Crossplay needs to be looked at more seriously for the health of ESO

Twohothardware

A lot of the big multi platform game titles releasing today have moved to being crossplay enabled including Call of Duty, Battlefield, Destiny, as well as the soon to release MMO's on console Throne and Liberty and New World Aeternum. Is this still being looked at for Elder Scrolls Online?

For me one of the biggest selling points of ESO has always been the PvP side but on Playstation numbers, especially during non peak hours, have really fallen off the last couple of years. The main Cyrodiil Campaign used to be full population on all three Alliances all throughout the day and now that only happens during a few hours prime time at night. The rest of the Campaigns are completely empty. I believe it's even worse on Xbox.

Having a large active player base improves the PvE aspects as well because with more players it's easier to find a group for any type of content you want to run regardless of your skill level. It also feels more like a social game when you enter well populated zones instead of zones where you're the only player there.

Have Zenimax made any official comments for or against crossplay in the future of ESO?

NeuroticPixels

Their guild stores would have to stay separate. Not enough locations for everyone on all platforms to get a trader kiosk. Plus the economy is very different PC vs console. They’d never beat PC on trader bids each week, and their items sell for cheaper on console (not near as much gold flowing around).

So, even with just those reasons, I highly doubt there will ever be crossplay.

Twohothardware

NeuroticPixels wrote: »

Their guild stores would have to stay separate. Not enough locations for everyone on all platforms to get a trader kiosk. Plus the economy is very different PC vs console. They’d never beat PC on trader bids each week, and their items sell for cheaper on console (not near as much gold flowing around).

So, even with just those reasons, I highly doubt there will ever be crossplay.

Why would the guild stores have to stay separate? They are continually adding more guild traders with each DLC release and right now the economy centers around mostly just the traders in the Alliance capitols. Spreading the larger guilds out to more zones wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion.

The market would take care of itself in terms of the price of items with the added competition. You would also be able to better police bots and guild trader shenanigans taking place when you have more eyes all on one platform.

igormaxbr03

Crosplay would only work with PS and xbox ,Pc have addons and some benefits console dont have also update/dlc and fixes goes there first ,also server wise is not very good still pop cap in cirodyl is low them when was on 2015-2016 still the game lag some times dont work very well ,hope this august update fix the game code and make some improvoments them we can talk about crosplay on xbox and ps for 2024

Twohothardware

It’s almost 7 pm CST on PS5 NA server and this is the population in the second to main campaign.

Stncold

Nah I actually like ESO being one of the few games now where I'm not forced to play with consolers. Whenever crossplay happens console players always get some sort of built-in aid like aim assist or whatever that gives them an advantage over mouse and keyboard. Knowing ZOS they'd do something like buff the damage their abilities do or remove the healing reduction from battle spirit for them.

Arrow312

Twohothardware wrote: »

For me one of the biggest selling points of ESO has always been the PvP side but on Playstation numbers, especially during non peak hours, have really fallen off the last couple of years. The main Cyrodiil Campaign used to be full population on all three Alliances all throughout the day and now that only happens during a few hours prime time at night. The rest of the Campaigns are completely empty. I believe it's even worse on Xbox.

X EU PvP is empty because we dont have new servers (Lags, delays...kill pvp), more and more switch or quit. Crossplay would be great maybe sometimes they but PS EU and X EU togehter.

jaws343

The moment I risked forced name changes due to database merges I'd be done with the game.

Cross play should never happen.

INM

Ask yourself whether ZoS can actually do that, considering all technical issues the game has.

colossalvoids

It will cause way more issues that it will solve so don't see it happening.

preevious

Also, PvP is already full of dramas over perceived advantages and disadventages on class, items, skills ...
..let's not add "he's advantaged by his add-ons ! Ban the add-ons !" to the list, shall we?

fizl101

If you want parity for the players either they all need access to add ons, or none do. As add ons aren't coming to console would PC be happy to give them up? I suspect not

LunaFlora

Stncold wrote: »

Nah I actually like ESO being one of the few games now where I'm not forced to play with consolers. Whenever crossplay happens console players always get some sort of built-in aid like aim assist or whatever that gives them an advantage over mouse and keyboard. Knowing ZOS they'd do something like buff the damage their abilities do or remove the healing reduction from battle spirit for them.

right now pc has advantages over consoles with add-ons. and we, all of us as the game is exactly the same without add-ons, already have aim assist though it's only for the Arcanist beams.

