aren't going well I feel a little disappointed and log off a bit early to recharge. Or occasionally I do something else by myself in-game, but not often. If they're going great, sometimes I play right up until I need to get some sleep.

AvalonRanger

What do you feel when you have to kick players or leave a group?

Of course, it's not good feeling. But sometimes we should do it for the fair playing.

Recently, I start 12 men group Trial experience. As a Healer role, I tried to save many people as possible as I can.
But other CP over 2000 Healer is totally fake. So, we wiped many times. Then I decided to leave.
No other choice at that time.

I couldn't believe that still people being fake Healer even in 12 men Trial of group finder.