Undeath Passive for Vampire needs removed/changed

Zabagad · December 2023

I agree to most of your answers and i share your assessment to all points - except this one.

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Combat bug is generally accepted at this point and is a lower priority to several issues that are more in the face of all players. Also combat bug has workarounds which aren't that great but still they are there. So I wouldn't expect anything any time soon.

I don't believe that the bug has been accepted, but rather that we have given up over the years.
Also, there is no workaround because Alt+F4

or leaving Cyro (delve or sheo are practically the same) is not a "workaround", at least for me.
To implement an overlayed cancel mechanism should also be possible without going to deep into the code. (where the real solution should be implemented)

But - maybe we shouldn't discuss this deeper here and I hope you are right that they do something with vamp passives soon...

NuarBlack · January 2

Would changing undeath to being merely a death save with a CD be such a big problem? I feel like it fits thematically and would still be useful in both pve and pvp but much less abusable.

TankHealz2015 · January 2

Would you wear a mythic that:

While battle spirit active - vampires within 20m radius glow, deal +30% damage vs vampires but -10% damage vs everyone else.

xDeusEJRx · January 2

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Would you wear a mythic that:

While battle spirit active - vampires within 20m radius glow, deal +30% damage vs vampires but -10% damage vs everyone else.

That is pretty much like an upgraded version of Malacath band on launch. You get more damage on return than pre-nerf Malacath's 25% damage with no downsides if the enemy is a vampire, it only hurts more when they're non vamp, which isn't a lot of players.

So the short answer to this is, yes, people would use it, it would be more potential damage than original Malacath was, and honestly it'd be too OP seeing as original malacath was so OP it dominated the meta.

Panderbander · January 2

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Would you wear a mythic that:

While battle spirit active - vampires within 20m radius glow, deal +30% damage vs vampires but -10% damage vs everyone else.

Good idea except we keep trying to fix systemic design problems with sets and it only ever backfires.

Tyrant_Tim · January 2

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Would you wear a mythic that:

While battle spirit active - vampires within 20m radius glow, deal +30% damage vs vampires but -10% damage vs everyone else.

Yes! I would love a mythic like this.

Erickson9610 · January 2

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Would you wear a mythic that:

While battle spirit active - vampires within 20m radius glow, deal +30% damage vs vampires but -10% damage vs everyone else.

Conversely, would you wear a Mythic which grants you +30% damage taken reduction based on your missing health, but also decreases your health recovery, increases the cost of your active abilities, and increases your flame damage taken?

No, I don't think Mythics should be the answer to balancing combat in this game. At least, not when we're restricted to equipping only one Mythic at a time.

TankHealz2015 · January 3

Just like the idea of being able to specifically build towards an RP vampire hunter in cyrodiil....

Fighter guild skills don't seem adequate...

I also like the idea of undeath passive tied to how many vampire skills are slotted....10%. Per skill slotted.

ClowdyAllDay · January 3

i like this passive just how it is. keep your nerfing hands off it please.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · January 3

How about give them passive Major Protection and Passive Detection radius so it is harder to sneak up on a Vampire, might as well give a detection bonus to werewolves as well.

Panderbander · January 3

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

How about give them passive Major Protection and Passive Detection radius so it is harder to sneak up on a Vampire, might as well give a detection bonus to werewolves as well.

Werewolves having no detection bonus is dumb. Some great hunters they are with keen senses of hearing, sight, and smell in lore, and yet they're less effective than a random nord with magelight active.

olsborg · January 3

Undeath passive is contributing to this everlasting tankmeta and ppl arent dying. If youre a vamp and you fight small scale, youre gonna need to f up royaly to die.

Lystrad · January 9

If undeath were to be changed I think it would have to be part of a second vampire overhaul seeing as the first didn't fulfill the goal of making it so that people play vampires to be vampires and not for a single passive. The way I would suggest accomplishing this would be to start with the abilities.

Vampires have some abilities that are nice in a vacuum, but aren't really conducive to playing the curse as it's own entity. The main two I would suggest altering are Eviscerate and drain. I've always felt drain should have been the spammable. The primary identity of a vampire is draining health.

So
Basic Drain - functions like a ranged version of flurry
Morph 1 - gives the ability a bit of execute scaling, ramping starting at 50%
Morph 2 - Causes every second tick to pulse a blood nova around the target, dealing AoE damage and as flavor doing minor healing to any nearby allies that are vampires

Eviscerate - reworked to function as a delayed burst ability, Damage is multiplied based on the number of directly applied damage over time effects you have on the target at the time of detonation up to a maximum of 2.
Morph 1 - Increases the number of dots that can multiply the detonation to 3.
Morph 2 - Changes the ability into a self applied ability, storing a portion of damage taken and then releasing it around the vampire when the duration ends.

Now we get into the passives. So, we have our standard cost reduction for vampire abilities, but since we dont want to give other classes multiple delayed burst abilities and want to incentivize playing a vampire as a vampire we now have this.

Reduces cost of vampire abilities by -6%/-10%/-16%/-24%
Reduces the direct damage of class abilities by -6%/-12%/-18%/-24%
Reduces healing received from other players by -5%/-10%/-15%/-20%
Increases lifesteal by +0%/+7%/+14%/+21%
Flame damage taken increased by +5%/+8%/+13%/+20%

And then we come to the undead passive, which I would change by simply not making it a unique damage reduction but instead you gain different defensive major/minor buffs at different stages, in addition to the previous ones. So...

