Patch 1.01 and the kill 20 player quest

cdcarginub19_ESO

This is not cool one bit. There are much better ways to deal with this, this cuts down the ability to level in PVP drastically and we know your quests are great and all, but sometimes people want to level in PVP, even if it was already significantly lower, now it is almost impossible. You could make the quest multiple more kills for one day and then worth more xp than just one single one while preventing people from bailing out on raids to turn in the quest. There are many other options. This feels like a slap in the face to someone who was so excited about this, if this is a monetary change while you figure out a better system, then please tell us in the patch notes and we will be understanding, but right now, this is ridiculous. You're making us play the game exactly how you want for us to.

Aresus

If Zenimax could implement more daily quests, it would solve the problem. And it would be more fun to do, rather than just killing. (my opinion:-D)

Kamosabe

They just need to increase the amount of experience and alliance points for actual kills, and its good to go.

TheGrandAlliance

Guys I got a thread going with some ideas about changing the total structure of AP. I am also including some ideas I can find here as well.

darthbelanb14_ESO

One thing they could have done was make it so you didn't get credit for kills while lying dead on the battlefield.

TheGrandAlliance

darthbelanb14_ESO wrote: »

One thing they could have done was make it so you didn't get credit for kills while lying dead on the battlefield.

Good call. I add that to me list:)

Talk about the most EPIC AFKing EVER!:)

Daviiid_ESO

We need a more efficient way to level in PvP. Increasing the exp from player kills, captures etc. would be good, and make the xp bump bigger depending on what you're capturing (lumbermill vs. keep for example.)

I wasn't really fine with the kill 20 player quest to begin with, because it finished so quickly which resulted in constant back and forth-travelling if you wanted efficiency out of it, but it really was the only way to get some "ok" exp (in PvP).

If they make it a daily, I hope they'll oversee it and make it atleast kill 100, 250 or 500 players and scale the rewards properly.

DBHAShadow

Do the capture this point, scout this point quests not reward XP? IMO the kill one being daily is fine, if the other ones are not. It encourages people to take places and to explore the map.

wildbill63b16_ESO

My biggest fear is that this is just a portent of things to come, will PvP take second place to PvE like with AoC and LoTRO ? This game is probably closer to AoC than any other game I`ve played since. They have however done many things better imo, the PvP area for one so that PvE players don`t get ganked just doing quests. That said LoTRO went that route, I and some others only played the PvP there for the most part, and it was fun....for about 6 months then lack of support killed it. AoC never did get the Keep/Siege PvP (the main reason I played it for 3 years) working properly, it was always laggy and prone to just plain crashing or bogging down till unplayable. This however runs mostly very good and is heaps of fun, if the devs don`t break it trying to make it play second to PvE.
Why fix something that wasn`t really broken, unless it was causing problems with the server? If a raid leader doesn`t like people who are focused on leveling kick them, same with afk leechers. (this game is gonna sort the wanna be raid leaders from the competent ones really, really, fast) If the problem was server load from all the turns ins that is a simple fix, if the idea is penalize PvP oriented players, why?

gregcosta1995b14_ESO

omg pvp is going to be boring please make this a repeatable but for less reward

illipthgore

THE ONLY THING THAT NEEDED LOOKING AT WAS THE AP GAINS IN THE BOUNTIES RIGHT AWAY,

THERE WAS NO REASON TO CHANGE ANYTHING ELSE AND THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE DONE SUCH A OVER THE TOP FIX IS RECKLESS.

sorry had to be done.

opps missed edit,
anyway this has been a known issue for some time the fact they left the quest active says 2 things, they forgot about it or they don't seem to think it matters if the first group of players gets an over the top advantage to the knew comers on launch day because based on the numbers theres no way anyone not having acess to that bounty quest is going to have a chance and a lot of people will be put of by that esp as PvP tends to be quite competitive in nature.

Secondly what does it say to me about how they treat their PvP community esp with the lack of any real dialogue with us about what they are thinking and how changes are going to look in the near future, keeping us up to date is one way of cutting down on uninformed speculation and drama posts and put minds at ease.

A lot of people seem to get upset when they feel that all their hard work/time is being wasted.

fullstonmrwb17_ESO

Stop crying, you could PvP in DAOC below 50 but it was very deadly. Most people waiting till 50 to begin 'big boy RvR'.