CameraBeardThePirate

Stncold wrote: »

Nah I actually like ESO being one of the few games now where I'm not forced to play with consolers. Whenever crossplay happens console players always get some sort of built-in aid like aim assist or whatever that gives them an advantage over mouse and keyboard. Knowing ZOS they'd do something like buff the damage their abilities do or remove the healing reduction from battle spirit for them.

This is a joke, right? You're aware that a significant portion of the PC population already plays with gamepad?

CameraBeardThePirate

preevious wrote: »

Also, PvP is already full of dramas over perceived advantages and disadventages on class, items, skills ...
..let's not add "he's advantaged by his add-ons ! Ban the add-ons !" to the list, shall we?

This already happens all the time on these forums

Overamera

Didn't they say it's pretty much impossible? I've also heard one of the reason they don't wanna do is because of the difference in economy. For me that's a bad reason for not wanting crossplay. Every single console player I've asked would die for crossplay even if it would mean the economy being ruined. Myself id rather be in a server full of players than in a dead server in the cost of ruining the economy.

Tandor

Overamera wrote: »

Didn't they say it's pretty much impossible? I've also heard one of the reason they don't wanna do is because of the difference in economy. For me that's a bad reason for not wanting crossplay. Every single console player I've asked would die for crossplay even if it would mean the economy being ruined. Myself id rather be in a server full of players than in a dead server in the cost of ruining the economy.

PvP on console servers may be dead in the sense of population, but PvP on PC servers is dead in the sense of server performance. Adding console players to the server load on PC would be disastrous, and not just for PvP.

Lebkuchen

LunaFlora wrote: »

right now pc has advantages over consoles with add-ons. and we, all of us as the game is exactly the same without add-ons, already have aim assist though it's only for the Arcanist beams.

On consoles the aim assist setting is well hidden all the way down in "accessibility" and came with the arcanist, but it's not just for the arcanist. If you move the slider all the way to the left, all your aim assist will be deactivated. It always bugged me that the camera slows down a bit every time the crosshairs pass over a target. It made me mad while other players i talked to never noticed this. Now we can finally turn it off. And for me that's one of the best things that have happened to this game in 2023.

I would love being able to play with xbox players on my playstation. But i don't want to play with PC players. They have addons and cheat engines and hardware that would make it unfair for console players. Some people play on consoles because they don't want to deal with all the PC stuff. Crap like cronus max is already ruining some of the console spirit. Multiboxing farm bots too. I think it's important for competitive games that everyone is playing under the same conditions, with the same hardware, software and rules. Consoles were always able to provide that. Not anymore i know, but it's still better than on PC.

Crossplay wouldn't have to be for all parts of the game. They could test it in Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds and Imperial City. With new campaigns, so people can decide if they want to play with other consoles or not. Maybe even give them new servers that are just for PvP. Dedicated PvP servers could maybe handle a much bigger population with better performance, while not affecting the PVE zones.

They could deactivate trading between platforms while testing in PvP. So the economy wouldn't be affected.

ZOS is really bad at dealing with name changes, but that wouldn't be a problem. Playstation names could be marked with a playstation sign, while xbox players could be marked with an xbox sign. So no name changes necessary. Easy.

And if it all works out, they could test it with dungeons and trials next, and after that they could still do it for the whole game. Combined with a big PvP DLC that could focus on the war. Because of the war there could be hyperinflation or maybe even a new currency. Then the economy specialists would get some new content too.

That's just what came to mind in 5-10 minutes. I am sure big teams of professionals would be able to find better ways to make this work. But from what i have heard in interviews, they are not even thinking about it a little bit. For the population of the game it would be great, and soon it might even be necessary to keep the game alive.

Maitsukas

Merging databases definitely causes the following 2 major issues:

• Shared character names
• Shared Guild names

How would you work around this?

Twohothardware

jaws343 wrote: »

The moment I risked forced name changes due to database merges I'd be done with the game.

Cross play should never happen.

I don’t know what capabilities they have with their current database but each player should be given a unique userID and then it doesn’t matter what your characters name is.