Stage 1 - Minor protection
Stage 2 - Major resolve
Stage 3 - Minor resolve
Stage 4 - Major protection

Araneae6537 · January 9

I don’t think vampirism should make our other abilities less effective, I don’t even think they should cost more.

Get rid of Undeath and the penalties to cost/sustain so that vampire is mostly flavor/cosmetic. Then no one feels the need to be a vampire for any meta.

Twohothardware · February 2

Where’s the change to the Undeath passive?

Red99 · February 23

And this passive is still untouched

ItsNotLiving · February 23

Just nuke the passive make it major protection while under 25% health. There is ZERO reason that everyone should be FORCED to play vampire and this passive is one of the biggest contributor to TTK being so out of hand duels are a 20 minute ordeal it’s PvP someone HAS to die.

katorga · February 23

Removing / nerfing undeath is a gigantic buff for two, maybe three classes.

It is a gigantic nerf for the others.

My NB doesn't need undeath (although I am a vampire for other, obvious synergies with the class), removing it from the other players makes me just that much more powerful.

My DK is tanky enough without undeath, and I am not currently a vampire on that class. So removing undeath is both a buff and a nerf. I'm more powerful against other players once they lose undeath, but if more players don't go vampire I get an indirect nerf because I lose the increased fire damage.

StarOfElyon · February 23

katorga wrote: »

Removing / nerfing undeath is a gigantic buff for two, maybe three classes.

It is a gigantic nerf for the others.

My NB doesn't need undeath (although I am a vampire for other, obvious synergies with the class), removing it from the other players makes me just that much more powerful.

My DK is tanky enough without undeath, and I am not currently a vampire on that class. So removing undeath is both a buff and a nerf. I'm more powerful against other players once they lose undeath, but if more players don't go vampire I get an indirect nerf because I lose the increased fire damage.

I know one thing, I could clinch more kills against night blades who get into execute without undeath. Some of them are so squishy that one dawnbreaker + Blastbones puts them in execute range.

mmtaniac · February 23

Jabs damage without undeath and major evasion not existed are heaven.

NuarBlack · February 24

katorga wrote: »

Removing / nerfing undeath is a gigantic buff for two, maybe three classes.

It is a gigantic nerf for the others.

My NB doesn't need undeath (although I am a vampire for other, obvious synergies with the class), removing it from the other players makes me just that much more powerful.

My DK is tanky enough without undeath, and I am not currently a vampire on that class. So removing undeath is both a buff and a nerf. I'm more powerful against other players once they lose undeath, but if more players don't go vampire I get an indirect nerf because I lose the increased fire damage.

You are forgetting that if undeath was nerfed or removed no one would be a vampire. It wouldn't be a buff to anyone. People are not vampires for any other reason except undeath in 99% of cases.

Plus you could just remove the fire damage and health recovery negatives along with getting rid of undeath.

moo_2021 · February 24

olsborg wrote: »

Undeath passive is contributing to this everlasting tankmeta and ppl arent dying. If youre a vamp and you fight small scale, youre gonna need to f up royaly to die.

I die all the time.

mmtaniac · February 24

This means abilities from vampire need complete rework. Peoples should take vampire for skills not passives, passives should be add but not must have.

Zabagad · February 25

mmtaniac wrote: »

This means abilities from vampire need complete rework. Peoples should take vampire for skills not passives, passives should be add but not must have.

That was their goal for the last Vamp rework

mmtaniac · February 26

Definitely something not work if people still take it only for passives. We need another vampire revorek and remove undeath.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · February 26

mmtaniac wrote: »

Definitely something not work if people still take it only for passives. We need another vampire revorek and remove undeath.

How about we keep undeath, the undead should be more resistant to being killed then the living.

sneakymitchell · February 27

I sometimes see no point in just being human. The werewolf skills is gimmick mainly. Not as powerful as before. Plus it’s stamina focus only so if you want to use a magical then it work cause 30% stamina boost. You lose out on main resource damage. Being a vampire you got options for both stamina and magicka.

Tigertron · February 27

You also cannot be healed by anyone but yourself. This will cause all kinds of problems in pve.

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

How would moving it to stage 4 affect anything? From what I understand, health recovery is pretty useless in PvP, and health recovery is already low enough at stage 3 for it to be insignificant. All I see this doing is adding an extra 7% damage for DKs due to the flame damage debuff, and allowing for an easier escape for players since they can just take advantage of unnatural movement.

Stage 4 would cause you to take an extra 7% flame damage and have another 4% increase cost in skills. But that may not be enough to balance Undeath as a passive. Right now it's just not balanced at all being that everyone takes it.

Yeah, and that 7% extra flame damage is going to buff DKs even further while putting every other class who uses vampire at a disadvantage. It will exacerbate the problem DKs already cause in PvP. The 4% increase cost would be insignificant.

I don't think undeath is the problem here. It's a good passive for survivability with the only draw back being you're forced to use it if you want to survive. Even having it on doesn't make you unkillable. I can still get instagibbed in seconds with it on. DKs and their magma armour morphs plus heal stacking is something that should actually be looked at.

techprince · February 27

The entire reason Mist form was changed because of huge damage reduction and yet the Undeath passive was untouched. 5% damage reduction per vamp ability slotted. Thats how it should be.

Remathilis · February 27

techprince wrote: »

The entire reason Mist form was changed because of huge damage reduction and yet the Undeath passive was untouched. 5% damage reduction per vamp ability slotted. Thats how it should be.

Remember, it was changed because you could taunt, mist into 75% mitigation, drop and repeat, at stage 1. Undeath is 30% at level 3. Problematic, but not to the same level.