ZOS plans concerning BALL GROUPS?

Four_Fingers

Sorry I play on PC/PS NA, but I can't believe EU would be different as EGOs drive the rivalries.
You should see the hate mail between groups. lol
Last time I played PvP on EU it was completely dominated by EP, all maps were red so the probably can't fight each other.

Tommy_The_Gun

It was mentioned here and in many other threads that the best & simple way to adjust ball groups would be to limit heal over time from same source to like 2 or 3. Because that is what makes ball groups so much more powerful than anything else. They scale geometrically.

Think of it. There is this screenshot floating around of ball group having like 11 Vigors & Radiant Regeneration all stacked. That is what makes them broken. Having the ability to literally ignore siege engines designed specifically to counter large amounts of stacked players. They don't need to play and move strategically. They can just run around in circles (and quite literally they do).

Every playstyle has its place and is a part of the game. I am not saying to remove the ball groups. No. I am just saying that they need a serious adjustment. Every playstyle that was overperforming was nerfed in the past at some point. But ball groups were only receiving passive buffs. It is the meta most powerful playstyle that exists - so much so that "a ball group" is unable to fight other "ball group". That is why you very rarely see it happening. Because both groups know that for the most part they will just waste each other's time and no one will die. So they just spend time on fighting randoms - cuz it is easier.

What is also important to know that if one playstyle is dominating over others in terms of effectiveness, ease of use, risk vs reward - then it is very disruptive for other playstyles.

Four_Fingers

Using your brain is what dominates.
Being lazy and not working for it is what loses.
You can reduce us to training swords and we will still usually win.

AstroST

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Using your brain is what dominates.
Being lazy and not working for it is what loses.
You can reduce us to training swords and we will still usually win.

Using one brain to search for the most broken mechanic in the game is what dominates.
Ball groupers without heal/shield stacking would be just average to bad players.

And who is lazy? Someone that base all of his playstile on a broken mechanic to endlessy kill pugs that don't know nothing about pvp or someone that try to improve and look for interesting fights?

Le't be honest, no real pvper with some degree of knowledge fights you, only people that really don't know nothing about pvp, if you think that makes you great players, well, just think it. My opinion is different but anyone is of course entitled of having a different one.

BXR_Lonestar

AstroST wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Its a multiplayer game. There's nothing wrong with people playing the game as a group - AS INTENDED.

People who complain about ball groups simply don't understand the difficulty it takes to coordinate with 11 other parties - and to find players who are unselfish enough to wear sets that are all about group synergy rather than individual combat effectiveness. If you're having a problem with a ball group and you don't have the numbers to take them on - simply go where they're not.

So you say that following a crown and just spamming aoe and smart heals all the time is very difficult.
A ball group to be good just need one person to be good, the one that tell everyone what to wear and what to do.
I have tried it a couple of times and was so mind numbing boring that I lost every interest very fast because you are not someone that have to think, you just need to do what you are told to do, like a bot.

You've clearly never tried to play in a ballgroup at a high level... That is very much generalizing group play as a zerg. A ball group is an entirely different thing. You coordinate everything, down to classes, sets, etc. to maximize group buffs. Sure, you do stack heals and AOE's, but often times, you are trying to move as one single unit, staying w/in 5m or less of eachother, and your trying to coordinate the timing of your abilities to maximize impact, such as coordinated ultidrops, activating synergies, etc. You try to lure/pull other players into tight quarters engagements to maximize these effects.

You should really try it before you knock it, just so you can at least appreciate how hard it is to do this playstyle and do it well. It actually takes a high degree of skill and coordination, which is what distinguishes a "ball group" from your ordinary zerg, which is just a large group of players following eachother around, but there's typically minimal amount of coordination. Those groups are much easier to fight (not easy, just easier!), even with a smaller group if you know good tactics.

And even if you don't find the playstyle engaging, that doesn't mean it should be eliminated. Some people don't like to heal. Others don't like to tank. Players like me don't necessarily like to play DPS. Doesn't mean those other playstyles should be eliminated because *I* don't like them. Other players do. So learn the tactics, learn the counters, and if you don't have the numbers or ability to take them on, then go where they're not. Its not that difficult dude.

Four_Fingers

We do not use broken mechanics only what the game provides us to be used which anybody can use.
And contrary to popular opinion we only usually use 2 good healers as just like a trial group we balance DD, Tanks and healers.
I am not saying that there are not some groups that run pug but in a good "ball" group we are usually all guild members who play together all the time.
Please stop trying to paint us all as exploiters it weakens your arguments.
Anyway it is ZOS's game and we will continue to play it as they intend.
It is a shame you don't play on NA PS so I could invite you to our guild and play with us so you might learn
where you are mistaken and might even enjoy it.
Peace, enough said.

