Patch 1.01 and the kill 20 player quest

elinos

floydmurphy.kg_ESO wrote: »

People, you don't do PvP to do the same quest over and over again and exploit 20 kills to get XP and AP (at least I don't but I've only been playing MMOs for 20 years). You are supposed to enjoy the structure and process within that PvP system, not just the little quests that are in reality just "bonuses."

Ok, what part of alternate playstyle is so hard to understand? Getting exp in pvp is not an exploit. It is precisely because we enjoy pvp that we want to level by doing mostly pvp. How would you like it if quest exp was removed tomorrow leaving you with only kill exp and money rewards? I mean it's not about rewards, is it? You'd still enjoy pve, right?

Chingowey

The problem with the PvP system in regards to leveling is that we have very little options to gain exp. Taking keeps, taking resources, killing players all seem to give no exp (or such a minuscule amount I cannot tell). This repeatable quest was the only viable way to level, and it was quite broken with the amount of alliance points given. As far as the exp reward goes, I saw about 4 different players who were Veteran Rank 1 last night and one of them told me he leveled solely from this quest. Keep it repeatable, just tweak the rewards. We should still be able to level via PvP if we wish to.

Eka

This seems to be a very shortsighted change, one that has universally upset just about everyone.

What really makes no sense to me, is that ZOS was talking about right before launch, on ways to make this actual quest "easier" for players to repeat rather than travel all the way back to turn them in (adding quest npc's to keeps). Now this comes out and it actually makes it harder for the player base that likes pvp to actually level up. The XP payouts from beta were already lowered prior to launch, why make it even less xp rewarding to pvp?

Some of us really dont enjoy pve very much, is there not a place for us at the eso table too?

TheNerevar

I hope you guys either consider raising the AP gained from this quest, or lower the AP needed to purchase armor/weps/siege. the weapons and armor need not lowered as much as the siege equip, but the unidentified object system with weps and armor is broken, esp for the weapons. as a 2hander at lvl 50 im really expected to take my chance at either a staff,bow, mace, sword, or axe? why not let me choose which one of those I want instead of getting a mystery box that I am paying for? My making this a daily instead of repeatable siege is going to be increasingly hard to purchase, meaning sieges and fulfilling the other missions will become harder to accomplish. Need to do some serious reconsideration with this one, if you're going to make this a daily, other numbers need to be changed be it AP costs of other items, or all around AP gain increases.

RoyalPain

This will drastically effect the player base.... Some people level off of PVP to 50 making this nearly impossible will cause said players to go somewhere else.... In a pay to play game, this wasn't very smart when we havent even started paying yet other than buying the game early to play for 5 days in advance... Not Smart at all...

Thrillaa

Needs to be turned back on , increase it to say 30-40 ,really liked the idea to put the quest giver at the keep that would be pretty cool !

BolideTV

Look, PvP should not level you as fast as PvE. In PvP you get AP, XP, and gold for completing objectives where as in PvE you only get XP and gold. In short, your total gain for each play style is equivalent, but more spread out over different type of gains in PvP vs PvE.

xhrit

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

Prediction; Without the carrot players will only see the stick, humans are like that. Players will be less willing to PvP and Cyrodill will slowly be abandoned, oh not today, not this week, but eventually. Maybe we'll see it return to it's former glory when there are sufficient players at level 50 to fill each side but even then the excitement of "the Lotto" will be no more.

No, you are not seeing the big picture. If people are only pvping for exp and loot, what happens when everyone hits level cap, and has full 'best in slot' gearsets? There is literally no reason for them to play at that point if they are only playing for the rewards.

Phaade

The finest aspect of MMO is that one must work very hard, do the legwork, to have a very strong character...and it shows on the battlefield. This is not Ghost Recon or Call of Duty guys...it's an MMO where character progression is king (and yes, I am a die hard pvp'r, but I am gearing out before I spend a lot of time in PvP). Zenimax has stated all along that while you can level in PvP, it will be less advantageous than leveling in PvE...this change supports the position they have held since long before launch.

When everyone actually is level 50 this whole thread will LOL...

Good Hunting!

Phaade

morashtakb16_ESO

xhrit wrote: »

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

Maybe we'll see it return to it's former glory when there are sufficient players at level 50 to fill each side but even then the excitement of "the Lotto" will be no more.

No, you are not seeing the big picture.

Left that last sentence for your re-reading pleasure.

Best in gear sets completion-ists will lead to their own problems but here's hoping that day is a long way off.

mcatchlovb16_ESO

Death sentence for PVP. XP in PVP should be equal to PVE. I should be able to lvl in pvp if I want to instead of playing the pve content.