Twohothardware

Stncold wrote: »

Nah I actually like ESO being one of the few games now where I'm not forced to play with consolers. Whenever crossplay happens console players always get some sort of built-in aid like aim assist or whatever that gives them an advantage over mouse and keyboard. Knowing ZOS they'd do something like buff the damage their abilities do or remove the healing reduction from battle spirit for them.

Outside of PC addons there isn’t much difference between playing on keyboard vs controller as far as I’m aware. The Arcanist beam is the only skill where you really even have to track a player to use.

jaws343

Twohothardware wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The moment I risked forced name changes due to database merges I'd be done with the game.

Cross play should never happen.

I don’t know what capabilities they have with their current database but each player should be given a unique userID and then it doesn’t matter what your characters name is.

It's not just character names.

Xbox and PSN account names are also unique to their respective platforms. And they are identifiers for each of those ecosystems. So, who has to be forced into a Gamertag name change to not be a duplicate with the other platform. Some players have had their account names for 20+ years.

Trying to merge platforms and servers in a game like this is just asking to destroy it.

Twohothardware

Maitsukas wrote: »

Merging databases definitely causes the following 2 major issues:

• Shared character names
• Shared Guild names

How would you work around this?

Attach a unique userID to each player and all their characters names. I don’t know why character names are limited like they are to begin with. It’s like why is only one person on the server allowed to name their character “John Smith” when it could be “John Smith#userid1234” in the database.

Guild names would be different because you’d want them to be unique in-game.

valenwood_vegan

See the comment at the end of this post for the most recent thing I could find that ZoS has said on the subject.

(I realize server transfers and crossplay aren't *exactly* the same thing, but this would suggest to me that that any sort of database merge is not currently possible nor is it a priority for them).

Ingel_Riday

Twohothardware wrote: »

Maitsukas wrote: »

Merging databases definitely causes the following 2 major issues:

• Shared character names
• Shared Guild names

How would you work around this?

Attach a unique userID to each player and all their characters names. I don’t know why character names are limited like they are to begin with. It’s like why is only one person on the server allowed to name their character “John Smith” when it could be “John Smith#userid1234” in the database.

Guild names would be different because you’d want them to be unique in-game.

Just to chime in: that's pretty much what World of Warcraft did, more or less, and it worked there. My character was "Ingel Riday @Elune."

ESO could always do "Ingel Riday @ Ingel_Riday" or "Ingel Riday @ NA_PC". I guess it wouldn't look very pretty in-game, though. Kind of funny to picture "Ingel Riday @ NA_PC, Savior of Nirn" floating above my head.

CameraBeardThePirate

Tandor wrote: »

Overamera wrote: »

Didn't they say it's pretty much impossible? I've also heard one of the reason they don't wanna do is because of the difference in economy. For me that's a bad reason for not wanting crossplay. Every single console player I've asked would die for crossplay even if it would mean the economy being ruined. Myself id rather be in a server full of players than in a dead server in the cost of ruining the economy.

PvP on console servers may be dead in the sense of population, but PvP on PC servers is dead in the sense of server performance. Adding console players to the server load on PC would be disastrous, and not just for PvP.

Server performance is much better on PC; the reason PvP is dying is simply because it hasn't gotten any additions besides unfun set additions for about 4 years+

Twohothardware

jaws343 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The moment I risked forced name changes due to database merges I'd be done with the game.

Cross play should never happen.

I don’t know what capabilities they have with their current database but each player should be given a unique userID and then it doesn’t matter what your characters name is.

It's not just character names.

Xbox and PSN account names are also unique to their respective platforms. And they are identifiers for each of those ecosystems. So, who has to be forced into a Gamertag name change to not be a duplicate with the other platform. Some players have had their account names for 20+ years.

Trying to merge platforms and servers in a game like this is just asking to destroy it.

Crossplay is already a thing on multiple other big name games on console and noone had to change their gamertag. ESO should have a unique ID attached to each player on the backend.

jaws343

Twohothardware wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The moment I risked forced name changes due to database merges I'd be done with the game.

Cross play should never happen.

I don’t know what capabilities they have with their current database but each player should be given a unique userID and then it doesn’t matter what your characters name is.

It's not just character names.