Loooree

I want everyone complaining about HoT stacking to make their own group, get 12 vigors/12 RRs and try to survive more than 20 people + constant siege and then tell me this is so easy. The amount of effort it takes you need to put not only during the raid but also before the raid itself is huge.. or at least bigger than getting your solo setup ready.

Just make your own group please. It will be more fun for everyone around.
Oh and the fact that you don't see ball group vs ball group doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You just don't see it.

Marcus684

Loooree wrote: »

I want everyone complaining about HoT stacking to make their own group, get 12 vigors/12 RRs and try to survive more than 20 people + constant siege and then tell me this is so easy. The amount of effort it takes you need to put not only during the raid but also before the raid itself is huge.. or at least bigger than getting your solo setup ready.

Just make your own group please. It will be more fun for everyone around.
Oh and the fact that you don't see ball group vs ball group doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You just don't see it.

I've seen ball groups actively avoid each other way more than fight each other. Time and time again an AD or EP ball group will PvDoor Glade/Ray/Warden OFD and once they get inside and start on the IFD, a ball group from the other faction will run in and immediately head for a corner tower and just hang out there picking off DC trying to fight the PvDoor group. Sometimes they'll remain there until the end of the battle and fight to the last but most times once the siege is over, they'll jump off the walls and disappear.

While I'm sure it's fun for them and they get plenty of AP farming the solo DC trying to defend the keep, they're not playing the alliance war and all they're really doing is making the lag at these battles worse.

AstroST

Four_Fingers wrote: »

We do not use broken mechanics only what the game provides us to be used which anybody can use.

You should try to understand better what a "broken mechanics" is.
No one is accusing ball groupers to use exploit or glitches.

A broken mechanic is a mechanic that alone change the balance of a game.
Let's just say that they introduce in chess a new piece that can capture all pieces around him with a single move, do you think that people that love chess would agree?

For PvP is the same thing, a lot of pvpers don't like mechanics that alone alllows of an entire playstyle to be overpowered.

DrNukenstein

Broken mechanic?

Like freezing time when you show up while your blob queues up a bunch of aoes and hots?

Loooree

Marcus684 wrote: »

Loooree wrote: »

I want everyone complaining about HoT stacking to make their own group, get 12 vigors/12 RRs and try to survive more than 20 people + constant siege and then tell me this is so easy. The amount of effort it takes you need to put not only during the raid but also before the raid itself is huge.. or at least bigger than getting your solo setup ready.

Just make your own group please. It will be more fun for everyone around.
Oh and the fact that you don't see ball group vs ball group doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You just don't see it.

I've seen ball groups actively avoid each other way more than fight each other. Time and time again an AD or EP ball group will PvDoor Glade/Ray/Warden OFD and once they get inside and start on the IFD, a ball group from the other faction will run in and immediately head for a corner tower and just hang out there picking off DC trying to fight the PvDoor group. Sometimes they'll remain there until the end of the battle and fight to the last but most times once the siege is over, they'll jump off the walls and disappear.

While I'm sure it's fun for them and they get plenty of AP farming the solo DC trying to defend the keep, they're not playing the alliance war and all they're really doing is making the lag at these battles worse.

Can you give a clip of such behaviour or name a guild who does that? Ball groups from different alliance teaming up just to farm.. zerg is not something that you see more than once a year lol. Teaming up to open the door is alright tho since siege is so broken and attacking anything is always annoying.

They're not playing the alliance war? 12 people keeping 30-40 enemies inside a keep is not playing the alliance war? Taking scrolls and farming 30-40 people following is not playing the alliance war?

Ballgroups don't make lag, bad server does. What do you want them to do? Push buttons 5x less so it doesn't hurt the server?

AstroST

Loooree wrote: »

They're not playing the alliance war? 12 people keeping 30-40 enemies inside a keep is not playing the alliance war? Taking scrolls and farming 30-40 people following is not playing the alliance war?

Using scroll to farm people is not playing the map because plenty of time you will lose the scroll due to the timeout. In my very personal opinion is only toxic gameplay where a very organized group just want to farm pugs that don't know anything about pvp.

I know of a guild from another alliance that does it all the time and people from their own alliance just hate them becasue of this. Of course the ball group know that but they just don't care.