Armyoftronb14a_ESO

Even if they reduced the XP and alliance points on this to a paltry amount, keeping it a repeateable quest, I would still do it. Because having a quest to kill 20 players, and getting the pop-ups when you poured hot oil onto a group or something was...... FUN. Now I only have the option to mindlessly zerg, or... PVE in cyrodill after I complete the kill players in a pvp zone quest ONE TIME EACH DAY. Terrible "fix". Taking away frequency of pvp quests to kill players in a pvp area? Not cool. Even if I recieved a minimal amount for it, was still fun to kill 20 players, go turn in at bounty board, pick it up again, and go out to slay 20 more. Allowed me to feel like I accomplished something and I didn't HAVE to sit and zerg defend keeps, or Zerg assault keeps, I could wander around, go commando, pick off stragglers. While I can STILL do that, something will be missing from it.

Lee

xhrit wrote: »

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

Prediction; Without the carrot players will only see the stick, humans are like that. Players will be less willing to PvP and Cyrodill will slowly be abandoned, oh not today, not this week, but eventually. Maybe we'll see it return to it's former glory when there are sufficient players at level 50 to fill each side but even then the excitement of "the Lotto" will be no more.

No, you are not seeing the big picture. If people are only pvping for exp and loot, what happens when everyone hits level cap, and has full 'best in slot' gearsets? There is literally no reason for them to play at that point if they are only playing for the rewards.

You should really read what he writes before you talk about the big picture. I bought this game exclusively to PvP, I had no to little interest in PvE, but why would I not PvE when I can level to 50 before I can even scrape late 20's in PvP. This is an MMO, I hear character progression is a big thing.

RoyalPain

I was didn't mind the fact that I wasn't leveling fast, I was still leveling.... I accepted that the exp wasn't as good but was still kind of there.... Id like to continue to pvp my way to 50 just not sure if thats even viable now.... is it ???1

sean.peterson08nub18_ESO

On top of the leveling rant, there is the option of gaining AP points to repair Keeps, doors, buying Siege equipment. With very few ways of gaining points, being able to defend/attack Keeps is going to be few and far inbetween.

Mange

Freak wrote: »

yeah this sucks. if going to make it a daily at least also add kill 50 kill 100 or something. XP Is hard to come by in pvp as is, that quest was only thing saving it

This, it needs to be a much higher number as a daily I'm sure it's not difficult to get 100 pvp kills a day the system works. Up it to that and give a 5k prestige award and I'm satisfied.

I really hope the community agrees and stresses this point asap, nerfing this quest into a *** daily was a terrible idea.

Felarrond

Killing 20 people literally took like 5 minutes if you get into a raid group out there. Imagine repeatedly grinding that quest? People were exploiting it so they changed it, pure and simple. It's to be expected.

Though it might be nice to see it as a tiered daily like was suggested. "Kill 20" "Kill 50" "Kill 100" etc. maybe with a small normal xp reward, and more PvP related rewards + Gear.

Catches_the_Sun

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

xhrit wrote: »

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

Prediction; Without the carrot players will only see the stick, humans are like that. Players will be less willing to PvP and Cyrodill will slowly be abandoned, oh not today, not this week, but eventually.

I will take that bet. 90% of the player population has yet to even experience PvP anyway...this "carrot" will not be missed & shouldn't be the "carrot" that is intended to be chased anyway. Imagine when the campaigns are actually full of players, which is what will happen in about 2-3 weeks or so. Do you really want players running back to turn in/pick up quests after every keep battle, or would you rather have them out taking more keeps, resources & scrolls? I no what my answer is. If the rewards for taking those keeps/resources are too low, then that's an issue that needs to be addressed, but not by adding repeatable quests.

Vlas

Pang wrote: »

Some were probably using it to exploit the system and gain an unfair amount of AP or EXP.

Dude, we totally need that AP... I mean seriously. It costs SOOOOOO much to repair a wall, let alone buy siege.

I dont understand this at all.

elinos

bjeardoeb14_ESO wrote: »

Killing 20 people literally took like 5 minutes if you get into a raid group out there. Imagine repeatedly grinding that quest? People were exploiting it so they changed it, pure and simple. It's to be expected.

Though it might be nice to see it as a tiered daily like was suggested. "Kill 20" "Kill 50" "Kill 100" etc. maybe with a small normal xp reward, and more PvP related rewards + Gear.

It's not an exploit to power grind. People power grinded to 50 in pve on the first day. Do you see them changing exp rates there? Of course not, cause that would take an entire pve overhaul as opposed to one quest. Except why punish everyone for the actions of a few power grinders? There will always be such players, no matter what you do.

Zythos

Bottom line is this quest needs to be repeatable.

If this change is going to be made, the campaigns should be reset on 4/4 or the change implemented after the current campaign ends.