Xbox and PSN account names are also unique to their respective platforms. And they are identifiers for each of those ecosystems. So, who has to be forced into a Gamertag name change to not be a duplicate with the other platform. Some players have had their account names for 20+ years.

Trying to merge platforms and servers in a game like this is just asking to destroy it.

Crossplay is already a thing on multiple other big name games on console and noone had to change their gamertag. ESO should have a unique ID attached to each player on the backend.

That's great for those games, that were all likely developed with crossplay in mind.

You know what this game is capable of doing? Adding a new quest to the game that functionally breaks all of your players questing progress and locks you out of content.

So, sorry, no. Crossplay and the complexity of adding it should come nowhere near this game.

Twohothardware

jaws343 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The moment I risked forced name changes due to database merges I'd be done with the game.

Cross play should never happen.

I don’t know what capabilities they have with their current database but each player should be given a unique userID and then it doesn’t matter what your characters name is.

It's not just character names.

Xbox and PSN account names are also unique to their respective platforms. And they are identifiers for each of those ecosystems. So, who has to be forced into a Gamertag name change to not be a duplicate with the other platform. Some players have had their account names for 20+ years.

Trying to merge platforms and servers in a game like this is just asking to destroy it.

Crossplay is already a thing on multiple other big name games on console and noone had to change their gamertag. ESO should have a unique ID attached to each player on the backend.

That's great for those games, that were all likely developed with crossplay in mind.

You know what this game is capable of doing? Adding a new quest to the game that functionally breaks all of your players questing progress and locks you out of content.

So, sorry, no. Crossplay and the complexity of adding it should come nowhere near this game.

Crossplay was just recently added to Destiny 2 and they’re using the same engine that Bungie developed Halo on back when they were still with Microsoft.

Amottica

The lack of addons on consoles is a sufficient reason as to why console players would be at a great disadvantage when facing PC players or joining in on PC raids. Console players, for the most part, would be relegated to second-class players.

To answer OP's question, I have not seen any comment that Zenimax has made concerning crossplay with consoles outside of the failed Stadia which actually ran on PC servers so it was not truly crossplay. However, given that they will not even consider transfers and the add-on advantage PC players have I doubt Zenimax has any interest in crossplay unless the game was in serious decline on all platforms.

Dagoth_Rac

We can't even get crossplay between PC-NA and PC-EU! The PTS has to flip back and forth between NA and EU, as well. And the addition of PC characters to XBOX/PS was when it launched and ZOS stated it was because the XBOX/PS databases were completely empty. There are clearly very serious database key conflict issues when attempting to integrate megaservers.

I doubt it has anything to do with names. It is more likely primary database keys. Like JoeSchmo on PC-NA is character id 8625689214 and character JaneSchmaan on PC-EU is also character id 8625689214. But then that character id is also referenced on thousands and thousands of other database tables, linking inventory and achievements and CP and skill morphs and houses and collectibles and wayshrines unlocked. And it likely cascades. Character 6535683 is under Account 4679467964 and Account 4679467964 owns a particular instance of Grand Psijic Villa 4998723758 and Furnishing 806575735798 is linked to that house 4998723758. And so on and so on.

So you would have to traverse entire tree of database keys and set them all to new numbers to avoid conflicts but do it without breaking any existing links or accidentally duplicating links. No one wants to go to their Grand Psijic Villa and find that their storage container they keep their gold gear in had a database key conflict, got lost in the shuffle, and is no longer attached to their instance of Grand Psijic Villa. Or the container database key got doubled up and attached to two different Grand Psijic Villas and some random player suddenly had all your gear in their storage chest.

WOW has something like 100 realms in the U.S.A. It was designed from the beginning that people might transfer to one of the other servers. The ESO megaserver technology was supposed to abstract this away. There might be 100 servers in the background, but it would all appear as 1 single megaserver and "travel to player" would essentially move you between different realms/servers/instances transparently. Because of this, I feel like ESO was not built with the concept of server transfers.

There are no licensing or addon issues stopping PC-NA and PC-EU from having crossplay, or XBox-NA and XBox-EU, or PS-NA and PS-EU, and yet we have never seen even a hint of it happening. Until we see transfers or crossplay between different regional servers of same platform, I cannot imagine transfers or crossplay between different platforms.