Loooree

AstroST wrote: »

Loooree wrote: »

They're not playing the alliance war? 12 people keeping 30-40 enemies inside a keep is not playing the alliance war? Taking scrolls and farming 30-40 people following is not playing the alliance war?

Using scroll to farm people is not playing the map because plenty of time you will lose the scroll due to the timeout. In my very personal opinion is only toxic gameplay where a very organized group just want to farm pugs that don't know anything about pvp.

I know of a guild from another alliance that does it all the time and people from their own alliance just hate them becasue of this. Of course the ball group know that but they just don't care.

So keeping all of those enemies for an hour does not matter AT ALL? It's impossible for the rest of the alliance to capture their keeps while they are being farmed by a ballgroup?

Hate them because of what? Because they refuse to play as YOU want?

xFocused

AstroST wrote: »

Loooree wrote: »

They're not playing the alliance war? 12 people keeping 30-40 enemies inside a keep is not playing the alliance war? Taking scrolls and farming 30-40 people following is not playing the alliance war?

Using scroll to farm people is not playing the map because plenty of time you will lose the scroll due to the timeout. In my very personal opinion is only toxic gameplay where a very organized group just want to farm pugs that don't know anything about pvp.

I know of a guild from another alliance that does it all the time and people from their own alliance just hate them becasue of this. Of course the ball group know that but they just don't care.

Our BG doesn't really farm scrolls because it's kinda useless. We try to play the map which is why we'll farm at a AD/DC home keep and pull majority of the server to us so EP can make moves, works pretty well. Reading these comments though is a little amusing, lol. Not going to go into details but with our comp, we don't run the sets most you think we do so idk what broken mechanics we use. We stay tight on crown, use comms and work as a team and it works out. We don't ignore other BG's either as mentioned above, we've fought BG's on both AD and DC respectively, just my 2 cents though

BetweenMidgets

AstroST wrote: »

You should try to understand better what a "broken mechanics" is.
No one is accusing ball groupers to use exploit or glitches.

A broken mechanic is a mechanic that alone change the balance of a game.
Let's just say that they introduce in chess a new piece that can capture all pieces around him with a single move, do you think that people that love chess would agree?

For PvP is the same thing, a lot of pvpers don't like mechanics that alone alllows of an entire playstyle to be overpowered.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in this entire thread.

Blaming ballgroups for ZoS' poor implementation of sets/skills/classes? I think it may be of value to re-evaluate what you're actually angry about, and direct that elsewhere. Hopefully speaking with your wallet (ie. closing it).

WaywardArgonian

Loooree wrote: »

Can you give a clip of such behaviour or name a guild who does that? Ball groups from different alliance teaming up just to farm.. zerg is not something that you see more than once a year lol. Teaming up to open the door is alright tho since siege is so broken and attacking anything is always annoying.

In Cyrodiil people often mistake opportunism for something more malicious.

If you just spent time and effort getting into a keep with your ballgroup, and then another ballgroup runs in, clashing with that other ballgroup instead of the faction-stacked zerg sieging you from every angle is far too risky. Instead you just allow the other ballgroup to run around as a distraction while you take on a big chunk of the zerg like you were planning to all along.

It's not so much teaming up as a temporary truce to first take on a more numerous enemy. Very basic stuff but still the source of many purple/green/orange alliance conspiracies.

AstroST

Loooree wrote: »

Hate them because of what? Because they refuse to play as YOU want?

They hate them because the ball group only seek their own personal gain ignoring the needs of the alliance
You know that having a scroll give the entire alliance some benefits?

And I said they (their alliance mates) hate them, I only found ball groupers just pathetic (this is my very personal opinion)

AstroST

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

Blaming ballgroups for ZoS' poor implementation of sets/skills/classes? I think it may be of value to re-evaluate what you're actually angry about, and direct that elsewhere. Hopefully speaking with your wallet (ie. closing it).

Well, I think that people that exploit broken things are the ones that are relly responsible.
I think that ZOS is doing a poor job on balancing and creating good mechanics but the real culprit, in my opinion, are the people that CHOOSE to base all of their gameplay on such broken things.

And the very sad thing is that such people only uses those broken mechanics to fight someone that have zero PvP knowledge and experience becasue real PvPers just don't wanna fight them.

And this makes me not angry but just a little sad because PvP could have been very good in ESO but right now is total trash.
Of course someone can say It's trash just for me, I imagine that running in circle on a keep spamming hots and aoe while being chased by a horde of pvers that don't even know to keep away can be the apex of pvp for someone.