Anyone who will quit due to this change wasn't going to stay long anyway...

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Many more and more dynamics PvP Quest PLEASE!!!!!!

Hunterkiss

It encourages people to do quests, dungeons, and the PvE part of the game. You still get to do this daily which seems like a good balance. & what floydmurphy.kg_ESO said

babanovac

Hunterkiss wrote: »

It encourages people to do quests, dungeons, and the PvE part of the game. You still get to do this daily which seems like a good balance. & what floydmurphy.kg_ESO said

Some people do not want to do quests, dungeons and the PvE part of the game. Some people bought this game because it was advertised that you could level through PvP. That you could play however you want.

Fenris_Silverfang

It should be changed again really.
Isnt the point of a good pvp system to make it lucrative for both newer and veteran players alike?... If theres no way to level up noones gonna touch it till way later and that ruins it completely in my opinion.
There should really be proper xp gain through pvp and the quest did exactly that.
If it was nerfed because of AP or gold gain fine but at least give us something to work with to level up proper that way too.

Godspeed

They should remove ap gain from the quest and make it repeatable again so leveling in pvp is still possible.

illipthgore

fullstonmrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Stop crying, you could PvP in DAOC below 50 but it was very deadly. Most people waiting till 50 to begin 'big boy RvR'.

Anyone who will quit due to this change wasn't going to stay long anyway...

lol how long didn't you play ? they had a 30 BG within the year to help with that and not long after they had BGs every 5 lvls and it was very popular, infact leirvik for along time had more ppl than all the others combined it was quick to lvl and a lot of ppl actually turned off their XP gains so they could stay until they ranked up RVR points.
although DAoC was the hardest game to solo in the mobs very brutal until 15-20 when players started getting good skills/abilitys

dread67

We see this in all the pvp games. Farmers will figure out a way to work the system and ruin things for the rest of us.

Increase he reward for taking a keep suddenly no one defends. Give some xp to some one who died in the fight so they will be willing to risk charging, just stay dead.

Fenris_Silverfang

Its not to hard to fix really , you could just make it so instead of needing a quest every so and so many kills or assists you get a small exp boost and eventually some money. That would also eliminate the need to go back to the bounty board so people would stay on the frontlines and keep fighting.
Additionally you could extend that for guards as well. (just an idea)

Lets say in order to get a exp boost like from the quest you have to assist or kill in 100 cases, whereas a player would count for 2 , a elite Guard for 1
(or just leave the guards out and make it player kills only.)
People voiced concerns over people staying dead so:
1.Reduce the radius so people cant just afk in the starting base
2.Make it not count for people that are dead (or only 15-30 seconds after death max)

I think that could work and would make it a more fun experience, but thats just an idea.

LadyChaos

dread67 wrote: »

We see this in all the pvp games. Farmers will figure out a way to work the system and ruin things for the rest of us.

Increase he reward for taking a keep suddenly no one defends. Give some xp to some one who died in the fight so they will be willing to risk charging, just stay dead.

This is exactly the point of keeping PvP with the least amount of "unnecessary" external rewards that don't pertain to PvP. ... no need to make lots of gold in PvP, it has it's own coin system, so keeps gold farmers out, no need for major XP as PvP should be about the campaign and end game content (RvR aspect at least), I'm not really even a fan of small quests in PvP... anything that distracts PUGs and guilds alike from having the single goal of getting those keeps, crowing an emp for the campaign buffs, getting the scrolls... and of course smiting our unworthy enemies is defiantly important, but not as much as the others.

IMO if it does not lend to PvP enhancement, keep it out. Make the PvP lines level faster in campaigns vs PvE, make xp bonus every soo many ranks earned in the alliance... they should all be focused on PvP rewards. Keep PvP about the big goal, and keeps it more fun. Every change that adds rewards not for PvP gives non-PvPers reason to exploit it and ruin our PvP as a group.

Mobius0

LadyChaos wrote: »

dread67 wrote: »

We see this in all the pvp games. Farmers will figure out a way to work the system and ruin things for the rest of us.

Increase he reward for taking a keep suddenly no one defends. Give some xp to some one who died in the fight so they will be willing to risk charging, just stay dead.