Not only does it give no hope to anyone seeking to reach Emperor that switched campaigns because one was overflowing with your Alliance. This is the biggest problem I see, as anyone attempting to catch up now has almost no hope, unless the top people all stop playing. some are 250-300k Alliance Points and it'd be impossible to reach, let allow pass that with this being a daily quest. It's just extremely unwise to change something so impactful to the game once it's in use for multiple days. This quest wasn't a bug, it was working as intended for the beta weekends, PTS and Live, a sudden change is unwarranted and unwise.

It also restricts the resources to repair, provide siege equipment and buy new equipment from the vendors. I have no want to buy siege equipment or help repair as the rewards for doing so are so minor to the cost, when I could upgrade equipment.

Unfortunately, any tweaking to it will upset someone in community that didn't get to use it like everyone else has. It's caused afk'ers and suiciders, but at least they come back. Making it 40 or even 1000 wouldn't make no difference, cause the rewards would still scale and people would just suicide less often. It's bad enough they took /stuck out of Cyrodiil where I've been legitimately stuck twice already, thank goodness you can teleport to another campaign then back to yours as a workaround.

I've been a huge advocate for TESO and got all my friends to play, and even with this seeming not so groundbreaking to the game, it's the wrong time to do the change.

And of course, though it's minor impact, I'm strongly considering canceling my Imperial Edition, especially one that is so gamebreaking to me. A game I've been waiting so long for since announcement, especially being a player of DAoC and WAR for many years.

BolideTV

elinos wrote: »

It's not an exploit to power grind. People power grinded to 50 in pve on the first day. Do you see them changing exp rates there? Of course not, cause that would take an entire pve overhaul as opposed to one quest. Except why punish everyone for the actions of a few power grinders? There will always be such players, no matter what you do.

Ah, see here's the difference... Grinding mobs with AoE is very different than grinding a quest that rewards a fair amount of xp while getting the xp from killing players.

elinos

BolideTV wrote: »

elinos wrote: »

It's not an exploit to power grind. People power grinded to 50 in pve on the first day. Do you see them changing exp rates there? Of course not, cause that would take an entire pve overhaul as opposed to one quest. Except why punish everyone for the actions of a few power grinders? There will always be such players, no matter what you do.

Ah, see here's the difference... Grinding mobs with AoE is very different than grinding a quest that rewards a fair amount of xp while getting the xp from killing players.

You're right, the first is a steady reliable way to level while the second is a situational reward for which you have to be at the right place at the right time, making it much harder to successfully "exploit".

Samadhi

Armyoftronb14a_ESO wrote: »

Even if they reduced the XP and alliance points on this to a paltry amount, keeping it a repeateable quest, I would still do it. Because having a quest to kill 20 players, and getting the pop-ups when you poured hot oil onto a group or something was...... FUN. ...

So much this.
Without this quest being active there is no real way to know whether you are killing or even damaging people in a large scale group without having to employ an add on of some form.

JustinCase

Zos! I have been a beta tester since August of last year and since then I have seen incredible fixes to the game, but that does not make up for how much you have taken from this game. IF YOU CONTINUE to take you wont have ANYONE wanting to pay to play this game. You keep saying that PvP is important to this game but once again you take from the PvP'ers. This has to stop!!! seriously, stop!

NordJitsu

If they're going to do this, it needs to be 20 players that you ACTUALLY kill. Not just being near group mates doing the killing.

And then the AP reward needs to be like quadrupled.

Lee

NordJitsu wrote: »

If they're going to do this, it needs to be 20 players that you ACTUALLY kill. Not just being near group mates doing the killing.

And then the AP reward needs to be like quadrupled.

Well that's a huge insult to healers.

Sureshawt

This is a deal breaker for me. I was having a blast leveling through PvP. If we can no longer progress our characters at a rate similar to PvE then I will be seeking a refund.

I'm sure the players mindlessly farming public dungeon bosses will still have their progression rate.

No more great swords or fireballs shoved up my arse by devs and their knee jerk reactions because my chosen play-style.

Lee

I don't mind that this was changed, however, It does disturb me how the changed happened. If the EXP was too much, lower it. If the AP was the cause, lower it or get rid of it all together. If it was due to people getting 20 kills and suiciding, going back rinse and repeat, increase the kill count or make it scale. I understand the situation, damned if you do, damned if you dont. But I'm confused how this got through the beta in the state it was in and the damage that has already been done. Again, I'm extremely concerned how easily changed this was, do you not care about PvP? These types of knee jerk reactions that happen without any care in the world are less appreciated when you're also asking for $15 a month.

My 2c for what it's worth.

NordJitsu

Lee wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

If they're going to do this, it needs to be 20 players that you ACTUALLY kill. Not just being near group mates doing the killing.

And then the AP reward needs to be like quadrupled.

Well that's a huge insult to healers.

Nah. They get credit based on who they heal. So if you heal an ally who kills someone, you should get credit.