Loooree

AstroST wrote: »

Loooree wrote: »

Hate them because of what? Because they refuse to play as YOU want?

They hate them because the ball group only seek their own personal gain ignoring the needs of the alliance
You know that having a scroll give the entire alliance some benefits?

And I said they (their alliance mates) hate them, I only found ball groupers just pathetic (this is my very personal opinion)

Yes I am aware you can get some 2% weapon damage bonus when you bring the scroll back xD Now why exactly should anyone care about the alliance? Especially a group that considers its primary goal to defeat as many opponents as possible? They focus enemies attention on themselves so everyone else can capture keeps. If server capacity is 100 people per alliance and ballgroup farming with scroll can make half of the server follow then explain to me how is that NOT playing for the campaign? Ballgroups benefit the entire alliance with their farming no matter if they want it or not. Not to mention the fact that usually (at least group that I play with) brings the scroll back. Why? Because if we didn't then people would simply stop coming and that means no longer having fun killing people. People avoid PvP in PvP areas so you need to force them to playing with you by taking objectives.

You can argue of course that nobody should be so strong, that ballgroups are immortal(untrue) or that it's just not fun for everyone else(just make your own group if it bothers you so much please). But if you really care about the campaign you should be really happy they are on your side.

Marcus684

Loooree wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

Loooree wrote: »

I want everyone complaining about HoT stacking to make their own group, get 12 vigors/12 RRs and try to survive more than 20 people + constant siege and then tell me this is so easy. The amount of effort it takes you need to put not only during the raid but also before the raid itself is huge.. or at least bigger than getting your solo setup ready.

Just make your own group please. It will be more fun for everyone around.
Oh and the fact that you don't see ball group vs ball group doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You just don't see it.

I've seen ball groups actively avoid each other way more than fight each other. Time and time again an AD or EP ball group will PvDoor Glade/Ray/Warden OFD and once they get inside and start on the IFD, a ball group from the other faction will run in and immediately head for a corner tower and just hang out there picking off DC trying to fight the PvDoor group. Sometimes they'll remain there until the end of the battle and fight to the last but most times once the siege is over, they'll jump off the walls and disappear.

While I'm sure it's fun for them and they get plenty of AP farming the solo DC trying to defend the keep, they're not playing the alliance war and all they're really doing is making the lag at these battles worse.

Can you give a clip of such behaviour or name a guild who does that? Ball groups from different alliance teaming up just to farm.. zerg is not something that you see more than once a year lol. Teaming up to open the door is alright tho since siege is so broken and attacking anything is always annoying.

They're not playing the alliance war? 12 people keeping 30-40 enemies inside a keep is not playing the alliance war? Taking scrolls and farming 30-40 people following is not playing the alliance war?

Ballgroups don't make lag, bad server does. What do you want them to do? Push buttons 5x less so it doesn't hurt the server?

No I don't have any clips of this and naming guilds here will undoubtedy get snipped for naming and shaming, but I'm not claiming the BGs are teaming up but instead doing it opportunistically. It really only happens when DC is pushed back to their trikeeps, so it's likely the 2 BGs were at the same keep coincidentally, but their actions are the same either way. The 2nd BG knows it's much easier to get kills and AP farming the mass of disorganzied defenders than the highly-tuned 1st BG sieging the door, so they take the easy road.

The point is that BGs seem much more interested these days in farming zergs rather than playing the map or engaging in a challenging fight versus another group, and most seem to go out of their way to avoid each other if they can.

And seige is broken? You're one of the few people I've seen in a long time claiming this. Experienced PvPers know that siege is laughably ineffective against anything except casual zergers, especially now that they've fixed the Elf Bane exploit.

Loooree

Marcus684 wrote: »

Loooree wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

Loooree wrote: »

I want everyone complaining about HoT stacking to make their own group, get 12 vigors/12 RRs and try to survive more than 20 people + constant siege and then tell me this is so easy. The amount of effort it takes you need to put not only during the raid but also before the raid itself is huge.. or at least bigger than getting your solo setup ready.

Just make your own group please. It will be more fun for everyone around.
Oh and the fact that you don't see ball group vs ball group doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You just don't see it.

I've seen ball groups actively avoid each other way more than fight each other. Time and time again an AD or EP ball group will PvDoor Glade/Ray/Warden OFD and once they get inside and start on the IFD, a ball group from the other faction will run in and immediately head for a corner tower and just hang out there picking off DC trying to fight the PvDoor group. Sometimes they'll remain there until the end of the battle and fight to the last but most times once the siege is over, they'll jump off the walls and disappear.