This is exactly the point of keeping PvP with the least amount of "unnecessary" external rewards that don't pertain to PvP. ... no need to make lots of gold in PvP, it has it's own coin system, so keeps gold farmers out, no need for major XP as PvP should be about the campaign and end game content (RvR aspect at least), I'm not really even a fan of small quests in PvP... anything that distracts PUGs and guilds alike from having the single goal of getting those keeps, crowing an emp for the campaign buffs, getting the scrolls... and of course smiting our unworthy enemies is defiantly important, but not as much as the others.

IMO if it does not lend to PvP enhancement, keep it out. Make the PvP lines level faster in campaigns vs PvE, make xp bonus every soo many ranks earned in the alliance... they should all be focused on PvP rewards. Keep PvP about the big goal, and keeps it more fun. Every change that adds rewards not for PvP gives non-PvPers reason to exploit it and ruin our PvP as a group.

The reality, is without decent rewards, you will see less people attacking those keeps and scrolls. In the end, the little distraction you will see from quests (which many people have suggested ways to fix, myself included.), does not compare to the amount of people that will leave PvP entirely, in order to earn gold and XP.

My friend and I did PvE quests all night last night, for example, when we would have otherwise been assisting our faction taking keeps. So if getting more people to focus on keeps/scrolls, I assure you, this change is not helping.

Rainingblood

I'd be fine with taking the xp out of it completely and ramping up the AP reward.

Xp is easy to come by, and people are kidding themselves if they think the devs want people leveling solely through PvP in their game. Because that's not the design.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Visur wrote: »

Revised the quest to kill 20 players in Cyrodiil to make it a daily quest, rather than repeatable.

It's a nice April fool for a patch note the April 1…
Why changing this quest ? It's a nice reward for killing people, not just fighting again wood or npc.

Because people were exploiting the hell out of the xp gain to get 50 very quickly.

babanovac

Rainingblood wrote: »

I'd be fine with taking the xp out of it completely and ramping up the AP reward.

Xp is easy to come by, and people are kidding themselves if they think the devs want people leveling solely through PvP in their game. Because that's not the design.

We are not "kidding ourselves". This is how the game was sold to us - with the possibility to play solely through PvP. We did not imagine this. ZOS stated this about their game. So we game them our money.

So, i'm sorry, but you are wrong. The design of the game is that so you can level through PvP.

At the current state of the game, this possibility is missing altogether.

Yes, the repeatable quest was stupid and bugged. But it was the ONLY thing that made leveling through PvP viable.

Don't bring the quest back. But give us a mechanic through which we can play the way we want, as ZOS stated so many times - leveling through PvP.

mcatchlovb16_ESO

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Because people were exploiting the hell out of the xp gain to get 50 very quickly.

You obviously haven't read the thread. Why even post if you have no idea what you are talking about

ragamerb16_ESO

Sigh... Ppl missing the point. The numerics are irrelevant and the sad thing is that the "fix" is not addressing the core reassons of the problem, which are multiple:

- Community. On Beta you sold to PvP Testers the idea that the "Real PvP" started at 50... Some things and some setups for testing aren't really meant to be "tossed" outside private, small group of testers. The 50 PvP test, sadly, planted the "Rush to 50 by any means" seed on a good bunch of PvPers. Not easy solutions because the damage is already done... Devs need to realize the different kind of PvPers that are lured to ESO, and decide if they really want to have competitive PvP or just a "grind to gank" clone that will repeat the same path of mistakes most PvP MMOs have done, were "PvP progression" is sold to the players.

- Raid-wide credit. Always a bad mechanic and, nothing fixed still. Most PvP rewarding systems die by simple details. Concentrate less on the numerics of XP per hour and more on what you want the player to do for getting them. Encouraging AFK farming because of this, still unsolved problem, will ensure this massive exploit we have seen in early access will repeat itself again.