While I'm sure it's fun for them and they get plenty of AP farming the solo DC trying to defend the keep, they're not playing the alliance war and all they're really doing is making the lag at these battles worse.

Can you give a clip of such behaviour or name a guild who does that? Ball groups from different alliance teaming up just to farm.. zerg is not something that you see more than once a year lol. Teaming up to open the door is alright tho since siege is so broken and attacking anything is always annoying.

They're not playing the alliance war? 12 people keeping 30-40 enemies inside a keep is not playing the alliance war? Taking scrolls and farming 30-40 people following is not playing the alliance war?

Ballgroups don't make lag, bad server does. What do you want them to do? Push buttons 5x less so it doesn't hurt the server?

No I don't have any clips of this and naming guilds here will undoubtedy get snipped for naming and shaming, but I'm not claiming the BGs are teaming up but instead doing it opportunistically. It really only happens when DC is pushed back to their trikeeps, so it's likely the 2 BGs were at the same keep coincidentally, but their actions are the same either way. The 2nd BG knows it's much easier to get kills and AP farming the mass of disorganzied defenders than the highly-tuned 1st BG sieging the door, so they take the easy road.

The point is that BGs seem much more interested these days in farming zergs rather than playing the map or engaging in a challenging fight versus another group, and most seem to go out of their way to avoid each other if they can.

And seige is broken? You're one of the few people I've seen in a long time claiming this. Experienced PvPers know that siege is laughably ineffective against anything except casual zergers, especially now that they've fixed the Elf Bane exploit.

Most ballgroups.. I can't argue with that. You don't have any clips showing that, can't name any ballgroup doing it. Discussing it further makes no sense at all. I will tell you that my group will always engage enemy ballgroup whenever it's possible and you will tell me otherwise. But even if we say that ballgroups really avoid each other(I guess they thought Cyrodiil is a PvE area if they avoid other organised players) then.. do they play the game wrong? Is it bad? Maybe they want to make more AP, maybe their setup is not good enough to face another ballgroup, maybe they just don't feel like it, maybe in their minds it's more challenging to fight 40 random players than 12 good ones? Don't know. I thought ZOS wanted people to play the way they want, no?

Yes, siege is broken. It's the most effective tool you have against anybody. Whenever I placed a coldfire ballista or two or an oil as a defender I couldn't see zone chat anymore because my kill counter was constantly spamming messages about players dying. Even without elf bane exploit. It is the highest damage dealing tool that you can use while being almost 100% safe (at least as a defender), aoe damage and debuffs that stack. I'm not saying it should be removed or anything, some players would probably quit the game or Cyrodiil if they didn't have a top 1 damage tool at their disposal that requires no effort and no setup, but people need to admit it's just broken. Every zerg is able to kill organised group with few sieges and push at the right time.

Amottica

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Shut them all down. Probably the root of most performance issues, and their trial group approach to pvp ruins the experience for everyone else.

They are not the root of performance issues. The root causes is design. It’s a poor path to go to ignore the real problems.

Even then, it’s easy to run multiple squads side by side causing much of the same strains on the server. Especially since the test changes Zenimax made awhile back shower no improvement we would have noticed. Their reducing group size was stated to be due to liking the behavior changes that occurred.

Let look at fixing the actual problem.

xFocused

Amottica wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Shut them all down. Probably the root of most performance issues, and their trial group approach to pvp ruins the experience for everyone else.

They are not the root of performance issues. The root causes is design. It’s a poor path to go to ignore the real problems.

Even then, it’s easy to run multiple squads side by side causing much of the same strains on the server. Especially since the test changes Zenimax made awhile back shower no improvement we would have noticed. Their reducing group size was stated to be due to liking the behavior changes that occurred.

Let look at fixing the actual problem.

Spot on. It's easy to blame a 12 man ball group for causing lag and other problems but not the 40 plus man zerg taking a keep? BG's are the problem but yet when I'm solo running through a field because the game keeps me stuck in combat for some odd reason, lol. I get you don't like the way we play but BG's are not what is breaking the PvP side of this game. It's the fact they've openly admitted to running Cyrodiil on 2012 servers and barely make any attempt to fix the number of bugs in Cyrodiil. Stuck in combat bug, stuck on one bar bug, random blue screens and just getting kicked to the login screen, skills and sets not working as intended and the list goes on and on...

Rohamad_Ali

I don't know what the problem with ball groups is. You get inside the ball, they blow you up, no problem.

PenguinInACan

Sounds like the same argument that has been made for a decade.

ZOS does a thing - Players utilize said thing - that thing is actually really dumb and shouldn't have been introduced...

People who don't have the time/ability/resources/care to use said thing complain about the thing

People who have time/ability/resources/care to use said thing use the thing and say "well ZOS put it there so..."

Just play the game and if you don't want to fight a ball group then don't fight a ball group. This game was designed for organized PvP. There have been "ball groups" since this game was in beta. Just because the meta keeps shifting with more broken BS doesn't mean that the core gameplay of ESO PvP has changed. It's always been organized group vs. zerg.

Zerg vs zerg PvP is what kills server performance. It's why they reduced server pops how many times now? It's why they got rid of how many campaigns over the last 9 years? When the group cap was 24 were ball groups worse? Server performance issues are not a direct result of PvP meta groups. They have been trying for years to placate people by introducing classes/sets that have whole toolkits to fight outnumbered.

Everything has a counter in this game. It's not always numbers, and getting non organized players to react and fight an organized group is basically impossible...but that's the counter. That's why anybody can start groups, anybody can create a guild, anybody can share their knowledge about how to fight against a meta that is broken. Losing a fight and getting upset because you knew how to win that fight doesn't make anyone better. Teaching the ones that are asking in zone for help how to counter is what drives the PvP meta.

geonsocal

nobody wants to be a group leader now as it is...

well, except for madden that is (ps na)...

would anyone like to join a group

pretty spammed non stop...

anyways, one of the biggest challenges for some players in cyrodiil is not having the opportunity to "group up"...

they don't like playing solo...

i mean what - cut group sizes down to 6 or 8 group members?

leaves a lot of folks left without a chance to group...

need more sets that discourage the strength of that playstyle...

as a solo player - it is such a huge help to receive some random healing...a life saver often...

the first class i learned to recognize in pvp where templars...early on tried to make sure to stand by them during sieges...

i get it though - communication, movement speed, insane stacked healing and ultimate dumping is what makes ball groups ball groups...

trying to address the issue through pvp sets introduced hasn't seemed to really work yet...

TechMaybeHic

geonsocal wrote: »

nobody wants to be a group leader now as it is...

well, except for madden that is (ps na)...

would anyone like to join a group

pretty spammed non stop...

anyways, one of the biggest challenges for some players in cyrodiil is not having the opportunity to "group up"...

they don't like playing solo...

i mean what - cut group sizes down to 6 or 8 group members?

leaves a lot of folks left without a chance to group...

need more sets that discourage the strength of that playstyle...

as a solo player - it is such a huge help to receive some random healing...a life saver often...

the first class i learned to recognize in pvp where templars...early on tried to make sure to stand by them during sieges...

i get it though - communication, movement speed, insane stacked healing and ultimate dumping is what makes ball groups ball groups...

trying to address the issue through pvp sets introduced hasn't seemed to really work yet...

Groups I know, that ball groups and non-ball; do not pick up PUGs. A lot are guilds you join and they bring you in with some minimal requirements even if they are not ball groups, because things like PB, VD, and OO exist. Even then, teaching new players to survive and not kill the group is a long process.

Now, there are a lot less zerg herders. There are people who shout in zone wanting to be some kind of self proclaimed general; but ones that actually group players up and lead? Usually wind up being fodder for the groups, or over commit to stacking in one spot

Rogue_WolfESO

Ballgroup GvG fights are the stuff 👌

Zmeigo_Rinich

The easy way to remove ballgroups from Cyrodiil is to add a new debuff, decreasing received healing from other players when you are in a group (depending from a number of players in a group). If your group has 6 players you can recieve only 50% healing from other players. If your group has 12 players, you can recieve healing only from yourself. If you are playing without group you recieve full healing from nearest random players.

Loooree

Zmeigo_Rinich wrote: »

The easy way to remove ballgroups from Cyrodiil is to add a new debuff, decreasing received healing from other players when you are in a group (depending from a number of players in a group). If your group has 6 players you can recieve only 50% healing from other players. If your group has 12 players, you can recieve healing only from yourself. If you are playing without group you recieve full healing from nearest random players.

So you just want to remove healers from Cyrodiil? So there is no reason to play it? With your idea some sets like Spell power cure will become absolutely pointless at least in full group.

Also you want to make any organised group weaker and any ungrouped zerg stronger. Classic in eso community tbf I don't know if there is any other game around that hates organised teamplay so much.