- Campaign Activity Thresholds. The initial list of "Emperors" is a real shame, imo. I hope that Devs have already taken notes on why the majority of Emperors came from deserted campaigns and the role the exploit now closed, took in all this because the other reasson on why this happened is still pending. The current state of campaigns, I'm afraid, can be already be to late to recover... Forcing ppl that want to play in an strategically challenging scenario to suffer the queues of Campaigns full of players... A mechanism that takes into account global activity to control the ammount of time needed to achieve domination needs to be in place, or you will keep on encouraging what did happen in this 1st set of Campaigns... Small groups of coordinated PvPers to rush into deserted campaigns to achieve Emperorship fast.

illipthgore

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

Sigh... Ppl missing the point. The numerics are irrelevant and the sad thing is that the "fix" is not addressing the core reassons of the problem, which are multiple:

- Community. On Beta you sold to PvP Testers the idea that the "Real PvP" started at 50... Some things and some setups for testing aren't really meant to be "tossed" outside private, small group of testers. The 50 PvP test, sadly, planted the "Rush to 50 by any means" seed on a good bunch of PvPers. Not easy solutions because the damage is already done... Devs need to realize the different kind of PvPers that are lured to ESO, and decide if they really want to have competitive PvP or just a "grind to gank" clone that will repeat the same path of mistakes most PvP MMOs have done, were "PvP progression" is sold to the players.

- Raid-wide credit. Always a bad mechanic and, nothing fixed still. Most PvP rewarding systems die by simple details. Concentrate less on the numerics of XP per hour and more on what you want the player to do for getting them. Encouraging AFK farming because of this, still unsolved problem, will ensure this massive exploit we have seen in early access will repeat itself again.

- Campaign Activity Thresholds. The initial list of "Emperors" is a real shame, imo. I hope that Devs have already taken notes on why the majority of Emperors came from deserted campaigns and the role the exploit now closed, took in all this because the other reasson on why this happened is still pending. The current state of campaigns, I'm afraid, can be already be to late to recover... Forcing ppl that want to play in an strategically challenging scenario to suffer the queues of Campaigns full of players... A mechanism that takes into account global activity to control the ammount of time needed to achieve domination needs to be in place, or you will keep on encouraging what did happen in this 1st set of Campaigns... Small groups of coordinated PvPers to rush into deserted campaigns to achieve Emperorship fast.

EXACTLY

LadyChaos

Mobius0 wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

dread67 wrote: »

We see this in all the pvp games. Farmers will figure out a way to work the system and ruin things for the rest of us.

Increase he reward for taking a keep suddenly no one defends. Give some xp to some one who died in the fight so they will be willing to risk charging, just stay dead.

This is exactly the point of keeping PvP with the least amount of "unnecessary" external rewards that don't pertain to PvP. ... no need to make lots of gold in PvP, it has it's own coin system, so keeps gold farmers out, no need for major XP as PvP should be about the campaign and end game content (RvR aspect at least), I'm not really even a fan of small quests in PvP... anything that distracts PUGs and guilds alike from having the single goal of getting those keeps, crowing an emp for the campaign buffs, getting the scrolls... and of course smiting our unworthy enemies is defiantly important, but not as much as the others.

IMO if it does not lend to PvP enhancement, keep it out. Make the PvP lines level faster in campaigns vs PvE, make xp bonus every soo many ranks earned in the alliance... they should all be focused on PvP rewards. Keep PvP about the big goal, and keeps it more fun. Every change that adds rewards not for PvP gives non-PvPers reason to exploit it and ruin our PvP as a group.

The reality, is without decent rewards, you will see less people attacking those keeps and scrolls. In the end, the little distraction you will see from quests (which many people have suggested ways to fix, myself included.), does not compare to the amount of people that will leave PvP entirely, in order to earn gold and XP.

My friend and I did PvE quests all night last night, for example, when we would have otherwise been assisting our faction taking keeps. So if getting more people to focus on keeps/scrolls, I assure you, this change is not helping.

They might leave to level, to gold farm, to get the other 300+ skill points available in the game, not readily accessible in cyrrodil, but then when they are max level they come back with more Skill points, money and equipment. Once servers balanced and game been out a while those PvP seats are wasted on the guys using it to farm xp/gold.

PvP shouldn't be full of lvl 10 players thinking its a free ride to 50. PvP people love to PvP. If there were no rewards but a title a faction bragging right and custom looking gear we would still do it... the trick is making it more fun for the PvP people and less of a freeloader hub for those looking to farm xp or gold. Why is someone in PvP if they want PvE only rewards?

itsmalarky

is this quest something you get by just killing 20 people? or does someone give it to you? I bypassed the first intro quest to Cyrodil (had friends showing me the ropeS) but if it opens up a more legitimate quest, I'd do it in a heartbeat.